Jay-Z is the most overrated rapper

[Himu]

this thread just reconfirmed that Yeezy stans are the actual worst

Hmmm. Although I love some Kanye albums, I haven't really liked his albums much. He's on and off with me. I didn't really like Graduation, Yeezus was kind of wack. I wouldn't really call myself one of his stans. He kind of lost me a long time ago but I still put College Dropout on a high level.

[WanderingWind]

not sure why wanderingwind posted eminem's 'campaign speech' 

its actually every song by Immortal Technique, another fan fav of people who disrespect Jay

[Himu]

I don't like Immortal Technique at all.

[benjipwns]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam pharetra dolor quis ligula vulputate, sit amet iaculis mauris hendrerit. Nullam Yeezy lorem, scelerisque non molestie quis, sodales non libero. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Etiam porta sit amet mauris aliquet placerat. Ut ac libero nec quam hendrerit faucibus. Maecenas faucibus ex ac metus lacinia pulvinar a sit amet nunc. Integer et consequat ex, at maximus enim. Donec vel est non ex elementum suscipit. Praesent gravida luctus nibh, ut feugiat quam condimentum quis. Nulla facilisi. Phasellus sit amet neque nisi. Sed sollicitudin, ex hendrerit lacinia congue, nisi ante rutrum augue, vitae vestibulum nisi nulla sit amet tellus. Maecenas suscipit imperdiet laoreet. Aliquam interdum posuere neque et suscipit. Aliquam erat volutpat. Donec a lobortis overrated, vitae porta ante.

Ut sit amet tristique orci. Kanye sed sollicitudin nunc, non facilisis erat. Nunc rutrum pharetra nunc, vel vehicula tortor elementum ac. Suspendisse porttitor odio id dolor venenatis pulvinar. Sed interdum ipsum eu bibendum interdum. Vestibulum efficitur urna non eros tristique lobortis. Nunc consequat felis et mi imperdiet porttitor. Ut tempor nibh eu eros dignissim, eu mollis nunc fermentum. Ut nec lobortis odio. Etiam libero nunc, auctor vel fermentum ac, aliquet ut libero. Nam at nibh bibendum, auctor diam ac, auctor metus.

Morbi ac pulvinar lectus, in viverra est. Vestibulum ut purus vitae tellus pharetra tristique vitae quis urna. Morbi in pharetra ligula. Suspendisse placerat blandit nibh, sagittis blandit massa dapibus id. Vivamus a metus euismod, commodo dui viverra, pharetra ligula. Suspendisse sagittis tortor in dolor sodales feugiat. Nam vel dapibus nibh. Maecenas dignissim est a magna rutrum vehicula. Vivamus non justo quis eros malesuada porttitor. Vivamus nec rhoncus urna, rhoncus lobortis nulla. Nullam sit amet eros ac sem aliquet Yeezy. Donec auctor ut magna ut accumsan. Sed vestibulum tellus dui, sed rhoncus quam blandit faucibus. Phasellus vitae dignissim tellus, id feugiat elit.

Quisque eu accumsan magna. Fusce tempus fermentum placerat. Cras auctor convallis fermentum. Donec at euismod dolor. Vestibulum ac auctor lorem. Nullam ut libero vestibulum, feugiat tellus nec, porttitor turpis. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Vestibulum at lectus orci. Donec tincidunt ante arcu, ullamcorper malesuada risus consectetur et. Nulla leo turpis, tempus vel gravida nec, aliquam vitae leo. Suspendisse porttitor, dolor sed elementum mollis, quam risus sagittis tortor, a fermentum dui erat non enim.

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GTFO

[Himu]

Jay-Z fans are the worst TBH. They want you to idolize their master. I said plainly that I think RD is one of the best debut albums of all time. But apparently I "hate" Jay-z because I am critical of his output. Fuck y'all!

At least Kanye stans mostly keep to themselves.

Look at the receipts. The first person who mentioned Nas is a Jay-z stan. I didn't even mention the GAWD but it was just assumed. Al these years and they still ain't over it.

This dude actually said I have the taste of a white person when my GOAT made a song literally calling out coons.

