Author Topic: Maybe the real NeoGAF was the friends we made along the way...  (Read 2947450 times)

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I'm a Puppy!

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  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7080 on: October 22, 2017, 06:12:20 PM »
Theres a lot of modern gaf users here. What? Did a bunch of really young kids sign up or something?
que


Bravotyler

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7082 on: October 22, 2017, 06:12:45 PM »
I remember Aeana chasing off Tom from Xseed (he had a mini meltdown on his own, thought, years later) and I always wondered how much involved she was in culling gaming discussion in the forum.

There was a time when every XSEED-related thread would have Aeana and several other mods immediately rush it, it was a sad sight.

I remember back in late 2013 when Aeana and another mod (I think Seda?) started complaining in the Sonic Community thread that too many quality posters were leaving Gaming and OT and heading to the Community threads, and sometimes outright leaving the site entirely afterwards. They seemed to be aware of the declining quality of the forum, but apparently couldn't be damned to do anything about it rather than threaten users that were already becoming disillusioned with the site.

Rman

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7083 on: October 22, 2017, 06:12:48 PM »
How do you get on to the discord thing?

It’s basically a pretty IRC client, but it uses its own protocol, not IRC.  You can register and download it. You need invite links to specific “channels”.

OpinionatedCyborg

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7084 on: October 22, 2017, 06:13:19 PM »
New details in the kotaku article:

Quote
The mass exodus was spurred by a Facebook post last Tuesday by film director Ima Leupp. The post, a part of the millions-strong #MeToo phenomenon that has women speaking out about personal instances of sexual harassment, described a trip Leupp says she took with NeoGAF owner Tyler “Evilore” Malka two years ago. Although she originally did not name Malka, she later posted in the comments of her thread that interested parties should “google Evilore.” She said that while she and Malka, who was her friend, were drinking together in a New Orleans hotel room in April 2015, she became very sick. Then, she says, Malka came up behind her in the shower without her consent. She says she told him to get the hell out.

She wrote: “I was throwing up and decided to hop in the shower to feel better. I was surprised when he got into the shower, fully naked behind me. I had a boyfriend at the time and didn’t think I had given him any reason to believe I wanted this. I didn’t cheat.” The post was screencapped and has been shared widely over the past few days.
In a phone conversation with Kotaku, Leupp said that even after the alleged shower incident, she’d continued her friendship and even had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015. She said that, prior to the alleged shower incident “I had no reason not to trust him. He had been introducing me to people and helping me network for my film company,” she told me. “I feel gross from having ever been in contact with this person.”

Leupp’s post added to growing dissent among the NeoGAF community about an apparent disconnect between Malka’s progressive internet presence and his statements and behavior around issues of sexual misconduct. The forum’s politics are colored by Malka’s support of progressive topics such as the Paris Agreement and gay marriage. He has donated thousands to organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union. Malka is also vocally anti-GamerGate and has expressed support for its female victims.

In contrast to those professed views, Kotaku has spoken with long-time members who say they were recently banned for making what they saw as progressive arguments. One said they were banned for arguing that now-deceased Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner is not a feminist icon, while another said they were moderated for supporting the #BelieveWomen movement, which promotes trusting women who say they have been harassed. The bans provoked dissent among the community about whether those seemingly unilateral decisions are warranted or okay.

In one thread, a NeoGAF poster uploaded screencaps of another woman’s #MeToo post, involving allegations about a film journalist. Malka asked, “No evidence at all? No corroborating testimony? No behavioral red flags?,” adding, “So far this is nothing like other recent industry scandals.” Later, after receiving pushback from posters who found his initial comment callous, Malka described posters’ immediate support of the #MeToo post as “witch hunts,” adding that it will take time for the allegations’ veracity to be proven. Several vocal critics of Malka’s approach say they were banned. One of Malka’s posts responding to a ban read, “Fuck off, dipshit. That enough toxic masculinity for you? I was moderating my platform, not going to bat for Dr. Neckbeard.”

Sarah, who asked that Kotaku use a fake name, has posted on NeoGAF since 2010 because she thought it was a comfortable place for women to discuss games on the internet. Of recent events, she said, “When all the guys started getting banned for defending women speaking up, I realized this has been a problem for a long time. The girls on GAF are leaving, not talking anymore. It seems like Tyler is shutting down talk of misogyny or sexism and stuff like that in a harsh way.”

One incident that has recirculated in the wake of these allegations is a 2012 post in which Malka described how, at a party in Spain, he grabbed a woman’s butt after buying her a drink:

“At one point in a bar a girl who didn’t speak any English came up to me and started flirting heavily, then went straight into asking me to buy her a drink. . . I laughed because drinks here were all of two Euros, but consented and then grabbed her ass hard to show that I wasn’t being taken advantage of, and she thought better of treating me as a mark and left without taking her drink.”

In his defense, Malka later commented, “I don’t endorse getting overly physical with complete strangers without any implication of consent,” but added, “This was a very specific situation that went down. We’re all smashed, hard, at this million person party where normalcy is thrown at the window.”

As of the publication of this article, NeoGAF is down, and its future remains hazy. One long-time mod told me that the mods had considered walking out several times in the past, but “we felt like sticking it out to keep the good parts of the community together.” But, the mod said, a direct accusation of sexual misconduct gave them a “moral compunction to trust the victim’s account and disassociate myself.”

