Model 3 review after 200KM

[Cerveza mas fina]

This car rocks. Like really a nex gen car.

+Looks great
+Drives great
+Leaves more expensice ICE cars behind
+Good range
+Fast charging
+Can tow and have roofbox

-Supports Elon Musk
-Tesla drivers greet each other lol cringe we aren't bikers or truckers people
-Spending 50k on a car, not even a cup of coffee at the Tesla shop

[VomKriege]

Heard it handles well in space.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Heard it handles well in space.

Think thats a model S

[bork]

-Spending 50k on a car, not even a cup of coffee at the Tesla shop

50k on a Model 3??

[naff]

lol, they're something like 120k to buy imported here

you could get a brand new polo for 22k

[bork]

[naff]

i got a 2007 golf in great condition with only 80k kilometres on the clock for $2700 last month 

sure it uses gas, but factor in the life cycle analysis incl: how little of the grid is renewable and the amount of emissions used to make all the batteries in that electric heap, it takes a long time for an electric car to offset emissions to the point it all seems pointless outside of being a lifestyle flex

[Bebpo]

Yeah, I like my Model 3. It's a really good car. Handles great, really fast, really comfortable, not having to get gas is nice. If it wasn't for covid I'd be getting a lot of use out of it and taking it on road trips. I got it at the end of Feb and I think I'm just hitting 1k mileage because of lockdown.

-Spending 50k on a car, not even a cup of coffee at the Tesla shop

50k on a Model 3??

Uhh, pretty sure it's more than that if you want the long-range higher performance one. I don't remember exactly how much I spent but it was either 60k or 70k after all the little charges. And this is without the auto-driving $7k add-on which I didn't purchase.

*edit* just checked and was 60k

[bork]

Yeah, I like my Model 3. It's a really good car. Handles great, really fast, really comfortable, not having to get gas is nice. If it wasn't for covid I'd be getting a lot of use out of it and taking it on road trips. I got it at the end of Feb and I think I'm just hitting 1k mileage because of lockdown.

-Spending 50k on a car, not even a cup of coffee at the Tesla shop

50k on a Model 3??

Uhh, pretty sure it's more than that if you want the long-range higher performance one. I don't remember exactly how much I spent but it was either 60k or 70k after all the little charges. And this is without the auto-driving $7k add-on which I didn't purchase.

*edit* just checked and was 60k

What?  WHAT? 

How does it end up being that much?  Standard range is $34k.  Long range is $42k- all that extra "perfomance" crap and auto-drive being nearly $20k is ridiculous.  For 60k, you might as well have purchased a Model X or something, no?

[Bebpo]

It's bs accounting. Model 3 isn't a 34k car. It's not an affordable car for everyone despite how they try to market it like that.

It's a luxury sedan comparable to BMW and stuff in the 50k range. Performance is pretty similar or better.

Model X is probably more like 90k after real numbers.

[Bebpo]

Just looked it up. Long Range is model 3 is $47k, paint is $2k for color, nice interior is $1k, so that's $50k. I add sports tires so maybe that was another $1k, the rest is delivery fees, tax, license fees, etc... almost $10k in hidden fees.

Fyi the numbers they quote for the public include est cost savings of not buying gas for 6-10 years. So they charge you $47k for long range and say it costs $40k because you'll save $7k in gas over the years. It's bs numbers.

[naff]

almost $10k in hidden fees.

 

[bork]

It's bs accounting. Model 3 isn't a 34k car. It's not an affordable car for everyone despite how they try to market it like that.

It's a luxury sedan comparable to BMW and stuff in the 50k range. Performance is pretty similar or better.

Model X is probably more like 90k after real numbers.

What do you mean? 

https://www.motor1.com/features/313677/how-much-is-a-tesla/

Model 3 (Standard Range Plus) is $37,990 if you don't get all the other crap with it.  You added a bunch of extras on that you didn't have to buy.

I see that Tesla announced a $24,000 vehicle recently.  That's much better, but still not buying an EV until charging stations are everywhere (including where I live!) and charge times are much faster.

[Bebpo]

Yeah if you get white exterior standard range standard interior it's 38k + license, delivery, tax, etc... so probably $45k or so for the absolute cheapest option.

Long range is pretty nice upgrade, was worth the money to me. 4.4 sec 0-60 was the same as the BMW 240i I was looking at.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Bork you know Im in the EU right?

So all prices are inc. VAT and 10% import duty.

I paid 59K USD for the SR+ with tow hitch.