The Jay-Z tactic: when you can't win, insult. At least Kanye fans have a surrogate father in Mr. west. Jay stans need morals. I feel sorry for y'all.

[Himu]

I've never seen beastie's on a GOAT list

[Mr. Nobody]

Doesn't like mobb deep, young Jeezy, jay z and no limit

Likes Jurassic 5



Mr. nobody is right you have the taste of a 14yo white guy in 2005

Now you throwing INSULTS because I don't like the same rappers you do. Jay-Z needs to teach his stans some manners.

My hip hop album of the year is Yes Lawd. Fuck you insulting me like this. My taste is fine! Almost all my favorite rappers are pro-black af. You mention I don't like no limit but I DO like Cash Money which I mentioned earlier. No Limit was trash outside of Silkk The Shocker. Everyone knows Cash Money was better.

 

You pick the rapper who is objectively the worst on No Limit to prop up? Silkk is fundamentally bad at rapping 

[Himu]

Doesn't like mobb deep, young Jeezy, jay z and no limit

Likes Jurassic 5



Mr. nobody is right you have the taste of a 14yo white guy in 2005

Now you throwing INSULTS because I don't like the same rappers you do. Jay-Z needs to teach his stans some manners.

My hip hop album of the year is Yes Lawd. Fuck you insulting me like this. My taste is fine! Almost all my favorite rappers are pro-black af. You mention I don't like no limit but I DO like Cash Money which I mentioned earlier. No Limit was trash outside of Silkk The Shocker. Everyone knows Cash Money was better.

 

You pick the rapper who is objectively the worst on No Limit to prop up? Silkk is fundamentally bad at rapping 

Oh shit, I forgot Mystikal was on No Limit. That nicca turned me into pudding back in the day. TBH I don't remember shit about No Limit except that they flooded the market, were worse than Cash Money, that Make Em Say Unh was a banger, and that Mystikal was tight af.

[Mr. Nobody]

Brehette, you're stringing us along, right? You're just having one big laugh over there, aren't you?

Calling Jay-Z overrated with a limited exposure to his music is one thing...but citing Silkk as the best rapper in No Limit? I cannot sanction this buffoonery. 

I actually liked his first 2 albums, but the man is just a straight up bad rapper. His flow is nonexistant more often than not.





I don't care how popular he was back then, you cannot tell me he was better than any other artist featured on these songs. This is a rare case of being beyond opinion, he's terrible at what he does.

[benjipwns]

have a soft spot for this

[benjipwns]

At the 45th Grammy Awards, it was nominated for Best Male Rap Solo Performance, but it lost to Nelly's "Hot in Herre"

mods help

[seagrams hotsauce]

*posts five times in a row* "you're umad"

[Himu]

This dude actually said I have the taste of a white person when my GOAT made a song literally calling coons.

If you were to make a list of White Hip Hop Fans favorite 5 rappers/acts circa 2016-19xx it'd look like this:

Eminem
2pac
Kanye West
Nas
Wu-Tang

My top 10

1. Nas
2. 2pac
3. Common
4. Tribe
5. OutKast
6. Run DMC
7. De La Soul
8. Queen Latifah
9. Blackstar
10. Kanye West

It's pretty safe, but I've found these artists to be pretty tried and true and consistent for my tastes.

My rap album of the decade is To Pimp A Butterfly. Runner ups are Yes Lawd! and We Got It From Here. My taste skews towards story telling.

Frankly mentioning race here isn't cute, especially since you are not black. I highly suggest you drop this subject now.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Lol @ threatening him for a flippant, very accurate joke

[benjipwns]

At the 45th Grammy Awards, it was nominated for Best Male Rap Solo Performance, but it lost to Nelly's "Hot in Herre"

mods help

Hot in Herre deserved it

I highly suggest you drop this subject now.

[Himu]

Calling Jay-Z overrated with a limited exposure to his music is one thing

Jay-z albums I have listened to:

Reasonable Doubt - great
Vol 1 - okay
Vol 2 - okay
Vol 3 - forgettable
Dynasty - meh
Blueprint - solid
Blueprint 2 - okay
Kingdom Come - meh
American Gangster - bad
Blueprint 3 - meh
Magna Carter - bad
Watch The Throne - okay

Quantify my "limited experience" to Jay-z. Because I haven't listened to Black Album? Please.

