Author Topic: SE Signs Deal That Will Waste Millions of Man Hours on Western Trash (SExMarvel)  (Read 5740 times)

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Nintex

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You know, it might not be such a bad idea for Square Enix to throw such rumors out there just to see who would bite or be interested in discussing the options.
XENO

kingv

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It's really kind of remarkable that the Avengers game was such a bomb. A well-made Avengers would fucking shit money.

Just make a really killer beat em up with a great campaign.

Of course... if you lose a $100 million selling 3 million copies.... you just have a bad business plan, IMO.

Nintex

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Without the likes of Anthem they would've probably pulled it off. But gamers are just weary of roadmaps now. Sony cut off its holiday season legs with Spider-Man too.

The only chance they have is a quick next gen patch early next year when PS5 / XSX games are in short supply and people tend to buy 'anything' for their new shiny consoles.

I think a Tomb Raider clone starring Black Widow for PS5/XSX launch would've been a much bigger success.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 05:57:36 AM by Nintex »
XENO

MMaRsu

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It has nothing to do with Anthem. Game is just shit. Fuck off with your live service sheit. Aint nobody got fucking time for that shit

Pissy F Benny

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Calm down jim Sterling :cenk

Lonewulfeus

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This forum has a bunch of neets, we got plenty of time for that shit :ufup

Great Rumbler

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This forum has a bunch of neets, we got plenty of time for that shit :ufup

:mjcry
dog

kingv

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Calm down jim Sterling :cenk

Jim Fucking Sterling son.

I remember in the days where I never had seen a Jim Sterling video but saw people talk about him so much

Then I watched one and realized he was the comic book guy from the Simpsons come to life.

Nintex

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I remember when Jim wrote shitty reviews to curb the metacritic average of popular and highly rated games and we dunked on him on the old place  :aah
XENO

chronovore

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Sterling is a self aggrandizing cur who subsists on diminishing the hard work of others. Making himself big by trying to make others small. If he internalized how this is similar to the bullying he almost certainly faced in his youth, he would have to stop doing it.

benjipwns

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Even games like Tomb Raider?  Seems suspect.
Tomb Raider has never performed at the levels that Square has projected it to. It sells well, like Deus Ex oddly enough, but disappoints because Square seems to think it should be a major ten million copies type franchise.

I know there's lots of doubling up large studio infrastructures in the same cities (Montreal, Shanghai, etc.) in an Ubisoft deal which might make people think the IPs are the target. This would not be strange in an Ubisoft case though because they've purchased large studios in the same city before to fold them into existing operations, this is the main reason they bought THQ Montreal for example. They mostly left the existing THQ IPs on the table during that auction. Square Enix Montreal would definitely be a target for this I would have to imagine.

Rahxephon91

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Are the Avenger's that popular outside of the movies?

Was making a game that looked like the dollar store version of the movie Avenger's primed to be a hit?

I'm not sure, but I think in general this project always had the wrong vision. At the end of the day people like these super-hero games because it allows them to partake in the stories of characters they are familiar with. Even when the rpg games of Ultimate Alliance or X-men Legends came out, the appeal was you were experiencing instead of reading the story. Batman, Spider-man, and so on are polished and well designed games, but also strong on cinematics, story, and just in general recreating the comic world. I don't think anyone was asking for a grindy Destiny like take.

I mean the game itself admits this when the loot has no visual change to the characters. I'm sure there's a license issue maybe, but also the simple fact that people want to see the characters as they are. When you are a kid you wanted the Batman action figure with the correct costume, not stupid deep sea diving Batman. Sure fans will want the variants, but they wont want them tarnished with the loot.

So if you are making a loot game and missing the huge aspect of loot which is the visual representation of progress, you've already failed.

People wanted a single player adventure that allowed them to experince and partake in Avenger's adventure. Probably one that is cinematic and whatnot because they want to partake in the movies they like. Since Avenger's is a team based thing, of course you'd want co-op.

That's what people wanted, but the game can't even give a half-assed version of that completely since the single player cinematic story is not co-op.

So what you have left is a game that offered a single player that is no doubt crippled by having to be training and share development resources for the Destiny portion. Which does not really jell well.

