Author Topic: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit  (Read 9785 times)

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Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #180 on: August 12, 2018, 03:44:14 PM »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #181 on: August 12, 2018, 07:08:05 PM »
NtGay

agrajag

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #182 on: August 12, 2018, 09:08:01 PM »


We don't give a platform to content like this. Thread locked.

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #183 on: August 13, 2018, 08:05:29 PM »



agrajag

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #184 on: August 16, 2018, 01:14:30 AM »

EVOL

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #185 on: August 16, 2018, 11:35:01 AM »


You need to skip a lot of filler to get through this one, but it's worth it.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #186 on: August 26, 2018, 11:40:43 PM »

Stro

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #187 on: August 27, 2018, 09:03:47 AM »
What if Deakins and Cundrey collaborated with Michael Mann  :o

D3RANG3D

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #188 on: August 29, 2018, 02:43:03 PM »

agrajag

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #189 on: August 30, 2018, 12:34:38 PM »

Stro

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #190 on: August 30, 2018, 01:54:23 PM »
Are they called BattleHumans? No, they aren't you stupid fuck.

agrajag

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #191 on: August 30, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »
 :badass

D3RANG3D

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #192 on: September 01, 2018, 08:11:00 PM »

Joe Molotov

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #193 on: September 01, 2018, 08:31:24 PM »


I like ashens, and this video is entertaining and informative.
©@©™

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #194 on: September 02, 2018, 04:36:41 AM »
Youtube keeps recommending it to me. It seems to have permanent residence in my sidebar.

D3RANG3D

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #195 on: September 09, 2018, 03:26:46 PM »


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dose comments :dead

Dantizzinel

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #196 on: September 11, 2018, 05:29:20 PM »
\m/

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #197 on: September 12, 2018, 09:52:49 AM »

D3RANG3D

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #198 on: September 14, 2018, 02:30:46 PM »

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #199 on: September 15, 2018, 03:32:55 PM »
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 09:08:50 AM by Atramental »

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #200 on: September 16, 2018, 02:00:58 PM »

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #201 on: September 20, 2018, 08:23:26 AM »

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #202 on: September 24, 2018, 12:14:43 PM »

shosta

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #203 on: September 24, 2018, 07:10:12 PM »
Short video (10min)

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #204 on: September 28, 2018, 02:42:22 PM »



Raist

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #205 on: September 28, 2018, 07:23:00 PM »




"I voted for Brexit because it was such a great opportunity to shake things up in Westminster"

LOL
O
L

Purrp Skirrp

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #206 on: September 28, 2018, 08:25:41 PM »

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #207 on: September 29, 2018, 12:39:57 PM »




"I voted for Brexit because it was such a great opportunity to shake things up in Westminster"

LOL
O
L

She voted for Brexit because it was an undemocratic institution that had no regard for popular sovereignty. It was a principled stance. In other words you cannot be a true democrat and vote to remain in the EU.

They also talk about the cowardice of the Left on Brexit. There were many people on the Left, particularly the old school Left who were against the EU(Corbyn for example). Even the fucking guardian were against the EU at one point. It's funny, the guardian wrote an editorial outlining its case for 'remain' during the vote, but if you go back a few years they were saying the exact opposite. After the EU fucked over Greece the guardian wrote an editorial about it being time to leave the EU because of the undemocratic way it was behaving.

Personally, I can understand people's fears of the economic ramifications of Brexit, but at the same time, I can perfectly understand voting leave because of the fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 03:39:59 PM by Leadbelly »

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #208 on: September 29, 2018, 02:10:51 PM »

Raist

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #209 on: September 29, 2018, 05:25:33 PM »
She voted for Brexit because it was an undemocratic institution that had no regard for popular sovereignty. It was a principled stance. In other words you cannot be a true democrat and vote to remain in the EU.

They also talk about the cowardice of the Left on Brexit. There were many people on the Left, particularly the old school Left who were against the EU(Corbyn for example). Even the fucking guardian were against the EU at one point. It's funny, the guardian wrote an editorial outlining its case for 'remain' during the vote, but if you go back a few years they were saying the exact opposite. After the EU fucked over Greece the guardian wrote an editorial about it being time to leave the EU because of the undemocratic way it was behaving.

Personally, I can understand people's fears of the economic ramifications of Brexit, but at the same time, I can perfectly understand voting leave because of the fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty.

