What's the deal with white people and Bill Murray movies?

[nachobro]

ONEEEEEEEEEEEEAL

[team filler]

"I'm at war with the asians"

[shosta]

"this dude cupped his hands"

[BIONIC]

Patrice was a real flamer. RIP.

[shosta]

Everytime filler posts a Patrice o Neal clip on the forums it's always good shit. I still share the fishing one with people

[nachobro]

patrice was a one of the funniest dudes ever. him talking movies on o&a was the best shit, every second of it is a gem. there's a good 10+ hour compilation of all of it but my favorite is him changing his mind on face off

[Himu]

RIP patrice

[Himu]

Can’t wait for a year from now when Cindi will proclaim that LiT is one of the best movies of all time, and that Bill Murray is the greatest actor to walk this earth. Right after turning her guns in to the cops of course. Then she will shower us with never ending screeds on why her opinion is the only one that matters.

Fuck off.

[samir]

[OnlyRegret]

This reminds me of when I bought a copy of the movie to show my wife while living over there.  I teared up at the end.  Not because of the movie's ending, but because I had seen the film in the theater with my dad and it suddenly made me miss my family like crazy.
 

Awwww

[Don Rumata]

Feeling out of place and alienated in a foreign culture isn't in itself xenophobic (let alone racist). Especially considering both characters, IIRC, are supposed to be in Japan for external circumstances (he's there for work, she's there because of her boyfriend). 
Less distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed than all those movies turning the tourist week experience of a place, into a cartoon representation of what that place is actually like.

That said, Lost in Translation is one of those movies that became annoying because of how many people jerk off to it (figuratively) so as a contrarian, one is naturally bound to hate it.

[HardcoreRetro]

What's the deal with *insert race here* and *insert stereotype here*?

White ass honkey crackers.

[nudemacusers]

Cindi is going full reset but she is correct.

Bill Murray is overrated, and has made maybe three good movies all of which were in like the 80sz

Wes Anderson flat out sucks. All of his movies are lame ass movies for white people that only have missionary sex and wear tori Burch flats.

Tory not Tori

[Himu]

Feeling out of place and alienated in a foreign culture isn't in itself xenophobic (let alone racist). Especially considering both characters, IIRC, are supposed to be in Japan for external circumstances (he's there for work, she's there because of her boyfriend). 
Less distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed than all those movies turning the tourist week experience of a place, into a cartoon representation of what that place is actually like.

That said, Lost in Translation is one of those movies that became annoying because of how many people jerk off to it (figuratively) so as a contrarian, one is naturally bound to hate it.

Feeling out of place isn't xenophobic.

But making the native people the butt of every joke certainly is.

This is further accentuated by the fact that the film having sparse dialogue to help create a tone. But it also makes the characters hyper under developed. They're mostly just a canvas for the setting. Further, due to sparse dialogue it's the type of film where you can read what you want to read. What I read, due to constant mockery of Japanese people, is racism and xenophobia. The whitest of films.

Watch the film again. Is there a single positive Japanese character in the film? No, they're the butt of every joke. The message is "this place is weird". My conclusion: Lost in Translation is a xenophobic film.

[Himu]

Great review. Trash film.

LOST IN TRANSLATION
Director: Sofia Coppola
Cast: Bill Murray, Scarlett Johansson, Anna Faris, Giovanni Ribisi
(Focus, 2003) Rated: R
DVD release date: 10 February 2004

by Sharon Mizota and Oliver Wang

Land of the Lost

The DVD of Sofia Coppola's Lost in Translation includes an extra titled "Matthew's Best Hit TV." It's a five-minute clip of Bob Harris (Bill Murray) on a Japanese talk show, where he is ambushed by the hyperbolically campy host. In the film, we see only a few moments of this sequence -- Bob looking wary of the host's wild gesticulations and rapid-fire Japanese -- but the unedited scene is far more awkward. Shot on video rather than 35mm, the scene resembles the sort of bad SNL skit that Murray might have suffered through in his early career. The only bit of charm comes at the end, when an exasperated Bob abandons decorum and stuffs a live eel down the host's suit jacket. This moment rescues a scene that is otherwise a series of cheap shots set against a mesmerizing, colorful background. That is, Lost in Translation in a nutshell.