What people wanted was the Lego Marvel games, but not Lego.


bork

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Sterling is a self aggrandizing cur who subsists on diminishing the hard work of others. Making himself big by trying to make others small. If he internalized how this is similar to the bullying he almost certainly faced in his youth, he would have to stop doing it.

One of my biggest problems with him is how incredibly negative so many of his videos are- that's his thing, I know, but but do we really need multiple videos on what is essentially the same thing over and over again (with the same companies) on whatever move executives might have done now?  Him talking about this in character just makes it worse.

Are the Avenger's that popular outside of the movies?

They were always popular characters, but I think it's safe to say that Spider-Man and the X-Men are arguably much more popular, at least the latter used to be.  No idea how the younger crowd views the X-Men since Marvel made such a big push to remove them from as much as they could because of Fox holding the movie rights until recently.  Remember when they tried to push the Inhumans as X-Men replacements?  LOL.

Marvel did an amazing job of making the Avengers absolutely HUGE with their movies, but they have all their properties back.  Why are we still getting Avengers stuff when some of those character stories are seemingly over in their movie universe?  Stop trying to push c-list teams like the Eternals and get to the X-Men and Fantastic Four already.
:bolo
ど助平

benjipwns

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Phase Four got cut off because of COVID, they punted existing movies into what were "held" slots for something bigger. The Eternals was already in production and half-filmed when they got everything back so they're probably hoping it can be a surprise like Guardians. They have to reboot Black Panther now too, it had a 2022 slot.

Something like Galactus would be easy to tease in their existing properties and set up future ones as he moves towards Earth. Especially if they're scared about Fantastic Four going it alone, he's a big enough threat to justify a Fantastic Four/West Coast Second Tier Avengers team-up movie. Then you've cleared the deck of the existing actors, setup a new second tier of movies headlined by FF and made room for the biggest possible property to come in and single handedly re-march Disney to $10 Billion™: X-Men.

chronovore

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The Avengers was always a pretty reliable comic book, but not like the breakout popularity in the '80s with anything mutant-related. The X-Men went big, so they added additional titles each month, and it turned out to be a hobby that only dudes who could spend $3-4/book across multiple series each month for 26pp of entertainment. They went to specialty stores as main distribution, so the wire-racks in supermarkets and liquor stores with broader availability to families with kids was reduced. They ended up attenuating their own audience too much.

Anyway, I'm gonna go buy it for $30 and will report back.

tiesto

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Crazier things have leaked on 4chan and Squenix financials weren't great.

Marvel : Bombed
Tomb Raider : Successful but key players left the team, probably expensive af to do a next gen one
Deus Ex : Ran into the ground with dumb pre-order schemes
Just Cause : ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hitman : Went back to ioi

With that said, Ubisoft is in a heap of shit and restructuring also and just about managed to avoid a hostile buyout from Vivendi a little while ago.
My biggest question mark is if the price is so low Ubi can afford it or it has been in the works longer.

IMO, SE really didn't do a good job of trying to 'bridge the gap' between the type of gamers who would buy Squaresoft games sight unsound in the SNES/PS1 days and the Eidos titles. Like, there are some Eidos titles that have obvious resonance for the traditional SE fans - those who like adventure and story-based games - Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, and legacy Eidos products like Anachronox and Kain - but marketing wise, these feel in a separate world than FF/DQ/KH. I think SE should hold onto those but sell off stuff like Just Cause (I was gonna say Hitman too but it seems like they sold off this) which might not resonate as much with the core SE audience.

Also I know SE bought Eidos to diversify back in the PS3/early PS4 era when their Japanese teams were having development struggles, but now that FF14 had the biggest turnaround in gaming history after an unprecedented effort and FF15 finally got shit out like a constipated turd, they seem to have gotten a lot of their mojo back this gen. A healthy assortment of massive hits (FF/DQ/KH) and smaller, but still high quality, games (Nier Automata, Octopath, Trials of Mana, Bravely Default, DQ Builders).

