Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5441557 times)

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ToxicAdam

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42060 on: August 21, 2019, 03:48:08 PM »
Quote
Roughly Half of Trump Voters Would At Least Partially Blame Him for a Recession
https://morningconsult.com/2019/08/21/roughly-half-of-trump-voters-would-at-least-partially-blame-him-for-a-recession/
 

This is never going to change. Where we all have this collective delusion that the President is some kind of grand engineer driving an economy? Where political discussion and discourse is wasted on using these arbitrary metrics as some kind of "proof" of anything.

I actually had a coworker (Republican) tell me that he thought Bill Clinton was a good president because he made a lot of money in the late 90's.

Fuck. It feels like being a sports fan in 1985 and using RBI's to determine who the best player in baseball is.


shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42061 on: August 21, 2019, 03:50:32 PM »
Said the millionaire!

:curious
"Finally, in times when the class struggle nears the decisive hour, the progress of dissolution going on within the ruling class, in fact within the whole range of old society, assumes such a violent, glaring character, that a small section of the ruling class cuts itself adrift, and joins the revolutionary class, the class that holds the future in its hands. Just as, therefore, at an earlier period, a section of the nobility went over to the bourgeoisie, so now a portion of the bourgeoisie goes over to the proletariat, and in particular, a portion of the bourgeois ideologists, who have raised themselves to the level of comprehending theoretically the historical movement as a whole."—Forums Poster Agrajag
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agrajag

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42062 on: August 21, 2019, 04:12:07 PM »
https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1163972607714242560

is it possible to preemptively invoke the 25th ammendment for a future president?



Mandark

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42065 on: August 21, 2019, 04:41:32 PM »
Very interesting ideology you have there, Ben

https://i.imgur.com/VrvoDgQ_d.jpg

I think the idea's meant to be that white supremacy isn't really a thing, and that's why they're drawn as ghosts? Same tack that Tucker Carlson takes, painting it as a moral panic. Except he draws a Pepe cause that's a phenomenon which exists and Garrison's aware of, so.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 08:33:26 PM by Mandark »

Nintex

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42066 on: August 21, 2019, 06:22:11 PM »
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VomKriege

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42068 on: August 21, 2019, 08:50:05 PM »
that's he greatest worst impersination of trump

Tripon

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agrajag

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shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42071 on: August 21, 2019, 09:55:49 PM »
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Tripon

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OnlyRegret

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42073 on: August 22, 2019, 12:20:08 AM »
don't let Matt "Groening for children" Groening hide his being tied to Epstein

also, hmmmmmmm
https://twitter.com/business/status/1163556815541592065

shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42074 on: August 22, 2019, 02:02:46 AM »
edit: if mandark says it's bad it's probably bad
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 03:50:09 AM by shosta »
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agrajag

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42075 on: August 22, 2019, 02:06:44 AM »
get em Stost

shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42076 on: August 22, 2019, 02:15:11 AM »
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OnlyRegret

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42077 on: August 22, 2019, 02:16:56 AM »
benzos post
something gonna die in the darkness alright

Mandark

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42078 on: August 22, 2019, 02:36:31 AM »
bad post, shosta

shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42079 on: August 22, 2019, 02:52:23 AM »
You could at least tell me why
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Oblivion

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42080 on: August 22, 2019, 03:38:06 AM »
don't do it mandark!

BIONIC

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42081 on: August 22, 2019, 03:47:28 AM »
ASPAB

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42082 on: August 22, 2019, 03:56:51 AM »
edit: if mandark says it's bad it's probably bad
:mueller
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Mandark

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« Reply #42083 on: August 22, 2019, 04:58:44 AM »
For those who missed it: WaPo ran a story on a part of Bernie Sanders new labor plan that addresses what would happen under M4a to unions who had negotiated health benefits, framing it as a response to concern from some union representatives.