Frequent posters have taken to Twitter and other forums to lament the website. Gaming personality Shinobo602, a long-time NeoGAF poster, said, “NeoGAF’s owner & some bad apples aside, it was part of my online life for a decade. Wouldn’t have met so many wonderful people otherwise.” Halo franchise development director Frank O’Connor said that “Neogaf is a great reminder of how fragile a conversation is. I hope it’s not true - but for the alleged victims not the alleged perpetrators. Lots of good people posted there and apparently a couple of bad ones.” Over Discord, a few former community members are organizing to create replacements.



https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

zepblackstar

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7085 on: October 22, 2017, 06:14:35 PM »
Quote
In his defense, Malka later commented, “I don’t endorse getting overly physical with complete strangers without any implication of consent,” but added, “This was a very specific situation that went down. We’re all smashed, hard, at this million person party where normalcy is thrown at the window.”

 :-* :-\ :o

Opiate

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7086 on: October 22, 2017, 06:14:52 PM »
No, I am not referring to that post. I am referring to why moderators kept sticking around or not standing up until now when awful behaviors were apparent within Tyler and the moderation crew. You said something about it being hard to separate rumor from real. Maybe I can find the post.

Okay, if I remember the point correctly, it was not that we had never heard the allegations about Evilore, but that we had heard so many allegations that determining what was legitimate and what was mere rumor was extremely difficult. I've seen Evil called a Nazi, but also a Communist, a God and Satan, and it's difficult to tell who is being sincere and who is just bitter that they got banned. If you think of the internet as a whole lot of white noise, detecting a signal can often be difficult. I suspect for many moderators this last week was not the first straw, but the last one.

Quote
As for intellectual minority: I'm that minority here and the only protection I require is being able to make my point. I get dogpiled all the time. You kind of have to let people learn to defend themselves by allowing them that ability to defend themselves. If demi started banning the people who gang up on me, then it would naturally lead to people copying my posting style for that same protection, and soon enough I'd be the dangerous majority.

There's definitely some validity to this, but on the other hand, you have people who may not be as durable as you are. Again, it doesn't even take bullying: it can just be mentally exhausting to make a post and then feel obligated to respond to 10 people who all disagree with you with only 1 person who agrees backing you up. All day. Many people are likely to just go somewhere else that is less exhausting, and this effect leads to separate echo chambers.

Frankie_baby

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7087 on: October 22, 2017, 06:14:58 PM »
How do you get on to the discord thing?

It’s basically a pretty IRC client, but it uses its own protocol, not IRC.  You can register and download it. You need invite links to specific “channels”.

I've gathered that much and am registered niw, just fancied checking out this gaf replacement channel that was talked about

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7088 on: October 22, 2017, 06:15:27 PM »
Quote
In contrast to those professed views, Kotaku has spoken with long-time members who say they were recently banned for making what they saw as progressive arguments. One said they were banned for arguing that now-deceased Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner is not a feminist icon

:bobby ?
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TypicalVoatShitlord

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7089 on: October 22, 2017, 06:16:36 PM »
Cecilia D'nastio is a moron, but did she just out the vic?


seagrams hotsauce

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7090 on: October 22, 2017, 06:16:46 PM »
Quote
In contrast to those professed views, Kotaku has spoken with long-time members who say they were recently banned for making what they saw as progressive arguments. One said they were banned for arguing that now-deceased Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner is not a feminist icon


:lol  :bobby

Opiate

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7091 on: October 22, 2017, 06:17:10 PM »
If you thought that any of those things were ever goals set by the Bore, you played yourself son.

And that's fine, as there is no reason you can't enjoy something that may be less populated or popular. There are certainly plenty of good but smaller forums. But if popularity and industry connections are not a sign of a good forum, then what is? Your personal preference?What about my personal preferences? There's nothing wrong with having a preference, and I respect that you may have different preferences than I might have. But the reason why personal preferences don't typically lead to good conversation/argument is that they are unenforceable -- they have no external validity. I like orange, you like blue; nothing wrong with those preferences, but good luck to either of us convincing the other that he's totally wrong. It's a nonsense argument.

Sure. But you yourself acknowledged systemic problems particular to GAF moderation, which are not present here. I think what makes a forum bad is a toxic environment, which has been fostered by site management over the years over there.

I agree with that. Saying "there are many good qualities about GAF moderation" does not equate to saying they are perfect. Far from it -- they kept me on for the better part of a decade, after all.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7092 on: October 22, 2017, 06:17:16 PM »
Quote
Sarah, who asked that Kotaku use a fake name, has posted on NeoGAF since 2010 because she thought it was a comfortable place for women to discuss games on the internet. Of recent events, she said, “When all the guys started getting banned for defending women speaking up, I realized this has been a problem for a long time. The girls on GAF are leaving, not talking anymore. It seems like Tyler is shutting down talk of misogyny or sexism and stuff like that in a harsh way.”

Ahahahahahahahaha

Sure Sarah, sure...

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7093 on: October 22, 2017, 06:17:17 PM »
Opiate:

I can't find the post, but some pages back you said something in response to the mod team only responding now to Evilore? I swear you said that its hard to tell what is rumor from real, but I find that to not compute.

