Scarlett Johansson and that lgqbt role

[Cerveza mas fina]

Like isnt the best actor supposed to get the part

Isnt that what equality is about

[Mandark]

Like isnt the best actor supposed to get the part

Also a good reason not to cast her.

[I'm a Puppy!]

we see you. you nazi!

[Cerveza mas fina]

Didnt Hillary Swank get a Oscar nomination for playing a trans?

Like isnt the best actor supposed to get the part

Also a good reason not to cast her.

Fight me

[Joe Molotov]

Didn't James Baskett get an Academy Award for playing Uncle Remus in Song of the South?

[Himu]

What is with lager and trans people?

Tbh I don’t give a fuck about the role. It doesn’t impact my life in any way. I don’t find being trans like race. It isn’t an inherent physical characteristic. This is like a straight man playing a gay man to me. I’d much rather have trans actors and actresses to play non trans roles. But I realize this isn’t an ideal world. That said I find it funny how ScarJo has had two roles in recent years of her playing characters that either whitewash or does something else to piss off a minority community. I’m just here to laugh at ScarJo memes tbqh

[Tasty]

Google Assistant or Alexa should have been cast in Her. #JusticeForAIs

[thisismyusername]

Didnt Hillary Swank get a Oscar nomination for playing a trans?

Like isnt the best actor supposed to get the part

Also a good reason not to cast her.

Fight me

Yes, but at the same time that time was different (less Transexual Actors/Actresses). There's nothing inherently wrong with women taking a mans (or vice-versa as that's older with theater) role. The problem was 1) there's plenty of transexual actor/esses that could fit that role now and 2) ScarJo already had whitewashing controversy with Ghost in the Shell. So...

[Huff]

there's plenty of transexual actor/esses that could fit that role now

i don't follow Hollywood enough to know. is this actually true?

[Cerveza mas fina]

Think Cindi is right here, this isnt like a white person playing a black person

It just reeks of sjw drama

[Cerveza mas fina]

there's plenty of transexual actor/esses that could fit that role now

i don't follow Hollywood enough to know. is this actually true?

No

I cant even name one

[thisismyusername]

there's plenty of transexual actor/esses that could fit that role now

i don't follow Hollywood enough to know. is this actually true?

Lavern Cox in Orange is the New Black is an instant one off the top of my head.

"Hollywood" may be too broad, since that's "AAA" (ugh) acting/movies in general. But smaller parts? There's enough there (especially in theater I think. I'd have to look deeper to actually know) that they could cast these folks for these roles.

I mean conversely: Racial roles have been a problem in Hollywood/movies for a LONG LONG LONG while, so why is Lager targeting this hoopla when he didn't make a "ScarJo and that GitS role" thread when that was blowing up? There's plenty of Asian actors/actresses out there. Just like there's plenty of black actors/actresses for certain roles. But Hollywood won't cast a lot of them (Will Smith and Denzel Washington being the two off the top of my head that get a lot of roles but no new actors/actresses "breaking" in like white straight [or gay] men/women).

I guess to put it another way: Yes, BUT they aren't introduced because the guild (or whatever) doesn't want to hire them for these roles. So they can't "break into the scene." It's a chicken and egg situation.

I mean there's that one deaf girl that was in "A Quiet Place" (and another major film) for disabled actors/actresses, but outside of that? Could you honestly tell me a deaf/blind (whichever) or another disabled actor/actress that IS NOT the one woman from "Switched at Birth" (the TV show on ABC family, not sure if that's still running)?

That's the problem. Casting folks that have lived the experience or are that role/gender/whatever isn't done. They rather hire able-boded/cisgender/white people for these roles because that's "what sells."

[Tasty]

The weird thing about the GitS thing is it would have been fine (who was freaking out that Light was white in Death Note Netflix?) but they pulled some Psylocke shit and said she was originally Asian. Because... reasons?

Even then I don't see it as a big deal personally. Translating properties from other cultures means localizing it for the new market.

