On another forum I was talking about Kubrick movies. Following debate happened:
Person1: Kubrick is a fucking hack.
Me: Maybe you're too dense to get his movies?
Person1: Maybe you're too dumb to know a good movie from a bad one. That's more likely, I'd think.
I posted my Clockwork impressions. Now remember, this person's favorite movie is Star Wars.
Person1: I reiterate that Kubrick is a fucking hack, and Clockwork Orange is retardly overrated.
Me: Even if Kubrick is a supposed hack, his movies are better than Star Wars, which have themes, script, and plot as corny as a little kid's programming show.
I am still questioning how anyone who likes film can even say Kubrick is a hack. I can understand them not particularly enjoying his films, because they definitely demand something the user. With 2001 you must have the up most amount of patience, and become immersed with the film to enjoy it, for example. One thing I've noticed from his movie making is that many things are subtle and vague to a tee, and for fans of by the numbers "I need everything explained to me without real thought" type of audiences, I can definitely see that as a problem.
Still, his camera work and scripts are like, wow. So I don't get that hate at all.
Person1: "they definitely demand something the user." No they don't; that's just the thing. They try too hard to be 'intelligent' and come off as :rolleyes . But if you'd like to tell yourself otherwise, be my guest.
And as far as Star Wars goes, it is written to be what it is. It doesn't take itself too seriously or try to be more than it is. It's a fairy tale set in space.
Me: And what are these movies that try to be intelligent. They don't really have to try. The symbolism does it for them.
Person1: No, it's like that guy in high school who thinks he is a lot cooler and smarter than he really is. You can tell he thinks he's hot shit, but you're not really impressed and want to jsut kick him down a stairs.
His movies are like that for me.
Person 2: I'll take that one further, actually, and blame the fans more than Kubrick himself. The fans are often the ones who go on and on about how genius he was, and how people who don't like his movies just don't understand/appreciate/get his movies in the right way or whatever. It's pretentious and obnoxious.
I won't fault Kubrick for making the kind of movies he wanted to make, but I will fault those people who go on and on about how great he was, even when it's obvious that no one they are talking to cares.
The Shining was the only one of his films that I even kind of liked, but it also bugged me because it had very little to do with the book it was based on. 2001 is too damn long, and A Clockwork Orange is too full of itself. I haven't seen Dr. Strangelove yet.
Person3: I'm not a big fan of 2001, but I really love A Clockwork Orange and Dr. Strangelove.
Person1: ^ In other words, "I too am easily impressed!"
Person 2: I remember going to see Eyes Wide Shut in the theatre, and having to pull over on the way home because my friend was making me laugh so hard going on about how terrible it was.
Because it was terrible.
Me: I don't see how Clockwork is too full of itself. It's just fun.
Person1: (referencing person2 and Eyes Wide Shut) Yeah, that movie was really the killing blow for me. I'll hate Kubrick til the day I die now.
The awfulness is on par with Escape from LA. And that's pretty sporking awful.
Person2: If it's "just fun" then you really don't understand it Himuro.
Me: No, I understand it, but it's entertaining enough to get over it's message. Seeing Alex wave a giant cock model was awesome. The rich dialogue keeps the movie from being stale, and it's entertaining all throughout. It's anti-government stance on experiments on patients and reconditioning could have been pulled off better, but in the end, they're a small problem to a very enjoyable picture.
Viddy well, o brother. Viddy well.
Person2: Yeah, that was so awesome. SO AWESOME.
Or you know, so trite.
Me: I'm so sorry you can't just sit and enjoy a movie without being overly critical.
Person2: Haha.
Himuro, I have seen hundreds, if not thousands of films in my lifetime. I can appreciate plenty. I just happen to disagree with you as to the importance of Kubrick's films. If you want to get butthurt over that, you're free to do so, but that doesn't mean that I am unable to appreciate cinema.
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Now, person 2 is someone who has a lot of film experience and goes to the movies just about weekly, and looking around a lot of the film people I know after trying to discuss Kubrick films with them, they give similar responses. So I'm wondering if Kubrick films are looked down upon as people who just blindly love someone's movie to look cool.