Are you expecting me to believe that you will make careful thoughtful arguments on pedophilia and intellectual oppression, but that you nor any of the mods can tell the difference between "Evilore is a cigarillo" and "Evilore grabbed a woman's ass in Spain and acted entitlted to it and it was posted by him on your forum."

That certainly was not true during my tenure. Most of us would self regulate, with occasional communal intervention if we felt one of us was stepping notably out of line or had made a wrong move (it happened: usually not sinister). I did say that Evilore would only intervene directly very occasionally, but when he did so it was often "heavy handed." And if you want me to elaborate on what "heavy handed" means, I mean that we might discuss a topic or a poster for some time, then he would drop in to IRC, make a few comments, declare his position final, and that was the end of the discussion. That was of course his right as the site owner, and not always entirely an unreasonable path (in a business, sometimes managers just need to put their foot down and make a final decision), but it was more frequent than I think would have been optimal and he very rarely took a careful, considered approach.

I mean, Bish would use the heaviest of hands all the time in threads, and he was a mod for years, and he did that for years. Everyone knew about it, because there were memes and all sorts of bullshit.

 So whatever communal intervention there was there between moderators didn't seem to be working very well.

Occam

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7094 on: October 22, 2017, 06:17:54 PM »
@Opiate

Please, I need to know, what was the reasoning behind NeoGAF's total lack of transparency? Why couldn't regular members even see ban durations?
504

Opiate

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7095 on: October 22, 2017, 06:18:42 PM »
Quote
In his defense, Malka later commented, “I don’t endorse getting overly physical with complete strangers without any implication of consent,” but added, “This was a very specific situation that went down. We’re all smashed, hard, at this million person party where normalcy is thrown at the window.”

The important thing to note about this defense is that this is, presumably, Evil's best line of defense. Not that it didn't happen; not that she consented; not that the entire story was fabricated; but that hey, we were drunk, sometimes things get out of hand.

If that's the case, I can certainly see how this was the last straw for many moderators.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7096 on: October 22, 2017, 06:19:17 PM »
NM, it was not Jason lol
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 06:29:27 PM by Boredfrom »

Optimus

  • Lieutenant colonel, 26th Hate Machine battalion
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7097 on: October 22, 2017, 06:19:18 PM »
Quote
Sarah, who asked that Kotaku use a fake name, has posted on NeoGAF since 2010 because she thought it was a comfortable place for women to discuss games on the internet. Of recent events, she said, “When all the guys started getting banned for defending women speaking up, I realized this has been a problem for a long time. The girls on GAF are leaving, not talking anymore. It seems like Tyler is shutting down talk of misogyny or sexism and stuff like that in a harsh way.”

Ahahahahahahahaha

Sure Sarah, sure...

Good God, they're trying to play the victims now. Poor SJ Ws getting opressed on neogaf, won't anyone think of them?

Jarrod

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7098 on: October 22, 2017, 06:19:51 PM »
Wow what a crazy 24 hours it has been. Has anyone actually checked on Lore?

nudemacusers

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7099 on: October 22, 2017, 06:20:32 PM »
Quote
In contrast to those professed views, Kotaku has spoken with long-time members who say they were recently banned for making what they saw as progressive arguments. One said they were banned for arguing that now-deceased Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner is not a feminist icon


:lol  :bobby
That could be anybody, kiddo.
﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7100 on: October 22, 2017, 06:20:37 PM »
Cecilia D'nastio is a moron, but did she just out the vic?

She spoke with Kotaku so obviously she was fine with it. (I guess ?)
Her name was barely a secret, people traced the Facebook avatar a day within the caps being posted so anonymity was out anyway despite her wishes.
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thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7101 on: October 22, 2017, 06:21:04 PM »
Ah, gotcha. I am a big supporter of a diverse forum body will often yield diverse viewpoints to the benefit of everybody, but that is sure as hell not how you handle it. You cannot just run a forum (or anything for that matter) with unequal enforcement of the rules. People will notice and realize they can get away with far more shit without repercussions. That is one of the things about Gaf. While I was happy that things liker racism, homophobia, sexism, etc., were not tolerated on Gaf, it went far and above that and people were dogpiled in a lot of cases where they just were ignorant or not very eloquent with their words. If you want the "young, white, male demographic" to listen, you have to explain to the people you are trying to talk to why their preconceived notions are wrong rather than just gang up on them til they get banned.

:preach

Opiate

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7102 on: October 22, 2017, 06:22:21 PM »
@Opiate

Please, I need to know, what was the reasoning behind NeoGAF's total lack of transparency? Why couldn't regular members even see ban durations?

The answer is that while you may personally be a terrific person, many people are not. And nothing bogs down site discussion or moderation more than endless bickering about how long X ban was or why someone else was banned or oh my gosh this guy said the N word and got banned for 10 days but this other guy said it and only got banned for 5 what is this, and so on. Moderators could explain the context (let's say one person said the N word in the middle of a seemingly-joke statement while the former said it more earnestly), but then someone else would disagree, and say they're both jokes, etc.

