It's amazing how GTAIV has been forgotten to time

[Himu]

I see it's been covered, but this game sucked so much major ass it's insane. It single handedly made me ignore review scores for any game going forward, so some good came out of it.

GTA SA is one of my favorite games ever, I still play and enjoy the shit out of it. And they followed it up on way better tech with the highest budget a game could have with a fucking cellphone interrupting you and fucking up what is usually the same trash mission layout over and over.

I truly feel this game was the death knell to game reviews. Perfect 10's across the board and turns out people were bought, wined and dined in lavish hotels, and only got to play 4 hours total.

12 years later, most people don't give a fuck about game reviews. Oh, they still matter to fanboys and fangirls playing the wars they'll always play. But most people seem to refer to word of mouth or youtubers more than gaming press now.

[Great Rumbler]

A game so forgettable that many people poured into this thread to hate on it 

You can call GTA IV shitty, but it isn't forgettable. I think something gamers should do a lot more often is instead of propping up personal negative feelings like they're meaningful analysis and criticism, and instead ask....why do people enjoy this game?

People are talking about it because it's pertinent to thread discussion.

It's good to see you've become the ultimate GTA gatekeeper and have taken in all internets into your mind, to conclude that yes, GTA IV is forgettable. Based on evidence that is definitely not anecdotal or subjective. 

How do you measure "forgettable"? Is it based on shitty resetera threads or is it based on reddit posts? 4chan posts?

I'd argue truly forgettable games are probably mobile or indie games that two people globally have downloaded, not a game that sold millions of copies.

It's probably been years since the last time I thought about GTA4 and only thought about it now because I saw this thread.

[thisismyusername]

It's good to see you've become the ultimate GTA gatekeeper and have taken in all internets into your mind, to conclude that yes, GTA IV is forgettable. Based on evidence that is definitely not anecdotal or subjective. 

How do you measure "forgettable"? Is it based on shitty resetera threads or is it based on reddit posts? 4chan posts?

I'd argue truly forgettable games are probably mobile or indie games that two people globally have downloaded, not a game that sold millions of copies.

I really don't see too much nostalgia "DAE play/remember GTA4?" threads on reddit/etc. Sometimes they pop-up and "NIKO MY COUSIN LET'S GO BOWLING" memes happen, but the actual... I don't know the word... "remembrance?" of it is "oh, yeah, that happened."

[bluemax]

"I don't want to be a killer anymore."

"Hi Nico, I just met you and I'm a grade A asshole, can you kill some people for me?"

"Okay"

That, the stupid cousin and the driving just feeling so bad compared to Saints Row 2. I've never finished a single GTA, but IV is probably the one I played the least.

Edit: Actually I think I finished Vice City, I vaguely remember getting to the end. I know I got to fake Vegas in GTASA before burning out.

San Andreas is still the best. Even though it's fugly as fuck it hits a sweet spot as far as world scope and Rockstar charm. IV just felt sterile.

I bought SA on PSN last year for a few bucks. It's still relatively fun but fuck the control scheme is bad. I felt like I had to unlearn years of control schemes and UI patterns to get into it.

[Great Rumbler]

It wasn't until a year later that the "next gen GTA" polish wore off and the flaws became more clear.

Nah, I made a post two days after release about how I realized that GTAIV wasn't as good as Saints Row or Crackdown.

[EchoRin]

It wasn't until a year later that the "next gen GTA" polish wore off and the flaws became more clear.

Nah, I made a post two days after release about how I realized that GTAIV wasn't as good as Saints Row or Crackdown.

2 days in dog years is like 6 months at least no?

[Rahxephon91]

Eh I don't think it's been that forgotten. I mean it's mostly a single player game and it's not like those are going to keep the spotlight on them without a re-release. Which hasn't happen, but I bet a $40 remaster on modern consoles would do pretty well. Either way it's little memes like "cousin!!" and whatnot live on. Also with some qol of life fixes and some changes to shooting and driving, I bet people would like it more. I say this because honestly, Red Dead 2 feels like a sequel to GTA4. What I mean is the attention to detail and immersion over "fun" that I felt was addressed in Gay Toney and GTA5 was followed up in Red Dead 2. I mean I like Red Dead 2, but to me it has felt like Rockstar said "fuck you people for not liking GTA4" with that game. Red Dead 2 really feels like the spiritual successor to GTA4 in many ways.