I believe I still own most of these in my cd collection.

As for Silkk, I don't remember anything about No Limit. They were dope at the time, but looking back they flooded the market with trash. I don't remember which trash. The fact that Master P is out of business says it all TBH.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Uh...

Wrong. I've listened to all his albums up to black album and nothing past that besides throne.

Jay Z stans emotional af

 

[Himu]

Define emotional.

I'm on the defense in this thread. I'm surrounded by IDOL worshippers. It is only right I defend myself against tyranny.

[Madrun Badrun]

Tribe wrote a song about how eggs are bad for you.  That's enough to knock them off any top 10 list. 

[seagrams hotsauce]

That was not the part of the quote I'm confused about

[Himu]

Tribe wrote a song about how eggs are bad for you.  That's enough to knock them off any top 10 list.

I'll be honest. I think Tribe has only three great lp's. I'm not a fan of later Tribe output, their latest release aside. But what's in Midnight Mauraders and Low End Theory just works for me.

[Himu]

That was not the part of the quote I'm confused about

Oh. I have listened to his other ones, but forgot. I'm old. I own up to Black Album.l and have listened to them multiple times. I streamed/pirated the others and found them so forgettable that I forgot I listened to them. I think Watch The Throne was the worst about this. I was really hyped for it and I thought it was a wet fart. Blueprint 3 was also ugh but nothing was worse than Magna Carter. I've been listening to Jay-Z's albums hoping he'd surprise me with some quality ever since Kingdom Come and I'm never impressed.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Nm, addressed

[Himu]

Explain the appeal of Mobb Deep. I have given The Infamous a shot a bunch of times and I'm just so indifferent so to it. I mean, it's okay. The production is the best thing about that album.

[seagrams hotsauce]

And this is where I exit the conversation

[Himu]

Did you actually listen to his music or did you just skim through it? By my estimation, he's got 2 certified classics in RD and TBA, a borderline classic in BP1, and what is probably the best singles catalogue in rap period.

And I say this as someone who thinks that: a) Illmatic is probably the best rap album ever; b)  sober discussion on either of the men's discographies has to acknowledge any rekindling of the beef for what it really is, posthoc navel gazing over something that neither of the original combatants actually cares about; and c) jay has a legit claim to be one of the best verse writers in rap, this last point has been obscured over the last 15 years because of both the poor output since his comeback and the narrative that pigeonholes him as the Big Daddy Kane to Nas' Rakim.

In short, yes, Eminem is the most overrated rapper.

RD is a classic. Never really "got" BP1. Never listened to TBA. Find the rest to be boring or filler. For his place in hip hop, I think he's overrated and I'd rather have Puffy over him.

Fuck off.

Unh

Now

What y'all wanna do
Wanna be ballers, shot callers, brawlers?
Who be dippin in the Benz with the spoilers
On the low from the Jake in the Taurus
Tryin to get my hands on some Grants like Horace

:trollbron

[Phoenix Dark]

I sense trolling but I'll enter the pool anyway.

Part of me wants to defend Himu because her views on hip hop are clearly coming a southern perspective, whereas most rap discussions tend to go back and forth between east or west coast fans. While there are plenty of people who are simply rap fans, overall many people's perspectives tend to slant towards a coast. There are artists who both sides fuck with (Snoop, Biggie, 2pac, etc) but for instance a west coast stan is going to have a completely different appreciation/love for Kurupt than an east coast stan.

Point being southern stans weren't heavily fucking with Nas or Hov in the early/mid 90s, whereas they fucked with 2pac and Biggie. Not saying Nas and Hov didn't have fans there, just saying that southern niccas talk about Andre 3k the way NY niccas talk about Nas and Hov. Even with Mobb Deep...just like east coast stans dismiss Three 6 Mafia, southern stans probably dismiss Mobb Deep. Despite the fact that they were both making dark ass rap shit at the same time.