While Murray is undeniably excellent as a slumping, has-been action star, and Lance Accord's cinematography infuses the film with a fetching, quiet beauty, the rest of Lost in Translation is as transparently thin as the pink panties that Charlotte (Scarlet Johansson) strips down to whenever she decides to stare wistfully out of her Park Hyatt window. (About those pink panties: one can't help but notice that Charlotte actually sheds clothes to take her perch. Is there an overactive heating vent beneath the window ledge? Or is her privileged quarter-life crisis so overwhelming that she has to strip in order to free her ennui? It is either one of the film's great existential enigmas or a shameless acknowledgement that Charlotte's gauze-wrapped bum makes a reliably eye-catching shot.)

Lost in Translation is awash in such arresting visual moments. A 20-story brontosaurus lumbers across the facade of a Shibuya office building. A neon kaleidoscope skates across Charlotte's taxi window. Rows of blinking red lights sigh across the Tokyo skyline. Accord portrays Japan's uber-metropolis as an enticing ocular playground where every shadow is inviting, every light a beacon, and the hues put a rainbow to shame.

But this vision of Tokyo is affecting because it's recognizable: since Japan's rise to economic power in the '80s, Hollywood movies have endlessly recycled Tokyo as high-tech dystopia. And Coppola's movie reads like a playlist of Tokyo's Greatest Hits: blinking pachinko machines? Check. Wood-paneled shabu shabu booth? Got that. Demure ikebana flower arrangers? Yup. Modernist girlie bar with contortionist strippers? Oh yeah.

It's all familiar background, made from postcards and stock extras who all stand 5'6", slur their "L's" into "R's," and chatter incomprehensibly like so many small children. True, it would undermine the whole "lost in translation" theme if Coppola provided subtitles for the monolingual, English-speaking audience, but in encouraging viewers to feel as stranded as Bob and Charlotte, she also has them adopt their troubling view of Tokyo as an exotic yet tiresome playground.

The common defense of the film's orientalism is that Tokyo is "just a backdrop," that Coppola is not trying to make a "statement" about Japan, its culture or its people. But this excuse fails to acknowledge the ways in which Japan (and Asia writ large) has long served as a stage set where white people play out their existential dilemmas. In the last six months alone, Tom Cruise traveled to feudal Japan to rediscover his honor in Dances with Shoguns, and Uma Thurman flew into Tokyo to avenge her stolen past in Kill Bill, Vol. 1. In Japanese Story, though Toni Collette finds herself in her native Australia, co-star Gotaro Tsunashima conveniently serves as a one-man distillation of Nippon's inscrutable mystery.

Lost in Translation one-ups its peers with better music, prettier shots, and a more charismatic lead, but its racism is all the more insidious for being wrapped in a pleasing package. It exchanges the Rising Sun/Black Rain/we-can't-trust-these-slant-eyed-Japanese-bastards racism for a racism of sheer laziness: trotting out one-dimensional caricatures of wacky Tokyo hipsters and cheap gags like the call girl who keeps commanding Bob to "rick my stockings!" long after the joke has gone from blandly humorous to disturbingly cruel.

That said, there is one scene that exhibits something approaching humanity. When Bob takes Charlotte to the hospital, he finds himself engaged in a futile, linguistically challenged conversation with an elderly Japanese woman in the waiting room. Their halting pantomimes and onomatopoeic utterances send two women seated behind them into a fit of giggles. By placing the laughter on screen, Coppola unseats the sense of superiority inherent in Bob's alienation. Rather than a bemused outsider, he becomes part of the joke; the Japanese are laughing at him, too. The DVD offers another version of the scene: Bob abandons any attempt to understand, putting his arm around his waiting room neighbor's shoulder in a silent gesture of camaraderie. In that moment, they're both lost in translation, and their connection, as they agree to misunderstand, is far more affecting than any other in the film, including Bob and Charlotte's.