Important to note that I have a pretty deeply cynical view of humanity, and that cynicism is escalated further when people feel aggrieved, as is natural when you or your friend is banned.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7103 on: October 22, 2017, 06:22:55 PM »
Quote
Sarah, who asked that Kotaku use a fake name, has posted on NeoGAF since 2010 because she thought it was a comfortable place for women to discuss games on the internet. Of recent events, she said, “When all the guys started getting banned for defending women speaking up, I realized this has been a problem for a long time. The girls on GAF are leaving, not talking anymore. It seems like Tyler is shutting down talk of misogyny or sexism and stuff like that in a harsh way.”

Ahahahahahahahaha

Sure Sarah, sure...

Good God, they're trying to play the victims now. Poor SJ Ws getting opressed on neogaf, won't anyone think of them?

Being fair, Tyler did become harsher about the sexual allegations threads, but people were not exactly stoping posting stuff outside Lore own escapades.

Opiate

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7104 on: October 22, 2017, 06:23:05 PM »
That quote is about the infamous ass grab in Spain, which we know about because EviLore bragged about it openly.

Thank you for the correction, Riotous.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7105 on: October 22, 2017, 06:23:18 PM »
haha BOBBY ROBERTS STRIKES FROM THE GRAVE

tummyfat

  • Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7106 on: October 22, 2017, 06:23:48 PM »
Who was that guy who had his name changed to Lord Virgin and then responded by changing his avatar to a pic of Evilore? Him, Polyh3dron and Crankyjay are my GAF heroes

Syph

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7107 on: October 22, 2017, 06:24:53 PM »
think of how many hundreds of thousands of dollars of value were just destroyed because of the actions of a perv
XO

wsippel

  • Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7108 on: October 22, 2017, 06:25:26 PM »

That's actually a quote by Goering.

I know, but the question was why Hitler allowed it if I remember correctly.

Either way, shit like this is typical for any authoritarian regime. Leadership makes up some dumb ideology, creates a vague "common purpose" or "common enemy" to rally the crowd, but that's only for the mob. In reality, it's "do as we say, not as we do".

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7109 on: October 22, 2017, 06:26:43 PM »
The situation was far more complicated than that. For example, while some nationalist dumbfucks vandalized the restaurant of a highly decorated black German veteran officer in Berlin (yes, the German army had black officers in WWI), the Wehrmacht fought alongside black troops in Africa, and they continued to pay pensions to black WWI veterans. So while the propaganda painted them as subhumans and the mob acted as expected, leadership was far more opportunistic. There even was an entire Indian SS division. Obviously, had they been just a bunch of loons blindly following some nonsensical ideology, they wouldn't have been that dangerous and successful.

I never said it wasn't complicated, never said it was a bunch of loons blindly following some nonsensical ideology...  but claiming they were less racist than Europe/US under Hitler seems ridiculous to me.   They seem at the very least equal.

Under Hitler? Almost certainly not, because of the propaganda. In the years leading up to the NSDAP taking over? I sure think so. Less racist than the US, at the very least. All of that was thrown away by the NSDAP, while they happily worked with "subhumans" under the surface. I mean, "I decide who is or isn't a jew" was an actual statement brought up when people questioned why Hitler wouldn't get rid of a Jewish Wehrmacht general.
The Nazi's were the biggest frauds ever. We should look back at them as the incompetent losers they were.

I mean, if you have 20+ million soldiers to march into battle you will last at least 4 years as well.
Little known fact that if the English and French had actually fought with the Poles they could've wrapped the whole thing up in '39. The Poles alone destroyed 30% of the heavy German weaponry.
The Germans could quickly re-arm by looting the Polish guns.

The Germans relied on horses more than they did on their tanks. The Nazi's ever got as far as they did because:
A. The US fucked up
B. The Brits fucked up
C. The French collaborated
D. The Russians collaborated (at first) and had purged their own officers

Once everyone got their shit together it was basically a straight line to Berlin. Hitler's own armaments minister said that the Germans didn't have the money to pay for the war, let alone prolonged occupation of the Soviet territories.

Say you have the biggest air force in Europe at that time and you can either try and bomb the Brits into submission or use your planes to back-up a massive landing on the beaches of England and destroy your enemies greatest asset (the Navy).
Of course you'd send them into suicide missions over the English countryside.

First you bombed a city to a pulp but it won't surrender. So you send your army that is halfway freezing to death to occupy the city you just bombed.
And then you come up with the brilliant plan to supply them by air, because everyone knows planes can fly just fine in bad weather conditions.

Nazi's were good at killing innocent civilians, most who actually fought them beat the shit out of their 'invincible' army.

 :doge
🤴

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7110 on: October 22, 2017, 06:27:24 PM »
think of how many hundreds of thousands of dollars of value were just destroyed because of the actions of a perv

The US Politics thread is that way.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shitty google ads and adult toys value  :noooo
[close]
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OpinionatedCyborg

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7111 on: October 22, 2017, 06:27:53 PM »
No, I am not referring to that post. I am referring to why moderators kept sticking around or not standing up until now when awful behaviors were apparent within Tyler and the moderation crew. You said something about it being hard to separate rumor from real. Maybe I can find the post.

Okay, if I remember the point correctly, it was not that we had never heard the allegations about Evilore, but that we had heard so many allegations that determining what was legitimate and what was mere rumor was extremely difficult. I've seen Evil called a Nazi, but also a Communist, a God and Satan, and it's difficult to tell who is being sincere and who is just bitter that they got banned. If you think of the internet as a whole lot of white noise, detecting a signal can often be difficult. I suspect for many moderators this last week was not the first straw, but the last one.