That said, I don't really like GTA4. I don't dislike it like a lot of people. When it comes to open world I value a well realized world with plenty of atmosphere. I also prefer to follow the story missions and hope they don't feel copy and pasted. In GTA4's case I enjoyed the world and detail, but the missions while not copy and paste fluff like a Ubisoft game, were still mostly boring. While also featuring a story that thought it had way more emotional depth then it did. In that case Red Dead 2 is a lot better.

Also I don't know, the game has a strange art direction. Slightly cartoony almost like a claymation look, but still realistic. Really brown and grey. It's not super attractive.  RDR2 and GTAV are far more pleasing to look at.

[mormapope]

A game so forgettable that many people poured into this thread to hate on it 

You can call GTA IV shitty, but it isn't forgettable. I think something gamers should do a lot more often is instead of propping up personal negative feelings like they're meaningful analysis and criticism, and instead ask....why do people enjoy this game?

People are talking about it because it's pertinent to thread discussion.

It's good to see you've become the ultimate GTA gatekeeper and have taken in all internets into your mind, to conclude that yes, GTA IV is forgettable. Based on evidence that is definitely not anecdotal or subjective. 

How do you measure "forgettable"? Is it based on shitty resetera threads or is it based on reddit posts? 4chan posts?

I'd argue truly forgettable games are probably mobile or indie games that two people globally have downloaded, not a game that sold millions of copies.

It's probably been years since the last time I thought about GTA4 and only thought about it now because I saw this thread.

Fair enough, 2008 also was a really strong year for that gen and PS3 owners finally got MGS4.

 

If GTA IV made some of you forever doubt game reviews, MGS4 reviews were basically PS3 ads out in the open.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

What happened with Jeff Gerstmann and his Kane and Lynch review, getting fired from Gamespot, that was genuinely fucked up.

[close]

Here's a reminder of MGS4'S praise

 

Indeed, Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots shatters the proverbial bar, becoming a technical, cinematic and gaming standard that future action and stealth titles will be judged by. It's been a long time coming, but this game is a true classic and a masterpiece from Hideo Kojima, Kojima Productions and Konami. 

 

Metal Gear Solid 4 is an awe-inspiring synthesis of dramatic storytelling and entertaining gameplay. ... It's also a fine example of storytelling prowess within its medium, combining gameplay and narrative so slickly and beautifully that it's impossible to extricate one from the other.

As the crowning achievement of the series' 20-year history, Hideo Kojima's final Metal Gear Solid title may not be what you expect, but it is everything you could hope for in a video game. 

The most satisfying entry in the entire series. Its scope and emotion are heretofore unmatched in the medium of videogaming (my sister and I were literally screaming at the screen during the climax in a high-temperature corridor), it wraps up two decades of series mythology, and what gameplay there is, is damned satisfying in how it complements the story."

[Positive Touch]

iirc early reviewers were not allowed to talk about cutscene length, load times, or the ending, so yay for being first i guess

[Joe Molotov]

Ballad of Gay Tony > GTA IV

[EchoRin]

Well the funny thing there is that even if you want to call out the 10 out 10 type reviews, when it came to MGS4, that game still won GAF game of the year. Twice haha. I don't even mind, because whatever, but it was funny that the whole reason it started was because people were mad and thought it would be different. People probably thought that game would be seen less positively with time gone by sort of like GTA4, but no no. That re-GOTY thread was pretty funny just because the premise behind it was to "remedy the past" and it blew up in their faces (well those who were hellbent on making some other game take the crown. As if that really mattered).

Me personally, yeah I place it at the end of the MGS1-4 pack. Though that's neither here nor there.

The stories of Shane "Mangod" "Sony" Bettenhausen talking about the review process for that game was something else. Good ol 1UP Yours stories.

