Author Topic: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda  (Read 4248 times)

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Nintex

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2021, 06:23:22 AM »
BOTW had a number of dungeon like areas, like the mazes and the ancient temple. Plus without the climbing mechanic (which was added pretty late to the game) you would've had to run through gauntlets of enemies to go to shrines and such.
I think that they realized early in development that to make a dungeon they would have to make it really big to work in a game of this scale or turn Hyrule Castle into a dungeon that slowly opens up like they did with Phantom Hourglass.

Looking at the map and the world it is obvious that the game had some places that served as 'classic' dungeons at some point.
In pretty much every province there is a big structure, fortress or tower that could've obviously been its dungeon where you had to collect an item or power.

In one of the interviews they  said that they planned to not give Link all his powers at the start.
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Himu

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2021, 10:53:49 AM »
I find old zelda puzzles too rigid. Yes, you used to get stuck in a great temple. But who has been stuck in a zelda dungeon since maybe MM, or maybe TP with the iceblock puzzle? We got stuck when 3d zelda was new.
I got stuck in the pirate ship in skyward sword. and in the lava dungeon, two places I remember despite not having played the game since it released. I'm stuck right now in my playthrough of oracle of ages! Just because Zelda was easy doesn't mean that there was no place for getting stuck in the design of it, really it's the least formulaic parts that are easiest to get stuck on.

 
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Once you familiarize yourself with the formula it's just that - a formula. Hookshot on grass, hookshot on walls, bomb this wall, fire this arrow. Zzz basic zelda shit. Having puzzles with open ended solutions is actually refreshing and this ties into the "classic Zelda is flabby as fuck" argument.


I'm now like 40 hours into BOTW and I solve every puzzle with magnesis, stasis, arrows, and bombs. I solve them in the exact same ways because they all boil down to move metal block or burn these crates. How exactly is that different than old Zelda? Instead of checking a room for hookshot points I'm just flipping through my magic to see if anything glows or is magnetic, totally braindead. If there's wood you burn it. If you need to power a switch you just pull some lightning out of your bag of holding/ass and bypass the puzzle mechanism (Nothing more exciting than skipping content as a reward for mindless hoarding). Except, oh wait, old Zelda had fun items like Hookshots and Cane of Bryna and Hammers and Whips and Lenses of Truth. Stasis and Magnesis are limp shit and they're fucking everywhere.

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You wanna get stuck in Zelda puzzles? Play Master Quest. Stuck? In a modern Zelda game? What modern Zelda's have you been playing? When was the last time you got stuck in a Zelda game?

This made events like Eventide all the more refreshing.

Classic Zelda? Who the fuck wants it anymore? I sure don't. It's something I've mastered. How many bombs can I bomb and fire arrows can I fire till I get bored?

Classic Zelda is something I've mastered too - but at least it's something that can be mastered. I haven't even been given the fucking the opportunity in BOTW! It seems like I accidentally mastered everything I could as soon as I figured out what the powers did (immediately) and after I see that everything revolves around temperature/fire/ice/electricity/physics (a few hours). Since then it's just been applying those same few lessons to move balls in holes. I get that there's opportunity to come up with a wacky and crazy solution to these puzzles myself but like...that isn't my job? It's certainly not why I'm playing a game with predesigned challenges and not just some theoretical Zelda Maker or whatever. Make the fucking puzzles fun and I won't feel the need to bypass them like apparently all the other players do. That's what I pay Nintendo money for. If I wanted to be creative myself I'd learn to paint, or just go play minecraft, and I sure as shit wouldn't call the end result a puzzle.

IDK. Obviously I'm in the superminority both commerically and critically but 3D Zelda took many years to grow stale for me and feel like I'm just going through the motions, but I hit that point pretty early on in BOTW and there's quite a bit of game left to go.

have you done eventide or thunder plateau?
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mormapope

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2021, 11:06:41 AM »
A highlight of Eventide for me was getting one of the puzzle balls stuck in the mud pit, and putting an hour of time trying to scoop it out with other physical objects or sinking bombs to the bottom to blow it out.

I was unsuccessful  :doge, but I learned a very useful tip. Equipping the stasis ability will highlight the majority of objects and items you can pick up in the environment.

That's a tip I'd use for the rest of the game.