The two leads do share some touching moments of tenderness, but their relationship hinges on the shaky premise that we are supposed to care about them. The film assumes we'll feel sympathy for Charlotte's "I don't know what I'm doing with my life/marriage!" laments and Bob's slow descent into faded glory and chilly family life. However, it's difficult to work up the requisite sympathy for a snotty Yale graduate and a wealthy movie star who spend their sleepless nights pouting in the hotel bar and taking midnight swims in the indoor pool.

Star-crossed and unconsummated lovers, Bob and Charlotte deserve each other, not just because they're lost and lonely, but also because they're both too self-centered to see the world around them. Wrapped in the myopia of whiteness and American cultural privilege, they fail to see the humanity of the city and people around them.

In one of the DVD's other deleted scenes, Charlotte walks into a random store off the main Tokyo strip. In it, she glances at some bondage photos of Japanese women, then walks over to where two robots, a "boy" and a "girl," roll over to her, briefly looking up at her with lifeless eyes. They "see" but don't recognize Charlotte in any meaningful way. She's merely an object they sense in front of them, worthy of a quick investigation but nothing more. It's an ironic allegory for Lost in Translation itself, a swirl of titillating yet fleeting postcard images and people who glance at one another but never connect.

[bork]

"This place is weird" to the people who don't understand the language, culture, and their own places in life, yes.  That's the whole point of the movie.

[Himu]

Yes, two people who don't attempt to understand it either. Let's stay in our hotel room drinking.

[bork]

Yes, two people who don't attempt to understand it either. Let's stay in our hotel room drinking.

Right...one of them is having a midlife crisis and the other is unsure what to do with herself since her marriage isn't going the way she thought it would.  Again, that's the whole point of the movie- they are lost.

[Himu]

Yes, two people who don't attempt to understand it either. Let's stay in our hotel room drinking.

Right...one of them is having a midlife crisis and the other is unsure what to do with herself since her marriage isn't going the way she thought it would.  Again, that's the whole point of the movie- they are lost.

One is a Yale graduate not knowing what to do with her life as she looks at Tokyo from her grand hotel room and the other is a father that refuses to call home.

Real sympathetic.

[Himu]

Did u kno


Not all protagonists in movies are sympathetic and that's okay


If you just wanted to be mad at white people again you didn't have to come up with such a flimsy topic to do so

I never said all protagonists need to be sympathetic.

However, the film treats them as sympathetic. It wants you to feel alienated with them.

I don't find them sympathetic.

I have nothing against white people. That doesn't mean I can't critique white race relations.

[Himu]

It's also hilarious you say "not all characters need to be sympathetic" when lyte literally just cast them in a sympathetic light.

Yes, two people who don't attempt to understand it either. Let's stay in our hotel room drinking.

Right...one of them is having a midlife crisis and the other is unsure what to do with herself since her marriage isn't going the way she thought it would.  Again, that's the whole point of the movie- they are lost.

So what is it?

Bork even liked your post. He can't even make up his mind on whether the characters should be treated sympathetic or not.

[Madrun Badrun]

I've never seen Lost in Translation because I don't watch garbage movies, but Cindy's argument seems to hinge on the idea that calling the Japanese weird is xenophobic and not just an empirical fact.  Also What about Bob is the only good Bill Murray movie. 

[Himu]

“I have no argument. Time for ad hominems and straw man arguments.”

I win.

[bork]

I've never seen Lost in Translation because I don't watch garbage movies

Also What about Bob is the only good Bill Murray movie.

I like a lot of his comedy roles and that's about it for me- never "got" the Wes Anderson stuff.

[bork]

“I have no argument. Time for ad hominems and straw man arguments.”

I win.

What do you win

[shosta]

Rushmore was just kind of insufferable for me. I understand why people like it, it's just not for me.

[bork]

Rushmore was just kind of insufferable for me. I understand why people like it, it's just not for me.

Couldn't watch it.  Never saw The Life Aquatic.

[shosta]

It's even worse.

