The rings = health system in Sonic the Hedgehog is fucking stupid

[Tasty]

Prove me wrong.

[Tasty]

Like no wonder they had to up the boss battles to 8+ hits when you can regain the same ring ad infinitum.

[Tasty]

Look how fucking terrible the music is when Sonic has seven rings in hand.

[Nintex]

You can find the answer on Pumpkin Hill.



 

[demi]

Sonic buttrock > Mario wah wah

[Tasty]

Sonic buttrock > Mario wah wah

This is 100% true. But I don't think anyone's complained about Sonic music not being great.



Remixes too

[Nintex]

 

[Tasty]

I guess if people complain about the music in a specific game of the series, it's more pointing out that it doesn't live up to the rest.

The same can't really be said about the gameplay, which has been and continues to be all over the place.

[Great Rumbler]

[Tasty]

(Image removed from quote.)

I heard the sound effect

[Cryo]

 

Bioware

[Himu]

Rings are a bad mechanic.

It is known.

Reasons Sonic is shit:

1. Sonic's basic premise was to go fast.
2. They need a mechanic to allow you to continue going fast.
3. Rings are that mechanic.
4. Rings allow infinite chances. As long as the timer doesn't run out and you don't get hit at 0 rings, you can win.
5. This means that getting hit isn't an impediment because you can always double back and grab some more rings.
6. Essentially, gameplay loop of Sonic is learning the level layouts to the point where you can get over obstacles unimpeded so you can continue gathering rings and maintaining speed unimpeded.
7. For this reason the games have almost nothing in the way of challenge. After the learning the layouts, Sonic boils down to speed contests (beating your speed record in x amount of times) or challenges like collecting the chaos emeralds.

But...

A. Sonic Bonus Stages are all crap.
B. Beating times isn't enough to carry the franchise.

As it is, Sonic is empty and without depth. It isn't like Mega Man, which allows more replayability. Play Air Man's stage like I do, landing on the edges of these platforms that are tiny, teeny pixels. That takes motor skill and practice.

Or topping world 8 in Mario 3.

This is subjective but Sonic simply does not reward good play like others games of its era does. It's boring.  I played the shit out of Sonic 1-3 and Knuckles and the occasional enemy placement I forgot about, I know them like the back of my hand. Where my reward for playing well? It doesn't feel rewarding. Not like Mega Man. Not like Mario. Not like Shinobi. Not like Rocket Knight Adventures, Ristar, Castlevania.

A big part of this ties into the ring system. As a health mechanic, it's shit. Sonic would be better either with an energy bar like Mega Man or something else. But Sonic fans say they don't like this because it would ruin what Sonic is about to them, which is basically looking stylish and going fast while bouncing on enemies. Sonic fans are below Earthworm Jim and Bubsy fans in terms of the platformer genre. Sonic will always be beholden to the idea of having to go fast. Because of that, the games are limited in the scope of the levels they can achieve. Sonic is a gimmick.

In terms of 2d platformers, which I'm pretty adept at and I'm knowledgeable about, Sonic is bottom tier for me and yet Sonic was like a religion for me from 1992-1996.

Here's a video of me playing Sonic 2 and Rockman 2.



It includes the aforementioned pixel platforming. I haven't played either in a long time. To be fair, I did both of these with an xbox 360 controller d-pad which isn't the best for both games and the emulation made some controls spotty, floating, and laggy. Rockman 2 I haven't played in....7 years? Air man is the first stage I go to. Both are about style but in a different manner. Sonic's style in Chemical Plant is all flash. The style in Mega Man is all ME. Granted, I couldn't beat Air Man. It's been a while and I forgot his pattern. But that's the point. One is a challenge. The other is entirely brainless. Under normal play circumstances, I can clear Air Man with no hit with the p shot in that manner. That? That is style. That's also rewarding. There is nothing rewarding in Sonic's basic gameplay. One time I'm hit in Chemical Plant but it's ok. I recover and get like 70 rings out of nowhere. What the fuck. But in Rockman? One hit could mean death as I'm knocked from a platform. Sonic allows bad play through bad platforming and the ring mechanic which allows infinite chances.