Now, white-washing or whatever when adapting American properties into an American movie is much more of a fine line IMO. The Ancient One in Doctor Strange, for instance. I was still OK with that because who's to say there can't be multiple Ancient Ones, and Tilda Swinton is fantastic, but that easily could have turned out much worse.

[Himu]

there's plenty of transexual actor/esses that could fit that role now

i don't follow Hollywood enough to know. is this actually true?

There is.

Think Cindi is right here, this isnt like a white person playing a black person

It just reeks of sjw drama

I wouldn’t entirely say that I’m right because they raise a good point about representation. I’m just not down with being mad about shit every hour/day/week so I’m just kind of over it and just coasting even if I admit that I understand both viewpoints.

[Cerveza mas fina]

That's the problem. Casting folks that have lived the experience or are that role/gender/whatever isn't done. They rather hire able-boded/cisgender/white people for these roles because that's "what sells."

Wow are you somehow implying capitalism obstructs art?

[thisismyusername]

That's the problem. Casting folks that have lived the experience or are that role/gender/whatever isn't done. They rather hire able-boded/cisgender/white people for these roles because that's "what sells."

Wow are you somehow implying capitalism obstructs art?

Not at all. But Hollywood is so risk-averse now (why do you think there's Marvel film #2903490284023840239840923849023804983209483209840923 over Indie Film #90238049832094823098423098420398409238420?), that they'd rather NOT try to cast for roles with newer actors/actresses than do so.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Thank god we have Star Wars to cast unkowns still

[Cerveza mas fina]

Thank you all for your replies now I can sleep knowing that even Cindisnt outraged so it really is a complete non issue

[Tasty]

Laverne Cox is the best part of OitNB.

[thisismyusername]

In any case, this is a dumb debate and I don't know why I'm even bothering with you Lager since you're in Poland.

1) Women/men being casted for the other genders roles has been done since the 1700's (or even earlier) so this isn't the problem.
2) The problem has been: Casting for roles that fit a certain "profile" that have actor(s) that have that experience but don't get casted because of fear of a box-office failure/worrying about the bottom line.
3) There was nothing wrong with ScarJo being casted in GitS (beyond the whitewashing them trying to justify it in the film) or here, the problem was: There's actor(s) out there that could fit the Asian (GitS) or transexual (here) role that are those things, but Hollywood was too lazy to bother looking for those folks before casting.

Consequentially, there's a Youtube video or whatever that had Lavern Cox and like 1-2 other transexual actors/actresses talking about this whole thing. Maybe look into that if you actually want to learn.

[Nintex]

I'm glad they made Tropic Thunder when they did. They couldn't have made it today.

[CatsCatsCats]

Should we make Sean Penn give his Oscar back for Milk, too?

[Himu]

The weird thing about the GitS thing is it would have been fine (who was freaking out that Light was white in Death Note Netflix?) but they pulled some Psylocke shit and said she was originally Asian. Because... reasons?

Even then I don't see it as a big deal personally. Translating properties from other cultures means localizing it for the new market.

Now, white-washing or whatever when adapting American properties into an American movie is much more of a fine line IMO. The Ancient One in Doctor Strange, for instance. I was still OK with that because who's to say there can't be multiple Ancient Ones, and Tilda Swinton is fantastic, but that easily could have turned out much worse.

I can agree with this.

At the same time I and others see the major as Asian so I’d personally have a problem with it as a fan.

On the flip side we have a popular trend of making famous characters black or whatever. Nah. Michael B Jordan playing Johnny Storm? Nah. I grew up on Johnny Storm being a white blonde. To me it’s like taking Peter Parker and making him black. Peter Parker is white to me. A black Peter Parker isn’t a thing unless it’s for cosplay. Just make a new character. They nailed it with Miles Morales and Kamala Khan. Have the old hero retire or die or move on to a different hero and let someone else take the mantle but be their own character. Changing the race is lacking in mental fortitude.