[Himu]

The trifecta of disappointment: MGS4, FFXIII, and GTAIV. Never again.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

The trifecta of disappointment: MGS4, FFXIII, and GTAIV. Never again.

Didn't you kickstart shenmue 3?

[porkbun]

You guys play these games for gameplay?

I just ride around and listen to music

I'll do that in 5 online, I also use it to talk to some of my friends.  But I do enjoy playing through the story missions a lot.  I recently replayed Liberty City Stories and am currently doing another playthrough of Vice City.

[Himu]

The trifecta of disappointment: MGS4, FFXIII, and GTAIV. Never again.

Didn't you kickstart shenmue 3?

That's nothing compared to three I mentioned. Three top dogs in prior generation having a massive fall from grace. Shenmue III isn't even a blip. FFXIII is the most disappointing game I've ever played.

[mormapope]

To Rockstar's credit, Red Dead Redemption coming out two years later and immediately being a classic, rectified negative feelings about GTA IV.

Mainline, single player Final Fantasy hasn't been beloved arguably since FFVII Remake (FFXV has a lot of criticism from a lot of people). Metal Gear wasn't back in full force until MGSV. Metal Gear Rising and the HD collection were the only great Metal Gear things since Subsistence.

[Himu]

TLAD and Gay Tony tied with RDR made up for GTAIV. GTAIV also had the benefit of rad multiplayer. I was still playing that on pc well after release. GTAIV is easily the best game of the three. It was a disappointing game but not even on the same level as MGS4 and FFXIII in hindsight.

One thing is that RDR did a lot of the same things that GTAIV did but better. It also had strangers, more physics oriented transport. It was a better sim game than IV. I think IV was just the wrong game to follow up San Andreas with. SA was all about being able to do anything. Now you couldn't do anything. It was a step back and I don't think anyone was into GTA for simulations and if they are I feel they're a niche part of the audience.

[thisismyusername]

To Rockstar's credit, Red Dead Redemption coming out two years later and immediately being a classic, rectified negative feelings about GTA IV.

Mainline, single player Final Fantasy hasn't been beloved arguably since FFVII Remake (FFXV has a lot of criticism from a lot of people). Metal Gear wasn't back in full force until MGSV. Metal Gear Rising and the HD collection were the only great Metal Gear things since Subsistence.

Metal Gear: AC!D 1/2 Metal Gear Solid (5): Peace Walker.

[Himu]

Doesn't peacewalker suck

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

its controls are clunky because it was for the PSP, but if you could play MonHun you can play PW.

It was the game that introduced Fultonning into the series, which as everyone now knows after MGSV is the second most fun mechanic in the MGS series.
(The first is holdups, introduced in MGS2)

[Rahxephon91]

Peace Walker is garbage. MGS hasn’t been good since 3.

[Joe Molotov]

Another beautiful picture of GTA, before the disease of modernism.

[Positive Touch]

penis walker is good shit. it's a handheld mgsv.

[Rahxephon91]

Hows is PW good shit?

Awful balance.
Shitty boss battles without even MGS personality. It's like they realized they ran out of ideas with the bosses in 4 and were like fuck it.
Shit boss battles and awful balance that leads to grinding through boring ass missions.
Crappy main missions with brain dead AI and awful level design.
A terrible story that continues to shit on MGS3 with some of the worst support characters in all the games.
And if you play the HD version you now have the easiest brainddead MGS game.

And yeah it did influence MGS5. For the fucking worst.
Awful boss battles? Check.
Univentive boss characters? Check.
Tedious open world? Check.
Boring mission design? Check.
Grindy structure? Check
Retcon story that continues to shit on MGS3? Check.
A story that further

The series died so hard after 3. It's sad that Rising has been the best Metal Gear game since 3. God I hate these games.

[Positive Touch]

it's fun

[Coffee Dog]

Peacewalker is basically irrelevant now that mgsv exists tbh. It threw out the story, level design, and bosses wholeheartedly, but the upside was that it came with a wacky terrorist warlord sim attached to it. MGSV does that same offshore warlord sim stuff with actual not-psp money thrown at it and as such peace walker just comes off like a proof of concept.