Avengers as a single player, ~40 hour action/adventure RPG (i.e. Kingdom Hearts without the Nomura BS) would've probably been massive. But I feel the GAAS market is now getting overcrowded and it's tough to divert peoples' attention away from the big guns of GTA Online, Fortnite, Destiny, etc... kinda like what happened with MMOs in the post-WOW boom.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 03:41:45 PM by tiesto »
^_^

chronovore

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It's also clear that GaaS is seen as a recurring revenue stream, but sticking it on a full-price game, or even a discounted one, is poorly received by players. Oddly, when people pay for a game, they actually expect to have a full game of some sort. Gatekeeping portions of it is perceived as greed.

Fortnite offering the multiplayer portion of their game as a free option completely re-wrote their path. Destiny 2 going F2P is nuts to me, I'm curious if their model will sustain them. GTA is its own beast, as its always appeared able to dictate the path of the industry to follow in their wake (unless they launch on Nintendo, where even the best GTA of that generation still managed to die).

Tasty

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Should all this have been plainly clear to publisher execs after EA's Battlefront II debacle? :doge

How do you take amazing graphics tech and a juggernaut IP at the height of its powers, and flush it all down the space-toilet? Greed. More specifically, rampant and obvious greed.

I knew people would forget but didn't think this quickly. :trumps


chronovore

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Things the industry should have learned more quickly, and perhaps still hasn't learned:
  • Don't ask players to pay a retail price for a game, and then continue paying for it as an ongoing service; it's one or the other
  • DLC: Don't ask players to pay for the game, and then pay again for content that only they can see, e.g. singleplayer cosmetics
  • Don't ask players to pay for an additional "online pass," especially when they're already paying for Xbox Live Gold or Playstation Plus
  • Don't launch every franchise in the same sales window. Trying to put everything in the holiday time slot is like showing the premiere of a new TV to broadcast at the same time as the Superbowl
  • Don't announce anything other than the guaranteed feature set; entitled gamers will perceive any reduction in the promised set as something that was taken away from them
  • If a game is a runaway hit, there is almost no chance that 100 imitators will enjoy any degree of success*

* Yes, I know PUBG/Fortnite, but that's a matter of a disorganized indie fluke hit demonstrating a gameplay model, and a better financed behemoth striding in and eating their lunch. I'm thinking of how many RTS games game out after Warcraft, and how many half-assed FPS came out after Doom 2, and again after Quake... and most of them fell flat.

bork

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SE showing support with a HUGE NEW TOMB RAIDER GAME ANNOUNCEMENT!

spoiler (click to show/hide)


 :larry
[close]
ど助平

Sho Nuff

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SE showing support with a HUGE NEW TOMB RAIDER GAME ANNOUNCEMENT!

spoiler (click to show/hide)


 :larry
[close]

I love when they take the thing that everyone likes then they change the art so it's something that nobody likes, I want to see more of that

chronovore

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I was just thinking how it looked a lot like that Activision game from back in the day, when they turned it into a 3D action game, with a Bruce Campbell character. The one with the crocodiles. That TR trailer looks like that.

Edit: PITFALL, curse my fatigue-addled brain.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 01:50:44 AM by chronovore »

MMaRsu

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30 bucks now.

Still wayyy too much.

Great Rumbler

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Garbo artstyle
Clearly aimed towards a younger audience
Mobile

 :camby
dog

Joe Molotov

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GaaS
©@©™

kingv

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Finally a tomb raider game with art by the guys from Supercell

Lonewulfeus

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Just played the Kate Bishop campaign and really enjoyed it.  Took about 3 hours to get through the missions without really stopping to explore the levels.  Kate’s power set is pretty fun, but once I got shotgun arrows upgraded it was pretty much all I used.  It made bigger enemies like dreadbots, exos, and adaptoids just melt.  Her teleport powers definitely have potential but I preferred the bow aspect.  Very solid for free dlc.

Bebpo

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Nice, if they can just do that about another 9 times for the rest of the DLC characters (and in a reasonable time frame), it should help the lack of content.

Lonewulfeus

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Nice, if they can just do that about another 9 times for the rest of the DLC characters (and in a reasonable time frame), it should help the lack of content.

Yea hopefully they don’t cut their dlc plans short.  I’ve had my fun with it so if they do so be it, but I’d definitely like to play some other avengers for sure.  Most looking forward to Strange and Scarlet Witch of the leaked potential list.

Tycoon Padre

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https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1367505999595245579

Things are looking pretty good.