Quote
As for intellectual minority: I'm that minority here and the only protection I require is being able to make my point. I get dogpiled all the time. You kind of have to let people learn to defend themselves by allowing them that ability to defend themselves. If demi started banning the people who gang up on me, then it would naturally lead to people copying my posting style for that same protection, and soon enough I'd be the dangerous majority.

There's definitely some validity to this, but on the other hand, you have people who may not be as durable as you are. Again, it doesn't even take bullying: it can just be mentally exhausting to make a post and then feel obligated to respond to 10 people who all disagree with you with only 1 person who agrees backing you up. All day. Many people are likely to just go somewhere else that is less exhausting, and this effect leads to separate echo chambers.
Forget other people's allegations -- what about the groping incident that he posted about? His association with amirox? His treatment of the users? Google image search "evilore" and you'll see a variety of his posts that point to him being a sketchy dude: narcissistic, misogynistic, racist, etc. Just admit that you turned a blind eye to his behaviour or that it didn't bother you. It didn't really bother me. I like weird/creepy people, which is why I was disappointed that White Man was finally banned. I go on forums to interact with and observe creeps that I wouldn't associate with in my every day life.

For example:
http://i.imgur.com/Fhj38oy.jpg

Quote
In his defense, Malka later commented, “I don’t endorse getting overly physical with complete strangers without any implication of consent,” but added, “This was a very specific situation that went down. We’re all smashed, hard, at this million person party where normalcy is thrown at the window.”

The important thing to note about this defense is that this is, presumably, Evil's best line of defense. Not that it didn't happen; not that she consented; not that the entire story was fabricated; but that hey, we were drunk, sometimes things get out of hand.

If that's the case, I can certainly see how this was the last straw for many moderators.
This was his defense back in 2012. Why wasn't it the last straw back then?

seagrams hotsauce

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7112 on: October 22, 2017, 06:28:29 PM »
are you fuckin nerds seriously debating WWII right now? buncha Mark Corrigans up in this bitch

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7113 on: October 22, 2017, 06:29:49 PM »
That is what I mean. I don't get how its hard to separate "Evilore is a nazi" from Evilore's actual posts.

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7114 on: October 22, 2017, 06:30:45 PM »
are you fuckin nerds seriously debating WWII right now? buncha Mark Corrigans up in this bitch

Hopefully we'll get a wall of text on the Asian war started in 1937 (the real forgotten one) and something about the ideological nuance in Oustachi ideology.
ὕβρις

Occam

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7115 on: October 22, 2017, 06:31:04 PM »

That's actually a quote by Goering.

I know, but the question was why Hitler allowed it if I remember correctly.


Because it suited him. When it was discovered that Emil Maurice (Hitler's driver, co-founder of the SS and one of only three people (iirc) who were on a first name basis with Hitler) had Jewish ancestry, Hitler personally declared Maurice "honorary Aryan" to prevent his expulsion from the SS.
504

OnlyRegret

  • <<SALVATION!>>
  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7116 on: October 22, 2017, 06:31:09 PM »
I'm surprised it took this long though.
Not like his fuckery was unknown, he just did his best to keep it buried by banning and cover-ups. Was going to fall apart eventually

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7117 on: October 22, 2017, 06:31:34 PM »
New details in the kotaku article:

Quote
The mass exodus was spurred by a Facebook post last Tuesday by film director Ima Leupp. The post, a part of the millions-strong #MeToo phenomenon that has women speaking out about personal instances of sexual harassment, described a trip Leupp says she took with NeoGAF owner Tyler “Evilore” Malka two years ago. Although she originally did not name Malka, she later posted in the comments of her thread that interested parties should “google Evilore.” She said that while she and Malka, who was her friend, were drinking together in a New Orleans hotel room in April 2015, she became very sick. Then, she says, Malka came up behind her in the shower without her consent. She says she told him to get the hell out.

She wrote: “I was throwing up and decided to hop in the shower to feel better. I was surprised when he got into the shower, fully naked behind me. I had a boyfriend at the time and didn’t think I had given him any reason to believe I wanted this. I didn’t cheat.” The post was screencapped and has been shared widely over the past few days.
In a phone conversation with Kotaku, Leupp said that even after the alleged shower incident, she’d continued her friendship and even had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015. She said that, prior to the alleged shower incident “I had no reason not to trust him. He had been introducing me to people and helping me network for my film company,” she told me. “I feel gross from having ever been in contact with this person.”

Leupp’s post added to growing dissent among the NeoGAF community about an apparent disconnect between Malka’s progressive internet presence and his statements and behavior around issues of sexual misconduct. The forum’s politics are colored by Malka’s support of progressive topics such as the Paris Agreement and gay marriage. He has donated thousands to organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union. Malka is also vocally anti-GamerGate and has expressed support for its female victims.

In contrast to those professed views, Kotaku has spoken with long-time members who say they were recently banned for making what they saw as progressive arguments. One said they were banned for arguing that now-deceased Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner is not a feminist icon, while another said they were moderated for supporting the #BelieveWomen movement, which promotes trusting women who say they have been harassed. The bans provoked dissent among the community about whether those seemingly unilateral decisions are warranted or okay.