She cites multiple times a discontent with her country's government. How does this relate to the EU in any way?
But I guess she's happy to have a tory + DUP coalition now, she sure showed them :rofl


And give me a break about "voting leave because of the fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty".

In a country with a head of state appointed by divine rule. A democratic system based on FPTP where no one actually even votes for the government leader directly, but for their local MP.
And the House of Lords sure is a model of democracy :lol

So how exactly does this follow the "fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty", while an institution composed of (1) democratically elected MEP (2) democratically elected heads of state and (3) a council proposed by 2 and voted in by 1, is completely undemocratic?

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #210 on: September 29, 2018, 06:04:50 PM »
She voted for Brexit because it was an undemocratic institution that had no regard for popular sovereignty. It was a principled stance. In other words you cannot be a true democrat and vote to remain in the EU.

They also talk about the cowardice of the Left on Brexit. There were many people on the Left, particularly the old school Left who were against the EU(Corbyn for example). Even the fucking guardian were against the EU at one point. It's funny, the guardian wrote an editorial outlining its case for 'remain' during the vote, but if you go back a few years they were saying the exact opposite. After the EU fucked over Greece the guardian wrote an editorial about it being time to leave the EU because of the undemocratic way it was behaving.

Personally, I can understand people's fears of the economic ramifications of Brexit, but at the same time, I can perfectly understand voting leave because of the fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty.

She cites multiple times a discontent with her country's government. How does this relate to the EU in any way?
But I guess she's happy to have a tory + DUP coalition now, she sure showed them :rofl


And give me a break about "voting leave because of the fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty".

In a country with a head of state appointed by divine rule. A democratic system based on FPTP where no one actually even votes for the government leader directly, but for their local MP.
And the House of Lords sure is a model of democracy :lol

So how exactly does this follow the "fundamental principles of democracy and popular sovereignty", while an institution composed of (1) democratically elected MEP (2) democratically elected heads of state and (3) a council proposed by 2 and voted in by 1, is completely undemocratic?

No, that is pretty much her stance on Brexit. She doesn't explicitly say that in this interview.

It doesn't mean that the UK system doesn't have flaws, what it does mean is you have MPs that are at least answerable to the people. And in terms of the House of Lords, they(spiked) don't like it either.

In terms of how the EU works:

-democratically elected MEPs: MEPs have no power to create or propose legislation, they have no power to change existing legislation, all they can do is react to current proposals and that basically means ask them to look at the proposals again (a bit like the house of lords, funnily enough). That means MEPs are unable really to fulfil their mandate. Presumably they have asked the electorate to vote for them for some reason, when in reality they can't actually do anything.

Well, 2 and 3 are kind of the same thing. The council is made up of heads of state. This is an argument some have made for why the EU is democratic. Each head of state is democratically voted in by the citizens of their country. This is misleading though. Each individual head of state is only answerable to the citizens of their own country. Obviously that means Angela Merkel is not answerable to the British people. This also means the council as a body is answerable to no one because there is no unified EU citizenry to be answerable to. The council operates intergovernmentally which really is the only way it can run.

Really though how the EU institutions operate is the least of the concerns, it is the actions and interference in the votes and elections of individual EU states that is of the most concern. So for example France and the Netherlands(I think) voted against the EU constitution. The EU establishment didn't then decide to scrap it, they subverted the will of the people by repackaging the EU constitution as the Lisbon Treaty. Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty. The EU basically bullied them into taking the vote again until the people gave them the answer they wanted. They then fucked over the Greek people who tried in every way to assert their own independance which the EU basically squashed.

To go back to something I also mentioned. That being how many on the Left done a U-turn when it came to the EU. Surprisingly, one of those people was Owen Jones, who wrote this about the EU:

The left must put Britain's EU withdrawal on the agenda
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic

Of course when Brexit came around, his views suddenly changed. You might want to read what he wrote back then, he made some good points. lol

« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 06:29:11 PM by Leadbelly »

Raist

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #211 on: September 29, 2018, 06:33:40 PM »
You're discussing the technicalities of who proposes laws and how votes them in. This is a far cry from a "this is democratic but this isn't" dichotomy.

As for who answers to whom, this is exactly the same with the HoC. Each individual MP is only answerable to the residents of their own constituency. You have zero power over the remaining 649.


As for the whole EU constitution thing, the Treaty of Lisbon was nothing like it (and mostly an updated rehash of Maastricht + Rome anyway), and it was actually ratified by Ireland after a second referendum that followed significant changes made to it (i.e concessions).
And the Greek folks only have themselves / their government to blame. They dun goofed long before the EU did anything.


