What are some things you think that go against societal expectations?

[Himu]

So tell me: what's the hard line?

1. Science is great, but people who fetishize it are dangerous and the people who claim it's all you need to understand the world are sad as fuck. I'm actually quite pro-science. Science is how I'm allowed to transition and not shoot myself in the head, fuccboi. And you don't see me jacking it off. The hard stance in this case is: "I think scientists are lying and they can't be trusted. What about magnets, brehs?" or "Science is the only means for reliably understanding the world."

2. Feminism has done great, wonderful things. But it also has a record of not necessarily being looking out for the interests they advertise. Which to be fair, many groups don't. I've also criticized feminism harshly in the past for its record with women of color. But you won't know that because you're again, a fuccboi.

3. Abstinence is really the only new thing here on the table, and honestly, I'm just sick and fucking tired of giving my body up for some fuck ass to leave me. I'm also sick and tired of participating in a hedonistic culture that expects that I put out and fuck you for saying that I'm taking a "hard line" on this because it's my "new thing".

I have certainly expressed extreme things in the past. I've said things like "fuck white people", but what I framed this thread is hardly extreme. You just disagree with it. You have been nothing but an ass and disrespectful in a thread that was written in a respectful manner.

[Himu]

Hard lines, brehs.

https://sites.nd.edu/origins-natures-futures/2017/02/16/giant-microbes-the-fetishism-of-science-and-a-virtuous-habit-of-caution/

You can clearly tell who fetishizes science. It's pretty easy to see. Any criticism towards science worship "culture" means that you are criticizing science itself. You've insulted their religion. It's really easy to tell going by how they respond.

Clearly out of the mind of a young earth creationist:

It is common on Reddit when in debate, to see Redditors dip into what I like to call the 'scientific style'. When describing women's behaviour, for example, they go into (unfounded) talk about how evolution brought about the outcome. This is, of course, common pseudoscience, but I would propose that they are trying to imitate people who do science in order to add to the 'correctness' of their arguments. They can also be agitated is you propose a contrary theory, as if you do not see the 'logic and reason' of their arguments. Make note of this for the next section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/xoafm/the_cult_of_reason_on_the_fetishization_of_the/

another young earth creationist:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/oncampus/blog/entry/for_people_who_love_science/

I forgot the name of that one comic that jacks off science all the time. fucking blows specifically for its science fetishism. You can tell that the author masturbates into a beaker. Much like Seagrams.

[Phoenix Dark]

ah perhaps this will be an interesting thread let me se -

1. Feminism. I support women and women's rights. But feminism is also double edge. For example, instead of women's virginity being placed on a pedastal, now women are expected to put out.

[etiolate]

My stance: religion can be bad, science can be bad; religion can be good, science can be good.

I'd say religion can be good for an individual with their place in life, but any sort of wide spread belief is ultimately damaging. Science, on the other hand, is a process that doesn't hide the fact that it is and is a lot more transparent in it's conclusions, while also done to push humanity forward.

Any attempt to conflate the two or merge them is doomed to fail. As all religion can be is an aid for a person's fear of death or the giant universe they're in; it's old laws to make people feel better at best and act horribly at worst. Science, no matter what, is a collection of facts as we know them, not what we want to believe out of them.

I think religion on a large scale actually serves a purpose that is valuable. I have begun to think that functional human society absolutely requires the element of faith and that a healthy religion serves as a backbone to that interpersonal faith required to have society.  The idea is if you can have some little bit of faith in a God, an idea for which there can be no proof or direct access, then the continuous requests for faith in society become easier.

Currency is a form of faith. We can hoard it, but when the state falls its worthless. We believe it represents trade, but the only thing that backs up that trade is the continuous existence of the state. At the same time, its worth in trade continually devalues. A 1920 dollar bought a lot more than a 2017 dollar. Why should we have faith in that dollar bill when it seems to crawl its way to being worth less and less? So we have to have faith in the dollar, faith int he state. Our faith in the state has repeatedly been abused by the state, but we sort of know that we still have that faith in the state in order to function. We have faith in each other even though I imagine many people here have been betrayed over and over, meaning they have plenty of evidence to not trust human beings. However, if we couldn't have a sense of faith that humans can and will improve or that next time they'll do right then we would probably have chaos.