It’s different for a character like Bond imo. Bond is hinted as being a code name so him being black is fine to me. At the same time. I’d rather have a legit black director just make a film that’s 007 like in its aspirations starring a black character that is a direct competitor to 007. That way you get your own franchise in the end. Because Bond will go back to being white eventually.

Basically, if you’re going to change a characters race you might as well make a new character. Which is a far better use of representation than forcing us to try to beleive a character we’ve known our entire life has melanin.

[Tasty]

Buffy reboot starring a black lead

Buffyverse sequel starring an all-new Slayer who happens to be black

[Mandark]

Nobody cares about Johnny Storm.

[Himu]

Buffy reboot starring a black lead

Buffyverse sequel starring an all-new Slayer who happens to be black

Exactly. Black Buffy? Kiss my ass.

Now a new slayer series with a black slayer?



Representation should matter. Because in my mind? Buffy will always be white.

People would rather placate minorities and turn a cherished character another color rather than invest and create a minority character that has a legacy as strong as that character they want to black wash. Small minds. I don’t got time for that small time mess.

[Mandark]

Serious question: does black Nick Fury bother you?

[Great Rumbler]

hey guys what about black james bond

[Himu]

Nope. Didn’t know who nick fury even was because I was all about dat manga, boy. I didn’t read American comics much growing up. And it doesn’t change that I find it unnecessary.

Diggle wasn’t a character in Green Arrow until the show came up with him on Arrow. Now he became so integral to the show they introduced him in the comic. Now he’s part of the story like any other Green Arrow character without changing anyone’s race.

Creatively, just changing a characters race for “representation” might be among the most lazy creative decision you could make. Making a new character that’s a minority that’s so iconic they’re now part of the formula tho? Takes more risk, creativity, and vision.

Fuck artistic laziness.

[Assimilate]

Why not, they did it to Othello

black james bond in the middle of Moscow.... i wonder who the spy is   

[Mandark]

What about hot Aunt May?

[Himu]

Another thing about black washing: if it bombs they can always turn back the clock, pretend it never happened, and make Batman white again. There goes your representation. It just reset and now you’ve got one less black character.

Compared to: making a black Batman like character at the outset and have them star in their own comic. Even if it bombs, they can put the character in another comic and he or she will still be the same character. You still have representation.

DC got it right with Batgirl and Batwoman. Thor has been female before but we all know female Thor will revert to old male Thor eventually. Not the case for Batwoman. She will never be replaced. She is her own character.

If I worked on a project and they wanted me to make a known white character black I would outright refuse.

[Assimilate]

Another thing about black washing: if it bombs they can always turn back the clock, pretend it never happened, and make Batman white again. There goes your representation. It just reset and now you’ve got one less black character.

Compared to: making a black Batman like character at the outset and have them star in their own comic. Even if it bombs, they can put the character in another comic and he or she will still be the same character. You still have representation.

DC got it right with Batgirl and Batwoman. Thor has been female before but we all know female Thor will revert to old male Thor eventually. Not the case for Batwoman. She will never be replaced. She is her own character.

If I worked on a project and they wanted me to make a known white character black I would outright refuse.

This SJW agenda has pretty much destroyed comics.

You fucks will destroy everything you touch, but as long as it sticks to pop culture garbage i'm ok with it. Destroy it all i say.

[Mandark]

If I worked on a project and they wanted me to make a known white character black I would outright refuse.

[Himu]

If I worked on a project and they wanted me to make a known white character black I would outright refuse.

Forgot to say

* - as long as I still have a job

[Himu]

Another thing about black washing: if it bombs they can always turn back the clock, pretend it never happened, and make Batman white again. There goes your representation. It just reset and now you’ve got one less black character.

Compared to: making a black Batman like character at the outset and have them star in their own comic. Even if it bombs, they can put the character in another comic and he or she will still be the same character. You still have representation.

