Cindi re-reads Lord of the Rings trilogy for first time since High school

[Himu]

Currently on the prologue concerning Hobbits and their history. I'm surprisingly loving it.

In High School I found the books a total slog past Fellowship of the Ring. This is my attempt to re-read it and try to gain appreciation for the novels in my older age. I loved The Hobbit book growing up and read it on more than one occasion so I was disappointed and bewildered by the Trilogy, which I found too dire in its prose and too wordy in its descriptions. I'd walk around school with them, taking a full year or two to read them. But that was a teenager with a teenagers set of expectations and limited world/life experience. I am loving the history and genealogy this go around if only for the world building and miraculous humor Tolkien manages to sneak in and making us care, know, and love about these two feet tall breed of creature.

Here's hoping it continues to stay engaging and my older experiences proves the books more informative and entertaining than upon my original readings.

[team filler]

 

[Transhuman]

I read the Hobbit twice but the main trilogy? Got through most of the first in HS but was way too dry

[thisismyusername]

Took me all of high-school to read the Lord of the Rings when the Hobbit was about a week read.

I couldn't do that a second time.

[Himu]

Reportedly, these novels were written for adults in mind and apparently just turn most people of adolescence off. Might be worth a re-read. Despite the status as fantasy novels these books aren't for teens.

[Madrun Badrun]

Despite the status as fantasy novels these books aren't for teens.

What decade were you born in? 

[Transhuman]

He wrote the books for morphine addicted WWII vets

[Himu]

Despite the status as fantasy novels these books aren't for teens.

What decade were you born in?

It's true. They were marketed as fantasy for adults. Might be a correlation when many try them as teens and find them boring. It's common to think they're boring as teens and love them as adults 

[Tuckers Law]

When I was a teenager, LotR was such a slog after reading The Hobbit was so breezy to get through.  At the time I was also really into the Elric stories and was all, “fuck the one ring, the Eternal Champion is the real shit!”

I did end up reading LotR again later down the road and appreciated it a lot more, but it still is kind of a slog in parts.

[Coax]

I think I read the books separately prior to each film release rather than altogether. Haven't much recollection of specifics though apart from the Tom Bombadil section.

[thisismyusername]

I read them during the movie releases. And honestly: The movie cuts a lot of bullshit out. Tolkien has a real diarrhea of the mouth. Explaining the trees and shit.

What the story needs: He looked out of the curtain.
What Tolkien gives you: He looked out of the curtain, which was blue. He chose the color blue on a depressing rainy day in the middle of July, mostly because he had depression and thought the blue color would cheer him up. It didn't. Alas, as he hid behind the curtain and watched out, he felt a terrible sadness at what he saw.

[Himu]

I don't trust opinions that are nearly twenty years old without reevaluation regarding media tbh

[Mupepe]

I read them again about 2 or 3 years ago. God awful for the most part. Some really cool moments and writing sprinkled throughout but I was mostly bored. Fucking songs and pages describing colors of leaves. And Tom fucking Bombadil. The worst goddamn character ever until Jar Jar.

[Trent Dole]

I read The Hobbit years ago and think I have a massive volume of the trilogy? Maybe the ex said it was her and kept it when we were dissolving. Another reason to go through all my boxes I guess.

[Himu]

I read them again about 2 or 3 years ago. God awful for the most part. Some really cool moments and writing sprinkled throughout but I was mostly bored. Fucking songs and pages describing colors of leaves. And Tom fucking Bombadil. The worst goddamn character ever until Jar Jar.

Excited to see how I feel about it

[thisismyusername]

I don't trust opinions that are nearly twenty years old without reevaluation regarding media tbh

My dudette: That opinion is fucking common. A lot of literary/readers hate how Tolkien drones on and on. It's a very common sentiment.

[Himu]

I hate YA and don't think LOTR constitutes. Been reading lots of art related history lately and want a load off.

Anyways, I read me a some 70 pages of Fellowship today. Didn't take long and none of it was tedious. It's all fascinating, fun, with great build up, foreshadowing, and is dripping with charm. I finished off Bilbo's birthday chapter in one sitting.

Good shit.

At current pace it should take a month or maybe three weeks to read the Trilogy. With hope that is. The pacing is so much better with my current reading speed. The ol magic finger and peripheral is real handy.

[Mandark]

You know what? I'm going to say it. Read a better book. Why retread YA bullshit when there's an entire world of literature out there for you.