Religion also represents the big idea that there's something out there we can't truly know or the big idea that there's something beyond our current understanding. Science is then the search for those bigger ideas. You said science is a collection of facts, but that's not quite right. It's a collection of what we know so far.  I grew up believing in the Brontosaurus. Science class and kid science books taught me about them. But the Brontosaurus was a mistake. They put it together wrong and called it a different dinosaur. This wasn't even a new discovery. IT was old. The brontosaurus was outdated by the time I learned it. It was popular with kids, so they kept the falsehood around....

....and now there's evidence that there was a Brontosaurus, so opinion is changing. So fact isn't quite the right the term. You could argue that childhood faith in the dinosaur got someone to search it out and bring new knowledge to light.

[Himu]

As a group, religions are wonderful.

Religion gives community. In today's society of isolation, it's beautiful to go to mass and have community. It's arguable that America's division today is caused by its increasing secularism. When I was struggling with hating white peoole, I would ask people for advice. The atheists said things like,"it's okay to hate us, it's understandable" as if living in a hate filled existence is ok and helpful. The theists today me to forgive them so I could move on. Guess who was right?

A large amount (majority? Not going to make an ass of myswlf and assume here) of charities in the US are religious based. Most orphanages are religious based. Priests and nuns help the dying. While it's true you can offer help to people outside of religion, it's also true that by pure numbers, religious organizations offer the easiest access to charity. Go to a volunteer group and I bet you at least half are Christian. That says something.

Despite what many atheists say, human beings are in a way hard wired to respond to matters of religion and something more than the material. Religion offers an outlet for this in terms of theological expression.

In World War II, the Catholic Church saved millions of Jews lives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust But going by what Wrath said, it offers nothing.

Having a religion also requires hard time examining ones self. In modern individual society, which stresses emphasis on the individual above all else, this is valuable. I have a lot of flaws, many shown on this very page (have a problem with anger) and religion gives me reason to soften them. In today's society of "gotta get mine" we have breeder a society of selfish domination. Community doesn't matter. What matters most of all is me. Religion goes outside of this.

To say that religion offers nothing towards groups is an extreme opinion. But I don't blame wrath as he's in Saudi Arabia which is a theocracy and Islam in particular is a religion of law, not belief. And when your religion is ultimately just a list of rules....well.

Although I agree with the bulk of your post Etiolate, your definition of faith, at least theologically, and I hope this doesn't offend, is kind of simplistic. It renders faith as "all you gotta do is believe". Faith is not something that you just believe in. It's an ongoing relationship. Faith is actually really hard; it isn't easy.

And quite honestly the biggest case for religion is Bill Nye's My Sex Junk.



If there's anything this video teaches, it's that we need religion.

[Mandark]

In World War II, the Catholic Church saved millions of Jews lives.

Get the fuck out of here.

[Himu]

FOUND IT!

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/breaking-faith/517785/?utm_source=atlfb

Essentially, at its core, America's church problem is why things are so divisive. That is the power of religion and why it is needed.

As an aside, I also found a great article I posted months ago which touches upon things I've talked about.

Problem With the March for Science

science worship

Another good one, although completely off topic.

https://blog.heartsupport.com/lets-stop-pretending-christianity-is-actually-relevant-okay-ade4c00dabcc

Religion is fascinating.

[Rufus]

The Himu rollercoaster is quite the ride.

[Himu]

I'll keep my opinions to myself then. Mupepe is absolutely right in that sharing an opinion on the Internet is distinguished mentally-challenged. I should be more like him.

[Himu]

No amount of "religion is good for community" is ever going to work on me, himu. I understand that you found jesus and it brings you peace and shit, but as a dude who lived most of his life in the worst example of it I see it as meaningless horseshit people peddle because they're that afraid of death and can't handle their own lack of importance to the universe.

That's just me, though.

I hope you'll grow on it and experience the fruit of religion. Have an open mind to it.