I'm an east coast stan but I'm also a fan of rap shit in general. 90s east coast shit is my favorite stuff. Nas, Mobb Deep, Wu Tang, G Rap, etc. That's what I grew up listening to. Whereas the first Outkast album I heard was Speakerboxxx/Low Below. I didn't give a shit about the south back then. Hell I still don't give a shit about some of those slow motherfuckers but I digress...I'm trying to be Obama here and bridge the divide.

[nudemacusers]

Part of me wants to defend Himu because her views on hip hop are clearly coming a southern perspective, whereas most rap discussions tend to go back and forth between east or west coast fans.

Considering the thread, there might be a reason for that. 

[nudemacusers]

Dooms disco is like 80% 💩

But he has some hot moments. So it's all good.

[Himu]

Some are trolls. The puffy thing is a troll.

But what I said in the big post was true. I didn't know a single person who fucked with Nas back then until the Jay z beef. We were all about OutKast, No Limit, Cash Money, Scarface, Geto Boys. Some Lil Keke. Lil Troy. The Tootsie Roll! To the left, to the left, to the right, to the right! Let me see you do the tootsie roll! That and west coast g-funk.

I'm not saying Mobb Deep is bad, but I don't get it. UGK tho...

And yes, Andre3000 is royalty.

That was your first OutKast album? Oh my GOD. What else you listen to?

You wrong on Jay though. Jay was huge down here when Hard Knock Life came out.

[nudemacusers]

I was way late to the party but atliens was a dope record... slick stuff and good vibe.

[Phoenix Dark]

Southern rap fans like Jay-Z. He was one of the first NY rappers to actually shout the south out and give it dap instead of hating

Yea things changed in the late 90s. Even Nas did a track with Master P. Today I'd say Hov/Nas/etc are put on a pedestal by many fans across the country, but I was referring to the early and mid 90s moreso with my post. TBH I'm surprised Himu even likes Reasonable Doubt. How do you heavily cosign that but think The Infamous is whatever...

[Himu]

Southern rap fans like Jay-Z. He was one of the first NY rappers to actually shout the south out and give it dap instead of hating

Yea things changed in the late 90s. Even Nas did a track with Master P. Today I'd say Hov/Nas/etc are put on a pedestal by many fans across the country, but I was referring to the early and mid 90s moreso with my post. TBH I'm surprised Himu even likes Reasonable Doubt. How do you heavily cosign that but think The Infamous is whatever...

Idk. I like gritty rap but only SOME gritty rap and I'm very particular about it. It's not my preferred type of rap. I like some ideas on Infamous like Drink Away The Pain.

[nudemacusers]

Mob deep never clicked with me much either. Not sure why, had all the elements I was into, but on listen it just left me flat. A few of the tracks off infamous are great of course, it overall, eh.

[Himu]

Pac did give his buddies too much space in his songs.

[Himu]

Mob deep never clicked with me much either. Not sure why, had all the elements I was into, but on listen it just left me flat. A few of the tracks off infamous are great of course, it overall, eh.

Yeah, I don't know why it didn't click. It's not bad. The lyrics can be good especially if Prodigy has a lengthy verse and there's some good songs and the album has great ideas but something about it... You'd think I'd like it too given I tend to really like Queensbridge rappers.

Thinking about it, comparing Shook Ones to NY State of Mind I'll take NY State of Mind every time. When I listen to Nas I often imagine the visuals to the lyrics and it feels like a story playing out in my head. I don't get the same thing with Mobb Deep. NY State of Mind creates the life of early 90's NYC. Nas uses imagery. But Mobb Deep is mostly just about brutality and when they do use imagery it tends to be disgusting. Stuff like stabbing you in the brain with your nose bone just grosses me out and the sheer savagery of it just isn't appealing to me in the least. I prefer gritty hip hop that tells the reality of the situation. It's the reality that makes it gritty. The Message is what I'd consider gritty for example. But Mobb Deep is like, this is what we'll do to you and how we're gonna do it type gritty. It's like if Marlo and Snoop from The Wire made a hip hop album. It feels too cold to me. Which I assume is part of the appeal? I prefer 62 Pick ups type grit. Some of them NY rappers in the 90's too savage.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Eh, Return of the Mac, HNIC 2 and Albert Einstein were all solid. There was really no space commercially for what they did after 2003 or 2004 though. By the time G-Unit was signing groups like them and MOP the door had really closed on stuff that hardcore that wasn't adopting pop hooks and Korg Triton presets. Still a few gems from that era though, like P's verse here