From Sanders' site:

Quote from: The Workplace Democracy Plan
A fair transition to Medicare for All: Bernie will require that resulting healthcare savings from union-negotiated plans result in wage increases and additional benefits for workers during the transition to Medicare for All. When Medicare for All is signed into law, companies with union negotiated health care plans would be required to enter into new contract negotiations overseen by the National Labor Relations Board. Under this plan, all company savings that result from reduced health care contributions from Medicare for All will accrue equitably to workers in the form of increased wages or other benefits.  Furthermore, the plan will ensure that union-sponsored clinics and other providers are integrated within the Medicare for All system, and kept available for members. Unions will still be able to negotiate for and provide wrap-around services and other coverage not duplicative of the benefits established under Medicare for All.

shosta got all fired up and did an actual 2005-style fisking, taking the position that there had been no push back from unions and that Bernie hadn't changed anything, certainly not due to outside pressure.

I called it a bad post because the ambivalence of American labor unions towards single payer health care is pretty well established, not something they spun out of thin air to somehow make Bernie look bad. Unions lobbied against getting rid of the employer deduction for health insurance during the ACA negotiations (and before that targeted Ron Wyden for his plan), and municipal workers in New York opposed the single payer bill in that state for similar reasons, IIRC.

I don't even see the story as showing Bernie in a negative light. He's a politician with an ambitious plan and he's trying to get a key ally fully on board with it by addressing their specific concerns (and doing so in a way that seems fair and consistent with his message). That's good! But I think a lot of people are invested in a version of Bernie that... y'know, what Esch said a while back.

shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42084 on: August 22, 2019, 05:39:02 AM »
I like just about everyone running for president and am not invested in any messianic socialist cult :hmph

Ok fine, there's pushback. Maybe the best example is that the AFL-CIO president is against medicare for all. Personally, I feel like this mirrors 2016 where quite a few national organizations had endorsed Hillary during the primaries but Sanders was getting local chapters and the grassroots support. My speculation is that the national orgs are just really tied up in the whole political apparatus by history and necessity and so they have to get involved the way that they do. And that includes playing ball with the benefits canard.

Am I being conspiratorial? Probably. Look, I know I've made this clear already, but this specific argument drives me insane and I accuse all its proponents of being willfully disingenuous. Furthermore I still think the story had a bizarre and unjustifiable POV. It's journalistic mischief. And before you quip as much, no I did not just start reading the news, I know every narrative is arbitrary :maf
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 05:43:42 AM by shosta »
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Mandark

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42085 on: August 22, 2019, 06:06:56 AM »
Look, I know I've made this clear already, but this specific argument drives me insane and I accuse all its proponents of being willfully disingenuous.

A lot of people really believe something along those lines, and pretending they don't because you think they shouldn't is just setting yourself up to be surprisedpikachu.jpg down the road.

agrajag

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42086 on: August 22, 2019, 09:57:59 AM »
shosta the pushover

Nintex

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42087 on: August 22, 2019, 10:38:37 AM »
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thisismyusername

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42088 on: August 22, 2019, 10:56:56 AM »

kingv

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42089 on: August 22, 2019, 11:04:58 AM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164520903725723648

Go home and be a family man!

“I want negative interest rates but also a strong dollar and no inflation”

Republican economic ineptitude in a nutshell.

thisismyusername

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42090 on: August 22, 2019, 11:17:24 AM »

Tasty

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42091 on: August 22, 2019, 11:41:52 AM »

Ghoul

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42092 on: August 22, 2019, 11:44:17 AM »
I like how Yang's whole thing is basically bribery.. I'm in.

kingv

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Re: this is how I used to post
« Reply #42093 on: August 22, 2019, 11:57:11 AM »
For those who missed it: WaPo ran a story on a part of Bernie Sanders new labor plan that addresses what would happen under M4a to unions who had negotiated health benefits, framing it as a response to concern from some union representatives.

From Sanders' site:

Quote from: The Workplace Democracy Plan
A fair transition to Medicare for All: Bernie will require that resulting healthcare savings from union-negotiated plans result in wage increases and additional benefits for workers during the transition to Medicare for All. When Medicare for All is signed into law, companies with union negotiated health care plans would be required to enter into new contract negotiations overseen by the National Labor Relations Board. Under this plan, all company savings that result from reduced health care contributions from Medicare for All will accrue equitably to workers in the form of increased wages or other benefits.  Furthermore, the plan will ensure that union-sponsored clinics and other providers are integrated within the Medicare for All system, and kept available for members. Unions will still be able to negotiate for and provide wrap-around services and other coverage not duplicative of the benefits established under Medicare for All.

shosta got all fired up and did an actual 2005-style fisking, taking the position that there had been no push back from unions and that Bernie hadn't changed anything, certainly not due to outside pressure.