 :lawd
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Tasty

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2021, 12:32:08 PM »


I forgot Skyward Sword made you use motion controls for flying and swimming. :dead

Blasting through that shit on a Switch Pro Controller and giving the middle finger to the original gameplay designers :miyamoto

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2021, 12:34:00 PM »
 ::)
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Tasty

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2021, 01:05:38 PM »
::)

Gonna be flippin' and tiddlin' that right stick like you on some clitty. :win

naff

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2021, 04:44:29 PM »
skyward sword gets a lot of shit for it's structure but the core game was really great and it looked fantastic, the back half of the game just got really stale. people overstate how bad waggle was imo. i quite enjoy dat shit. tired af of standard analog controllers
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naff

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2021, 04:51:08 PM »
have you done eventide or thunder plateau?

i mean, he's not wrong about the majority of shrine puzzles in botw. they got stale p fast. i love the game but i would just leave shrines when i entered after a while if they were a standard puzzle because they were so boring a oft tedious. i kinda came around to finding them relaxing/fun to grind out once id finished other content but they def brandead af. the shrine quests can be really great though. also, the couple shrines that have the tilt the switch to move ball through hole puzzles are the worst puzzles in any zelda ive played

eventide and thunder plateau are totally rad. there are so many great things in botw, but i can also see a lot of room for improvement in botw2. the master quest dungeon crawl is really great too. botw has a solid post game
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Human Snorenado

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2021, 05:14:29 PM »
skyward sword gets a lot of shit for it's structure but the core game was really great and it looked fantastic, the back half of the game just got really stale. people overstate how bad waggle was imo. i quite enjoy dat shit. tired af of standard analog controllers

yar

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2021, 06:28:13 PM »
dual analog is absolute garbage and always has been. I've never been a pc gaymer, but I always agreed that keyboard n mouse is superior. pointer and motion controls got us closer to that.
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Pissy F Benny

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2021, 06:31:09 PM »
I use a mouse and keyboard as a wagie, I don't wanna deal with that trauma in my vidya too :trumps
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Tasty

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2021, 06:31:10 PM »
I remember I hated and avoided dual analogs my entire life and sticking to Nintendo made that pretty easy... until I wanted to git gud at Monster Hunter (before they added lock-on.)

Long story short, I got gud. :win

naff

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2021, 09:25:54 PM »
i mean, i am good with a regular controller too. i am ok with the old dual analog, but think split controllers that can augment movement in games with natural arm/hand movement on top of dual analog (see nearly all vr controllers) is a positive move forward to something more natural. i also hate that companies are dropping the ball on classic inputs like dpad (ps5 dpad is absolute asscrack, one of the worst ive used since trying to use shitty 3rd party madcatz controllers on psx)
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Human Snorenado

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2021, 09:39:35 PM »
Every control scheme has its drawbacks but to sit here and say you ACTUALLY ENJOY waggle proves that you were thrown onto the ground head first as a toddler as opposed to just innocently dropped
yar

naff

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #74 on: February 28, 2021, 10:22:26 PM »
i think spinning mario in galaxy or the sword motions to fight in ss were inoffensive through enjoyable and you're a drama queen to bitch about it like luigi cucked you. i liked skyward swords use of motion, pointer controls are the best way to play the metroid prime trilogy and RE4, warioware smooth moves is still hilarious shit, the sports games are still very good.
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naff

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2021, 10:28:47 PM »
a place i really hated waggle was dkc returns. holding the pad with both hands and shaking to roll was dumb af. im sure there are other scenarios i hated it in and im just forgetting. i forgot how much that specific game pissed me off you couldn't turn it off either.
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paprikastaude

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2021, 10:49:45 PM »

HardcoreRetro

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #77 on: March 01, 2021, 05:27:39 AM »
The biggest problem I had with the wiimote weren't the motion controls itself. It's more that there's huge margins of error and sometimes the characters would do stuff I didn't want them to do. If it worked correctly 100% of the time, i'd prefer it over the old methods.

This carries over into the gyroscope aim in games like Splatoon as well. Constantly having to press R to recenter the controlls isn't my idea of fun.

Svejk

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #78 on: March 01, 2021, 08:50:27 AM »

I stopped watching after he said "Majora's Mask is the best game ever made and has Tingle in it."
 :nope

thetylerrob

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Re: A huge reason why Breath of the Wild is a GOAT and the best Zelda
« Reply #79 on: March 01, 2021, 02:45:01 PM »
I started replaying this on Cemu, might wait to play the sequel on an emulator because this shit is incredible in 4k 60fps.  :drool