Fuck it. I'm switching to Android

[Human Snorenado]

What's so great about Pixel?

1) it runs stock android, no bloatware and unnecessary shit
2) the camera software is hands down the best

I actually like OnePlus's Oxygen OS android skin better than stock android, it's very close and only adds a few improvements

Pixels were not gross looking through Pixel/XL 2 but have gotten progressively more awful lately, total eyesores

[Himu]

I have concerns owning a phone made by Google though. What's the security/privacy like on it?

[Human Snorenado]

I have concerns owning a phone made by Google though. What's the security/privacy like on it?

 

Oh honey. You're fucked no matter what you buy. Just accept it.

That said you can customize your settings, read this I guess.

https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/283944-how-to-preserve-your-privacy-on-android

[Himu]

I have concerns owning a phone made by Google though. What's the security/privacy like on it?

 

Oh honey. You're fucked no matter what you buy. Just accept it.

This was a major reason I've stuck to Apple for years.

But is it bullshit?

https://hackernoon.com/apples-best-product-is-privacy-not-iphone-9919f5fc6fb7

vs

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/apples-hypocritical-defense-data-privacy/581680/

Tim refused to let Apple crack open that iphone publicly despite government mandate. So I always felt safe in their ecosystem.

But are they full of shit and is it all a ploy?

[Tasty]

Being against the U.S. government getting allowed to insert backdoors "just for them" into device firmware is the type of thing that, generally, everyone in the tech industry is against (and everyone at the FBI and the Trump Administration is for.)

PS- Please consider donating to the EFF if digital privacy is important to you.

[Kara]

The government still cracked it eventually in that case iirc. If you want to reward companies for not collaborating, sure, but their product isn't a one-time pad.

[Tasty]

The government still cracked it eventually in that case iirc. If you want to reward companies for not collaborating, sure, but their product isn't a one-time pad.

The FBI purchased a zero-day exploit from an Israeli blackhat-as-a-service firm, so they didn't need Apple's consent or collaboration and dropped the suit.

They were also probably getting understandably worried they'd lose the case, which is what I believe the outcome would have been, and that would have precluded them trying the same tactic in the future when they're really up shit creak without a paddle zero-day.

[Tasty]

It should be noted, that the iPhone model in question (iPhone 5c) lacked the considerably-stronger hardware encryption of subsequent models (the iPhone 6S, two generations newer, was the latest model at the time of the case.)

iPhones and iPads, the Pixel line (including the low-end Pixel 3a), and the Galaxy S10 offer secure enclaves for storing private keys, which Comey admitted at the time were strong enough to block the same exploitation method the FBI used on the San Bernadino shooter's iPhone 5c.

[Himu]

[Occam]

I have concerns owning a phone made by Google though. What's the security/privacy like on it?

You have no privacy when using Google products. That's why I prefer Samsung. Added bonus: Not a US company = the US government can't ask them ro build in any backdoors.
Hardware wise S10 is better than Pixel 3 in every regard.

[Himu]

How does Galaxy s10 camera compare to Pixel 3's?

edit:

[Occam]

S10 by far, but Pixel 3 has Google's magical picture enhancement software.

Edit: As you can see in the video, the S10 has much better dynamic range. Look at the image with the sun behind the clouds at 3:42.

[Tasty]

You have no privacy when using Google products. That's why I prefer Samsung.

A Pixel and a Galaxy S10 send roughly the same amount of information to Google by default, with the S10 having the additional benefit of sending your data to Samsung and their partners as well.

Added bonus: Not a US company = the US government can't ask them ro build in any backdoors.

This is also misguided. If the US government compelled Google to change Android in some way, that would affect every OEM that desires the Play Store on their devices.

We just went through a situation where the Trump administration just decided to shutdown a major Chinese OEM, and it basically happened over like, two weeks.

Samsung *could* activate their rumored, long-in-development contingency of forking Android without the Play Store, but that's an extreme move.

[Kara]

Samsung has (had?) a procurement deal with *Hans Gruber* the American FBI for phones and it's a matter of record that the CIA hacks other Samsung consumer electronics.

[Himu]

With the S10e having 4k video I'm going with that.

[Occam]

They both have 4k. However, S10 can film 4k at 24, 30 and 60fps, while Pixel 3 can only do 30fps.
S10 can do 1080p at 30, 60, 120 and 240fps, while Pixel 3 can only record 30fps. S10 has much better image stabilization when filming at 1080p.
The most important difference is the ultra wide angle 16 megapixel camera of the S10, which is fantastic for landscapes. S10 has 2x optical zoom, Pixel 3 doesn't.