[Himu]

[Phoenix Dark]

Why should virginity be placed on a pedestal? You say you're a feminist which presumably means you support equality for women, so why hold women to an antiquated standard of morality that men created for them. A standard that no one applies to men, by the way. If a woman wants to be a virgin until marriage that is her decision. If a woman wants to explore HER sexuality...that is her decision. Neither is morally wrong. Do what the fuck you want.

Brehette you sounding like a conservative who doesn't get laid. Young people aren't getting married because they're fucking broke and have other things to do. How about we fix the economy and healthcare instead of complaining about Tinder.

[Himu]

Said nothing about placing virginity on a pedastal. I after all am not a virgin.

It's interesting that what you took from my posts is some binary party lines that only exists to divide. No, I am not conservative. Yes, we should fix healthcare, but that isn't an opinion that goes against societal expectations, it's mainstream. And for that reason has no place in this thread. But please go on, keep accusing of me being conservative and trying to fit me into a hole.

[etiolate]

I don't think you can even vacate religion from society.

Anytime a nation tries to be atheist or heavily agnostic, something religious-like takes up the empty space.

[Himu]

Anytime a nation tries to be atheist or heavily agnostic, something religious-like takes up the empty space.

The fruit of Mao

https://www.ft.com/content/a6d2a690-6545-11e4-91b1-00144feabdc0

[Phoenix Dark]

Said nothing about placing virginity on a pedastal. I after all am not a virgin.

It's interesting that what you took from my posts is some binary party lines that only exists to divide. No, I am not conservative. Yes, we should fix healthcare, but that isn't an opinion that goes against societal expectations, it's mainstream. And for that reason has no place in this thread. But please go on, keep accusing of me being conservative and trying to fit me into a hole.

your words:

"For example, instead of women's virginity being placed on a pedastal, now women are expected to put out."

I don't think it's unreasonable for me to take that to mean you hold weird views on womens' bodies and what they should/shouldn't do.

In terms of healthcare I don't mean that's not a mainstream view. I'm saying that people aren't getting married because costs are high/they have more important shit to do. Having a family is too expensive. Having sex is cheaper.

[Himu]

You read my words wrong. I'm not saying that because women are expected to put out that the only other recourse is that virginity should be placed on a pedestal. Essentially, back in the day, a man would deny a woman marriage if she weren't a virgin. Wrath has told me in SA, women have anal sex to avoid having vaginal intercourse. These days, it's expected for a woman to put out. If a woman said she's celibate until marriage, she would be dropped like a venomous snake. Feminism, which brags that its ideology has allowed men to get laid before marriage, essentially has lead to a situation where there's still no choice. Before the revolution it was, don't have sex before marriage. Now it's "if you don't have sex before marriage you're not finding a man." I know for a fact most of the men here on this site and elsewhere wouldn't date a woman who said she didn't want to have sex before marriage. Essentially, this isn't a choice and now pressures women who otherwise wouldn't want to have sex, to have sex. Because if you don't have sex, you're considered trash and thrown away.

Ergo, the only conclusion is: there is no choice. Feminism has allowed men to still be the gate keepers of who is worthy. Before it was virgins. Today it is women who aren't virgins. If feminisms goal to allow choice and women's freedom were true, more than one option would be viable.

I don't think you have properly considered the ramifications of being female and wanting to own your sexuality to the point where you want to lose your virginity until marriage (a respectful act) in modern society. You should really meditate on what I've written and stop reflexively pidgeonholing.

[etiolate]

I don't think you can even vacate religion from society.

Anytime a nation tries to be atheist or heavily agnostic, something religious-like takes up the empty space.

I find there's a big difference between a nation operating under religious laws and a religion existing within a nation. I don't mind mosques being around but I hate that everything has to close during prayer times and women have to cover up because some bearded dudes said so centuries ago.

Of course. You have to have healthy religion and contain/oust the unhealthy religion. Keep a Westboro Baptist Church or Wahhabism powerless. Leave the harmless, moderate faiths alone. This is also why people work against SJW stuff because I would categorize it as unhealthy religion seeking state power/influence.

[Himu]

Also, PD. For consideration, I've talked to many a woman who have told me and I quote: "I don't want to have sex with him before we marry but I'm afraid he'll leave me." "The second I tell a man I want to wait until marriage, they disappear. I'll never find a man." This is feminisms legacy. An ideology that said that they value women's right to choose. Clearly, there's much work to be done.