41K usd base price  +1k for tow hitch +10% import duty +25% vat = 57.25k USD

[Cerveza mas fina]

It's bs accounting. Model 3 isn't a 34k car. It's not an affordable car for everyone despite how they try to market it like that.

It's a luxury sedan comparable to BMW and stuff in the 50k range. Performance is pretty similar or better.

Model X is probably more like 90k after real numbers.

What do you mean? 

https://www.motor1.com/features/313677/how-much-is-a-tesla/

Model 3 (Standard Range Plus) is $37,990 if you don't get all the other crap with it.  You added a bunch of extras on that you didn't have to buy.

I see that Tesla announced a $24,000 vehicle recently.  That's much better, but still not buying an EV until charging stations are everywhere (including where I live!) and charge times are much faster.

Faster charging times is not going to happen really unless there is a major breakthrough.

 Even with solid state batteries on the "horizon" (5/10 years? Lol) they will probably have the same issue that they aren't meant to be supercharged at 150/300kw every time.Companies are already offering options to slow charging (for Porsche I think) to preserve batteries.

Charging at home will be an overnight afair (4/11kw) and charging on the go seems to have hit a sweet spot of 50kw/100kw with cost in mind.

Thinking you are going to top up in 5 min is gasoline thinking

[Cerveza mas fina]

i got a 2007 golf in great condition with only 80k kilometres on the clock for $2700 last month 

sure it uses gas, but factor in the life cycle analysis incl: how little of the grid is renewable and the amount of emissions used to make all the batteries in that electric heap, it takes a long time for an electric car to offset emissions to the point it all seems pointless outside of being a lifestyle flex

Sure that is one way of looking at it except 50% of electricity in Denmark is from wind. Also I get my electricity from a 100% windmill guaranteed provider, which fuels more expansion of windmill parks.

The lifetime emmision story is doesn't really hold up if you are looking at the big picture. Thats just something people tell others I think to feel better and justify their purchase. Esp if they say buying an EV is a lifestyle flex.

Your car is closer to the scrap heat then not and it will need replacing anyway, so you might as well replace it with something that will propel change instead of keep putting in money in the oil industry pocket and preserving the status quo.

Nothing wrong with buying second hand and Im not saying you should rush out to buy a tesla, but please dont come with lifetime emmision fairy tales an ev user lifestyle flex

[BisMarckie]

Preachy vegans are better than preachy EV owners

[Cerveza mas fina]

I wasn't preachy until naff called evs a lifestyle flex 

I do hope you will not come back with a certain not peer reviewed, discredited, german, oil industry funded, cherry picked study Bismarckie.

[Cerveza mas fina]

lol, they're something like 120k to buy imported here

you could get a brand new polo for 22k

Where do live btw thats a crazy price for the model 3!

Here the cheapest Model 3 is 57k and the cheapest Polo 26k.

[Transhuman]

Me eating alfalfa sprouts and vegetable soup instead of a greasy delicious beef & cheese burger topped with bacon is all just a part of my lifestyle flex

[naff]

it's clear that, cradle to the grave, ev's are more efficient. like getting ~80 mpg in areas where they're sold a lot and despite higher emissions on creation (iirc around 40% more) you will offset that. even better in your tiny little wealthy corner of the world where wind power is feasible. are BEV's or HFCV's etc ever going to be practical enough for mass adoption in a way that matters though? i hope so, but imo the change we need will only come through sweeping govt mandates and heavily subsidised shifts to a new tech not free markets pandering to tiny fractions of the worlds most wealthy. hence; seems like a lifestyle flex to me at the moment, but yeah, you can definitely argue you're driving innovation.

[naff]

also, i live in nz.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Naff I agree we will need more then just the 5%/10% wealthy enough to buy into it now, but it feels like you are bitter and deny this does any difference.

Without "early" adopters there would be no evs now.

What many studies also fail to take into account btw is that an ev can easily have double the lifetime of a ice car. Most studies are based on some low arbitrary lifetime mileage figure based on ICE cars.

And on the lifestyle flex thing: I think that if one can afford the less harmfull option one should go for it. So in this case we are changing our hybrid for a bigger car to fit the family and we can afford an EV so we should do it. We always prioritize the green options if we can over other luxuries. So our daugthers have second hand clothes and lots of second hand toys. We are not huge consumers. Were eating organic, no one can see that, hardly a "flex" just a bigger expense. I dont mow my lawn to help bees and birds. Not a flex either I think.

Just a bit lame to see things as "flexes" cause its the opposite mentality of what Im going for.

