Tiger King

[I'm a Puppy!]

What the fuck?
What the flying fuck?
WHAT THE FUCK?!

 

[Joe Molotov]

all men are kings, king

[VomKriege]

Not to be that guy but film is inherently deceptive. I'm not sure they realized they were playing themselves into a mass hatchet job (like all those shots of the woman looking smug as shit as she walks and bikes around her property). Joe Exotic, being a self conscious prima donna, maybe ? Perhaps they all know they're weird and have thick skin. I'm not sure I'll finish this with a high opinion of the filmmakers, it's sleazy in a way and I suspect they weren't very honest in how they approached their subjects.

But it's good television.
Yoga-guru-creep has the baddest of all the vibes.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Oh that’s all true. I have a hard time calling it a “documentary “ the film maker totally had the idea and gave the people rope.

Still amazing cringe tv

[CatsCatsCats]

Do you think Carol did it?
Do you think Joe was framed/set-up?

[I'm a Puppy!]

Dunno about joe yet, but carol totally did it. I’m shocked at the ineptitude of the police.

[Human Snorenado]

I don't think he paid to have her killed, but he definitely torched his own tv studio/alligator house, killed god knows how many tigers, and was an all around terrible shitheel of a human being.

I feel like there's important information we don't know about Don Lewis that would help me make that call. But I definitely think she's more capable of murder than your average person.

They're all garbage people but I loved watching it because watching terrible people be terrible and getting to feel better about myself is one of my secret vices.

[Boredfrom]

I don't think he paid to have her killed,

 

What are you talking about, he totally did.

The question is whatever he was set up or not by Jeff.

[Boredfrom]

Not to be that guy but film is inherently deceptive. I'm not sure they realized they were playing themselves into a mass hatchet job (like all those shots of the woman looking smug as shit as she walks and bikes around her property). Joe Exotic, being a self conscious prima donna, maybe ? Perhaps they all know they're weird and have thick skin. I'm not sure I'll finish this with a high opinion of the filmmakers, it's sleazy in a way and I suspect they weren't very honest in how they approached their subjects.

But it's good television.
Yoga-guru-creep has the baddest of all the vibes.

Doesn’t sound like they planned this given the shit it happens during a that 5 year period.

[Boredfrom]

@ how the nerdy gamer campaign kid can't go a whole episode without telling the camera he's a libertarian.

You mean, the most normal guy of this documentary and the one that witness the suicide of one of Joe drug addicted husbands?

[EightBitNate]

@ how the nerdy gamer campaign kid can't go a whole episode without telling the camera he's a libertarian.

You mean, the most normal guy of this documentary and the one that witness the suicide of one of Joe drug addicted husbands?

I’m trying to think of someone more normal. It’s so odd that everyone had not just one but multiple weird quirks to them.

[Potato]

Just watched episode 2. Carol fucking did it. Absolutely. The way she rolled her eyes and laughs. Pure fucking evil.

[Potato]

Howard to the biggest giant dad I've ever seen

[VomKriege]

Not to be that guy but film is inherently deceptive. I'm not sure they realized they were playing themselves into a mass hatchet job (like all those shots of the woman looking smug as shit as she walks and bikes around her property). Joe Exotic, being a self conscious prima donna, maybe ? Perhaps they all know they're weird and have thick skin. I'm not sure I'll finish this with a high opinion of the filmmakers, it's sleazy in a way and I suspect they weren't very honest in how they approached their subjects.

But it's good television.
Yoga-guru-creep has the baddest of all the vibes.

Doesn’t sound like they planned this given the shit it happens during a that 5 year period.

You don't need to plan for specific events, like reality TV, it's maybe all editing especially if they have a lot of material. They're obviously all eccentric, borderline and colourful characters forming a very small professional community with all the old stories turning into bitter hatred and jealousy you'd  expect. But they probably knew before actually shooting that Carole's husband was missing in suspect circumstances or that Yoga dude was running a weird polygamy/sect/zoo and that they are probably feigning surprise when they edit this to give the impression they learn all that from the gossip in interviews. But who knows ? I wasn't there.