DC got it right with Batgirl and Batwoman. Thor has been female before but we all know female Thor will revert to old male Thor eventually. Not the case for Batwoman. She will never be replaced. She is her own character.

If I worked on a project and they wanted me to make a known white character black I would outright refuse.

This SJW agenda has pretty much destroyed comics.

You fucks will destroy everything you touch, but as long as it sticks to pop culture garbage i'm ok with it. Destroy it all i say.

I disagree. Kamala Khan is one of the best and most refreshing comic characters in generations.

My problem is short term solutions that are band-aids.

[Mandark]

Among other things, I think you're not considering the differences in movie/TV/comic production.

Take the last F4 movie. It's all well and good to say it would be better to gradually develop a new black character rather than recast Johnny Storm, but Fox didn't have that option. Marvel wasn't about to sell them the rights to any more characters, and certainly wasn't going to invest in creating and promoting new ones on their behalf. So if you want Michael B. Jordan in your movie you can either cast him in a character who's been drawn as white, or try to sell the studio execs on "The Fantastic Four and Their Good Friend Brandon."

[kingv]

Re: ghost in the shell. In the actual anime/manga the Android body is white, right? Just the spirit or mind or whatever is Japanese, I think?

If true it’s even funnier she gets shit for whitewashing because it’s actually accurate to the source material.
Edit: reddit tells me it’s axually open to interpretation as to what she is supposed to look like and is never explicitly defined as looking as a certain race.


Can’t wait for an American attack on titan movie where only that one girl is cast as Asian... even though she is the only Asian in the whole show.

[Himu]

Where I’m sitting, I hear this at a creative meeting,”our last fantastic four didn’t do so well. What should we do?”

“Make a good movie?”

“Too hard. How about...we make one of the characters black?!”

“That’d cause so much controversy and attention, do it! If the movie doesn’t do well we can always make them white in the next movie.”



Why not just make a good F4 movie?

[Mandark]

They had to choose between making a good movie or casting a black guy. That's exactly how that went.

[Himu]

Also I’m specifically only talking about major characters here. Really minor characters though? Who cares?

[Mandark]

It's just weird to think of Johnny Storm's pigmentation being untouchable when they straight replaced him with H.E.R.B.I.E. in the cartoon.

[Tasty]

Nobody cares about Johnny Storm.

DC has an even more hilarious example: Wally West. Except black reboot Wally became so different from the old one, they had to bring white Wally back in Rebirth. So now DC has two Wally Wests running around: one white twentysomething and one black teenager. That's an inventive way to hit multiple demographics with the "same" character I guess.

I didn't think of this much before but I definitely prefer what Cindi's saying: make a new character. Hell, they could have erased old Wally and introduced "Willy West" or some shit. But no, this is the new Wally guys!! ...even though Wally existed for like 30 years already and had been The Flash to an entire generation of comic readers (including everyone who watched the DCAU Justice League cartoon.)

@DC:

[Himu]

They had to choose between making a good movie or casting a black guy. That's exactly how that went.

Have you seen those movies?

[Mandark]

Are you gonna tell me the movies with the white Johnny Storm were good?

Cause I would not know how to respond to that.

[Kara]

I didn't really give a shit when I watched the Ghost in the Shell movie, but I remember it touching on the Major's actual ethnicity and the destruction of it to give us Major Scar was treated as a wrong that was done to her.

In Stand Alone Complex they don't even dive into that until the Individual Eleven storyline has overstayed its welcome.

[Nintex]

Sometimes stuff looks out of place like a one token Chinese guy in some generic action movie because their profits depend on the cinema release in China.
Next to that there was the horribly miscast Ghost busters reboot and Star Wars: The Last Jedi which gave a big role to a shitty actress and let the good actress die in the first 15 minutes or so. 

Other than that I've never been bothered by race/gender casting decisions. Nick Fury is portrayed by a good actor.
Ghost in the Shell was a decent movie and Scarlett played it well. Those decisions should be made by the film makers.