[El Babua]

I remember playing GTA4 on a friend's 360 when it came out and was blown away by the graphics - granted, he was playing on one of the few HD CRTs, so the game looked way better there than it did on my LCD TV running on PS3

But I got the aforementioned TV and PS3 a month early because of GTA4 when I was planning to get the 80GB BC PS3 with MGS4.

Stuff immediately felt weird after you got to control Niko. Why would a guy who doesn't really want to cause trouble anymore freely allowed to steal cars the first chance you get to roam around freely? Why do these cars all drive like shit? Why is the game so damn blurry? Also being bothered to hang out with people and play boring minigames (pool was fun). One positive aspect during the first couple hours was the story being as entertaining as it was until you go into hiding in the Bronx or whatever it's called in the game. Then it's just downhill without any fun side stuff besides the assassination missions.

[bluemax]

its controls are clunky because it was for the PSP, but if you could play MonHun you can play PW.

It was the game that introduced Fultonning into the series, which as everyone now knows after MGSV is the second most fun mechanic in the MGS series.
(The first is holdups, introduced in MGS2)

Portable Ops had Fultonning before Peace Walker.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I know no one cares but:

GTAIV has all the hallmarks of a great game, but within hours of booting it up it was already frustrating as fuck.
-No easy way to restart missions in a normal way
-fucking social calls all the time
-crap controls

Now I know that the restart thing was fixed later if I'm correct but at launch this game was poo poo beyond the great city etc.

That said ALL Rockstar games have horrible controls and there really is no excuse anymore post PS2 (where the novelty of the open world masked this issues to a large degree). RDR2, GTA5, all the shooting controls like dogshit. To this day I am amazed they can churn out these 200 million dollar games with such bad and unfun controls. Like hire one person that worked on a 3tps like gears or uncharted and fix this shit plz.

They are going for some faux realism I guess but it doesnt feel natural, the button layout and mechanics are shit and its just NOT FUN.

[EchoRin]

They have that obsession of making the player move in "human way" rather than left means left immediately. Left in a post GTA4 world means character moves left by first moving one foot forward, then starts to pivot and then finally on the third step will be facing left.

This doesn't quite bother me so much in GTA4 and 5, but it was annoying in Max Payne 3. I didn't need Max to move as arcadey as in MP1 and 2, but that 3 step turning process was annoying. Needed him to move more immediately like say in Gears of War which Max Payne 3 is somewhat similar to with how cover and shoot is the name of the game.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yes this delay is infuriating. The design choice is also weird since the game is so arcadey already!

I don't remember it being an issue in Max Payne 3 though, maybe overall the shooting was so good that I didn't notice.

[EchoRin]

Yes this delay is infuriating. The design choice is also weird since the game is so arcadey already!

I don't remember it being an issue in Max Payne 3 though, maybe overall the shooting was so good that I didn't notice.

I would say so. I played it on PC so I can't speak on how they implemented analog aiming (I mean I know it's not snap on lock on lol. I mean is it tight like CoD or super airy and imprecise like Perfect Dark Zero), but the shooting seemed very good to me. I felt more hindered by my movement rather than my aim.

I know a lot of people enjoy shitting on Cliff Blezinski, but I'll always remember him talking to the 1UP crew at some event for the 1UP Show and he spoke how the most important thing is how it feels to move your character. I think he was maybe bringing up Mario games as an example of how it just feels good to move around as Mario. So at least as far as Gears 1 is concerned, how your character moved was very important to Cliffy so that it felt "good".

[thisismyusername]

Peacewalker is basically irrelevant now that mgsv exists tbh. It threw out the story, level design, and bosses wholeheartedly, but the upside was that it came with a wacky terrorist warlord sim attached to it. MGSV does that same offshore warlord sim stuff with actual not-psp money thrown at it and as such peace walker just comes off like a proof of concept.

...No?