[Himu]

One great moment was when Bob was on the treadmill and it wouldn’t stop because in japan everything is cold and mechanical apparently.

Time for a good movie. Master and Commander

[bork]

One great moment was when Bob was on the treadmill and it wouldn’t stop because in japan everything is cold and mechanical apparently.

Or it was because he couldn't figure out how to use it, due to everything being in another language and all.  You might saw his experience was...lost in translation. 
 

[Himu]

Except there are numerous examples of “japan is cold and mechanical” especially within the deleted scenes including one featuring literal robots.

[Himu]

Anyways I still own the DVD. Whoever wants it can have it for free.

[bork]

That's not the treadmill scene, though. 



He can't figure it out and the machine just keeps saying "speed up."  It was done for yuks.

[Don Rumata]

Feeling out of place and alienated in a foreign culture isn't in itself xenophobic (let alone racist). Especially considering both characters, IIRC, are supposed to be in Japan for external circumstances (he's there for work, she's there because of her boyfriend). 
Less distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed than all those movies turning the tourist week experience of a place, into a cartoon representation of what that place is actually like.

That said, Lost in Translation is one of those movies that became annoying because of how many people jerk off to it (figuratively) so as a contrarian, one is naturally bound to hate it.

Feeling out of place isn't xenophobic.

But making the native people the butt of every joke certainly is.

This is further accentuated by the fact that the film having sparse dialogue to help create a tone. But it also makes the characters hyper under developed. They're mostly just a canvas for the setting. Further, due to sparse dialogue it's the type of film where you can read what you want to read. What I read, due to constant mockery of Japanese people, is racism and xenophobia. The whitest of films.

Watch the film again. Is there a single positive Japanese character in the film? No, they're the butt of every joke. The message is "this place is weird". My conclusion: Lost in Translation is a xenophobic film.

"If you have a message, call Western Union." as the quote goes.
Arguing about what a film's "message" is supposed to be, is always a tedious affair, so i'll avoid that aspect (art is supposed to be deeper than that, anyway).

The film is from the point of view of two alienated foreigners, in a strange land (yes, strange from their specific point of view).
What the hell would be the point of inserting a Japanese character who is "positive" (?) just so you're spoon fed a moral out, for what is an intentionally awkward and uncomfortable situation for both the main characters? The Japanese culture is seen as weird and comical by the two main characters, and is thus depicted that way for the audience, who is asked to inhabit their shoes for 2 hours.
Having to bend this, so that the audience doesn't feel uncomfortable, is absurd.

And i don't even particularly like the movie, but i like even less the constant dumbing down this type of reading demands, which gives us all that shit art talking down to their audience like they're children.

[Himu]

Feeling out of place and alienated in a foreign culture isn't in itself xenophobic (let alone racist). Especially considering both characters, IIRC, are supposed to be in Japan for external circumstances (he's there for work, she's there because of her boyfriend). 
Less distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed than all those movies turning the tourist week experience of a place, into a cartoon representation of what that place is actually like.

That said, Lost in Translation is one of those movies that became annoying because of how many people jerk off to it (figuratively) so as a contrarian, one is naturally bound to hate it.

Feeling out of place isn't xenophobic.

But making the native people the butt of every joke certainly is.

This is further accentuated by the fact that the film having sparse dialogue to help create a tone. But it also makes the characters hyper under developed. They're mostly just a canvas for the setting. Further, due to sparse dialogue it's the type of film where you can read what you want to read. What I read, due to constant mockery of Japanese people, is racism and xenophobia. The whitest of films.

Watch the film again. Is there a single positive Japanese character in the film? No, they're the butt of every joke. The message is "this place is weird". My conclusion: Lost in Translation is a xenophobic film.

"If you have a message, call Western Union." as the quote goes.
Arguing about what a film's "message" is supposed to be, is always a tedious affair, so i'll avoid that aspect (art is supposed to be deeper than that, anyway).

