Hypothetical scenario: what if America does enact a Muslim registry?

[Himu]

What next? Surely they'll come for Latinos, black people, and LGBT individuals after that? Given the history of America abusing power I don't think it'd turn out well. But let's say that they do make camps for minorities? What next? How would American's fight that if the military is commanded by the government and president? There wouldn't be much hope for allies either, assuming  European nations  to the very same rhetoric that has befallen America in mass numbers and they install far right governments.

What next? Would there be civil war? Would the military do a coup? What are your ideas and hypothetical scenarios?

[nudemacusers]

I don't foresee the military turning on the populace in that manner today. I know quite a few Muslim military members in fact; never mind minorities.  I feel a lot of this is bluster right now hard right wingnuts feeling themselves too much even tho trump spends his time now walking back 99% of what he said during the campaign.

Also keep in mind military officers don't swear allegiance to the president, just the constitution.

[Himu]

Right but the military typically takes an apolitical stance in favor of duty.

Trump has taken back comments but has installed racists to his cabinet that are floating the idea of a muslin registry. Saying this can't happen is wishful thinking right now considering the staff involved.

[Great Rumbler]

Even if it happened, and even with Ted Cruz on the Supreme Court, I don't see it holding up in the courts. If it somehow does hold up in the courts, I could see it being a major rallying point for Dems in 2018 and 2020.

But I don't see something that extreme happening, though. More likely that Trump and Congressional Republicans push through restrictions on immigration from Muslims countries, but mostly leave Muslims already here alone. Still, the fact that Trump just won the election shows how crazy things are, hope for the best but expect the worst and all that.

[benjipwns]

Every military member I've known would likely refuse a blatantly illegal order along these lines against citizens. It's a completely different scale from looking the other way during lower forms of abuse or against foreigners.

A registry isn't any kind of precusor for confiscation internment according to gun muslim control advocates anyway.

A religious registry would be an interesting court case from a hypothetical standpoint. I don't know if even Thomas would stick to upholding Korematsu. (Which I think he uses facetiously anyway.)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

He says pretending they don't already have all these lists.

[close]

[VomKriege]

Right but the military typically takes an apolitical stance in favor of duty.

It's a side point but it is important to understand it's not "typical", it is mandatory. It is an essential principle in any healthy nation.
Well before going to that, a "muslim registry" will first have to go through the political process and legal battles. The USA has a very robust network of well-funded civil rights lobbies that have already spoken up against this and will fight it every step of the way. The US population have always been fairly hostile of federal registration, a ton of fair-minded conservatives will stand up against that IMHO.

You're not yet in full Trump dystopia. This administration could and is already doing harm by even entertaining such ideas but unless dramatic events whip up people in a fury, I am optimistic it won't fall that far.

[Joe Molotov]

I'm sure I'm already registered somewhere.

CocksOfTheBore.com

[recursivelyenumerable]

my fear is that statistically there's almost certain to be a big terrorist attack or whatever at some point, and then shit could get super ugly super fast.

[Great Rumbler]

That's the one avenue where I think something like this actually comes to pass and doesn't immediately get swatted down, yeah.

[Madrun Badrun]

As long as its not a superhero registry I don't care. 

[Samson Manhug]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

[Joe Molotov]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

Self-reporting with self-deportation, that's why Trump is bringing in Romney.

[Madrun Badrun]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

By looking at them.  Won't be hard, since they will be the only ones with brown skin after all the Latinos are deported. 

[etiolate]

I'm sure I'm already registered somewhere.

Yeah, I feel like this data is already there. The question is if it's being used or who has it and is looking at it. There's people who have gotten through when you would think they'd be watched more carefully. (The Orlando shooter, the dude that ran into the Whitehouse.)

We are probably already in the middle ground on this due to acts passed years ago.

[nudemacusers]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

Modern video games log whether or not your characters eat pork.

[Boogie]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

By looking at them.  Won't be hard, since they will be the only ones with brown skin after all the Latinos are deported.

South Asians? 

[seagrams hotsauce]

I guess buy a couple hammers and reenact the hallway scene from oldboy in the halls of congress? Fuck I dunno, jesus christ this goddamn country has been worse and somehow more baffling and rage inducing than the last seasons of lost and twin peaks combined recently

[Madrun Badrun]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

By looking at them.  Won't be hard, since they will be the only ones with brown skin after all the Latinos are deported.

South Asians? 

Don't blow up planes

spoiler (click to show/hide)

No one remembers Air India Flight 182

[close]

[Boogie]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

By looking at them.  Won't be hard, since they will be the only ones with brown skin after all the Latinos are deported.

South Asians? 

Don't blow up planes

spoiler (click to show/hide)

No one remembers Air India Flight 182

[close]

I remember Air India Flight 182. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

  Okay, not remember, remember.  Just that the RCMP still gets shit for it in the media 30 years afterwards, so I'm aware of it.

[close]

[Samson Manhug]

How would a Muslim registry even work, logistically? Is it self reporting? How can you prove someone is a Muslim?