Maybe it's the true crime visual and music tics just rubbing me the wrong way.

Again, it's not like I'm not watching, it's very effective and certainly something. Those people are truly larger than life and exceptional.

[brawndolicious]

Carol did it. Joe tried to do it. It's only noteworthy because it seems being into big cats makes people take really bad care of their body and soul.

Not to be that guy but film is inherently deceptive. I'm not sure they realized they were playing themselves into a mass hatchet job (like all those shots of the woman looking smug as shit as she walks and bikes around her property). Joe Exotic, being a self conscious prima donna, maybe ? Perhaps they all know they're weird and have thick skin. I'm not sure I'll finish this with a high opinion of the filmmakers, it's sleazy in a way and I suspect they weren't very honest in how they approached their subjects.

But it's good television.
Yoga-guru-creep has the baddest of all the vibes.

Doesn’t sound like they planned this given the shit it happens during a that 5 year period.

You don't need to plan for specific events, like reality TV, it's maybe all editing especially if they have a lot of material. They're obviously all eccentric, borderline and colourful characters forming a very small professional community with all the old stories turning into bitter hatred and jealousy you'd  expect. But they probably knew before actually shooting that Carole's husband was missing in suspect circumstances or that Yoga dude was running a weird polygamy/sect/zoo and that they are probably feigning surprise when they edit this to give the impression they learn all that from the gossip in interviews. But who knows ? I wasn't there.

Maybe it's just the true crime visual and music tics just rubbing me the wrong way.

Again, it's not like I'm not watching, it's very effective and certainly something. Those people are truly larger than life and exceptional.

At worst, I think there might be a piece of charcoal in a barrel of shit. You can debate whether Joe's $3,000 dollar hit was entrapment or if Carole had some exonerating evidence that shows she didn't kill her husband or steal his estate, but they probably did it. The self-titled "Doc" Antle was absolutely doing a white R. Kelly thing and Jeff's fashion choices were pretty heinous.

They're all fucking guilty as fuck, allegedly.

[Potato]

Sometimes watching trash people be even more trash than you thought they were is entertaining. Sometimes it's not.

In this case, it's fucking gripping.

[curly]

The filmmakers most certainly violated all kinds of ethics stuff documentarians are supposed to care about but damn

Even the bit characters are so good, like Howard, the Libertarian campaign manager, the keeper who got her arm bit off and immediately went back to work

Also imo Carole maybe killed her husband, Joe got set up by Jeff but probably still tried to have Carole killed at some other point

One thing I really didn't like were the reenactments, very schlocky

[Ghoul]

@ how the nerdy gamer campaign kid can't go a whole episode without telling the camera he's a libertarian.

When it said he was arrested for having a katana in public... I was like this adds up.

[VomKriege]

I only had one reenactment so far (Carole meeting her late [allegedly] husband) so I'm not surprised, that's not a device you'll use only once in that sort of program if you do it. Definitely the biggest formalistic faux-pas. Most of it is pretty slick (as most other Netflix shows like it) even if at heart it's trashy.

The "Property of Joe Exotic" tattoo also pretty high for

[Potato]

Every single person in this story is a piece of shit except maybe the woman who got her arm bitten off.

[Human Snorenado]

@ how the nerdy gamer campaign kid can't go a whole episode without telling the camera he's a libertarian.

You mean, the most normal guy of this documentary and the one that witness the suicide of one of Joe drug addicted husbands?

I’m trying to think of someone more normal. It’s so odd that everyone had not just one but multiple weird quirks to them.

The lady who only showed up in episode 2 and was in Doc Antle's tiger sex cult harem for 8 years before escaping seemed pretty normal when she was interviewed, but she also ran away to join a tiger sex cult when she was like, 19, so

[Potato]

Didn't her father drive her to join the tiger sex cult and his only advice was, "don't fall in love with your boss"?

[Cerveza mas fina]

The King Tiger was really too heavy and quite prone to braking down. It has this mythical aura but in retrospect I don't rate it. People learned ro flank it fast.