Do I think the car is fucking cool? Yeah. But if there was a cheaper better option that was less cool Id buy that.

[Transhuman]

also, i live in nz.

I live right next to where Andre Reynaud works

[naff]

5 - 10% would be a huge shift. even if you're only looking at % of new cars sold (most people don't buy new) it's sub 2%

also, i live in nz.

I live right next to where Andre Reynaud works

lol, i didn't even know who this dude was.

[Cerveza mas fina]

In august 20% of all cars sold in Denmark were EVs or Plugin hybrids.

 I checked and in NZ its only 2.7%. Just seems you guys are way behind for whatever reason (money isn't it Im guessing).

(Btw norway was at 70% in august... )

These numbers are reflected among many western countries in the last few months (European plugin/ev share hit 11% in august!). The shift is happening now.

This is huge, all these cars also means that in a few years there will be more second hand options for everyone.

http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/?m=1

[Cerveza mas fina]

Why do you think NZ is so far behind?

Gdp wise you guys are the same as France, but france has 10.5% plugin share while you are at 2.7%.

Is it cultural or some other factors?

[naff]

we are around the global average of 2.5% or whatever. the price is just absurd here and people are fairly wary of conspicuous consumption. even organics here is mostly considered a farce (too expensive for the layman, conspicuous consumption for the upper middle). 

[naff]

the price aspect is probably driven by our dollar being weak against the usd and shipping ev's to the ass hole of the world is pretty tough i guess

[Cerveza mas fina]

Around the global average but way behind similar income countries. So not good at all. NZ is up there with the most wealthy countries in the world and should do better imho.

Are EVs that much more expensive in NZ then in the EU or you guys just way less  environmentally concious then Europeans? From your posts it does seem that way. (Like how Europeans are less concious of racial issues then Americans)

[Cerveza mas fina]

the price aspect is probably driven by our dollar being weak against the usd and shipping ev's to the ass hole of the world is pretty tough i guess

That could be it but aren't ICE also shipped in or are they built in NZ?

[naff]

imo, buying cheap, local and seasonal is the only way. couldn't give less of a shite about organic. for example; went to our local organics store once and they had imported organic leeks out of season for $16 a kilo.

maybe we're less environmentally conscious, but we still have lower emissions per capita than norway and not much more than denmark.

[naff]

gdp is an incredibly flawed metric too. we don't have the wealth of nations like france, norway, denmark etc.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Co2 per capita danmark: 6
Nz: 7.3
Norway: 8.3

Also conveniantly ignoring that the average temperature in DK is 7.5 celcius, 4.3 in Norway and a staggering 10-16 in New Zealand..

so congrats on being worse then Denmark in a better climate? And just edging out on Norway while not having to heat homes to actually live

Weird flex mate

[naff]

i think it's a complex issue you can't boil down to "lol, you guys don't buy electric cars so you must not care about the environment  "

everyone normal wants to offset environmental harm. personally, i think one of the biggest moves westerners could make is living in higher density housing and being more conscious of just not using cars and living a little simpler. we love driving in nz despite really high gas prices, and there are a lot of dicks here. apparently we are among the wealthiest nations in the world now because of our property prices heh, yet barely anyone i know (including myself) owns a house, or considers it feasible. disparity between average income and house prices is the highest it's ever been, there's no rent control, homelessness has been booming etc etc. there are a plethora of issues that are hidden by the pretty numbers of the economic bubble.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yes definitely, less driving, better housing and higher density living are important, as is less consumption in general.

But please stop calling things like organic food or evs a lifestyle flex. (And I dont want to get into is organic food the best solution as imho it isnt, id be in favour of organic gmo food though but thats taboo in europe)

[bork]

It's bs accounting. Model 3 isn't a 34k car. It's not an affordable car for everyone despite how they try to market it like that.

It's a luxury sedan comparable to BMW and stuff in the 50k range. Performance is pretty similar or better.

Model X is probably more like 90k after real numbers.

What do you mean? 

https://www.motor1.com/features/313677/how-much-is-a-tesla/

Model 3 (Standard Range Plus) is $37,990 if you don't get all the other crap with it.  You added a bunch of extras on that you didn't have to buy.

I see that Tesla announced a $24,000 vehicle recently.  That's much better, but still not buying an EV until charging stations are everywhere (including where I live!) and charge times are much faster.

Faster charging times is not going to happen really unless there is a major breakthrough.