The film is from the point of view of two alienated foreigners, in a strange land (yes, strange from their specific point of view).
What the hell would be the point of inserting a Japanese character who is "positive" (?) just so you're spoon fed a moral out, for what is an intentionally awkward and uncomfortable situation for both the main characters? The Japanese culture is seen as weird and comical by the two main characters, and is thus depicted that way for the audience, who is asked to inhabit their shoes for 2 hours.
Having to bend this, so that the audience doesn't feel uncomfortable, is absurd.

And i don't even particularly like the movie, but i like even less the constant dumbing down this type of reading demands, which gives us all that shit art talking down to their audience like they're children.

Yes, and I argue this makes film racist and xenophobic.

What if the film took place in Mexico?

“Why do they eat so many beans?”

By calling a foreign nation weird and with the main characters feeling above it all it comes off as a judgement of Japanese culture and people. While also demanding the audience to feel sympathetic for the two main characters. 

I’m not saying you have to have a positive Japanese character. But you said “feeling out of place and alienated isn’t xenophobic” and that’s well and good, except that you ignore that every Japanese character is an abstract caricature.

[TEEEPO]

i've been to coachella 3 times and have seen every wes anderon film, i basically have a phd in white people

[shosta]

The thing about the depiction of Japan is that neither of them can relate to the country or enjoy their time there until they find each other in that bar. Each person becomes a lens for the other that unlocks the potential of a fulfilling life. It's not that "Japan is _, the people are _" it's "my life was _, but now my life is _". and the experience of being in a strange country is the symbolism for that.

[Himu]

The thing about the depiction of Japan is that neither of them can relate to the country or enjoy their time there until they find each other in that bar. Each person becomes a lens for the other that unlocks the potential of a fulfilling life. It's not that "Japan is _, the people are _" it's "my life was _, but now my life is _". and the experience of being in a strange country is the symbolism for that.

They could have easily done this in America in another city to achieve the same thing.

Therefore the Japanese setting is just a prop, as are the Japanese characters.

[shosta]

Have you ever left the US before?

[Don Rumata]

Feeling out of place and alienated in a foreign culture isn't in itself xenophobic (let alone racist). Especially considering both characters, IIRC, are supposed to be in Japan for external circumstances (he's there for work, she's there because of her boyfriend). 
Less distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed than all those movies turning the tourist week experience of a place, into a cartoon representation of what that place is actually like.

That said, Lost in Translation is one of those movies that became annoying because of how many people jerk off to it (figuratively) so as a contrarian, one is naturally bound to hate it.

Feeling out of place isn't xenophobic.

But making the native people the butt of every joke certainly is.

This is further accentuated by the fact that the film having sparse dialogue to help create a tone. But it also makes the characters hyper under developed. They're mostly just a canvas for the setting. Further, due to sparse dialogue it's the type of film where you can read what you want to read. What I read, due to constant mockery of Japanese people, is racism and xenophobia. The whitest of films.

Watch the film again. Is there a single positive Japanese character in the film? No, they're the butt of every joke. The message is "this place is weird". My conclusion: Lost in Translation is a xenophobic film.

"If you have a message, call Western Union." as the quote goes.
Arguing about what a film's "message" is supposed to be, is always a tedious affair, so i'll avoid that aspect (art is supposed to be deeper than that, anyway).

The film is from the point of view of two alienated foreigners, in a strange land (yes, strange from their specific point of view).
What the hell would be the point of inserting a Japanese character who is "positive" (?) just so you're spoon fed a moral out, for what is an intentionally awkward and uncomfortable situation for both the main characters? The Japanese culture is seen as weird and comical by the two main characters, and is thus depicted that way for the audience, who is asked to inhabit their shoes for 2 hours.
Having to bend this, so that the audience doesn't feel uncomfortable, is absurd.

And i don't even particularly like the movie, but i like even less the constant dumbing down this type of reading demands, which gives us all that shit art talking down to their audience like they're children.

Yes, and I argue this makes film racist and xenophobic.

What if the film took place in Mexico?

“Why do they eat so many beans?”

By calling a foreign nation weird and with the main characters feeling above it all it comes off as a judgement of Japanese culture and people. While also demanding the audience to feel sympathetic for the two main characters. 