Look, I'm not surprised a ton of people are flipflopping. That's the british way :lol
People who were praising May then are now accusing her of sabotaging Brexit. Cause of course, that's the only explanation as to why it's a complete shitshow. Not the fact that people voted with absolutely zero idea on what kind of consequences their vote would have, should it determine the UK's actual decision (which it never was meant to in the first place). There's a reason why the vast majority of referendums are purely consultative, or require 2/3rd majorities.

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #212 on: September 29, 2018, 06:45:00 PM »
You're discussing the technicalities of who proposes laws and how votes them in. This is a far cry from a "this is democratic but this isn't" dichotomy.

As for who answers to whom, this is exactly the same with the HoC. Each individual MP is only answerable to the residents of their own constituency. You have zero power over the remaining 649.


As for the whole EU constitution thing, the Treaty of Lisbon was nothing like it (and mostly an updated rehash of Maastricht + Rome anyway), and it was actually ratified by Ireland after a second referendum that followed significant changes made to it (i.e concessions).
And the Greek folks only have themselves / their government to blame. They dun goofed long before the EU did anything.

The Lisbon Treaty:

Quote
he EU's new treaty is the same as the rejected constitution - only the format has been changed to avoid referendums, says Valery Giscard d'Estaing, architect of the constitution.
https://euobserver.com/institutional/25052

In terms of Greece, yeah Greece fucked themselves up, that isn't entirely the issue, the issue is the way the EU interfered with the country. That was what so many people were outraged over.

The examples I gave are just a few though. The EU basically forced out Berlusconi is another thing I can point out.
https://euobserver.com/economic/114264

I forgot to mention. The UK government is answerable to the UK people in a way the EU is not. You can't compare the two.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 06:49:31 PM by Leadbelly »

toku

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #213 on: September 29, 2018, 06:46:16 PM »


D3RANG3D

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #214 on: September 30, 2018, 08:30:24 PM »




 :nsfanyone

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #215 on: October 06, 2018, 12:17:53 AM »

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #216 on: October 06, 2018, 07:17:51 AM »
I wasn't aware western civilization was dying.

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #217 on: October 06, 2018, 02:43:13 PM »
I wasn't aware western civilization was dying.

Well, is it dying, is it not? I think one thing you need to do before discussing this subject is define what Western civilisation is. Yaron Brook states it is not really to do with geography (Australia of course is described as a Western country) nor is it necessarily to do with a particular Ethnic group. Western civilisation, as Yaron Brook defines it, is simply a set of ideas. And so the discussion really is focused around whether a particular set of ideas are dying in the West.

Whether you agree on it or not, it's just a discussion amongst two interesting people, that's all.


Stro

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #218 on: October 06, 2018, 02:52:38 PM »
If you could throw a "bloody" somewhere in there, I'd swear that's a Daddy P quote.

Raist

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #219 on: October 06, 2018, 03:01:30 PM »
I can't think of any "western idea" that is dying. But then again I can't be arsed to watch the video.

Anyway



Dantizzinel

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #220 on: October 10, 2018, 02:20:33 PM »
\m/

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #221 on: October 17, 2018, 02:33:44 PM »

agrajag

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #222 on: October 17, 2018, 09:49:37 PM »



eat shit Bowsette fans

Raist

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #223 on: October 22, 2018, 04:25:21 PM »

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #224 on: October 23, 2018, 12:01:50 PM »

Rahxephon91

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #225 on: October 24, 2018, 01:56:15 PM »


Well this hit home.

Atramental

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #226 on: October 28, 2018, 06:01:00 PM »

toku

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #227 on: October 29, 2018, 01:18:36 PM »

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #228 on: October 31, 2018, 12:04:08 PM »

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #229 on: November 02, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #230 on: November 02, 2018, 03:21:47 PM »


Basically to sum up this video, he is dismissing the anti-SJW narrative as a kind of caricature that isn't true. Over exaggerated maybe. Nothing really substantive to video other than his opinion of the Anti-SJW crowd. The same thing is said from both sides. Maybe there is some truth to it maybe there isn't. Maybe they are mischaracterising what people on other side are saying, maybe they aren't. Fine.