Don't ask him to elaborate on this Cindi, he's just going to recommend Settlers.

[Uncle]

fellowship starts out good and fun and not that unlike the hobbit, then at some point tolkien realized he was writing an epic and needed to start bullshitting about random stuff for long periods of time

frodo leaving the shire is an unexciting slog, like 20 years pass while gandalf is gone and then frodo buys a house but just as a front because it will be easier to leave, and one or more of his friends is gonna live there to give the appearance of someone still being there while he sneaks out, because all of these logistics are extremely important, and then he wanders through woods and placid fields for a while and other than bree and weathertop it's very boring until rivendell

then the next boring part is lothlorien which cockblocks you right after having some interesting times down in the mines, suddenly there are all these trees and flowers that need excruciating detail

in the later books the frodo and sam parts are generally the worst as they just wander through grey landscapes for entire books

[ToxicAdam]

Just like the movies, I think Fellowship is the best book. It's fairly linear and all builds towards a big set piece and then ends on a good cliffhanger. Even though Tolkien will spend 2 pages describing a grove of woods, it still has a compelling drive to it.

Two Towers has great moments, but the affairs of elves are so boring. Return of the King never feels like it has momentum it jumps all around until the end. I do love the end of RotK, but it's not enough to make me enjoy the previous 300 pages.

[curly]

Babies itt think LOTR is a slog 

Now The Silmarillion 

[OnlyRegret]

fuck elves, race for snowflakes

[Himu]

fellowship starts out good and fun and not that unlike the hobbit, then at some point tolkien realized he was writing an epic and needed to start bullshitting about random stuff for long periods of time

frodo leaving the shire is an unexciting slog, like 20 years pass while gandalf is gone and then frodo buys a house but just as a front because it will be easier to leave, and one or more of his friends is gonna live there to give the appearance of someone still being there while he sneaks out, because all of these logistics are extremely important, and then he wanders through woods and placid fields for a while and other than bree and weathertop it's very boring until rivendell

then the next boring part is lothlorien which cockblocks you right after having some interesting times down in the mines, suddenly there are all these trees and flowers that need excruciating detail

in the later books the frodo and sam parts are generally the worst as they just wander through grey landscapes for entire books

Eh.

The chapter you're referring to is absolutely fine. The only problem is a plot hole of,"if the ring is so dangerous then why is it taking them months to leave if the dark lord has a hint of where it lies?"

But even that's done for great tension, as Frodo leaving the Shire is full of danger and perils of creepy black riders on his trail as the Ring's temptation begins to weigh in him.

Absolutely fine and I blazed through it.

Finally, the movies white washed Tolkien's work. Many Hobbits and characters are described as being brown skinned. It's amusing to see Tolkien's work described as racist when they're using the films as a means for that critique when it certainly (at least as of now) doesn't reflect Tolkien's actual writings.

I should probably hit Bree today.

This is great stuff. I'm convinced this was beyond me when I tried to read it as a teen. I'm now definitely ready to take on this adventure.

Calling Frodo's exit of the Shire boring though. Not sure we are reading the same thing.

[Raist]

It's a goddamn masterpiece, anyone saying otherwise never heard about it before the movies and is just trying to be edgy because it's "mainstream and boring".

Also, Elric? Please. A dude with magical powers and a cursed black sword, that eventually turns against him? Now, where have I read about this again

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Silmarillion, motherfuckers. That's right. Elric is a straight rip off of Turin Turambar

[close]

[Himu]

It's a goddamn masterpiece, anyone saying otherwise never heard about it before the movies and is just trying to be edgy because it's "mainstream and boring".

Also, Elric? Please. A dude with magical powers and a cursed black sword, that eventually turns against him? Now, where have I read about this again

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Silmarillion, motherfuckers. That's right. Elric is a straight rip off of Turin Turambar

[close]

For the record, I read them before the movies were out and grew up with it and the Hobbit. My dad being a big LOTR fan had taped broadcast recordings in a massive boxset which we listened to on road trips. LotR is among some of my earlier memories actually. The copies I read (and still own) were my father's from the 70's.

So no, not everyone that couldn't get into it is a hipster trying to be edgy.

[Raist]

I obviously wasn't including you in that basket, you a'ight

[Phoenix Dark]

I need to revisit it. I re-read some of it a few years ago and it held up nicely.