[Phoenix Dark]

Prodigy was top 3 in 96

WHEW

[Phoenix Dark]

the most vicious diss track no one talks about

got raped on the Island

remember the vid of them riding around NY blasting this shit and laughing after Pac got shot

bourbon and rap brehs. have a good night

[tiesto]

Probably the only Jay-Z related tracks I got into:





I've found more Nas stuff I was into... I tried to mash up an acapella of "If I Ruled The World" with the Guardia Forest song from CT once Didn't really work out that well

[benjipwns]

Whereas the first Outkast album I heard was Speakerboxxx/Low Below.

[Himu]

Whereas the first Outkast album I heard was Speakerboxxx/Low Below.

Album is a classic and probably the best rap double album.

[benjipwns]

I mean more along the lines of how in the hell did he manage to avoid Stankonia.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

which is better too

[close]

[Himu]

Who knows.

Over here everyone was about OutKast from ATliens on.

Thinking about it, OutKast has the best discog in hip hop history. Every album is a classic. I may have to amend my top 10. OutKast is top three easy.

ATLiens > Stankonia

Cooler than a polar bears toenails, oh yeah there he go again, talkin that shit.

And then you've got Big Boi's Sir Lucious Leftfoot. OutKast may be the higher than top 3. I need to relisten to my faves to make sure. I had an OutKast obsession the other month where I listened to them for a month straight. Sometimes when I wake up I think,"I miss OutKast."

[Himu]

Listened to these mobb deep tracks posted on this page and 

Time to cleanse my ears.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Himu]

PD may on to that southern thing.

http://www.houstonpress.com/music/jay-z-americas-most-overrated-rapper-6575076

[seagrams hotsauce]

kanye>jay>nas

[seagrams hotsauce]

Not trolling. Ye is clearly the most consistent artist out of the three, single or album wise

[seagrams hotsauce]

By consistent I mean that his efforts album wise are, at worst, good*. I realize that's a matter of taste, and he's obviously not as good a rapper as Jay or Nas (I'd reverse the previous list ranking them by rapping ability) but he manages to pull off well-realized projects better than either of them. I will completely admit to being a stan, so I'm wearing rose tinted non-prescription wayfarers on this one, but I don't think that's too outlandish.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cruel Summer nonwithstanding

[close]

[Himu]

Nas > Kanye > Jay

but my most emotions are most tied to Kanye for making me a hip hop fan.

[Trent Dole]

I'd say 'Ye's more of a good storyteller than a great rapper if that makes sense.

[Phoenix Dark]

Album for album sure you could argue Kanye has a better/more consistent catalog than Nas and possibly Hov overall. But does Kanye have any albums better than Illmatic, It Was Written, Reasonable Doubt, The Blueprint, or The Black Album? No.

[Himu]

I found CD to be refreshing after crunk and 90's -00's gangsta rap. Comparing it to say, 50 Cent at the time, I thought it was a revelation. It was among the first hip hop I heard that was introspective beyond leanings of the hood. As a suburb black, I had almost zero connection with gangsta rap. When I growing up, it was okay but I preferred listening to TLC instead of Wu-Tang Clan and the rap I did connect with, like Queen Latifah, for the most part that kind of rap died out by the mid-90's and was pretty much replaced by gangsta rap across the board. Kanye's introspection was relatable in that it told the black experience outside of the traditional hood narrative. I related with rappers like Lupe Fiasco for similar reasons. It's not that I'm dismissive of the hood because I was very familiar with it. But musically, it never made me want to see what the genre had to offer besides what I watched on MTV Raps, Rap City, or 106 and Park. I had my favorites of course but I never branched out beyond that nor had the need to. As far as I was concerned rap was party music. It was what you danced to at a party.

Then this nicca comes out talking about his experience surviving a car crash and dealing with the plight of American consumerism to make ourselves feel better.

When Kanye lost me was when he traded the introspection for ego stroking. Which makes sense, he did marry a Kardashian after all.

I never thought Kanye could rap well but I never felt his rap ability mattered much as opposed to what he said.