By looking at them.  Won't be hard, since they will be the only ones with brown skin after all the Latinos are deported.

South Asians? 

There's more South Asian Muslims than Arab ones (in the world, dunno about 'Merika.) And the US has Nation of Islam too. I just don't see how a registry is even possible unless it is done on the census.

[Yeti]

As long as its not a superhero registry I don't care.

What's going to happen is Muslims will end up splitting into two factions. You'll have the one faction that fights back against their oppression by using terrorism, and a second group that wants nothing more than Muslims and non-Muslims to live together in peace. This second group will denounce the terrorist actions of the first group, and work towards educating and enlightening non-Muslims that they have nothing to fear from Muslims.

They will be called the Brotherhood of Evil Muslims and the X-Muslims.

[brawndolicious]

A registry of sorts probably exists due to the NSA data dumping. But it's probably a tangled up web where Samson and I are the same degrees apart from a major terrorist. I'm sure I'm just being optimistic about my networking skills tho.

But the Director of the ADL saying he would register as a Muslim if any official registry was made was inspiring. Apparently it's becoming a thing among civil rights type of groups. I think it'll be something like the Bush-era NSEERS program which targeted Muslims (and NK) but didn't result in a single terrorism conviction.

[Himu]

I'm going to sign my name if this thing becomes real although I'm atheist.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'd support a registry of Muslims if we can also get a registry of white males. Both groups seem to be going ham on the terrorist tip lately.

[seagrams hotsauce]

For real though I doubt they'd ever actually enact a 'registry' when they can just use the massive surveillance program they have at their behest to target people for deportation/denial of entry to the country. I bet the dudes who came up with NSEERS are jerking off with glee at what kind of minority report type shit they can get pull off now

[chronovore]

my fear is that statistically there's almost certain to be a big terrorist attack or whatever at some point, and then shit could get super ugly super fast.

Particularly when you consider his so-far-named cabinet is filled with the clueless and fearful. SO not only are they likely to overreact, they're also likely to ignore anything they don't want to hear beforehand, much like GWB/Cheney/Rove leading up to 9/11 and Iraq II: Electric Boogaloo.

[VomKriege]

As usual though with the Trump campaign, what are we really speaking about here ? People entering the USA or US citizens ? The former, as pointed above, has already been done (and proved ineffective). The Trump campaign use of the Japanese-American internment (by Trump himself and by a surrogate recently) as a comparison is confusing and imply they're in fact thinking of extending it to US population.

[Samson Manhug]

Surely the latter if Muslims aren't going to be entering the USA.

[Himu]

I'm really worried about foreign policy and anti-terrorism methods. If they don't agree with how Obama fought Isis I can't imagine what they're going to do. It's going to be the second coming of Bush.

[VomKriege]

I'm really worried about foreign policy and anti-terrorism methods. If they don't agree with how Obama fought Isis I can't imagine what they're going to do. It's going to be the second coming of Bush.

Obama didn't exactly break from Bush II in a number of way vis a vis the use of force overseas. One of the defining moment of his tenure was a covert assassination in a sovereign nation without its consent...
Not to deny that Trump's understanding of warfare is pretty terrifying. On foreign policy, he is probably gonna discover that it takes 2 (or 180+) to tango.

[Faction]

I'm going to sign my name if this thing becomes real although I'm atheist.

My sister said she would too. I thought about it, but I'd have to really weigh the consequences of that since I have kids. It's frankly terrifying that we're even having this conversation honestly.

[Mandark]

There's more South Asian Muslims than Arab ones (in the world, dunno about 'Merika.) And the US has Nation of Islam too. I just don't see how a registry is even possible unless it is done on the census.

You seem to be talking about building and maintaining an accurate database.

But imagine the scenario where this actually becomes a policy, and what the really obvious political impulses behind it will be. I don't think they'd care about most type 1 errors. If you're a self-described agnostic with an Arab name, they're not going to give two shits about you staying on the list indefinitely.

[Samson Manhug]

That's what I don't get though. Would it be a list of people with Arab name? A list of people who go to mosque? Both?

[Mandark]

Probably both and more (signed up for other Islam-affiliated groups, parent or child of someone already on the list, etc).

To me it feels pretty simple once you conceptualize it as a list of suspected Muslims, rather than actual Muslims.

[Madrun Badrun]

Its not like such a list is meant to be actually useful.  Its just to calm the public's general anxiety when it comes to Muslims. 

[VomKriege]

Its not like the list is meant to be actually useful.  Its just to come the public's general anxiety when it comes to Muslims.

It will be useless but you can be sure it will be put to use if it comes to pass.

[Samson Manhug]

Thanks guys. The transition team was asking me for help and I think we’ve got it nailed down now.

[Cerveza mas fina]

werent you muslim himu?

[Mupepe]

werent you muslim himu?

You never stop being Muslim. You just go into a sleeper cell.