I called it a bad post because the ambivalence of American labor unions towards single payer health care is pretty well established, not something they spun out of thin air to somehow make Bernie look bad. Unions lobbied against getting rid of the employer deduction for health insurance during the ACA negotiations (and before that targeted Ron Wyden for his plan), and municipal workers in New York opposed the single payer bill in that state for similar reasons, IIRC.

I don't even see the story as showing Bernie in a negative light. He's a politician with an ambitious plan and he's trying to get a key ally fully on board with it by addressing their specific concerns (and doing so in a way that seems fair and consistent with his message). That's good! But I think a lot of people are invested in a version of Bernie that... y'know, what Esch said a while back.

Does anyone know the details of the average labor unions health care plan?

Are they really that good?

My insurance is theoretically better than average for employer insurance, but it still sucks a big fat donkey Hogg. The idea that I would want to keep that over opting into Medicare is just hard for me to fathom.

My premiums, deductibles, and OOP max would need to be cut at least in half before I would wring my hands about switching to Medicare.

Nintex

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ToxicAdam

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42095 on: August 22, 2019, 11:59:56 AM »

Does anyone know the details of the average labor unions health care plan?

Are they really that good?

My insurance is theoretically better than average for employer insurance, but it still sucks a big fat donkey Hogg. The idea that I would want to keep that over opting into Medicare is just hard for me to fathom.

My premiums, deductibles, and OOP max would need to be cut at least in half before I would wring my hands about switching to Medicare.

I can't speak for all health care plans, but my wife has a teacher's union plan and they've been scaling it back every contract so they don't get hit with the "Caddilac Tax" that's incoming soon. She pays more and gets less than she did 10 years ago. Deductibles have doubled, sometimes tripled, across the board.




kingv

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42096 on: August 22, 2019, 12:07:06 PM »
I think that is pretty typical for all plans.

I put in nearly  $400 a month for a $6K deductible and a $7k OOP max.

My wife has dual insurance because she is eligible for Medicare because of a disability. And you would be specially abled mentally to prefer my insurance over hers.

The OOP max are a lot lower, yes, but most importantly the negotiated rates for treatment are easily a fraction of my private insurance.

It’s very common for me to see a rate that goes to Blue Cross at $150 and then once Medicare gets their evil government claws on it, it gets knocked down to like $50 because that’s the Medicare negotiated rate.

Brehvolution

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42097 on: August 22, 2019, 01:00:23 PM »
My wife is a teacher and while the premium goes up some every contract we have never had a deductible in 20 years. There was a 2 year stretch where we had $10 co-pays, but for the most part we haven't had any. There is a $50 co-pay for emergency room visits that gets billed later. We've paid nothing at the pharmacy except the rare occurrence there isn't a generic. That price varies but it's maxed at $30 OOP per refill. It's a world better than what my employer offers.
©ZH

kingv

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42098 on: August 22, 2019, 01:58:05 PM »
Ah yeah, that is pretty good.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42099 on: August 22, 2019, 02:44:20 PM »
Personally, I feel like this mirrors 2016 where

Analyzing everything (or anything :doge) through the lens of 2016 is dumb dumb behavior. Sorta like in the last season of GoT where a vast, immersive world turned into two cities separated by a 30 minute walking distance.