-No open world
-Story isn't rushed bullshit that got cut at the 11th hour into a hacked-eyed mess (Phantom Pains ending, oh god)
-Mission design sets out for what it was attempting to do (be a portable experience that co-op'd)
-Short mission structures

Peace Walker does what Phantom Pain set-out to do farrrr better than Phantom Pain. I partially blame this on the Konami fiasco, but it's clear Phantom Pain wanted to expand Peace Walkers "build Mother Base" and recruitment (Fulton system) side-gaming, but did it really poorly. The one good thing I'll say about Phantom Pain's "enhancement" is that it made recruiting less a chore.

Also all of you skipping right over AC!D 1/2.

its controls are clunky because it was for the PSP, but if you could play MonHun you can play PW.

It was the game that introduced Fultonning into the series, which as everyone now knows after MGSV is the second most fun mechanic in the MGS series.
(The first is holdups, introduced in MGS2)

Portable Ops had Fultonning before Peace Walker.

No, it didn't. It had the very tedious "grab a guard and drag them to a card-board box where one of your team is waiting" recruiting system. That's why the Fulton system was introduced in Peace Walker.

PS: Portable Ops is shit. Folks want to hate on Peace Walker? Go fucking play that one, at least Peace Walker played well for a PSP title.

[Rahxephon91]

I played both and both are terrible. It’s a real shame to me that they didn’t make an old style controlled MGS on the PSP. Would have been perfect instead of forcing the TPS controls that obviously didn’t fit the system. Would have made far better games. With good controls PW is not only still bad, but also beyond easy. Which then really makes the shit design of the unbalanced gameplay stand out.

[Positive Touch]

everyone who likes metal gear must go play ghost babel. all supposed fans are posers until they complete it and appreciate its majesty

[BisMarckie]

everyone who likes metal gear must go play ghost babel. all supposed fans are posers until they complete it and appreciate its majesty

I would have thrown my Game Boy against the wall during that cardboard box conveyer belt thing if I didn't play it on an emulator.

[Positive Touch]

ok that is the one shitty part

[benjipwns]

What'd you throw against the wall instead?

[Himu]

I think one reason GTAIV has been forgotten is that it was never re-released this generation. V has been so they continue to live. But IV is I, 2, and London status to most people partly because it feels like Rockstar considers it lesser. Even R* treats V with more respect and care. That's not to say Gta online doesn't a part in that but are you telling me GTAIV wouldn't benefit from a next gen port with more stable frame rate and better graphics? Yet nothing. Nada. Only V gets the love.

[BisMarckie]

What'd you throw against the wall instead?

My dignity by looking at a guide

[Himu]

I think one reason GTAIV has been forgotten is that it was never re-released this generation. V has been so they continue to live. But IV is I, 2, and London status to most people partly because it feels like Rockstar considers it lesser. Even R* treats V with more respect and care. That's not to say Gta online doesn't a part in that but are you telling me GTAIV wouldn't benefit from a next gen port with more stable frame rate and better graphics? Yet nothing. Nada. Only V gets the love.

I hate IV too but V is like the most successful entertainment product of all time and still makes more money than anything else. So yeah, of course it does.

Of course. But I'm saying, even last gen they gave the III trilogy ports.

[Rahxephon91]

They also haven't ported Red Dead Redemption. I think a lack of ports is either technical issues, resource issues, management issues, or a combination of all. I don't think it has anything with viewing a game as lesser.

I think the 3 trilogy ports (which I hear are mediocre) happen because they ported them to ios and probably just said why not to other systems.

Also did'nt they make a better PC version without GFW recently?

[Himu]

It's not better. You have to download their service to even play it even if you have it on steam. I dled it the other day and wanted to play gay tony and had to dl, install, and sign up for their service to use something I already own. If anything it's worse than gfw.

[eleuin]

ok but that IV next gen shine though 

euphoria physics 

the way cars handled 

[Positive Touch]

they did take the time to redo some of 4's soundtrack for the 10th anniversary, so that's something

[El Babua]

I think there was an update this week to bring the songs back that they removed lol

Also, I remembered the IGN review and



"Worth three hundred bucks!"