[thisismyusername]

Added bonus: Not a US company = the US government can't ask them ro build in any backdoors.

No but the Koreans can.

This is why I laugh at folks that are so privacy focused: Unless you're building the hardware yourself, coding the operating system yourself, etc.: You should expect backdoors/etc. built into the product and should act accordingly.

[Occam]

Don't forget about building your own telecommunications infrastructure.
Well, there is only so much you can realistically do to protect your privacy as a private citizen.
I have no Google account, don't use gmail, google maps or google's youtube app. I hardly ever use Google's search engine, and when I do, I do it anonymously.

[Himu]

They both have 4k. However, S10 can film 4k at 24, 30 and 60fps, while Pixel 3 can only do 30fps.
S10 can do 1080p at 30, 60, 120 and 240fps, while Pixel 3 can only record 30fps. S10 has much better image stabilization when filming at 1080p.
The most important difference is the ultra wide angle 16 megapixel camera of the S10, which is fantastic for landscapes. S10 has 2x optical zoom, Pixel 3 doesn't.

I'm mostly getting it for the better camera in general.

[Human Snorenado]

You are gonna hate the samsung bloatware on your phone. Have fun with that.

Also anyone telling you that S10 has a better camera than the Pixel is full of shit and/or high.

[Himu]

I watched a video and s10 camera is better except at night and even then it's not a slouch. Can you get rid of the Samsung bloatware?

[Himu]

Also looking into One Plus.

[bork]

You are gonna hate the samsung bloatware on your phone. Have fun with that.

Also anyone telling you that S10 has a better camera than the Pixel is full of shit and/or high.

Yup yup yup x 1000

I had a Samsung Note 5 before I got the Pixel- the bloat SUCKED.  I had to use an app to go in and stop a number of their services from running, which helped with battery drain issues caused by their shit.  It certainly was a pretty phone and had 'flash' if that's your thing.  I had to turn off all this stuff to have an optimal experience and just didn't care in the end.

I watched a video and s10 camera is better except at night and even then it's not a slouch. Can you get rid of the Samsung bloatware?

There are ways to put stock Android OS on Samsung phones, but I don't know what that might do for updates and for any software they have which drives certain functions of the phones and/or if it would void your warranty.  Not something I'd mess with.  I wanted the most plain, bloat-free experience possible...and Pixel ticks all those boxes.  And again...it gets all the updates first regardless of who your carrier is. 

[Occam]

About the "bloatware":

[Himu]

About the "bloatware":

I don't trust anything this guy says because he's a dumbass that made a tech video in the middle of a loud venue.

[Tasty]

https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-39523

https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-39909

[Himu]

Google Pixel it is.

[Tripon]

I had a Samsung Galaxy S4 and that phone was a slow piece of shit. I will admit that Touchwiz (Samsung's android skin) seems way better today. Bloatware doesn't seem to be an issue on most new phones because even the cheaper phones seem to be able throw ram at the problem.

[Occam]

About the "bloatware":

I don't trust anything this guy says because he's a dumbass that made a tech video in the middle of a loud venue.

Yes, it's annoying but the video is actually pretty good, you should watch it if you want to learn about the so-called bloatware.
Personally, I consider many of Google's apps bloatware and disable them. On the other hand, some of Samsung's added features are pretty neat.

About the camera, watch this:


S10's camera hardware is objectively better.

[Himu]

I do prefer s10's camera. Its zoom and ultra wide lens are incredibly impressive.

It's really down to two those two phones. I'll visit T-Mobile and see how I like them but I'm leaning Google Pixel.

[Potato]

Save your cash and get a mid-range phone with Android One. Screw the flagships, waste of money.

[thisismyusername]

Don't forget about building your own telecommunications infrastructure.

At least everyone knows by now that telecoms are insecure. Big difference there.

Well, there is only so much you can realistically do to protect your privacy as a private citizen.

Sure, I agree. But going with "at least these Asians that aren't the Chinese get my data over the US and Russia!" seems...

I have no Google account, don't use gmail, google maps or google's youtube app. I hardly ever use Google's search engine, and when I do, I do it anonymously.

Good for you. Nobody else does that because it's a gigantic pain in the ass.

I also hope you don't use AWS (oh wait, that's about 80% of the web now) for the sake of your privacy as well.

Like, I'm all for InfoSec OPs and all that, but Jesus.

[Kara]

Knowing you're already on several FBI watch lists and being free to use the internet without worrying too much about your privacy.