I’m not saying you have to have a positive Japanese character. But you said “feeling out of place and alienated isn’t xenophobic” and that’s well and good, except that you ignore that every Japanese character is an abstract caricature.

What about it? Are you really telling me you need a movie to openly and actively chastise its characters on screen, lest it be interpreted as an absolute endorsement of their actions?
I guess people being afraid of the Joker had a point after all.

Again, this is a call for the dumbing down of art, for people who want to be talked down to like children.

It'd be the equivalent of "don't try this at home", only those messages are usually aimed at impressionable children.

[Occam]

What is this, Resetera?

[Himu]

Feeling out of place and alienated in a foreign culture isn't in itself xenophobic (let alone racist). Especially considering both characters, IIRC, are supposed to be in Japan for external circumstances (he's there for work, she's there because of her boyfriend). 
Less distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed than all those movies turning the tourist week experience of a place, into a cartoon representation of what that place is actually like.

That said, Lost in Translation is one of those movies that became annoying because of how many people jerk off to it (figuratively) so as a contrarian, one is naturally bound to hate it.

Feeling out of place isn't xenophobic.

But making the native people the butt of every joke certainly is.

This is further accentuated by the fact that the film having sparse dialogue to help create a tone. But it also makes the characters hyper under developed. They're mostly just a canvas for the setting. Further, due to sparse dialogue it's the type of film where you can read what you want to read. What I read, due to constant mockery of Japanese people, is racism and xenophobia. The whitest of films.

Watch the film again. Is there a single positive Japanese character in the film? No, they're the butt of every joke. The message is "this place is weird". My conclusion: Lost in Translation is a xenophobic film.

"If you have a message, call Western Union." as the quote goes.
Arguing about what a film's "message" is supposed to be, is always a tedious affair, so i'll avoid that aspect (art is supposed to be deeper than that, anyway).

The film is from the point of view of two alienated foreigners, in a strange land (yes, strange from their specific point of view).
What the hell would be the point of inserting a Japanese character who is "positive" (?) just so you're spoon fed a moral out, for what is an intentionally awkward and uncomfortable situation for both the main characters? The Japanese culture is seen as weird and comical by the two main characters, and is thus depicted that way for the audience, who is asked to inhabit their shoes for 2 hours.
Having to bend this, so that the audience doesn't feel uncomfortable, is absurd.

And i don't even particularly like the movie, but i like even less the constant dumbing down this type of reading demands, which gives us all that shit art talking down to their audience like they're children.

Yes, and I argue this makes film racist and xenophobic.

What if the film took place in Mexico?

“Why do they eat so many beans?”

By calling a foreign nation weird and with the main characters feeling above it all it comes off as a judgement of Japanese culture and people. While also demanding the audience to feel sympathetic for the two main characters. 

I’m not saying you have to have a positive Japanese character. But you said “feeling out of place and alienated isn’t xenophobic” and that’s well and good, except that you ignore that every Japanese character is an abstract caricature.

What about it? Are you really telling me you need a movie to openly and actively chastise its characters on screen, lest it be interpreted as an absolute endorsement of their actions?
I guess people being afraid of the Joker had a point after all.

Again, this is a call for the dumbing down of art, for people who want to be talked down to like children.

It'd be the equivalent of "don't try this at home", only those messages are usually aimed at impressionable children.

I’m not saying that at all nor am I calling for the dumbing down of art. It exists. Therefore I will critique.

It’s hilarious you say I’m calling for dumbing down Art when you can’t handle art that exists to be critiqued, one reason in which art partly exists. In your own inability to understand critical opposition to art you have already dumbed down art.

If a movie about two people going to Mexico and questioning “why do they roll their r’s?” existed. I’d call that racist too.

Meanwhile, you probably aren’t even an artist.

At this point you aren’t even actually arguing against my actual content. It can exist and I can also critique it.

Have you ever left the US before?

Nope.

[Himu]

I too also make simplistic one liner posts because I lack any sense of depth.

[shosta]

Have you ever left the US before?