One is good.

The other sucks.

Sonic sucks and is fucking boring. It's a relic that should have stayed in the 90's.

Signed,

A former Sonic fan.

If it isn't obvious, I loved Sonic to death as a kid and it pains me I can't enjoy them anymore. Sky Chase Zone's music is enough to reduce me to tears.

[Great Rumbler]

ok

[Himu]

Sonic 2 - i'm on autopilot
Rockman 2 - it's on

i really don't remember how to fight air man with p shot. Gotta replay MM2 and get back in shape.

[Himu]

TBF to Sonic a lot of arguments against Sonic's design are........bad. A lot of the arguments boil down to,"in this game you hit things you don't know are there and are punished for it therefore it's bad." Welcome to platformers, dip shits. "Sonic wants you to go fast but you need to go slow to go through the levels. You have to memorize where the placement of the enemies are." Like every platformer, you fuck nut.

If you're going to disparage Sonic, have some gusto and depth to your criticisms.

[Positive Touch]

yall act like you never died in a sonic game foh

[Joe Molotov]

It's based on the American Heath Care system.

[Tasty]

It's based on the American Heath Care system.

[MMaRsu]

Why is it bad?

[Tasty]

Why is it bad?

Imagine a Sonic game with a health meter. Congrats, you just imagined a much better Sonic game.

[paprikastaude]

Could always be worse aka Yoshi's Island crying baby. 

Also, Sonic Mania >>>>> all sidescrolling Mario, Yoshi, Kirby and whatever platformers after like 2010 (not Rayman though).

[Tasty]

Why is it bad?

Imagine a Sonic game with a health meter. Congrats, you just imagined Sonic 06

FTFY

Woosh.

[Himu]

The main issue I take with sonic is that nothing ever matters. I get hit? Who cares. I can take a cannon or pipe or some short cut that cuts the level in half. The only bad thing is that you lose momentum which isn’t much of a deterrent. Sonic fans say that it’s all about speed running but that limits the appeal of sonic to a specific and select group of people. And you have to enjoy sonic enough to speed run and do time trials with it in the first place. And because of the design being based around momentum a lot of the time, Sonic stages are relatively obstacle free compared to other platformers since aside from the original Sonic - which is less popular than other classic Sonic games - is more about reaching the goal instead of platforming obstacles.

The ring system is just another aspect of Sonic breeding apathy. Aside from die hard Sonic fans why should anyone want to improve in the game? And improve upon what exactly?

A game like Mega Man has tangible goals because every level is one big obstacle course and you need to master it to get past it. In Sonic what is there to master? Oh, learn there’s a pit there, or a spike here. But does it reward mastery? No.

Look at this clip of Sonic from Sonic Adventure. There’s barely any obstacles or any actual platforming challenge. It’s basically just a time trial and doing it as fast as possible.

 

Compared to



With Mega Man we exchange strategies and shit so we can get through the game with just the p shot without getting hit.

I’ve never seen that kind of game mastery from a sonic game. It’s so focused on being this open ended sandbox platformer that tight platforming challenges, execution, puzzle solving and everything else that makes platformers fun is missing.

Can anyone provide me a clip of sonic that show sonic takes as much skill as other platformers and breeds a game design environment to allow such mastery to foster? Because I can’t.

This is entirely subjective but I don’t give a fuck about time trials if I find the core game boring. What makes time trials and challenges fun is if the game is already good enough that it makes the challenges even better. Like a three heart Zelda run for instance. Or hero mode in Zelda 1.

I just don’t get that from Sonic. It just appears and plays to be the most shallow of the major mascot games that still exist today.

[Himu]

Shit, you don’t even have to bring mega man into this. Let’s just keep it to Mario. Count how many enemies are in that stage above. Where are the obstacles?