In terms of racism and Tolkien I don't think people are referring to the hobbits. It's his depiction of dark skinned humans later in the series, specially the Easterlings and Haradrim.

Personally I view all this as a simplification of the books. Race is discussed throughout the series, and there's plenty of racism between elves v dwarves that ultimately benefits Sauron. And if you really want to follow me into the depths of nerd-dom, let us not forget the fall of the Numenoreans was directly related to infighting over racial purity, and ultimately the mixed dude (Eldacar) turned out to be the good guy while the pure blood dude was the bad guy.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

read Blood Meridian

[close]

[Himu]

One thing I loved but forgot is how you learn the history of the Ring so early on. I forgot Gandalf tells Frodo that Gollum was once a Hobbit (or Hobbit-like) so early in.

And the tale of him tracking Smeagol down with Aragorn is That's an element the films neglected. I forgot how much of a good tracker and woodsman Aragorn is. The movies just treat him as a badass with a sword but he's so much more.

[Tuckers Law]

It's a goddamn masterpiece, anyone saying otherwise never heard about it before the movies and is just trying to be edgy because it's "mainstream and boring".

Also, Elric? Please. A dude with magical powers and a cursed black sword, that eventually turns against him? Now, where have I read about this again

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Silmarillion, motherfuckers. That's right. Elric is a straight rip off of Turin Turambar

[close]

I was a teenager, Elric’s writing was easier to digest and the character actually smashed.  LotR stars a bunch of forever alone incels lamenting with elves and shit.

[Himu]

It does make you wonder why Frodo never smashed hobbit puss those 17 years as a bachelor.

Speaking of which, is hobbit pussy more hairy than human pussy? If their feet are that hairy what about that vagina?

[Tuckers Law]

I bet Hobbits got some glorious curlies that put 70’s era porn-bush to shame.

[Mupepe]

It does make you wonder why Frodo never smashed hobbit puss those 17 years as a bachelor.

Speaking of which, is hobbit pussy more hairy than human pussy? If their feet are that hairy what about that vagina?

They’re not uncivilized dirty dwarves. They’d trim or shave that shit. A fuzzy well kept lawn. Wax the hobbit asshole though.

[Uncle]

they probably shave it into the shape of a pipe weed leaf because it's so intoxicating 

[Himu]

It does make you wonder why Frodo never smashed hobbit puss those 17 years as a bachelor.

Speaking of which, is hobbit pussy more hairy than human pussy? If their feet are that hairy what about that vagina?

They’re not uncivilized dirty dwarves. They’d trim or shave that shit. A fuzzy well kept lawn. Wax the hobbit asshole though.

So what you're saying is that you'd fuck a Hobbit.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's okay. I would too.

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

I will cosign Elric recommendations. It's definitely on the "if you're gonna read fantasy tings, you should read this shit now" list.

[Madrun Badrun]

I really want to read Elric but its so damn hard to actually get the books.  As far as I can tell there is no ebooks and the omnibuses are out of print.   

[Coax]

I really want to read Elric but its so damn hard to actually get the books.  As far as I can tell there is no ebooks and the omnibuses are out of print.   

Was reminded of archive.org's new digital borrowing and sure enough a variety are there available.

https://archive.org/details/texts?and[]=elric&sin=

[Himu]

Got almost to Bree before putting up today.

Got past Tom Bombadil. FYI, I was stuck on that chapter for weeks as a teenager because it bored me to death.

Now? It fascinated me and I blazed right through all of that.

The chapter is fantastic:

1. It raises the question of WHAT Tom Bombadil is. Tom is not affected by the ring, its power, does not go invisible with it on, is not tempted by it, and treats without one shred of seriousness. To him it's just a simple ring. This brings up the question of who and exactly what Tom is.

2. 14-15 year old me hated Tom for his songs. Now I love it. He just bathes in whimsical notions and lighthearted banter. I found his songs cute and funny and found myself laughing out loud at his fucking wild ass shit.

3. The chapter just oozes charm. There's a moment when the four Hobbits sleep and Frodo dreams of Gandalf escaping Saruman's tower. Pippin is awoken by random noises and wooed back to sleep by whispering, assuring voices in the dark. Merry has nightmares, given solace by a similar voice. Sam is out like a light. The line goes,"as far as he could remember, Sam slept through the night in deep content, if logs are contented." The chapter is full of charm like that.