[jorma]

Don't forget about building your own telecommunications infrastructure.

At least everyone knows by now that telecoms are insecure. Big difference there.

Well, there is only so much you can realistically do to protect your privacy as a private citizen.

Sure, I agree. But going with "at least these Asians that aren't the Chinese get my data over the US and Russia!" seems...

I have no Google account, don't use gmail, google maps or google's youtube app. I hardly ever use Google's search engine, and when I do, I do it anonymously.

Good for you. Nobody else does that because it's a gigantic pain in the ass.

I also hope you don't use AWS (oh wait, that's about 80% of the web now) for the sake of your privacy as well.

Like, I'm all for InfoSec OPs and all that, but Jesus.

I mean not really? Realistically the only government you need to worry about having your data is your own. In descending order i'd prefer the koreans, the russkies, the chinese, the muricans and the rest of the EU to have my data over the swedish government.

And for the record, I only care about this shit in theory - in reality i can't be arsed to care anyway near enough to have it influence my purchasing decisions.

[pilonv1]

Save your cash and get a mid-range phone with Android One. Screw the flagships, waste of money.

Xiaomi stuff is excellent too.

[Occam]

If you want the best value for money, get a flagship phone from 1-2 years ago.

[Potato]

If you want the best value for money, get a flagship phone from 1-2 years ago.

Why? Battery will be dead 1-2 years sooner.

The weak point in most phones these days is the battery. It's more likely to die before the hardware of even a mid-range phone is outdated.

[nudemacusers]

Knowing you're already on several FBI watch lists and being free to use the internet without worrying too much about your privacy.

Using iPhones for privacy while the government gets your entire personnel record hacked and sends you routine memos every few months announcing another PII leak

[Himu]

Guys I decided to go with Pixel 3a. It has zero money down at T-Mobile sans tax.

[Occam]

If you want the best value for money, get a flagship phone from 1-2 years ago.

Why? Battery will be dead 1-2 years sooner.

The weak point in most phones these days is the battery. It's more likely to die before the hardware of even a mid-range phone is outdated.

I didn't mean a used phone.

[Himu]

Are you privacy weirdos all pedos or something?

what the fuck

[Uncle]

fuck the "iF yOu'Re NoT dOiNg AnYtHiNg WrOnG tHeN yOu HaVe NoThInG tO hIdE" mentality

if you don't suspect me of doing anything wrong and/or don't want to exploit me for any reason then you have no reason to collect any of my information

there are plenty of reasons you might be wrongfully targeted by police and data from your phone or anything else could be used as circumstantial evidence against you

[Himu]

I just can't imagine being that freaked out about privacy unless you were doing something shady on the web.

Nobody really cares about you other than to target ads to you lol, get over yourselves.

fuck off

[brawndolicious]

I just can't imagine being that freaked out about privacy unless you were doing something shady on the web.

Nobody really cares about you other than to target ads to you lol, get over yourselves.

Advertising does bug me. I hate that a lot of current tech companies basically have to measure their value by how much influence they have on visitors/users through targeted advertising.

It's not just that it feels like exploiting the public, but that it forces companies to chase stupid activity metrics rather than increase their value to the customer.

[Tasty]

I just can't imagine being that freaked out about privacy unless you were doing something shady on the web.

Nobody really cares about you other than to target ads to you lol, get over yourselves.

So you agree with Eric Schmidt?

[Occam]

I am very grateful to billions of willing (or unwitting) advertising targets who pay for the web with their privacy, allowing me to retain my own privacy while enjoying an unending stream of information and services for free. You are the real heroes!

[bluemax]

Added bonus: Not a US company = the US government can't ask them ro build in any backdoors.

No but the Koreans can.

This is why I laugh at folks that are so privacy focused: Unless you're building the hardware yourself, coding the operating system yourself, etc.: You should expect backdoors/etc. built into the product and should act accordingly.

Or just assume your life is too mundane for anyone to care about.

[brawndolicious]

I just can't imagine being that freaked out about privacy unless you were doing something shady on the web.

Nobody really cares about you other than to target ads to you lol, get over yourselves.

Advertising does bug me. I hate that a lot of current tech companies basically have to measure their value by how much influence they have on visitors/users through targeted advertising.

It's not just that it feels like exploiting the public, but that it forces companies to chase stupid activity metrics rather than increase their value to the customer.

The web as we know it exists because of effective advertising targeting.

The alternative is charging money directly.