[Great Rumbler]

The King Tiger was really too heavy and quite prone to braking down. It has this mythical aura but in retrospect I don't rate it. People learned ro flank it fast.

You been hittin' the sauce, bruh...?

[naff]

the filmmakers definitely hated Joe, Jeff, Doc Antle and Baskin with a passion. not a pretty light, but they all deserve it. I got a bit gutted during the episode where they really focussed on Joe's relationships, how he manipulated Travis and Jon and how they were basically prisoners on the compound. Joe is so fucked up. I wish Jeff got a bit more fucked, him and Antle were my most hated characters.

[benjipwns]

The King Tiger was really too heavy and quite prone to braking down. It has this mythical aura but in retrospect I don't rate it. People learned ro flank it fast.

FACT CHECK:

It is also known under the informal name Königstiger[7] (the German name for the Bengal tiger), often translated literally as Royal Tiger, or somewhat incorrectly as King Tiger by Allied soldiers, especially by American forces

[thisismyusername]

Not to be that guy but film is inherently deceptive. I'm not sure they realized they were playing themselves into a mass hatchet job (like all those shots of the woman looking smug as shit as she walks and bikes around her property). Joe Exotic, being a self conscious prima donna, maybe ? Perhaps they all know they're weird and have thick skin. I'm not sure I'll finish this with a high opinion of the filmmakers, it's sleazy in a way and I suspect they weren't very honest in how they approached their subjects.

But it's good television.
Yoga-guru-creep has the baddest of all the vibes.

Sounds like S-town, but that isn't a hatchet job. Just people knowing they're doing a documentary and being themselves.

[benjipwns]

[jakefromstatefarm]

Every single person in this story is a piece of shit except maybe the woman who got her arm bitten off.

i liked don’s attorney

[Potato]

Every single person in this story is a piece of shit except maybe the woman who got her arm bitten off.

i liked don’s attorney

I agree, but he was more of a support character.

[curly]

The crackhead would-be assassin is what I imagine filler is like irl

[Boredfrom]

All things considered, I think they made Joe seem like a sympathetic entertainer. A lot of the negative things were played off as funny and they really went as far as "he could've been joking, but idunno"

They definitely sided with a lot of his theories, and they pulled too many simp cards in the last episode. Moreso than usual with the editing-in of early primate freeing etc.

The Carole Baskin/Murder-For-Hire episodes are both conspiracies that they followed through mainly on the word and perspective of Joe.

Edit:Also there's more re:campaign for governor, his mom, having the park taken from him etc.

I dunno about Carole Baskin episode being entirely based at Joe perspective given that she altering her husband will is just straight out scumbag behavior.

[Boredfrom]

When discussing the plot to kill Carole Baskin, objectively he bartered her death in an entrapment scheme. Despite this, the filmmakers paint out a plot to get Joe. They cut to footage of people claiming it was entrapment, the plot to murder Carole Baskin mainly had the camera's focus of the ring of felons who organized this and got away scot-free etc.

My impression is that the filmmakers are implicit that should have been charged for something if they actually set Joe up rather than Joe being innocent. The idea that they will get what is coming to them later by the feds is kind of hard to shallow. Many of the interviewers also admit that Joe is a scumbag and stopped caring for the animals at the zoo and deserved being at jail, just that Jeff Lowe and that other fat guy were also scumbags and “played” the system.

[Boredfrom]

 

[Boredfrom]

 My  was not because I’m surprised by the opinion of Twitter, but the why should I care about the opinion of twitter users?

[Boredfrom]

Because I feel like those who watched this without a critical eye are more influenced by the intentionality and editing of the film, which IMO, was softer on Joe than they could’ve been and was biased at times even in favor of Joe.

I.E. showing Joe serving out food for a kid as libertarian says he was entrapped.

Again... why should I care for this, specially since a episode before the filmmakers implied that Joe used the expired food from Walmart to make food for his restaurant. Bad interpretations at twitter or other social platforms are not exactly surprising to me. The documentary does indeed make Joe likeable to an extent, but I don’t think is as clear you are making and has more to do with people being people.