In one thread, a NeoGAF poster uploaded screencaps of another woman’s #MeToo post, involving allegations about a film journalist. Malka asked, “No evidence at all? No corroborating testimony? No behavioral red flags?,” adding, “So far this is nothing like other recent industry scandals.” Later, after receiving pushback from posters who found his initial comment callous, Malka described posters’ immediate support of the #MeToo post as “witch hunts,” adding that it will take time for the allegations’ veracity to be proven. Several vocal critics of Malka’s approach say they were banned. One of Malka’s posts responding to a ban read, “Fuck off, dipshit. That enough toxic masculinity for you? I was moderating my platform, not going to bat for Dr. Neckbeard.”

Sarah, who asked that Kotaku use a fake name, has posted on NeoGAF since 2010 because she thought it was a comfortable place for women to discuss games on the internet. Of recent events, she said, “When all the guys started getting banned for defending women speaking up, I realized this has been a problem for a long time. The girls on GAF are leaving, not talking anymore. It seems like Tyler is shutting down talk of misogyny or sexism and stuff like that in a harsh way.”

One incident that has recirculated in the wake of these allegations is a 2012 post in which Malka described how, at a party in Spain, he grabbed a woman’s butt after buying her a drink:

“At one point in a bar a girl who didn’t speak any English came up to me and started flirting heavily, then went straight into asking me to buy her a drink. . . I laughed because drinks here were all of two Euros, but consented and then grabbed her ass hard to show that I wasn’t being taken advantage of, and she thought better of treating me as a mark and left without taking her drink.”

In his defense, Malka later commented, “I don’t endorse getting overly physical with complete strangers without any implication of consent,” but added, “This was a very specific situation that went down. We’re all smashed, hard, at this million person party where normalcy is thrown at the window.”

As of the publication of this article, NeoGAF is down, and its future remains hazy. One long-time mod told me that the mods had considered walking out several times in the past, but “we felt like sticking it out to keep the good parts of the community together.” But, the mod said, a direct accusation of sexual misconduct gave them a “moral compunction to trust the victim’s account and disassociate myself.”

Frequent posters have taken to Twitter and other forums to lament the website. Gaming personality Shinobo602, a long-time NeoGAF poster, said, “NeoGAF’s owner & some bad apples aside, it was part of my online life for a decade. Wouldn’t have met so many wonderful people otherwise.” Halo franchise development director Frank O’Connor said that “Neogaf is a great reminder of how fragile a conversation is. I hope it’s not true - but for the alleged victims not the alleged perpetrators. Lots of good people posted there and apparently a couple of bad ones.” Over Discord, a few former community members are organizing to create replacements.



https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-after-sexual-misconduct-allegation-aga-1819755151?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

She should have asked that mod why the mod team didn't walk off after Amirox was outed as a pedo and any conversation about him buried (and enforced by the same mods).

hungrynoob

  • boo
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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7118 on: October 22, 2017, 06:32:55 PM »
The irony of his defense his that, even if it were true, it would have never been allowed to slide if say it was just a general member who had been called out for that.

Bitmap Frogs

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7119 on: October 22, 2017, 06:33:32 PM »
I swear I made an account with this username last time I got banned.

Do you guys purge accounts?

nudemacusers

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7120 on: October 22, 2017, 06:33:44 PM »
You’ll notice no gaf mods were harmed in the creation of this article
﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽

Nabbis

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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7121 on: October 22, 2017, 06:33:54 PM »
I'm surprised it took this long though.
Not like his fuckery was unknown, he just did his best to keep it buried by banning and cover-ups. Was going to fall apart eventually

The only reason it worked this time was due to a "perfect storm" moment. Sexual allegations all over the media, increased annoyance of Neogaf shitty moderation and fostering a neoleft cult blowing up at the same time.

I could not have done this job without my good friends at the ФСБ.

Nintex

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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7122 on: October 22, 2017, 06:35:09 PM »
Quote
One long-time mod told me that the mods had considered walking out several times in the past, but “we felt like sticking it out to keep the good parts of the community together.” But, the mod said, a direct accusation of sexual misconduct gave them a “moral compunction to trust the victim’s account and disassociate myself.”


"Well we considered leaving before but now that we're in the crossfire we'd better bail. See ya!"
🤴

Bravotyler

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7123 on: October 22, 2017, 06:35:15 PM »
I'm surprised it took this long though.
Not like his fuckery was unknown, he just did his best to keep it buried by banning and cover-ups. Was going to fall apart eventually

The only reason it worked this time was due to a "perfect storm" moment. Sexual allegations all over the media, increased annoyance of Neogaf shitty moderation and fostering a neoleft cult blowing up at the same time.

Got beaten to the punch on it, but yeah. Add in the Amir0x fiasco that he publicly bungled a couple months ago and the stage was set.

John Dunbar

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7124 on: October 22, 2017, 06:35:50 PM »
I swear I made an account with this username last time I got banned.

Do you guys purge accounts?

probably not, they still had this account which is from 2008. i actually have even an older account here that is from 2007 connected to my usual email.

