Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack

[Himu]

Like I did nearly annual "I'm gonna listen to The Blueprint and see if there's anything in it worth salvaging" listen last night.

I've listened to the albums dozens of times and I still think it's wack but it's labeled a classic.

Let's start off with my criticisms towards Jay-Z:

1. His voice fucking sucks.

I like my hip hop to sound rough and raw like the nicca is gonna hate crime the fuck out of my cheeseburger self as he fucks me without a rubber.

No song exemplifies this disconnect more than the song Renegade on Blueprint, in which Eminem murders Jay on his own shit.



Jay sounds so soft and his delivery fucking sucks. Then you realize he's like that every damn song. You could say I don't like his voice because it's too smooth but I love rappers like Snoop that sound hard despite their laid back demeanor.

It sounds okay at best.

Like compare voice of Jay on Empire State of Mind.



Then listen to Nas' NY State of Mind.



From the jump, the first "yeah, yeah...." Nas takes control. Jay however melts into the beat. He's the voice but I'm listening to the beat more than him.

Jay's voice is not pleasurable to listen to. I prefer rappers that have deep voices. Even female mc's can bring punch to their rap game that Jay simply lacks.



Jay sounds just as bored as we are when he raps.

Compare to 2pac. The way he enunciates words with emphasis that draws the listener in. You feel his pain.



Jay isn't on that tier. He sounds like a fucking bitch.

2. His beat selection.

I just don't get it. I hear people criticize Nas for his beat selection frequently. But I can't fuck with half the beats on Jay's supposed "classic" Blueprint.

Like Takeover. It's a diss track and the beat puts me to sleep.

3. His content

Half of blueprint is bragging. I'm sorry but braggadacio is the most boring form of hip hop. Half of the album amounts to filler.

Help me understand. I love Reasonable Doubt, so I know he has gems. But the dude is utterly hit or miss with me and given his status of basically being God Emperor of Hip Hop that's kinda lacking.

Then again, I really struggle to like listening to hip hop these days. I can't listen to it for long before getting bored. Although I like hip hop, I unfortunately don't love it.

[TVC15]

I like most of the blueprint but that’s it, and I have a feeling that has more to do with the producers and collaborators, and maybe even more with the time it came out. I never got Jay-Z myself, either.

I never found his content very unique or interesting, even considering when he came up. He has his own style and delivery, which is a very good thing, but I figured it just must not be my cup of tea or something. Much like Beyonce I find the cult of personality surrounding him surprising. Like, why did this dude win the fucking lottery to become the (living) rap superstar of the 90s? It’s not fair. To me he’s mediocre!

[TVC15]

Also, I lol listen to the unending bad Blueprint sequels. Keep chasing that past glory, Jay. Even he apparently know he isn’t a very good rapper. Why do people buy this shit?

[EchoRin]

Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

[team filler]

he's mf doom for boomers

[TVC15]

Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

Yes, good ol Jay! Saving the Yankees from irrelevance in the late 90s and early 2000s! Nobody thought he could do it!

[TVC15]

Guys I think The Bore saved The Taco Bell.

[EchoRin]

Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

Yes, good ol Jay! Saving the Yankees from irrelevance in the late 90s and early 2000s! Nobody thought he could do it!

Lol. Ok ok. Yes the Yanks were doing just fine in baseball. But who the hell outside of North America and a couple other baseball countries was buying Yankees merch because they were Yankees fans? This ain't no Michael Jordan Bulls mania that people clung onto one star. Nobody was goign all Derek Jeter crazy in central Europe and yet Yankees hats were worn by everyone and their deceased grandparents.

[Himu]

taco bell saved taco bell. live mas

[TVC15]

Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

Yes, good ol Jay! Saving the Yankees from irrelevance in the late 90s and early 2000s! Nobody thought he could do it!

Lol. Ok ok. Yes the Yanks were doing just fine in baseball. But who the hell outside of North America and a couple other baseball countries was buying Yankees merch because they were Yankees fans? This ain't no Michael Jordan Bulls mania that people clung onto one star. Nobody was goign all Derek Jeter crazy in central Europe and yet Yankees hats were worn by everyone and their deceased grandparents.

Madonna was, and she’s very European.

Jay can’t claim credit on this. At best he was a contributing factor.

[Himu]

Madonna also sucks.