4. The party knows and recognizes that they're safe within Tom's presence. They simply do not want to leave, and for good reason.

So far, the book the extremely well paced. There is no slog that exists.

Contrary to the trouble I had reading it as a child, I am blazing through LOTR in a way I never imagined.

Teenagers really are morons.

Btw the tension of the Riders being on the party's tail during this entire bit is fantastic. Tom's house really feels like a peaceful respite which makes the rest of Middle Earth feel all the more haunting.

[Madrun Badrun]

Your links broke

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Michael+Moorcock%22
get me

which seems like they only have 5th book (The Bane of the Black Sword) of the main 6?

edit:  https://archive.org/search.php?query=elric%20of%20melnibone

gets the 1st and 4th bookd

[Coax]

Your links broke

Yeah BBCode only formats the part up to the square brackets. The whole line needs to be copy-pasted in the URL (made a ninja edit to a separate line).

From what I can tell they have 4 of the 6 books from the Del Rey Books published chronological collection, judging from the Wikipedia about the series.

[Raist]

Got almost to Bree before putting up today.

Got past Tom Bombadil. FYI, I was stuck on that chapter for weeks as a teenager because it bored me to death.

Now? It fascinated me and I blazed right through all of that.

The chapter is fantastic:

1. It raises the question of WHAT Tom Bombadil is. Tom is not affected by the ring, its power, does not go invisible with it on, is not tempted by it, and treats without one shred of seriousness. To him it's just a simple ring. This brings up the question of who and exactly what Tom is.

2. 14-15 year old me hated Tom for his songs. Now I love it. He just bathes in whimsical notions and lighthearted banter. I found his songs cute and funny and found myself laughing out loud at his fucking wild ass shit.

3. The chapter just oozes charm. There's a moment when the four Hobbits sleep and Frodo dreams of Gandalf escaping Saruman's tower. Pippin is awoken by random noises and wooed back to sleep by whispering, assuring voices in the dark. Merry has nightmares, given solace by a similar voice. Sam is out like a light. The line goes,"as far as he could remember, Sam slept through the night in deep content, if logs are contented." The chapter is full of charm like that.

4. The party knows and recognizes that they're safe within Tom's presence. They simply do not want to leave, and for good reason.

So far, the book the extremely well paced. There is no slog that exists.

Contrary to the trouble I had reading it as a child, I am blazing through LOTR in a way I never imagined.

Teenagers really are morons.

Btw the tension of the Riders being on the party's tail during this entire bit is fantastic. Tom's house really feels like a peaceful respite which makes the rest of Middle Earth feel all the more haunting.

I liked that Tolkien never explained, even in his later letters, who or what Tom is exactly.

So he could just be a random dude who is so happy and careless that the ring has no effect on him whatsoever, or he's literally god or some shit.

[Himu]

There's also a sense that people like Tom will be affected by Sauron's forces. What does Tom have if his Forest is destroyed, God or not? Tom exists a light in a very dark tunnel in the scope of Middle Earth. His existence shows a peace worth fighting for.

[Uncle]

oh yeah the part where tom tells them that to work the wight's magic out of their system they all need to run around naked in the grass and they say    ok and the mad lads actually do it

[Himu]

The sense of adventure in this is godlike.

Tolkien is so vivid it's like you're right there with them. It's like a movie constantly going in my head while I read. This is amazing.

[Uncle]

moria is definitely the best part, holy shit the drums in the deep

I don't think the movie captured quite what it feels like reading that part

[Himu]

Moria was incredible when I originally read it

[Himu]

holy FUCK.

Aragorn was my favorite as a teen and everything in Bree is making me



The movies do not do Aragorn justice.

Mother fucking STRIDER

[Mupepe]

Moria is the best part of any of the books and the movies.

[El Babua]

Glad to see you (re)reading one of the most important cultural works in the last century Cindi.

I'll save my commentary till you finish the series.

[Himu]

This book is a goddamn masterpiece.

What was I SMOKING as a teenager??

It is literally EVERYTHING I love about rpgs in book form. The adventure, the danger, making hard decisions regarding supply. World building. Lore. Maps. It's all here.

I am taken aback at how good this is and how masterful Tolkien's writing is.