[Boredfrom]

I don’t hate Joe. He is a scumbag human being and deserves to be rotting at jail, but I don’t hate him

[shosta]

[Potato]

If you think the filmmakers were soft on Joe, I think you're confusing being soft on him with him just being a naturally charismatic guy...well, the most charismatic of the various scumbags involved in this whole documentary.
 
You couldn't help but cheer for Joe because his way of presenting his own story was that of David vs Goliath or Joe vs The Man. They gave you everything you needed to work out that Joe was a complete scumbag, just like the rest of them.

[shosta]

You couldn't help but cheer for Joe because his way of presenting his own story was that of David vs Goliath or Joe vs The Man.

in the first episode he mails Carol Baskin snakes, threatens a Waco style shooting against the local police, and fires a grenade launcher at an effigy

[VomKriege]

You couldn't help but cheer for Joe because his way of presenting his own story was that of David vs Goliath or Joe vs The Man.

in the first episode he mails Carol Baskin snakes, threatens a Waco style shooting against the local police, and fires a grenade launcher at an effigy

I don't think it's established that he sent the snakes though it's most likely him or someone who watched his videos.

[shosta]

It's not established that she actually received them either but he definitely recorded the tough guy threat

[VomKriege]

It's not established that she actually received them either but he definitely recorded the tough guy threat

And some people want to split the difference and say "oh, well, I don't trust Carol per se, so who knows? We may never find out." Like YOU, Shosta. You're doing that! Stop it! It's not helpful and it's not actually the rational opinion.

[chronovore]

So… do I need to watch this, or just follow this thread without full context?

Because it all sounds crazy.

[shosta]

yeah you need to watch it

[Uncle]

the keeper who got her arm bit off and immediately went back to work

Every single person in this story is a piece of shit except maybe the woman who got her arm bitten off.

HIS arm

[Potato]

There's at least one "true crime" documentary underway into the death of Don Lewis.

[Potato]

the keeper who got her arm bit off and immediately went back to work

Every single person in this story is a piece of shit except maybe the woman who got her arm bitten off.

HIS arm

You know, I'm not going to get worked up about it if he isn't and neither should anyone else.

While there were no standout comments on Saff's gender identity, he revealed in interviews with Out magazine and Esquire that he had been misgendered - yet was characteristically unfazed by the issue.

Speaking to Out, he said: 'I've always gone by 'him' since I could say that out loud. If people are asking me what I prefer, it's very obvious what I prefer, and that's he.


'I'm not going to tell anyone what they need to or should call me. I think that everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and I'm obviously as easygoing in that department as I can get.

'I don't think that I personally get offended I think others do. I think everyone should stand up for what they believe in. I just – it's literally one of the last things that I really considered worrying about.'

Furthering his comments to Esquire, Saff went on: 'On a daily basis, I am called 17 different things. I never really took it to heart. I love being able to speak on this…

'Obviously it's not something that I've even actively participated in ever, so, for context, my conversation with Rob was that he asked me, 'What do you prefer? Saff or Kelci?' And of course I said Saff because that's what I've been called for the past 20 years.

[Madrun Badrun]

Watched the first two episodes with friends, this shit is insane. 

[VomKriege]

Up to episode 5 now. Props to the editors because they really hid their cards well about how bad things really get. Still has that sleazy feeling to it (honestly the "case" against Carol and her missing husband... is not exactly very strong as far as the actual murder thing goes) and it throws a lot of factoids it doesn't really dig into, but Joe Exotic's path get so fucking wild it's hard not to be raptured.

Making the funeral of his husband all about himself may be the worst bit yet.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Narration : ...Joe couldn't think of anything else than finding a new partner.
My friend : He only mourned for three weeks, amirite ?
Narration : ...his new marriage was celebrated 2 months after.
My friend :

[close]

[Valkyrie]

Binged this in a day, what a fucking train wreck.

Absolutely loved every second of it.

Carol definitely did it.