Cyndi Lauper for life.

[TVC15]

Madonna also sucks.

Cyndi Lauper for life.

No shit, I’m no dummy. Her team should’ve been on top.

[EchoRin]

Madonna was, and she’s very European.

Jay can’t claim credit on this. At best he was a contributing factor.

Madonna bit: wait, wat?

Jay bit: I will concede

------------
Madonna got some good albums under her belt too. I'll go to bat (heh) for this song anytime

[TVC15]

Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).

[EchoRin]

Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).

Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

[TVC15]

Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).

Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

[EchoRin]

Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).

Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

No. But I'd love to know what podcast it was.

[TVC15]

Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).

Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

No. But I'd love to know what podcast it was.

Ooh, a coincidence—savor this moment! They really only happen a few times in a lifetime.

Just came out 7 days ago! I figured since you mentioned it you must have heard it recently from the same source.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-generation-why-podcast/e/65188105?autoplay=true

[EchoRin]

Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).

Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

No. But I'd love to know what podcast it was.

Ooh, a coincidence—savor this moment! They really only happen a few times in a lifetime.

Just came out 7 days ago! I figured since you mentioned it you must have heard it recently from the same source.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-generation-why-podcast/e/65188105?autoplay=true

No. I was hanging with some of my buddies last month and all of us lived in Detroit for a long or small part of our lives. Bison played for the Pistons and me and one friend were discussing weird athlete names when the third friend brought up Bison and we were like "yeah that's pretty crazy". Then he goes on to bring up some crazy story about his death which made us go "huh". Then he tops it off by going to the guy's wiki page and all of us are like "WTF?!"

[Tasty]

I view him as the K-Fed to Beyonce's Britney.

[agrajag]

what year is it?

 

[Tasty]

Madonna also sucks.

[TVC15]

Beyoncé: a limp diva for a bent era

[TVC15]

I didn’t hate the black album but I thought the audio tracks weren’t very interesting. Jay-Z as the focal point of a Jay-Z album doesn’t work for me.

[naff]

i like his verse in Upgrade U, especially when he chants MAFIOSO.

but really, i think the things you don't like about his voice are generally what is considered appealing. his flow is casual, effortless, and his voice control is great at blending into the beat, which imo is pretty great at delivering really fun, smart lyrics. his body of work is long spanning, consistently good with a bunch of culture defining albums. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

not to mention nuts marketing. even growing up in new zealand with no internet we knew all his classics.

comparing him to peak nas, latifah,  yeah not a lot of people are going to argue with you there. not as emotive as pac? no shit. who is? wildly different styles







saying jay has a shit voice is a very hot take.

[Himu]

Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best and Annie sample.

Girls, girls, girls is okay.

[Tasty]

Upgrade U only works because Jay is such a piece of shit to begin with

But man does it work hard

[naff]

Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best beat and Annie sample.

you mean, like, the reason it's popular.

i think it's also a good example of jay z's simple pop use of his voice. iconic track for the beat and sample anyway.

[Tasty]

Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best beat and Annie sample.

you mean, like, the reason it's popular.

i think it's also a good example of jay z's simple pop use of his voice. iconic track for the beat and sample anyway.

Doc Evil did it better.

[Himu]

I knew this had happened before:

 http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=39855.0



Nas stans....

I asked a question.

This time I'm not trolling. I'm genuine in my attempt to understand and you instsntly get defensive.

[Himu]

Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best beat and Annie sample.

you mean, like, the reason it's popular.

i think it's also a good example of jay z's simple pop use of his voice. iconic track for the beat and sample anyway.

So the reason it's popular has nothing to do with Jay's rhymes themselves.

I see.

[naff]

one of your criticisms was his beat selection, that is iconic in that regard.

same with girls, girls, girls and i really dig his voice and flow on that track.

[bork]

I like this song.   

spoiler (click to show/hide)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was still in Japan when these songs came out and heard the Asher Roth one first- and thought it was his song.  Didn't know he ripped it off from Jay-Z for a few years.   