Averon

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7125 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:06 PM »
Whichever GAF offshoot that wins the Bobby Roberts lottery will likely be the new GAF. If these wannabe GAF sites are smart, they'd be courting Bobby Roberts right now.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7126 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:06 PM »
GAF was popular because, back in the hey day when it was still part of Gaming-Age, it was the go-to place for news, rumors, and reviews. Over time, it formed a few decent communities where people can go and be chill. When places like Reddit and 4chan gave people those same communities without all the bullshit GAF brings, it was only natural that GAF will start to wane in popularity. The only thing GAF had over other places are news and rumors, but even that was waning with more and more rumors and news breaking on /v/ or Reddit.

You're forgetting the mods did not actively even like the community threads.

I made the Negro Gaf thread. There was already an LGBT thread and iirc a Latino thread. After it got too popular with insane number of clicks, butt hurt white dudes came and aped our thread by making a White People Gaf thread. Then EviLore and his incompetent ass MERGED ALL OF THE THREADS TOGETHER, creating a giant soup of "FUCK YOU" because a few assholes didn't like that they couldn't be in the negro gaf gang. Then after that I had to fight to have my thread up because "we don't like communities like this because they're very exclusive and we strive to have an inclusive mindset. We worry that specific niche communities will splinter the board" despite the fact that the LGBT thread had been there for fucking ages. But nah, can't let the black people have their thread. Eventually I got it, and not without a fight, but the staff hate for communities stayed. They created the community forum to stuff any "community" they didn't like into the background away from the real eyeballs they wanted because community threads didn't bring in money. News threads did.

And if the staff doesn't like "inclusive communities" it's much easier to just head on over to Reddit in the end. Chatting with friends? Can't have that. Gotta "stay on topic".
IYKYK

injurai

  • Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7127 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:28 PM »
Quote
One long-time mod told me that the mods had considered walking out several times in the past, but “we felt like sticking it out to keep the good parts of the community together.” But, the mod said, a direct accusation of sexual misconduct gave them a “moral compunction to trust the victim’s account and disassociate myself.”
(Image removed from quote.)

"Well we considered leaving before but now that we're in the crossfire we'd better bail. See ya!"

Depends on which mod is saying that, but they speak for themselves. Plenty of mods were drunk with the power dynamic that they happened upon and had no intention of giving that up.

Jenkem

  • MARANAX INFIRMUX
  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7128 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:28 PM »
The Ghana national football team represents Ghana in international association football and has done so since the 1950s. The team is nicknamed the Black Stars after the Black Star of Africa in the Flag of Ghana. It is administered by the Ghana Football Association, the governing body for football in Ghana and the oldest football association in Africa (founded in 1920). Prior to 1957, the team played as the Gold Coast. Although the team qualified for the senior FIFA World Cup for the first time in 2006, they had qualified for four Olympic Games Football Tournaments when the tournament was still a full senior national team competition; their best achievement was the third position at the 1992 Summer Olympics. The team has won the Africa Cup of Nations four times (in 1963, 1965, 1978, and 1982) and has been runner-up 5 times (in 1968, 1970, 1992, 2010, and 2015). After going through 2005 unbeaten, the Ghana national football team won the FIFA Best Mover of the Year Award and reached the second round of the 2006 FIFA World Cup. At the 2010 FIFA World Cup in South Africa, they became only the third African team to reach the World Cup quarter-finals, and in 2014 they competed in their third consecutive World Cup.

The Gold Coast Football Association was founded in 1920, succeeded by the Ghana Football Association (GFA) in 1957, which affiliated to Confederation of African Football and FIFA the following year. On 19 August 1962 at the Accra Sports Stadium, the Black Stars played Spanish giants Real Madrid, who were at the time Spanish champions, former European champions and intercontinental champions, and drew 3–3. Charles Kumi Gyamfi became coach in 1961, and the Black Stars won successive African Cup of Nations titles, in 1963 and 1965, and achieved their record win, 13–2 away to Kenya, shortly after the second of these. They also reached the final of the tournament in 1968 and 1970, losing 1–0 on each occasion, to DR Congo and Sudan respectively. Their domination of this tournament earned the Black Stars team the nicknames of "the Black Stars of West Africa" and "the Black Stars of Africa" in the 1960s. The team had no success in FIFA World Cup qualification during this era, and failed to qualify for three successive African Cup of Nations in the 1970s, but qualified for the Olympic Games football tournaments, becoming the first team from sub-Saharan Africa to qualify for the Games, and reaching the quarter-finals in 1964 and withdrawing on political grounds in 1976 later winning the 1982 African cup of nations. After three failures to reach the tournament final, the 1992 African Cup of Nations saw the Black Stars finish second.

Prior to the year 2000, disharmony among the squad which eventually led to parliamentary and executive intervention to settle issues between two squad members, Abedi Pele and Anthony Yeboah in the late 1990s, may have played some part in the failure of the team to build on the successes of the national underage teams in the late 1990s, but a new generation of Black Stars players who went to the 2001 FIFA World Youth Championship final became the core of the team at the 2002 African Cup of Nations, and were undefeated for a year in 2005 and reached the finals of the 2006 FIFA World Cup, the first time the team had reached the global stage of the tournament. The Black Stars started by succumbing to a 2–0 defeat to eventual champions Italy, but wins over the Czech Republic (2–0) and the United States (2–1) saw them through to the second round, where they lost 3–0 to Brazil.