[Brehvolution]

I'd support a registry of Muslims if we can also get a registry of white males. Both groups seem to be going ham on the terrorist tip lately.

Isn't that the DMV?

[I'm a Puppy!]

I'm pretty sure it's not a question of "If".
The question is will the american public know about it or not? It'll be setup. Probably exposed after a few years. Conservatives will be like "eh, what can you do?" You'd have to be silly to think that a Trump admin will not use the NSA to do this under executive order.

[Himu]

werent you muslim himu?

For a short stint. I might be on some list somewhere as a Muslim.

[seagrams hotsauce]

I'm pretty sure it's not a question of "If".
The question is will the american public know about it or not? It'll be setup. Probably exposed after a few years. Conservatives will be like "eh, what can you do?" You'd have to be silly to think that a Trump admin will not use the NSA to do this under executive order.

Huh? If it's enacted, Trump would never keep that shit under wraps. That's kind of the whole point, right? It's a hugely impractical and difficult idea that already failed at the peak of post 9-11 anti Muslim sentiments borne out of political pandering. If he actually does it, it would be one of the few campaign promises he actually fulfills and I cannot imagine any scenario where he doesn't jump on twitter to jerk off about how great his perceived victory is.

[VomKriege]

That's true but I wouldn't rule out that agencies could either start to compile such a database before receiving a legal greenlight or that the public authorized registry might also have illegal discriminationary "secret" entries. The registry itself might be publicized but most of its content classified. All those things have happened fairly often in state agencies and large companies (black registry of opinion, beliefs, improper remarks on character).

[Great Rumbler]

I Like'd Al Jazeera on Facebook, so I'm probably on the list.

[Samson Manhug]

I imagine somewhere some junior FBI agent is asking his boss, "does Trump mean this list?" and getting slapped in the back of the head.

[VomKriege]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/nov/21/donald-trump-mike-pence-appointments-cabinet-candidates?page=with:block-5833467ce4b0e0ad2d75bce7#block-5833467ce4b0e0ad2d75bce7

An Associated Press photographer shot an image of Kobach going into the meeting and clutching a binder along with a stack of papers. One page is visible and readable, though partly obscured by Kobach’s hand.

The document is arranged in a numbered format. The first point reads, “Bar the Entry of Potential Terrorists.”

The document calls for updating and reintroducing the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System. The program was implemented in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, but largely suspended in 2011.

“All aliens from high-risk areas are tracked,” the document reads.

[Samson Manhug]

This 👏 is 👏 the 👏 guy 👏 who 👏 thought 👏 announcing 👏 Mosul 👏 op 👏 was 👏 a 👏 security 👏 risk

[Brehvolution]

It's as if trump had me fill out a list of shitlords who should never be in government and he went and picked every one of them for his team. 

[Samson Manhug]

Also, does his transition team really think that the current government doesn't "bar the entry of potential terrorists"?

[VomKriege]

Also, does his transition team really think that the current government doesn't "bar the entry of potential terrorists"?

Well... "Why won't he say radical islam, there's something going on !"

[I'm a Puppy!]

I'm pretty sure it's not a question of "If".
The question is will the american public know about it or not? It'll be setup. Probably exposed after a few years. Conservatives will be like "eh, what can you do?" You'd have to be silly to think that a Trump admin will not use the NSA to do this under executive order.

Huh? If it's enacted, Trump would never keep that shit under wraps. That's kind of the whole point, right? It's a hugely impractical and difficult idea that already failed at the peak of post 9-11 anti Muslim sentiments borne out of political pandering. If he actually does it, it would be one of the few campaign promises he actually fulfills and I cannot imagine any scenario where he doesn't jump on twitter to jerk off about how great his perceived victory is.

I can see him announcing a registry on immigrants coming in from certain countries. He'll get that through easily. What he wont announce is a full registry of muslims. That will be set up through a closed door agreement. When it gets outed he'll either say he did it for the national security, or he'll let someone take the fall Reagan style. I just don't see a scenario where a full on registry doesn't exist.

[Samson Manhug]

I can't shake this feeling that the extreme vetting document accidental leak wasn't accidental. I don't know how I feel about that. Time to put on tinfoil hait?

[chronovore]

I can't shake this feeling that the extreme vetting document accidental leak wasn't accidental. I don't know how I feel about that. Time to put on tinfoil hait?

Yeah, I have the same feeling. It's a photo-op. "Oh, what should we use as a prop?" "Try this!" - I have a hard time believing that they didn't do it intentionally.

[Himu]

I can't shake this feeling that the extreme vetting document accidental leak wasn't accidental. I don't know how I feel about that. Time to put on tinfoil hait?

It was on purpose. Remember this is a reality tv star. Much like how they leak the cabinet picks to see how the public reacts first, they're also throwing some policy ideas and purposely leaking them so people will talk about it. That's my take.

[Great Rumbler]

The Trump admin is already giving me a migraine and it's still a month and a half before the inauguration.

[Himu]

Your migraine must be a big one because it's two months, not a month and a half. then again you're a dog so..,