[Mandark]

Again, people had sex before marriage. A LOT. Society was just more punitive to some of the people who did it, which created a layer of secrecy which doesn't really benefit anyone (except I guess adulterers and rapists?).

People have the right to set their own boundaries and expectations, sexual and otherwise, for potential relationships, but I'd be very leery of someone saying they're being "forced" into something because a decision they made shrank their dating pool. There are absolutely people dating without sex and without the expectation of sex, for a variety of reasons that includes premarital celibacy, they're just a minority.

Likewise, someone practicing polyamory is going to have limited options. Or someone whose career involves extensive travelling. Or someone trying to date strictly within a specific ethnicity/religion/subculture.

It sucks and maybe feels unfair, but we can't expect social movements to get us dates.

[Himu]

Also, PD. For consideration, I've talked to many a woman who have told me and I quote: "I don't want to have sex with him before we marry but I'm afraid he'll leave me." "The second I tell a man I want to wait until marriage, they disappear. I'll never find a man." This is feminisms legacy. An ideology that said that they value women's right to choose. Clearly, there's much work to be done.

Oh, and the best part in all of this. Feminists like Devo would probably laugh at them for choosing this and think of them as stupid. "I got mine" rears its ugly head again.

[Mandark]

"Guys, don't put words into my mouths or shoehorn me into your preconceived notions! Please engage honestly with my ideas."

"Also Devo would probably call a virgin woman a prude, then karate chop her in the throat."

[Himu]

Also, PD. For consideration, I've talked to many a woman who have told me and I quote: "I don't want to have sex with him before we marry but I'm afraid he'll leave me." "The second I tell a man I want to wait until marriage, they disappear. I'll never find a man." This is feminisms legacy. An ideology that said that they value women's right to choose. Clearly, there's much work to be done.

Sounds less like feminism's fault and more like men's, to be honest.

It's not just this. It's other things like work. I have a friend who is a stay at home mother. People, especially feminists, laugh at demean her choice. Despite the fact that, again, feminism was all about giving women a choice.

That said, feminism is still a worthy cause. But again, lots of work to be done and certainly not the perfect feminist power bullshit that they like to spout. You even made a great example of this bullshit earlier by saying a woman who wears hijab cannot call herself a feminist. Are you one of the men who is the problem? Probably! Feminism dresses it up as choice, but in reality, the choice truly is the one that goes in feminisms direction. So if you choose to wear hijab, you're not a feminist because you have conflated wearing hijab with an exercise in merely surrendering to man's power.

Your posts taps into the mind set I have talked about regarding feminism.

[etiolate]

I think people have a choice on their own sexual activity. Abstinence is taboo, but I don't think its so taboo that women are coerced away from it.

[Mandark]

My mother was a stay-at-home mom and a feminist.

Some of the first actual feminist stuff I read was a series of blog posts about how domestic labor was undervalued by society.

I'm sure there are some people who identify as feminists who are shitty about that (it's a big group of people), but you're painting a pretty distorted picture right now. Would be nice if you were half as generous in your interpretation of feminists as you are to, say, the Catholic Church's behavior during the Holocaust.

[Himu]

We all have our blind spots and I never claimed to be perfect. I'll read up on the subject more later, Mandark.

I may have a distorted view of feminism, but it didn't come about in a vacuum.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/10/white-feminism-black-woman-womanism

[Himu]

Anyways, I'm surprised at some of the responses here. Stuff like "lol himu's new thing".

Have you ever experienced hate? Like, actual hate? I'm not talking about "I hate broccoli" but "every time I see a white person I get nervous and I hate them" kind of hate. How do you go about ridding yourself of that? I don't know. All I know is that I'm a sinner and a bad person.

The transition is natural.

[etiolate]

I think you might like Tolstoy's Confessions & Other Religious Writings.

[Himu]

Your racism brought you to leaving religion; my racism brought me to joining one.

Nuts.

I know I have a predisposition to extreme opinions so I clearly need something to ground to me. It's good you can do that without a guideline. I can't do it.

The last page shows why I need religion - I'm a giant flaming asshole.