Sonic fucking blows (to me).



Obstacles, tight platforming, enemies, hazards, tight execution, mastery. Platforming. Sonic is not a good platformer.

I’m really trying to find the appeal of Sonic. I just don’t see it.

[Great Rumbler]

You don't like it. That's fine. Other people do. *shrug*

[Tasty]

All this thread does is make me really want a Sonic Mania 2.

We all know Sega isn't that smart. You're getting Sonic Forces 2 and liking it.

[headwalk]

Look how fucking terrible the music is when Sonic has seven rings in hand.

i paid full price for that game when i was still in early "the wii is shit" denial.

worst game i've ever bought. i include in that broken pieces of borderline malware from eastern european publishers.

[Tasty]

I loved Secret Rings when it came out, tried playing it a few years later and literally couldn't. The game is barely playable until you unlock all the upgrades, which is only at like the final level.

Also should have had analogue stick support and less recycled content.

[Tasty]

It had some kind of power bar for special attacks.

Also, Sonic 2006 didn't have a health bar either. Same rings = health system as the rest.

[Joe Molotov]

Game Grumps playing Secret Rings and Black Knight was hilarious, especially Black Knight when Arin kept dying in the same spot for like 4 episodes in a row and losing his mind.

[Nintex]

Sonic Secret Rings was ok. Not great but not bad either and quite enjoyable.

Sonic and the Black Knight was a mess from start to finish.

Sonic 06 is the stuff of legends. Not sure how that passed certification. 

[Momo]

I disagree and i'm putting you on a list Tasty.

[Tasty]

Sonic Secret Rings was ok. Not great but not bad either and quite enjoyable.

Sonic and the Black Knight was a mess from start to finish.

Sonic 06 is the stuff of legends. Not sure how that passed certification. 

Almost at the end of my Sonic 06 LP rewatch and I completely agree. The game straight up crashes, 12% of the gameplay is loading times (a goon actually calculated), the straight up mess that is the physics engine... hoooooooly shit, someone's head should have rolled for this. Or an entire team's...

[Himu]

Let former Smilebit current Yakuza team develop Sonic.

Take Jet Set Radio. Make it a bit faster. Keep the momentum platforming. Replace cans with rings. JSRF open ended world design. You've now got the best 3d Sonic.

I've been saying it since 2005 when I first played JSRF and yet Sega has done nothing despite the fact that JSR and to a greater extent, JSRF, are THE best template for 3d Sonic.



Look at this shit. The dude is wearing red right? Pretend he's Knuckles and that's a Sonic game.

This is fucking obvious shit.

[Don Rumata]

I never understood Sonic, tbh.
You're supposed to run super fast, but the camera is looking AT Sonic, so you can essentially see, like, 5 meters in front of you, and 5 meters back, so you're bound to constantly run into shit and stop.
Are you really just supposed to play until you remember the layout of the level perfectly? At least the 3d games had you look forward, despite being essentially on rails.
In Super Mario you run slower, and the camera is pulled further back, so it's a bit easier to keep a good flow.
Again, i'm not sure i get it.

[Tasty]

Yet Iizuka AKA Snaggletooth was promoted as the head of Sonic Team and has the first say on everything to do with the series still. Sega don't curr

And just when they were getting their Act () together again, boom: Sonic Boom (), Lost World and Forces. Like come on guys.

At least Mania was good.

[Himu]

I never understood Sonic, tbh.
You're supposed to run super fast, but the camera is looking AT Sonic, so you can essentially see, like, 5 meters in front of you, and 5 meters back, so you're bound to constantly run into shit and stop.
Are you really just supposed to play until you remember the layout of the level perfectly? At least the 3d games had you look forward, despite being essentially on rails.
In Super Mario you run slower, and the camera is pulled further back, so it's a bit easier to keep a good flow.
Again, i'm not sure i get it.

Yes you’re supposed to memorize the layout.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1070763197752201216