There wouldn't be advertising if you weren't likely to buy the stuff targeted at you. You do effectively pay for the free web sites and services you use, but in an indirect way.

From an economic standpoint, it's like comparing the efficiency of a horse to a car where there's a lot of waste going towards having to buy products in the ads in order to support the free sites. It's true that almost everything is currently based on the advertising model but I think it just holds back competition and progress.

[Potato]

I am very grateful to billions of willing (or unwitting) advertising targets who pay for the web with their privacy, allowing me to retain my own privacy while enjoying an unending stream of information and services for free. You are the real heroes!

Name some of these "free" services you're accessing without giving up any of your privacy or being subjected to ads?

[daemon]

What is privacy even. It's being happy to believe no one has intel on you, until the day you see they do. It's important to not allow companies get away with stealing data for nefarious deeds, but it's something else to side with a $999 monitor stand company that breaches the normal operative of a person being able to fix their electronics wherever they want. I believe that apple has helped mobile development tremendously, and I don't hate a loyal customer because they've probably had great experiences with them, but apple really isn't a consumer rights-friendly company.

Imagine being worried about privacy on your phone when you willingly post on The Bore with benji

Benji everytime a new user pops:

[brawndolicious]

It's true that almost everything is currently based on the advertising model but I think it just holds back competition and progress.

This is just an incredibly vague platitude though.  Without advertising they’d innovate ways to generate cash?  From where?  From who?

Competition and progress, that’s who!

Okay first off, I did not say the "I" word. I don't know what I did to receive that accusation, but I'm sorry.

My argument against advertising is just that the math doesn't make sense for consumers. If Google or Facebook or whoever make a $1 per click, then that's because you ended up clicking the ad and buying something that was much more than a $1. So that just seems wasteful from an economic perspective.

As far as alternatives, there are subscription models such as Spotify, where users in the paid tier don't have any ads or limitations. Another thing Spotify used to do is they had a peer-to-peer infrastructure which lowered their hosting burden. One option is to make that an opt-in type of thing to reduce your subscription cost but bandwidth wasn't the main cost Spotify had anyways.

One example I can think of is for Yelp. Currently, businesses pay to get higher on the page in the sponsored results section. An alternative is to pay for analysis and feedback on the important factors affecting their reviews (EG: a spedific waiter sucks or they did bait & switch on the price) so the business can figure out how to reduce their negatives. Yelp is the one that tracks how you flip through search results, which reviews you stop and spend more time reading, and ultimately which business you end up choosing based on pressing the button to get directions to the business. Obviously, that's more complicated than throwing an ad on the screen but at least it doesn't leave you vulnerable to a user figuring out how ublock is spelled.

[Himu]

Played with a pixel 3 at Best Buy. I really like this phone and its clean interface. Completely sold. 16 bucks a month, no down payment at Best Buy too. Will make the switch soon!

[bork]

 
 

[naff]

yeah, i have mild buyers remorse getting an S10e over a pixel 3. i previously had a nokia on android one, it was good but i smashed the screen and wanted something new. not a big fan of increasingly large form factors and really liked the S10e hardware, so i picked that up. it's good, samsungs hardware is great, feels like an iPhone XR without a giant notch at the top... but Bixby is a joke, and there are a lot of minor annoyances that bring it a step back from the stock Android experience. im enjoying it and i'll use it because i like the specs, form factor and overall hardware, but samsungs custom roll bloatware is shite still.

[Momo]

I just can't imagine being that freaked out about privacy unless you were doing something shady on the web.

2010 era facebook internet user galaxy brain take

[Transhuman]

I just can't imagine being that freaked out about privacy unless you were doing something shady on the web.

Nobody really cares about you other than to target ads to you lol, get over yourselves.

That is an immense form of control that can be used and exploited to shape and direct people's interests, habits and behaviours. Advertising may be an unavoidable evil, but the idea that the advertising being shown to you is based on an advertising profile that is based on you, specifically, as an individual should scare and anger any reasonable human being.

[VomKriege]

Ads are only the tip of the iceberg, really. To go with a more classic worry : all this data existing, being stored and mined means any public agency could more easily pull this info for any purpose they would see fit if for one reason or another. They already do. It's only kept to acceptable levels (?) of nefariousness currently because of legal safeguards but it's a switch that can be flipped at a moment's notice. The only saving graces so far are the storage being still party unreliable long term and the processing tools playing catch-up still.

I don't think we're turning back the clock on this but it really cannot hurt to be mindful of the issue at the very least.

[pilonv1]

just wait till your social credit score includes how many times you visited motherless last week