[CatsCatsCats]

I really don't want to be that guy, but I'm a sinner and a bad person is the kind of thing I would have said that one week I was Christian after being brain washed at a youth group camp where they cornered me and made me cry because I didn't believe in Jesus

[Himu]

No one really brain washed me. I came to the conclusion myself before stepping in a church.

[Himu]

Etiolate, that Tolstoy sounds amazing and really relatable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B003TU1OHG/ref=mw_dp_cr

Is it a tribute to Augustine's Confessions?

[etiolate]

I don't remember if he references Augustine. It's a collection of works and essays. The Confession is itself a literary style that he's using.

It's been awhile since I read it, so I don't remember every subject in there but he goes over a lot of things and lays out his philosophy. The work was influential on Ghandi and MLK.

[Phoenix Dark]

People had a lot of sex outside of marriage "back in the day" too.

I think it's corny to restrict your sexual growth as a person based on religious texts, but then again my views on Abrahamic religions are well known. If you're doing it for personal reasons though more power to you.

Bringing up white feminism to defend yourself seems like goal post moving, when black feminists are just as sexually free. I have problems with "white feminism" as well, but that was not the focus of your post.

[Valkyrie]

As a born and raised Christian in a country of like 90% Christians, I kinda wanna say a few things, but this thread seems so toxic. Maybe I'll check back later.

[Himu]

People had a lot of sex outside of marriage "back in the day" too.

I think it's corny to restrict your sexual growth as a person based on religious texts, but then again my views on Abrahamic religions are well known. If you're doing it for personal reasons though more power to you.

Bringing up white feminism to defend yourself seems like goal post moving, when black feminists are just as sexually free. I have problems with "white feminism" as well, but that was not the focus of your post.

I did say feminism and not womanism. I didn't say black feminists at all. And yes, black feminists are sexually free as well. Either way, I think it's the right thing. I do think it's important for women to be able to choose. So you could still call me a feminist if you want to and I have no problem if other women want to have sex before marriage because that is their perogative. You may find it corny, but you ended up with erectioe dysfunction due to over use of porn, no? Maybe I'm just tired of the loss of intimacy because of our hedonistic society? I've said that's how I feel on it multiple times.

And I'm not naive enough to think people didn't have lots of sex outside of marriage before the sexual revolution. But it clearly mostly benefited men more than it did women. And today, it's the opposite. Sex before marriage is the norm and it still clearly benefits men more.

[etiolate]

As a born and raised Christian in a country of like 90% Christians, I kinda wanna say a few things, but this thread seems so toxic. Maybe I'll check back later.

Speak yo mind!

If you get heat, trust me I have statements that will trigger everyone and draw all the attention.

[Himu]

As a born and raised Christian in a country of like 90% Christians, I kinda wanna say a few things, but this thread seems so toxic. Maybe I'll check back later.

[Huff]

I, a catholic, personally saved the life of my jewish best friend while we were blackout stumbling back from bars. He tried to fall into the street and I pulled him back from traffic

[Huff]

Or maybe I tried to push him into the street? Its a pretty fuzzy memory

[Madrun Badrun]

Either way I bet you felt guilty and he needed therapy. 

[nudemacusers]

Cargo shorts should be illegal

[tiesto]

Liking bigger women seems to be that way, I've received a lot of flack for it in the past. 

[Madrun Badrun]

Liking bigger women seems to be that way, I've received a lot of flack for it in the past. 

is this a reply to the post above yours?  Cause that forbidden love should be like cargo pants.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

pocket flack *runs away

[close]

 

[TVC15]

Cargo shorts should be illegal

It’s not really sex if it doesn’t involve a tarp.

[nudemacusers]

That's why I keep a patent leather tarp under my bed

[benjipwns]

Have you ever experienced hate? Like, actual hate? I'm not talking about "I hate broccoli" but "every time I see a white person I get nervous and I hate them" kind of hate. How do you go about ridding yourself of that? I don't know.

Maybe this is why I'm so ignorant about everything but I can't for the life of me remember ever doing this. It sounds like putting in a lot of constantly exhausting effort to accomplish nothing.

[Mandark]

People generally don't feel strong emotions, especially upsetting ones, because they're making an effort, so yeah.