Really helps that CD had a ton of great guest features that made it easy to expand my hip hop knowledge. To this day I still find gangsta rap mostly wack except for anything introspective southern flavor or G-funk but that's because I grew up on them.

[Himu]

Spaceship is a great pick. I connect with that song a lot. I listen to CD a lot when I do art. Spaceship is a song that fuels me for success.

[Himu]

Drive Slow always been kinda lame.

Kanye wasn't involved in Be too much to my recollection but could be wrong but the intro is one of the greatest things ever made in hip hop. You have a problem with the skits in CD and LR but they've always been a problem and complaint ever since they came out. They probably just didn't bother you then.

My favorite Kanye songs.



Lay-Z aside of course. This song is the song I identify with the most. It helps that my mom took me to a restaurant they weren't allowed to eat at during segregation. I relate to this song a lot. Jay-Z is lame as fuck.



























I really, REALLY liked Kanye at one point in my life. When I heard about his recent struggles I was really hurting for him. I hope he heals and comes back stronger. Kanye made me love hip hop and I'm not ashamed to admit that.

[Himu]

Jay has a verse on Never Let Me Down. Two in fact. It's the first song I commented on. Fuck Jay-Z for that and that is truly where my hate for Jay comes from. Never Let Me Down is my probably my favorite Kanye song and that fucking camel tries to ruin perfection but thankfully it's good enough to rise above his laziness.

Nicki's verse on Monster is amazing.

[Himu]

I am fucking TRIGGERED by that post aughhhhhh lalalalalala

[Himu]

>calls Jay-Z a lazy rapper
>writes paragraphs praising Kanye West, saying that his lack of rapping ability doesn't matter

classic himuro

I don't understand why that's confusing. It's no different from 2pac. Jay has flow, but his lyrics generally do not jive with me. Kanye's flow tends to be bad but his lyrics would connect with me. When I say Jay z is a lazy rapper, I'm talking about the whole package. Not just rap ability. It's the same thing with Common. Common is not the best rapper. Some of his songs would be better as poems than as songs. But if you give him the right beat, that nicca can cook. Rap ability is among the least important things for a rappers quality. Otherwise we'd listen to rappity rap rap shit.

Of the most important qualities of a rapper this is how I rate it:

1 is most important.

1. Message
2. Voice and intonation
3. Visual lyrics
4. Outward style (I.e. How they present themselves)
5. Production choice
6. Technical lyrics
7. Flow

Sometimes these qualities mix. Common will have a message while using using technical lyrics ("She know dairy so she say cheese to get bread"). Jay makes a lot of brag songs and lyrics but I've never heard him say anything as creative as Nas' "drank moet with Medusa gave her shotguns in hell with the spliff that I whiff and inhale". If you're gonna say you're all that, make it technical. Like the GOAT. Otherwise I will think you're just an egotistical busta looking fake bitch. Flow is probably the least important aspect of a rapper to me. At the same time, technical ability isn't the best either or otherwise I'd listen to Jadakiss - and I dont' listen to Jadakiss. But message will always trump anything else. Which is I like songs like Slim Thug's Chuuuch (what a bad song name).



Before I listened to Never Let Me Down, I actually liked Jay-Z. Listening to it changed my entire perception of him. He went into a song with a beautiful message and rapped about himself. I hadn't listened to RD by that point, but that song sealed my opinion of him and I've felt the same ever since. My conclusion was that he was a bum rapper. Even if I admit RD is a classic, my thoughts still go back to Never Let Me Down and I can never shake that perception of him. Message is important.

Again, I brought up this example before but compare NY State of Mind to Shook Ones.





Given my ranking in the importance of rap skills above, which song would I prefer? I'm a highly visual person. If I can hear your song and make the song come to life like a movie? You're on my A list. For that message, intonation, visuality, and production are the most important aspects.

For me, Kanye fits my preferred idea of a rapper. Jay doesn't.

[Himu]

Going by my own rap criteria, I think I might have to reconsider Nas as the GOAT. It's clearly OutKast.

[Trent Dole]

So Jay-Z is the FF of hip hop then. Long past their respective primes but people refuse to stfu about either of them.