[VomKriege]

Finished it. The extra episode they did with some guy from "Community" checking in via videocall with some of the major people in the doc didn't really help as far as the sleaze is concerned ("biggest documentary ever made" calm your horses son). Really felt super patronizing in the way it smirked at the people they covered.

Ultimately I feel the focus is all over the place, doc doesn't really dig that deep on a lot of stuff (like why monkey man and Undertaker man fell through) and the way they play fast and loose with the chronology (like Joe giving up his chimps, to take a minor example) and presenting events is both masterful and dishonest as fuck. Though I'm glad Meth-teeth fan and the three employees (Big Lebowski and the two that lost limbs) seemed like they were in a better place. Blonde dude being wasted out of his mind in the last interview was a bit  .

Not to take away anything from the makers because they filmed (or cribbed archives) A LOT to get that material but I think it's really the subjects / characters being so out there that makes this.

[Pissy F Benny]

them putting the gorilla bit, which was one of joes more human moments, in it towards the end was some dodgy shit for sure.

[VomKriege]

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/bonus-a-conversation-about-tiger-king-61158053/

Not so much about Tiger King, more first hand account of rural life & excentriques.

[Cheddahz]

Jeff Lowe used to own a business where I live and can confirm the dude is an asshole who doesn't know how to type

[chronovore]

So… do I need to watch this, or just follow this thread without full context?

Because it all sounds crazy.

yeah you need to watch it

OK, I watched it, including the Joel McHale follow-up.

First off, Saff is a flawed hero. I'm not sure what he went through that had him living with those assholes for so long, clearly he's broken somewhere, but his heart is absolutely in the right place. Same with The Dude and The Prosthetic Captain NASCAR. They're broken, but it seems like they want to be good people. Is it simply Joe Exotic's charisma that kept them tethered to the zoo for so long?

This documentary really managed to keep me on the hook. The reveals just never stopped, and each one just had me more perplexed that these are real people from my country.

Jeff Lowe is clearly a dirtbag. How anyone, especially Joe, thought that Lowe was going to save any of them is a complete mystery.

Baghavad is running a sex cult. That's it. I hope he's played by Tim Robbins in the eventual movie adaptation -- but I don't think there'll be one, because this whole thing is benefiting from quarantine focus.

I'm not convinced that Baskin offed her husband. Mostly, yes, but not entirely. The guy was fond of hiding money. No-one had any idea of how much money he had. He either feared Carole or wanted people to think he was. He set up strange language in his will, etc. But with no eyes on his actual money, it's possible he just disappeared to get away from Carole.

It was compelling TV.

[VomKriege]

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/joe-exotic-nicolas-cage-series-tiger-king-1234574979/

 

[VomKriege]

Legal Eagle YouTube channel has two videos about Tiger King :
https://youtu.be/BbePI5_OijY
https://youtu.be/n4F8ICKZ9VM

I don't remember in which part he covered this but he looked into the rap sheets of some of the people in the doc. Nothing too surprising, but I think he mentions that Don's personal assistant had a couple run-ins with the law herself. Feels a bit major to omit that when Carol supposedly breaking in to seize the will is arguably the most convincing bit they leverage at her.

On a second read I'll say I don't disagree with 213372bu : Joe Exotic is a big piece of trash but it's not mutually exclusive with the filmmakers softening the portrayal a bit, out of fear of having too much of a despicable protagonist or just to play up the facade before revealing how shit he is (with regards to his husbands, in particular).

[ToxicAdam]

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/joe-exotic-nicolas-cage-series-tiger-king-1234574979/

 

I don’t need a recreation, they need to push it out further. Joe Exotic, Nazi Vampire Hunter.

[chronovore]

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/florida-sheriff-confirms-will-forged-carole-baskin-husband-1234624459/

While Chronister could confirm the will was forged, he explained how the statuette of limitations leaves options limited for pursuing legal action, as the will has already been executed.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

While Chronister could confirm the will was forged, he explained how the statuette of limitations leaves options limited for pursuing legal action, as the will has already been executed.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

[close]