[benjipwns]

Like I noted it's probably a function of my gross worldly ignorance. But for me, maintaining an active and directed hate (or anger) would be something I would have to actively switch on and perpetually intentionally feed, not at all like other strong emotions, even highly upsetting ones, which require no effort or decision making regarding targets to maintain.

I could see hating someone specifically, but at least even that I'd find difficult to maintain at a level I'd consider "hate" without being proactive about keeping the level up.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Go jack off to science or whatever.

I think I'll go fuck someone I'm not married to instead, thanks

[Himu]

Have you ever experienced hate? Like, actual hate? I'm not talking about "I hate broccoli" but "every time I see a white person I get nervous and I hate them" kind of hate. How do you go about ridding yourself of that? I don't know.

Maybe this is why I'm so ignorant about everything but I can't for the life of me remember ever doing this. It sounds like putting in a lot of constantly exhausting effort to accomplish nothing.

It isn't something you expect and it's most certainly something you don't want. You feel it anyways.

Go jack off to science or whatever.

I think I'll go fuck someone I'm not married to instead, thanks

Enjoy the pregnancy scares, sti scares, emotional attachment with the possibility of relationship ending;etc. Whatever, I don't like you, you don't like me. It's settled.

[seagrams hotsauce]

I like you just fine. Sorry for being a jerk.

[benjipwns]

Scientists will sometimes do things for the research regardless of the harm. The creation of the atom bomb is a great example.

I think the people who made the atom bomb were pretty intent on creating something with hopefully highly destructive potential what with it being a bomb and all.

Others seemed to use the splitting of the atom in far less intentionally destructive ways. (Except to those atoms of course.)

[Himu]

I like you just fine. Sorry for being a jerk.

Sorry for being a bitch. Again, I'm a bad person. So I honestly don't blame you.

[Mandark]

The idea of someone being a good or bad person is mostly dumb.

(This serves as both a response to Himu's last post and the OT.)

[benjipwns]

the jews were the world's greatest evil, so in a way I was taught that as fact. I wasn't outwardly hateful and it was more views I held due to how casual the hatred was for the most part. But me giving up on it is mostly tied to growing up and realizing you're not always taught facts here, and it persisting was mostly what I've been told about Israel and propaganda relating to that.

oh no, (((they))) got to you

[seagrams hotsauce]

I like you just fine. Sorry for being a jerk.

Sorry for being a bitch. Again, I'm a bad person. So I honestly don't blame you.

You're really not. I just find a lot of what you're saying very frustrating. My brother is born again and that has lead to some difficult experiences in my family recently, so I have a hard time discussing the topic with aplomb

[benjipwns]

I may have also been making the mistake of thinking about hate as an active emotion vs. passive bigotry. The mention of comedy thing made me think about this because it made me recall like say people telling a racist joke, their bigotry may not raise to a level I'd consider "hate" and simply be a sort of "they're the out group" situation and I suppose that's how some people justify "the good ones" or whatever. Or heck, all the Amir0x jokes we've been piling up the last few days but I wouldn't inherently say I hate child porn possessors as a group necessarily. (Or even Amir0x, let alone fellow permanently banned member Dennis.)

I may also be entirely too forgiving of people either individually or collectively in this regard. I could probably rack up a list of other emotions or views (like sad maybe, I'm not sad, but the whole affair being sad), but maybe I'm just too hesitant of a dope to go for that active hate/anger route. I can't even be negative about someone going that route!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or chicken.

[close]

[TVC15]

I’m only here for the Amir0x jokes. I’m gone again once he’s in prison getting spit-roasted by Aryan Nations members. That's probably true for most of the increased traffic here.

[Himu]

I like you just fine. Sorry for being a jerk.

Sorry for being a bitch. Again, I'm a bad person. So I honestly don't blame you.

You're really not. I just find a lot of what you're saying very frustrating. My brother is born again and that has lead to some difficult experiences in my family recently, so I have a hard time discussing the topic with aplomb

I'm not born again, though. I can't stand Evangelicalism and to a larger extent, Protestanism in general, due to my experiences with the religion growing up. It tainted my view of Christianity for so long that I honestly don't blame you.