In 2008, Ghana reached a high ranking of 14 according to the FIFA World Rankings. The Black Stars went on to secure a 100 percent record in their qualification campaign, winning the group and becoming the first African team to qualify for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. In the final tournament, the team competed in Group D with Germany, Serbia and Australia. Ghana reached the round of 16 where they played the United States, winning 2–1 in extra time to become the third African nation to reach the World Cup quarter-finals. The team then lost to Uruguay in a penalty shootout in the quarter-finals, having missed a penalty kick in extra time after a certain goal was prevented by Luis Suárez's deliberate handball, who was then shown a red card for his actions. In 2013 Ghana became the only team in Africa to reach four consecutive semi-finals of the CAF Africa Cup of Nations twice, from 1963 and 1970 and from 2008 and 2013. Ghana was sufficiently highly ranked by FIFA to start their qualifying for the 2014 World Cup in the Second round. They won the group, and in the following round qualified for the 2014 World Cup finals in November 2013, beating Egypt 7–3 on aggregate in a two-legged play-off. Ghana was drawn in Group G for the finals, where they faced Germany, Portugal, and the United States. The World cup finals ended up in disappointment as Ghana exited in the group stages with issues of poor planning and payment bonuses being blamed for the poor performance, although they did manage a 2–2 draw with Germany, who ended up winning the competition.

zomgbbqftw

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7129 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:46 PM »
"In a phone conversation with Kotaku, Leupp said that even after the alleged shower incident, she’d continued her friendship and even had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015. She said that, prior to the alleged shower incident “I had no reason not to trust him. He had been introducing me to people and helping me network for my film company,” she told me. “I feel gross from having ever been in contact with this person.”

What the flying fuck?!

She fucked him after the creepy shower incident. Credibility levels at fucking zero. Maybe that cult story was true.

 :lol :lol

I'm a Puppy!

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  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7130 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:50 PM »
Tatonka!!!
que

OpinionatedCyborg

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7131 on: October 22, 2017, 06:37:00 PM »
I swear I made an account with this username last time I got banned.

Do you guys purge accounts?

probably not, they still had this account which is from 2008. i actually have even an older account here that is from 2007 connected to my usual email.
Yeah, I've had this account since 2006 and I'm pretty sure yesterday was the first time I logged on in over a decade.

John Dunbar

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7132 on: October 22, 2017, 06:37:33 PM »
Tatonka!!!

got any word from cyan, if you're still in contact?

Mr Gilhaney

  • Gay and suicidal
  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7133 on: October 22, 2017, 06:37:40 PM »
So well, I guess the posts from Evilore about dating girls much hotter than that Brazilian girl, that sold her virginity, certainly isn't true after some google image searching.

Dennis

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7134 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:07 PM »
Quote
In contrast to those professed views, Kotaku has spoken with long-time members who say they were recently banned for making what they saw as progressive arguments. One said they were banned for arguing that now-deceased Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner is not a feminist icon


 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 :dead

nudemacusers

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7135 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:08 PM »
"In a phone conversation with Kotaku, Leupp said that even after the alleged shower incident, she’d continued her friendship and even had a brief physical relationship with Malka until they had a falling out at E3 2015. She said that, prior to the alleged shower incident “I had no reason not to trust him. He had been introducing me to people and helping me network for my film company,” she told me. “I feel gross from having ever been in contact with this person.”

What the flying fuck?!

She fucked him after the creepy shower incident. Credibility levels at fucking zero. Maybe that cult story was true.

 :lol :lol
:dead
﷽﷽﷽﷽﷽

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7136 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:11 PM »
I'm guessing the straw that broke the camel-mod back was EviLore suddenly enacting a policy that sexual assault allegation threads should favor not believing the accuser.

The mod team up until that point was fostering the opposite. 

Then.. about 2 weeks later... boom..

No, the straw was Evilore getting caught again and not being able to bury it. They were okay with shit like making Amirox a unperson.

Kyougar

  • Junior Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7137 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:14 PM »
New details in the kotaku article:



She should have asked that mod why the mod team didn't walk off after Amirox was outed as a pedo and any conversation about him buried (and enforced by the same mods).

that would be against the narrative, that all the mods are heroes standing up against saxual harassment. You know, every article who mentions, that the mods stepped down in protest? When there was zero official communication from the mods. Modbot said they were stepping down because of privacy issues and besada only said he is no longer afilliated.

Clockwork5

  • Member
Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7138 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:36 PM »
It is so funny. Yesterday before work I went to check GAF, full well knowing I was going to see nothing but uber-progressive outrage.

And that is exactly what I saw. I always felt like even though I spent a lot of time  there, I wasn't a part of the community. It all felt very adversarial as I was constantly toeing the line and playing cat and mouse with the moderators while getting dog piled and bullied by the preferred users.

Yesterday I said I'm done with GAF. Well out of habit (and hype for Mario) I checked it on my lunch break and...whew lad.  That was glorious...the same damn day I had made my peace with leaving it behind.  This is my first post here an If you all are chill I'll consider hanging around.

lennedsay

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Re: TheBore Safe Haven from GAF Alt-Right Mods - *THE STATEMENT*
« Reply #7139 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:44 PM »
Please tell me I haven't missed THE STATEMENT.
(|)