One thing I object to though -- me personally, maybe others see the dangers in it -- is the problematising of certain viewpoints, particular ones that steer from the current orthodoxy. So I have heard said for instance that the more 'so-called' moderate anti-SJW types are a kind of gateway drug to more extreme viewpoints. He states that the Youtube study does not claim the anti-SJW crowd are directly linked to the far-right, fine, but at the same time the study is in someway linking their viewpoints as potentially the beginning to the radicalisation process that may ultimately desensitise people to more extreme ideas. There may be some truth to it. Some people may have started with the more moderate version of certain views that progressed into believing more extreme views.

Absolutely everyone can play that game though. Black lives Matter rhetoric resulted in someone getting a gun and killing 5 police officers. Kill all white men, again maybe we should call for censoring that kind of rhetoric just in case someone takes it seriously and starts killing white men. Equating words with violence might mean someone responds to words with violence.

Ultimately the end result would be controversial opinions simply aren't aired because potentially someone somewhere may come to extreme conclusions about whatever subject is aired. The things is, there might be some truth to what is being said, and it might be important to say it. At some point you have to just say you are not responsible for other people's actions. The responsiblity rests on them. The alternative is nothing gets said.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 03:29:47 PM by Leadbelly »

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #231 on: November 02, 2018, 03:38:05 PM »
This video is adressing people who may fall down these holes, not advocating to erase all outlying opinions. I thought that was pretty clear.

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #232 on: November 02, 2018, 03:49:32 PM »
This video is adressing people who may fall down these holes, not advocating to erase all outlying opinions. I thought that was pretty clear.

The Youtube study was brought up. That is what I was commenting on. He starts by saying they didn't read the full study and that it wasn't claiming they were far-right. He then say he doesn't entirely agree with the conclusions, but then to some degree he does agree with them.


Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #233 on: November 02, 2018, 04:00:43 PM »
And I was adressing your slippery slope argument. :idont

Leadbelly

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #234 on: November 02, 2018, 04:19:47 PM »
And I was adressing your slippery slope argument. :idont

You know, some people use 'slippery slope' almost in a derogatory sense. It can be a fallacy. However, there is a potential for some things to become a slippery slope and it isn't irrational to point that out.

That said, I wasn't even making a slippery slope argument. I was objecting to the problematising of certain viewpoints, in this case associating moderate views with more extreme ones. As if one can potentially lead to the other. And it is not so much whether that can occur, it probably can and has occured, it is simply that there is either some truth in an opinion or there isn't. And someone airing such opinions should not be held responsible for someone making extreme conclusions out of it. That said, sure, airing extreme opinions and someone making extreme conclusions is somewhat different.

The question is how do you deal with that? Do you call for people to tone down their rhetoric? Do you call for companies like Youtube to censor certain opinions?

I am simply stating that I think that would be the wrong decision to make.

Rufus

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #235 on: November 02, 2018, 04:38:58 PM »
Your concerns are noted and forwarded to the relevant authorities.

Don't leave the country.

Dantizzinel

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #236 on: November 02, 2018, 08:46:51 PM »


This was a good video, thanks for linking it.
\m/

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #237 on: November 03, 2018, 09:22:48 PM »
NtGay

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #238 on: November 03, 2018, 10:04:49 PM »


I actually wanted to make a thread about ContraPoints because I’m really started to like her videos.

I agree with 99.9% of her argument, but I dislike how “non-binary” people are lumped together with trans people. Seems the entire basis of her argument is that if you saw a trans woman in a restaurant, and you believe she’s a woman, than you would call her “she”. I agree with this argument and I feel like Ben Shapiro and his fans gloss over this point a lot. We don’t use pronouns based on biology, but based on their societal functions. However, how do otherkin and the like fit into this equation? We don’t have a societal norm for what genderqueer is, or what both genders at once are. It pretty much contradicts everything she said about recognizing trans people being recognized for how most people perceive. She’s failed to make an argument for why there are more than 2 genders.

(Didn’t watch like the last 5 mins of the video so Idk if she explains it later on but still)

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Long video discussion thread that isn't shit
« Reply #239 on: November 03, 2018, 10:22:09 PM »
Nonbinary people fall under the 'Don't be an ass gibbon' for me and I think her.  I don't care if there are more than 2 genders.  If someone wants me to call them something thats fine.  I'm also not going out of my way to ask people their preferred pronouns.  However, if that was the social norm, I'd be fine with it.  In general, whatever makes people feel more comfortable in their own skin is a good thing, and it doesn't really need to be based on any kind of agreement to how many genders there are. 
NtGay