[Himu]

Back on the ScarJo thing. My problems with it stems from:

1. If it’s a trans woman they’re played by a man; a trans man, played by a woman. It’s so shady. As if to say,”you’re a man so we will have a man play you.”

2. Lees roles for trans actors/actresses

Beyond that though....

[Great Rumbler]

I didn't really give a shit when I watched the Ghost in the Shell movie, but I remember it touching on the Major's actual ethnicity and the destruction of it to give us Major Scar was treated as a wrong that was done to her.

In Stand Alone Complex they don't even dive into that until the Individual Eleven storyline has overstayed its welcome.

Yeah, that part of the storyline was basically about how the evil megacorp nearly killed her and then went ahead and completely wiped out her previous life, making her into something that they could use and more easily control.

Which is also pretty much Robocop.

[Assimilate]

Back on the ScarJo thing. My problems with it stems from:

1. If it’s a trans woman they’re played by a man; a trans man, played by a woman. It’s so shady. As if to say,”you’re a man so we will have a man play you.”

2. Lees roles for trans actors/actresses

Beyond that though....

Better off just not making any movies about trans people. Less hassle, problem solved.

[Tasty]

Back on the ScarJo thing. My problems with it stems from:

1. If it’s a trans woman they’re played by a man; a trans man, played by a woman. It’s so shady. As if to say,”you’re a man so we will have a man play you.”

2. Lees roles for trans actors/actresses

Beyond that though....

Better off just not making any movies about trans people. Less hassle, problem solved.

[Himu]

Back on the ScarJo thing. My problems with it stems from:

1. If it’s a trans woman they’re played by a man; a trans man, played by a woman. It’s so shady. As if to say,”you’re a man so we will have a man play you.”

2. Lees roles for trans actors/actresses

Beyond that though....

Better off just not making any movies about trans people. Less hassle, problem solved.

Well, no. 

Because:

1. A movie about trans people still allows further trans acceptance
2. Brokeback Mountain was played by two straight dudes and did the above.
3. How do we know they’re not trans? Like I said, trans doesn’t have a visual qualifier like race. It’s mental. ScarJo might be a closeted trans man. We don’t know. And we’d feel like assholes if she ever revealed that fact.

And this is why I don’t give a shit. Because I understand both sides and time is spent being concerned about other things.

[benjipwns]

What about hot Aunt May?

Tony Stark hitting on current Aunt May

Tony Stark hitting on old and dying from unnamed disease (it's oldness) Aunt May

[Assimilate]

3. trans doesn’t have a visual qualifier like race. It’s mental. ScarJo might be a closeted trans man. We don’t know. And we’d feel like assholes if she ever revealed that fact.

I agree Cindi, it definitely is mental.

[Himu]

I’ve maintained that it is a mental disorder so I don’t think you know that I’m not triggered by your comment you hateful plebeian.

[Assimilate]

I’ve maintained that it is a mental disorder so I don’t think you know that I’m not triggered by your comment you hateful plebeian.

oh good then. we agree. kisses 

[Himu]

Try it bb. I am not an uwu.

[Tasty]

This is the shittiest heel team-up since Venom and Sandman in Spider-Man 3.

[Himu]

I’ve maintained that it is a mental disorder so I don’t think you know that I’m not triggered by your comment you hateful plebeian.

oh good then. we agree. kisses 

I’m not sure we do agree.

You: trans is a mental illness. You are a man.

Me: if you demedicalize being trans, insurance companies will have no reason to provide trans care because the uWu’s  will have made it not a medical problem but a social one. Thereby no longer giving insurance companies the need to help pay for life saving medicine which will make almost every trans commit mass suicide. Another short term solution to a larger problem to make sjws feel better.

[benjipwns]

how did they know the movie was bad before they even cast one of the actors?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

and then reshot half of it with another wearing a bad wig to where it no longer even makes sense

[close]