Nope.

well, that explains it

[Don Rumata]

I’m not saying that at all nor am I calling for the dumbing down of art. It exists. Therefore I will critique.

It’s hilarious you say I’m calling for dumbing down Art when you can’t handle art that exists to be critiqued, one reason in which art partly exists. In your own inability to understand critical opposition to art you have already dumbed down art.

If a movie about two people going to Mexico and questioning “why do they roll their r’s?” existed. I’d call that racist too.

Meanwhile, you probably aren’t even an artist.

At this point you aren’t even actually arguing against my actual content. It can exist and I can also critique it.

You can critique all you want, unfortunately, it doesn't mean your critique is any good. 

[Himu]

[Occam]

Have you ever left the US before?

Nope.

The horizon of many people is a circle with a radius of zero. They call this their point of view.
-Albert Einstein

[Himu]

I haven’t been outside the USA but have lived in different cities before. I know what it’s like being outside of a culture. I am black American in USA. I’m pretty sure I have always been the sole black person in every art class I’ve ever taken besides one. I shouldn’t have to visit another country to critique how Lost In Translation presents Japan.

[shosta]

Do you know what it's like being in a completely unrecognizable culture and not speaking ANY of the language?

[bork]

I haven’t been outside the USA but have lived in different cities before. I know what it’s like being outside of a culture. I am black American in USA. I shouldn’t have to visit another country to critique how Lost In Translation presents Japan.

No, you don't need to have gone to another country to critique a movie. 

But you also have no idea of what it's like to truly be outside of your own culture- there is a massive difference between living in different cities in the same country and living/spending long periods of time in not only a different country, but one with a very different culture to your own like Japan.

My own experiences visiting and living there definitely had an effect on how I saw this movie for sure.

[Himu]

Do you know what it's like being in a completely unrecognizable culture and not speaking ANY of the language?

I sure don’t. But you liked a post just the other day about what it’s like being the sole black person at a metal concert while arguing I have no experience with cultural alienation in this thread. Funny.

Know what I do when I go to the Vietnamese restaurant? I try to pronounce the meal names right.

Or when meeting someone new. “How do you pronounce your name? _____? Is that how you pronounce it right?”

I try to interact with other cultures in an empathetic manner.

Why? Because I’m not a cac. Meanwhile my Asian friends had to come up with English names that aren’t their actual name because no one bothered to try to pronounce it right.

The least they can do is try. But they don’t. Not even at home. So they go to another country and stew in their hotel room drinking booze and making fun of the local culture. “Let’s never come back here.” Meanwhile the film tries to make their alienation sympathetic. This is why it fails as a film.

If I were going on a trip with my husband/wife for their job to another country I’d try to learn the culture and at least some of the basics of the language rather than constantly riff on it.

[bork]

The least they can do is try. But they don’t. Not even at home. So they go to another country and stew in their hotel room drinking booze and making fun of the local culture. “Let’s never come back here.” Meanwhile the film tries to make their alienation sympathetic. This is why it fails as a film.

Correct me if I'm wrong here and there's another line with just that, but the full line is "Let's never come here again...because it will never be as much fun."

Stealth edit: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/02b69d8b-283f-4eb6-9dc4-9ced2cb0a204

If I were going on a trip with my husband/wife for their job to another country I’d try to learn the culture and at least some of the basics of the language rather than constantly riff on it.

And that would make for a pretty boring movie.

[shosta]

You can say that you didn't really like the characters and their particular flaws but if you think that the movie is rude to Japanese culture, or even if it was, that that's a huge detraction from the thematic elements and narrative quality, you're just super wrong

I've watched movies where the protagonists really turned me off from what I still think is an objectively good movie. Garden State of Mind is a pretty popular cac movie. I just hate slacker find-yourself shit.

[Himu]

But don’t get me wrong. Characters don’t have to be in the right to be sympathetic.

Take Michael.

He commits fratricide. He pushes the one thing that made him human out of his life.



The ending to Godfather II is chilling as a lonesome Michael sits by himself, an outcast in his own family. The final shot is a zoom in close up that shows Michael’s face grow more dark and older by every second. He is now a man that has lost everything. Despite his sins, he’s still a sympathetic figure. A tragic character.