BTW I wonder what the reaction from the Sanders camp would be if another candidate tweaked their own healthcare policy to address the concerns of the special interest establishment democrat machine unions.
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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42100 on: August 22, 2019, 02:49:09 PM »
 ::)
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agrajag

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42102 on: August 22, 2019, 04:17:40 PM »
At least they're consistent with their thoughts and prayers when people are dying.

benjipwns

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42103 on: August 22, 2019, 04:27:36 PM »
The president has been amassing a 2020 war chest ever since he entered the White House and has the clear financial advantage over his potential Democratic rivals because he doesn’t have to compete in a primary.
Bill Weld erasure :wag

As Democrats leave, the other parties try to pick up the slack:
CHICAGO — Joe Walsh, the flame-throwing conservative radio show host and former Illinois congressman, is moving toward challenging President Donald Trump in a Republican primary, calling the president an “unfit divider in chief” and claiming the party is craving an alternative.

Walsh told POLITICO on Wednesday he is confident he could secure the resources and support to mount a challenge against the president, and that if he ran, he would announce in short order. While Walsh would not confirm he would enter the primary, two sources who spoke to him said he was privately confirming he would announce his presidential bid this weekend.

“If I’m to do it, it’s going to happen soon,” Walsh told POLITICO on Wednesday. “I’ve been really surprised by the amount of anxiousness from people across the spectrum who want this president to have a challenge, because there’s just a real concern that he’s absolutely unfit.”
But Chafee is entertaining the idea that a new election cycle—and a new party—could be kinder to his White House hopes. Reached by The Daily Beast on Wednesday, the former Republican, former Democrat, and former independent confirmed that he’s open to running again in 2020—as a Libertarian.

"I'm very motivated as an anti-war American, and also by the deficit,” said Chafee in an interview. “Those are two big issues that, if the Libertarian convention next summer thinks that someone with a long record on those issues... if I fit that, then yes, I'd be open to that."

A member of one of New England’s most prominent political families, Chafee recently left his home state and moved to Wyoming, citing his family’s love of the outdoors. Upon arrival, he switched his official party registration to Libertarian, marking his fourth different party affiliation in his political career.

Joe Molotov

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42104 on: August 22, 2019, 04:52:29 PM »
©@©™

Trent Dole

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Hi


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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42108 on: August 22, 2019, 09:02:35 PM »
Tulsi is like a less hot version of Obama in 2008.

Tripon

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42109 on: August 22, 2019, 09:24:58 PM »
Sam Seder's guest today is Dale Beran who is trying to argue that Something Awful created somehow the election of Donald Trump.

Uh... not feeling this interview.

Rufus

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42110 on: August 22, 2019, 09:27:41 PM »
If he doesn't blame post-irony, I'm going to be disappointed.

benjipwns

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42111 on: August 22, 2019, 09:34:56 PM »
I saw something during the recent anniversary celebrations where a whole bunch of the GamerGate people on all sides can be traced back to early internet footprints as posters on a couple Something Awful forums.

And since we all know that GamerGate was the test run for the Russians and Trump.

agrajag

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42112 on: August 22, 2019, 09:41:15 PM »
Sam Seder's guest today is Dale Beran who is trying to argue that Something Awful created somehow the election of Donald Trump.

Uh... not feeling this interview.

I liked the"wtf is Gamergate, who cares about that," version of Sam from 6-8 months ago better

EightBitNate

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42113 on: August 22, 2019, 09:46:54 PM »


Liberals get triggered (reupload)

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42114 on: August 22, 2019, 09:53:57 PM »
Being a black Trump republican seems to be more lucrative than being a black anti-Obama republican circa 2009-2015.
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benjipwns

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42115 on: August 22, 2019, 10:02:45 PM »
There's a market glut.

Joe Molotov

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42116 on: August 22, 2019, 10:03:50 PM »
Being a black Trump republican seems to be more lucrative than being a black anti-Obama republican circa 2009-2015.

Just don’t forget about us when you have a prime time Fox News MSNBC show.
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shosta

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42117 on: August 22, 2019, 10:35:19 PM »
economics is politics and everyone here knows who larry summers is so on-topic

https://twitter.com/LHSummers/status/1164490345759092738

whole thread elicited an out-loud wow
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benjipwns

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42118 on: August 22, 2019, 10:39:34 PM »
referring to PD's entrance into Trump Republicanism as the "black hole problem" :wag

agrajag

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Re: Clinton Death List |OT| Epstein RIP
« Reply #42119 on: August 22, 2019, 10:51:45 PM »