[close]

[close]

[Himu]

I like Jay's beats a lot more before Blueprint. From then on I'm not big on his beat selection. It really depends on the era for me.

i like his verse in Upgrade U, especially when he chants MAFIOSO.

but really, i think the things you don't like about his voice are generally what is considered appealing. his flow is casual, effortless, and his voice control is great at blending into the beat, which imo is pretty great at delivering really fun, smart lyrics. his body of work is long spanning, consistently good with a bunch of culture defining albums. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

not to mention nuts marketing. even growing up in new zealand with no internet we knew all his classics.

comparing him to peak nas, latifah,  yeah not a lot of people are going to argue with you there. not as emotive as pac? no shit. who is? wildly different styles







saying jay has a shit voice is a very hot take.

Dead Presidents is good. Like I said I love Reasonsble Doubt.

[TVC15]

Girls girls girls has some fun shit in it but I absolutely hate the refrain.

[Himu]

Name something you like from the past 10 years.

Oh absolutely. I rarely listen to hip hop much anymore though. I listen to Funk, metal, rock, blues, jazz, r&b, and classical far more. More me hip hop is a low tier for the genres of music that I like. I like basically every genre. I don't love every genre though. For me hip hop it like sweets. I can't take too much and no longer seek it out as I get older. But I still like it and partake now and then.

[TVC15]

Name something you like from the past 10 years.

Oh absolutely. I rarely listen to hip hop much anymore though. I listen to Funk, metal, rock, blues, jazz, r&b, and classical far more. More me hip hop is a low tier for the genres of music that I like. I like basically every genre. I don't love every genre though. For me hip hop it like sweets. I can't take too much and no longer seek it out as I get older. But I still like it and partake now and then.

Did you watch this Cindi? Tales from the Tour Bus?

[TVC15]

Fuck, Process and the Doo Rags was such a brilliant name for a band.

[Himu]

Also sucks for Esch to turn this into a Nas Stan thing when I love NYC hip hop in general. I don't get the things I look for in hip hop through Jay, which is mostly storytelling and emotional delivery. Take me to another place. Make a movie appear in my head. Take me  for a trip. Jay doesn't do that unlike many NY rappers. For reference, classic NYC hip hop is my favorite form of the genre.

This ties into his voice. When I say voice, I don't mean flow. Frankly, flow is overrated in the scope of hip hop. I mean his voice. It's soft. It blends into the music.

When I think of a powerful voice in hip hop, this is what I'm looking for.



Listen to RZA. What he got:

- powerful storytelling
- emotional delivery that draws you into the song
- I envision a movie playing of rza the wise sage talking to his Wi brethren sipping on him
- raw production

I don't get these things when I listen to Jay and those things are why I like hip hop.

Those things are also the touchstone hallmarks of NYC hip hop.

[Trent Dole]

[Himu]

[Himu]

I asked a question.

This time I'm not trolling. I'm genuine in my attempt to understand and you instsntly get defensive.

Nah, this is your thing. You just want to rant about something you don't like. I get it.

You witnessed me continuously give death metal a try until I got it and this is how you picture me despite the fact you dhould know first hand that I have an open mind about music. Fuck you too.

It's less that I want to rant and more that I want to discuss. But discussion requires multiple parties. I'll lock the thread. Sorry I ever bothered.

[Himu]

Still listening to Jay. RD isn't on apple music and I can't find my cd so I've been going through his discog. I've felt for the longest that Vol 1 was a weak, very commercial follow-up to RD. Vol 3 is really when he comes to his own. It's a great album. This is all a part of an effort to get back into rap. Blueprint next. Which is a chsllenge. I love the sound, beats, content, and flow on vol 3. I'm not big on BP but I'm going to keep giving it a shot and keep going.

Meanwhile listening to mc's I missed like Cube before moving onto finding modern rap I like

Haven't followed the game since the 2000's so im looking forward to playing catch up.

[Himu]

Vol 2 is really when he starts to hit his stride but the album isn't the hottest imo. It has good moments tho.

Listenining to BP now. Really giving this a chance.

[kingv]

Despite being the biggest rapper alive, Jay has never been memorable to me.

I’m not sure I could sing choruses from 5 of his songs unprompted but could probably rap along to all of 36 chambers, only built for Cuban Lynx, Ironman, and supreme clientele.

Like, Master P is more memorable to me, or that Bone Thugz ghetto Cowoboy song.

Not necessarily that those are better but they are at least memorable in their badness. jay-z is just sort of there.