In order for me - the viewer - to sympathize with these two privileged fucks, I have to buy into it. And their sympathy, no matter how much (or more accurately, how little) the film tries, it doesn’t work. It isn’t earned and that’s why it fails as a film.

Francis is a far superior director to Sofia in every sense of the word. What Sofia presents is a worldview blistered with vapidity.

[OnlyRegret]

Do you know what it's like being in a completely unrecognizable culture and not speaking ANY of the language?

I sure don’t. But you liked a post just the other day about what it’s like being the sole black person at a metal concert while arguing I have no experience with cultural alienation in this thread. Funny.

Know what I do when I go to the Vietnamese restaurant? I try to pronounce the meal names right.

Or when meeting someone new. “How do you pronounce your name? _____? Is that how you pronounce it right?”

I try to interact with other cultures in an empathetic manner.

Why? Because I’m not a cac. Meanwhile my Asian friends had to come up with English names that aren’t their actual name because no one bothered to try to pronounce it right.

The least they can do is try. But they don’t. Not even at home. So they go to another country and stew in their hotel room drinking booze and making fun of the local culture. “Let’s never come back here.” Meanwhile the film tries to make their alienation sympathetic. This is why it fails as a film.

If I were going on a trip with my husband/wife for their job to another country I’d try to learn the culture and at least some of the basics of the language rather than constantly riff on it.

I'm sorry but visiting fast food or dine-ins does not count remotely for interacting with other cultures.
On a side note, it really pisses me off when white people use food as their favourite "pro" diversity thing.

[nachobro]

ah but you see i pronounced pho right therefore i'm better than any white person

[Himu]

Do you know what it's like being in a completely unrecognizable culture and not speaking ANY of the language?

I sure don’t. But you liked a post just the other day about what it’s like being the sole black person at a metal concert while arguing I have no experience with cultural alienation in this thread. Funny.

Know what I do when I go to the Vietnamese restaurant? I try to pronounce the meal names right.

Or when meeting someone new. “How do you pronounce your name? _____? Is that how you pronounce it right?”

I try to interact with other cultures in an empathetic manner.

Why? Because I’m not a cac. Meanwhile my Asian friends had to come up with English names that aren’t their actual name because no one bothered to try to pronounce it right.

The least they can do is try. But they don’t. Not even at home. So they go to another country and stew in their hotel room drinking booze and making fun of the local culture. “Let’s never come back here.” Meanwhile the film tries to make their alienation sympathetic. This is why it fails as a film.

If I were going on a trip with my husband/wife for their job to another country I’d try to learn the culture and at least some of the basics of the language rather than constantly riff on it.

I'm sorry but visiting fast food or dine-ins does not count remotely for interacting with other cultures.
On a side note, it really pisses me off when white people use food as their favourite "pro" diversity thing.

You’re right. It’s just an off hand example.

[thetylerrob]

How the hell can you title the thread "What's the deal with white people and Bill Murray movies?" and then spend 4 pages talking about LiT isn't good because the characters are disrespectful to Japanese culture? LOL

Also, you complained that the movie used Japanese culture as a prop when that's why Bill Murray's character is so disillusioned in the first place, he is a literal prop in the whiskey commercial because of a communication barrier between him and the people around him. IIRC Scarjo's character is feeling the same way because of the way her husband ignores her for work. That's why they act like assholes until they forge a connection and start to enjoy the feeling of being lost together.

I haven't seen it in like 8 years but it was definitely a good movie, and this whole trend of people realizing themes are problematic and pretending that keeps you from relating to media is dumb as fuck.

[Propagandhim]

guys, i'll check this movie out and ring in with a final verdict.  don't stress.

or should I just wait until you all organize a rabb.it night?   

[Propagandhim]

ScarJo    Wikipedia tells me Scar Jo was 18 when this movie was released, so probably 17 during filming.  This is already more problematic than anything Cindi has said about this movie so far. 

Apparently they killed rabb.it and made this in its place: https://kast.gg/