Wonder what the make-good is going to be #4theplayers when they inevitably kill this shit without giving them the free Speederman they were promised. Or maybe they'll just have to wait a few years to get their buck fifty from a false advertising class action :money

Bebpo

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Yeah, that's crazy.

At least it only changes xp after lvl.25 which from what I understand is the post-game GAAS part which sucks anyhow. Shouldn't effect the campaign at least.

chronovore

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https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1367505999595245579

Things are looking pretty good.

Wonder what the make-good is going to be #4theplayers when they inevitably kill this shit without giving them the free Speederman they were promised. Or maybe they'll just have to wait a few years to get their buck fifty from a false advertising class action :money

 :holeup

I really wonder what the thinking is there.
Then again, no-one launches a GaaS game without retroactively recognizing their model needs adjustment.

benjipwns

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March 18th huh, so get your leveling in before Zach Snyder's Justice League ends Marvel forever. :jeb

chronovore

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Lonewulfeus

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I did get Kate Bishop to level 50 incredibly fast.  She was pretty much 40 by the end of her short campaign and 50 in 3 missions after that.  I just figured they did that intentionally.

Bebpo

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Next-gen versions out now



Black Panther/Wakanda in the fall. Jack shit else this year otherwise...

 :salute Avengers


Yeah it's gone, SE ain't funding a big team for post-game content for a sales flop like this. Outside Spider-Man I wouldn't be surprised if this is it and maybe they'll try an Avengers 2 paid expansion with more heroes in a couple years.

Tasty

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I just read a big op-ed about how Kate Bishop and The Kree were gonna be this game's savior lol

Bebpo

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Some people are saying the wording of the press release makes it sound like it's gonna go F2P, I still doubt that would save it. They really fucked this one up.

Still, now that the next-gen version is out, looking forward to playing the Mrs. Marvel campaign.

Joe Molotov

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MMaRsu

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Dunno why anyone even bought this mediocre shit

Dont reward mediocrity

Bebpo

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Started playing this finally with the PS5 version. Got a few hours in.

Game looks...really good. Playing on the 60fps mode and the image quality is pristine. Looks like a legit next-gen title some of the time. I don't know how people lived with this at 30fps. I tried the 30fps mode and it felt like a really bad sluggish 30fps implementation.

The B-list Avengers surprisingly didn't bother me at all outside Black Widow's awful hair. The voices and the writing are pretty good and the character designs seem...fine? Coming from the comics it's kind of neat how this is pulling from a few different runs. Also trying to do a serious cinematic Modok origin story...well, I'll give them credit for that. Also interesting with the Inhumans stuff.

The Dual Sense is fantastic. Probably best use in a non-exclusive PS5 game. Really adds a lot of weight to hits as Cap (who actually felt good in the combat in the intro) and is solid for hits elsewhere and cutscene stuff.

As a brawler, it seems ok other than lacking hit impact, which is kind of a big deal. Also I hate the camera in this game but it's workable in combat arenas.

As a scripted scene platformer, exploration game though, yikes the camera is way too close and keeps fighting you constantly and the controls are really floaty and everything is scripted and it just feels incredibly awful to play.

Makes me wish the game was nothing but combat arenas and cutscenes. Though maybe just cutscenes would be even better :P

I'm enjoying the cutscenes/story stuff enough and it looks damn nice that I'm hooked and will blow through the campaign and the 2 DLC campaigns, but the gameplay does seem pretty shit. Like the Tomb Raider reboot games were really shallow too with scripted platforming but it worked as a cover shooter better. Idk, I don't like those games much either and they have the same floaty feeling.


Bebpo

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They probably should've just hired Platinum Games to do all the gameplay in cooperation with Crystal Dynamics doing all the graphics & cutscenes and writing.

Bebpo

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This Avengers game sure is weird. Got past the intro stuff and to the war table and "missions" and it's weird how it's like the story campaign but then it just suddenly ends at the end because MULTIPLAYER MISSION COMPLETE.

Also Ms. Marvel seems kinda shitty compared to the Hulk. And why are there base defense bits where you can barely move outside a small circle.

Weird game, feels like the whole campaign is going to be an extended tutorial. Mostly just enjoying the story. Feels like a Marvel TV show.

Also some of these missions are semi-open world areas...is there no map/radar at all?