[Himu]

I guess I listened to too much metal before BP last time. Had to open my ear to hip hop after months and months of nothing but jazz, classical, and metal. This time I liked it a lot more. I'll keep listening and checking the lyrics for depth and content. Jay's voice gets better the more you listen to him. I'll admit I was wrong and the op was trollish.

Btw my dislike for Jay has nothing to do with Nas. It has to do with his verses on CD's Get Down. I went from listening to KRS to Jay last night. I guess I can admit he's not a bad rapper but like 50 Cent, he just doesn't make the type of hip hop that sticks with me, which is mostly conscious rap. I really prefer KRS to Jay for instance. Even then I can listen to and like more than conscious hip hop as I love early Cash Money, Camr'on, Scarface, DMX, Lox, Big, and others.

[Leadbelly]

Yeah. Never understood why people like Jay-Z. He's got way more money than he ever should have. Although I guess that is more the business side of it. I think actually he is treated by the media like this big thing rather than pure hip hop fans.

And in terms of flow, I have always thought Busta Rhymes was amazing in his early days before he fell off.

[Mandark]

My only opinion is that Takeover > Ether, but people were both itching for Nas to return to form and for someone to take Jay-Z down a peg.

[team filler]

 

[Leadbelly]

Also sucks for Esch to turn this into a Nas Stan thing when I love NYC hip hop in general. I don't get the things I look for in hip hop through Jay, which is mostly storytelling and emotional delivery. Take me to another place. Make a movie appear in my head. Take me  for a trip. Jay doesn't do that unlike many NY rappers. For reference, classic NYC hip hop is my favorite form of the genre.

This ties into his voice. When I say voice, I don't mean flow. Frankly, flow is overrated in the scope of hip hop. I mean his voice. It's soft. It blends into the music.

When I think of a powerful voice in hip hop, this is what I'm looking for.



Listen to RZA. What he got:

- powerful storytelling
- emotional delivery that draws you into the song
- I envision a movie playing of rza the wise sage talking to his Wi brethren sipping on him
- raw production

I don't get these things when I listen to Jay and those things are why I like hip hop.

Those things are also the touchstone hallmarks of NYC hip hop.

And in terms of the Wu Tang fam, 'Too Poetic' AKA 'Grym Reaper' was amazing. RIP. Not in Wu Tang, but in the extended family, so to speak. He was in Gravediggaz in which the RZA was also a part. Part of the group and also the producer.

This song is actually a collaboration with Sunz of Man and Gravediggaz, but the Grym Reaper raps on it. He raps second on this. his flow and lyrics are sick.  Pure poetry. One of the most perfect raps songs as well I think.

Those fucking lyrics man. lol

Red October causin' fish to grow arms, legs, tits
And double heads, mutating the eggs as the radiation spreads
Over the water beds, I watch Mother Nature as she bled
Grym, was placed in skin casing to begin lacing hymns

[Tuckers Law]

For me, the appeal of Jay-Z is that he’s a lyrical target for Nas.  Represent represent.

[agrajag]

remember when Nas called him Gay-Z   

[Himu]

remember when Nas called him Gay-Z   

The only thing I dislike about ether is the lazy homophobia disses. Gay Z is massive, massive low hanging fruit

[tiesto]

This is the only Jay-Z song that really blew me away. The dark production, the flow, the Missy chorus:

[agrajag]

ok I'll bite, what makes Jay Z a particularly skilled MC?

[agrajag]

meh his flow always sounded super awks to me

[Mandark]

The only thing I dislike about ether is the lazy homophobia disses.

That's like half the song!

[Coax]

He has an excellent flow and weaves in and out of great lines almost effortlessly. The man in his prime was endlessly quotable.

Ultimately became my fav track from Reasonable Doubt. Not enough of a fan of Jay-Z's output apart from that album to buy any others (I'd say the same about Nas and Illmatic) but do appreciate his lyricism, though I think I read some tracks of his were ghost written, maybe someone could clarify.

[kingv]

I think Jay-Zs mass appeal has more to do with how he toes the line between safe and not safe.

Like he’s the rapper whose songs will be played in Walmart one day while you’re shopping. Your dad will be like “oh, he did that album with the Beatles songs! (Yes I realize he wasn’t really involved with that).”

And he like stabbed a dude, but it like must not have been a real stabbing because he got probation for like 90 days or something.

Like he’s hard, but not that hard.

[agrajag]

I like Dead Presidents II