 Even with solid state batteries on the "horizon" (5/10 years? Lol) they will probably have the same issue that they aren't meant to be supercharged at 150/300kw every time.Companies are already offering options to slow charging (for Porsche I think) to preserve batteries.

Charging at home will be an overnight afair (4/11kw) and charging on the go seems to have hit a sweet spot of 50kw/100kw with cost in mind.

Thinking you are going to top up in 5 min is gasoline thinking

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/charge-a-car-battery-in-5-minutes-thats-the-plan/amp

Earlier this year, the company’s researchers announced that their latest generation of batteries could be charged to 75 percent in just five minutes—without sacrificing energy density. “We can have a fast charge without losing out on energy density because we’re using an inexpensive, pure-silicon approach,” says Ben Park, Enevate’s founder and chief technology officer.

[Cerveza mas fina]

You are linking things I already read a long time ago Bork, did a lot of nerdy research before buying and ev now.

This isn't tech you will see in the next 10 years in production cars, if ever, and dev not if you are looking at a 25k car like you say.

Just research vaporware.

Best thing in next 5-10 years will be more density and maybe solid state in high end cars. Maaaaaaaaaybe.

Fossil fuel cars will be banned here before this is a thing, if ever.

I mean id love to see it, but its just not happening realistically.

[bork]

You are linking things I already read a long time ago Bork, did a lot of nerdy research before buying and ev now.

This isn't tech you will see in the next 10 years in production cars, if ever, and dev not if you are looking at a 25k car like you say.

Just research vaporware.

Best thing in next 5-10 years will be more density and maybe solid state in high end cars. Maaaaaaaaaybe.

Fossil fuel cars will be banned here before this is a thing, if ever.

I mean id love to see it, but its just not happening realistically.

The first applications for the fast-charge batteries will be for power tools, but that Enevate is working with car manufacturers to include it in EVs as early as 2024.

 

On the real, I'm interested in EVs but will not purchase one until there are more charging stations out there and more of a push in this country towards them.  It's a very slow change in 'Murica.  And then there's my current living situation- am in a condo built in 1985.  They don't have the means to put in charging stations in the garage and I'm not about to go leave a car in the park to charge up every night.  If the next home we buy is a house and I can have a charging station put in, I might consider it.

Dunno about Tesla though.  If nothing else, I just find their car designs to be so sterile and boring.  The Cybertruck is at least something different, even if it is ugly.  Am hoping that their $24k car is going to be a hatchback.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yeah apartment is not ideal for an ev

Hope things will improve soon on this front

[T-Short]

it's clear that, cradle to the grave, ev's are more efficient. like getting ~80 mpg in areas where they're sold a lot and despite higher emissions on creation (iirc around 40% more) you will offset that. even better in your tiny little wealthy corner of the world where wind power is feasible. are BEV's or HFCV's etc ever going to be practical enough for mass adoption in a way that matters though? i hope so, but imo the change we need will only come through sweeping govt mandates and heavily subsidised shifts to a new tech not free markets pandering to tiny fractions of the worlds most wealthy. hence; seems like a lifestyle flex to me at the moment, but yeah, you can definitely argue you're driving innovation.

Nice LCA point earlier. At the risk of sounding like a corporate spokesperson, I do like that my employer chose to make all the numbers public (I found the break-even point especially interesting): https://www.polestar.com/uk/electric-sustainability/transparency/

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yeah I read that earlier today

EV smokes an ICE car even if this report is based on a very cautious 200k km lifecycle, EV can do a lot more, but an ICE will struggle in many cases.

That said both the Polestar and the XC40 are very inefficient cars all in all 

[naff]

Yeah apartment is not ideal for an ev

Hope things will improve soon on this front

car shares.

once my gf gets her license i'm selling the car, getting rid of the garage im renting and going back to only using the car share. yeah, they're phev's, but the more important point is they get people to stop buying cars.

[naff]

i realise that's not really an option for families outside the city that need to commute, but for us apartment dwelling city slickers that otherwise walk/bike everywhere the car share is pretty ideal (outside the logistical issue of learning to drive)

[headwalk]

sorry mate, wouldn't be caught driving an automatic over this side of the pond. they're exclusively the domain of coffin dodgers and spackers.

[naff]

when i was in aussie last i rented a manual ford falcon sr6 that ran on lpg from "car next door". felt like such a bogan, it was mean.

[Cerveza mas fina]

sorry mate, wouldn't be caught driving an automatic over this side of the pond. they're exclusively the domain of coffin dodgers and spackers.

Oof you are in for s hard time in the future