[curly]

The intro alone is just 

[chronovore]

There is no reason to port GTA IV to current generation systems, particularly when GTA Online has proven an unstoppable cash cow for them. Why put out something that would dilute their playing audience, distracting them with something that does not generate income for them?

For the same reason, they could easily take the maps of Liberty City and port them into the GTA V engine with reasonable ease. At least “ease” in comparison to porting the entire game over. But again we encounter the same question: why do something which costs money, when it will distract from the centralized online activity, unified location, which is inherently improved by having more players in one area?

[Rahxephon91]

Well I mean isn't the simple reason more money and possibly hitting other demographics?

I mean Activision released a Remaster of Modern Warfare 2 while Modern Warfare/Warzone are still very hot. What was the point of that beyond making money on people's nostalgia or maybe new interests in the series? There was also a lame DLC type incentive for current MW if you bought the remaster. So cross promotion was used.

So to answer the question the why is it is a pretty sound investment. I find it hard to believe a GTA4 Port wouldn't also sell great and would also provide a game thats going to be able to sell for a while. You also get buy in from possibly lapsed GTA players(people my age) who aren't actively engaging with the brand as 5 Online may not be there thing. You also leverage those GTA5 fans and offer some cross promotion and get them to buy the game. I'm not convinced releasing basically a novelty version would take them away from the main course for a significant amount of time.

[chronovore]

The point is, the monetization model is different. GTA V Online makes giant screaming wodges of cash for Rockstar, while GTA IV's online modes have no additional monetization. Putting out something equivalent that makes them no money and requires work to do so seems like a non-starter.

I /will/ concede that I'd also like to play in Liberty City. Especially with the improved controls of V over IV's. I'm just telling you, as a guy who's worked in game development for 25 years, why it's not going to happen while they're still making money on GTA Online.

[MMaRsu]

I know no one cares but:

GTAIV has all the hallmarks of a great game, but within hours of booting it up it was already frustrating as fuck.
-No easy way to restart missions in a normal way
-fucking social calls all the time
-crap controls

Now I know that the restart thing was fixed later if I'm correct but at launch this game was poo poo beyond the great city etc.

That said ALL Rockstar games have horrible controls and there really is no excuse anymore post PS2 (where the novelty of the open world masked this issues to a large degree). RDR2, GTA5, all the shooting controls like dogshit. To this day I am amazed they can churn out these 200 million dollar games with such bad and unfun controls. Like hire one person that worked on a 3tps like gears or uncharted and fix this shit plz.

They are going for some faux realism I guess but it doesnt feel natural, the button layout and mechanics are shit and its just NOT FUN.

You must be using the lockon aim, switch to free aim and standard fps controls for both gta v and rdr2 and they instantly control a whole lot better.

You can even click in the stick to run . No more tapping X

[Himu]

The point is, the monetization model is different. GTA V Online makes giant screaming wodges of cash for Rockstar, while GTA IV's online modes have no additional monetization. Putting out something equivalent that makes them no money and requires work to do so seems like a non-starter.

I /will/ concede that I'd also like to play in Liberty City. Especially with the improved controls of V over IV's. I'm just telling you, as a guy who's worked in game development for 25 years, why it's not going to happen while they're still making money on GTA Online.

Holy fuck.

GTAIV with IV more (euphoria) and V mode with V like controls would be GODLIKE

[chronovore]

The point is, the monetization model is different. GTA V Online makes giant screaming wodges of cash for Rockstar, while GTA IV's online modes have no additional monetization. Putting out something equivalent that makes them no money and requires work to do so seems like a non-starter.

I /will/ concede that I'd also like to play in Liberty City. Especially with the improved controls of V over IV's. I'm just telling you, as a guy who's worked in game development for 25 years, why it's not going to happen while they're still making money on GTA Online.

Holy fuck.

GTAIV with IV more (euphoria) and V mode with V like controls would be GODLIKE

Honestly, just give me a radial menu for the weapon selection instead of D pad left/right, and we’re off to a good start.