I generally read non-fiction these days. Escaping into other worlds doesn't interest me as much as when I was a teen or in my 20's. In my readings, if I do touch fiction it will usually be something extremely steeped in our world. Things like Jane Austen works or the Color Purple. Stories that although aren't real, reflect reality. Even my fantasy reading mirrors this in my love for ASOIAF, which although has dragons in it is mostly about the grit and hardness of our world. I must also confess that I tend to find sci-fi superior to fantasy in how it rouses philosophical questioning. So if I want to go into another world I have a disposition to flock to science fiction rather than fantasy.

At Weathertop and the story hasn't missed a beat. I ordered a single edition LOTR with all books in a single hardcover package and I fear that I will finish Fellowship by the time it gets here.

Woke up in the middle of the night and my mind is taken over by stories of elves and orcs.

[Himu]

One interesting thing is that there hasn't been a hint of what an Orc even is. The build up to encountering slightly more frightening monsters and dangers as they journey is incredible. Tolkien's build up

[Himu]

Flight to the Ford is incredible.

I'm not sure how I'll be able to go back to the Jackson movies.

I forgot how badass Frodo is. Squares up against the Nine at the Ford all by himself, unsheathes his sword and says,"you shall have neither the Ring nor me!"

The balls of this halfling.

Then he tries to fight them by his fucking self and his sword gets WRECKED.

Jackson's characterization of every character is utterly inferior. He continuously made Frodo a wimp and saved by other people when Gandalf and Bilbo consider him the best of Hobbits. The book makes that case; the movies don't.

Combined with making Gimli nothing but comic relief, reducing Aragorn's story to a love triangle;etc. and it's hard for me to go back to the Jackson trilogy. I'm pretty shocked that the Tolkien estate handed Jackson the Hobbit as director. When you get past the initial hype of the film trilogy, they didn't do a good job of presenting the story.

Ideally, The Lord of the Rings should have the entirety of the story put in a TV show. Fuck film, it's not the right medium. TV should be ideal. That new Amazon show hopefully will lead to the whole story being redone in TV form and Tolkien's legacy will be all the better for it.

[Raist]

Yeah, some of Jackson's choices were a bit baffling.

But let's be real, overall he did a great job. This is an adaptation that no one really wanted to remotely touch for decades - other than the crappy cartoons.

Also, wrt Orcs, don't expect any real answer, Tolkien himself kept changing his mind

[Himu]

It really depends. There have always been aspects that didn't sit well with me regarding the movies. However, i will admit that the movies do a good job of bringing Middle Earth to life I feel that they often sacrificed characterization for frivolous reasons. While everything cant be 100% and that's understandable, it makes no sense why you would undermine your main character for a love triangle for instance

[Himu]

Got my single volume edition and it's massive and hurts my poor wrists while reading.

Couldn't read much yesterday but I'm at the Council of Elrond. This bored me to death as a teen. Now I'm all



The world building, the paths of destiny as each person puts forth their case, the history of the ring, the back stories of the corners of Middle Earth...it's all so fantastic. Ended up reading it all in a sitting. Some 50 or so pages. Longest fucking chapter ever lmao

[Himu]

Finished Fellowship.

It was a fantastic read and far superior to the movie to me.

It was an easy read. The only part I didn't like was Bilbo's three page song. What the Christ. The elves were being nice. It was crap, Bilbo.

The writing is much better than I remember besides that and I delighted at any time I saw something in italics. So many stories and tales. My favorite being the story of Beren and Tinuviel. I love how Tolkien cleverly tells the tale of Aragorn and Arwen's history by using Luthien and Beren as a comparison. I also love that their story is completely under the surface and kept under wraps. It's something for the reader to look for because this is a story about Hobbits and not man.

The way the story treats Gollum is fantastic. It's creepy how he chases after the party and Frodo and how Frodo can sense him without anyone noticing. There's a mystery and great sense of foreshadowing with lends to creating immense tension. The movies were dumb by exposing Gollum chasing the party early on in Fellowship. Odd narrative decision.

Reading Two Towers now.

Rewatched Fellowship and honestly I'm not sure it aged well. The pacing is much too brisk for my liking. Such as the escape from Bree.

[Coax]

This LoTR Two Towers Battle of Helm's Deep analysis by a military historian popped up in a feed. One part in a series about this battle apparently. In-depth but enjoyable to read, looking at both the book and film portrayals, mostly chronologically, as the battle progresses, breaking it up with captioned screenshots from the film.