Author Topic: redWOOD: I need PvP Mage advice! (Read 3264 times)

Van Cruncheon · « **on:** February 19, 2007, 01:21:09 PM »

okay, I am sucking in 20-29 WSG. I run the flag a lot and score that way, but I don't do jack for kills (0-4 on average) or damage (usually around 7K). I'm a Frost spec which means I root and sheep a shitload, and I drop blizzard/CoC to slow everyone down, but everyone acts like I should be pumping out 3x that level of damage at level 29. WTF am I missing (besides cool young dude enchants because I have a life and guilds are for fegs)? Fire spec is worthless because of the charge times; I'll get chewed up by a rogue before I ever get that high crit FB off. I have some good arcane dam boost EQ and my Arcane Missle hits for 72 damage x 5 against another non-cool young dude 29. Am I *supposed* to be a flag runner and/or support class? I thought mages were human nukes -- or is that in higher level brackets?

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:30:43 PM »

Oh, my EQ is half blues and comparable greens, all Lvl 27-29.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:40:26 PM »

God my thread in the WoW forum is just all kinds of WTF.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=77810660&sid=1

You'd think their recollections of how WSG is played were based entirely on theory.

whiteACID · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:41:12 PM »

Frost spec is usually for leveling up, it’s mostly a defensive spec. For example Megafoo plays a frost spec mage and I play a fire spec, at 49 my firebolts hit for around 700 and crit for around 1k, while his frostbolts hit for around 400 and crit around 700. If you really want to be top of the charts the best way to go is fire spec, although it’s very hard to run the flag this way without ice shield and the lower cooldown on frost nova.

Honestly I don’t even use arcane in battleground except to sheep, which I do quite often. It’s a win-lose situation, if you want to be at top of the charts you use fire, if you want to be good defensive and a great flag runner you’ll be frost.

Mage’s seem to do better in the 30-39 bracket because rogues are overpowered to them in the 20-29 bracket. When I get hit by a rogue I simply blink ASAP, and then sheep them, bandage if I have to and then blast them down. Always have your mana agates and shields up.

You can’t be a great flag runner and have good survivability and be able to nuke people down, on the other hand you can’t be expect to nuke people down and have high survability.

What race are you, may I ask?

I’ll give you some good specs in the 29 bracket for fire and ice
Fire spec: Burning soul is good again melee classes, cause you not to have interruption while casting
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000050520200220200000000000000000000000000000000

Ice spec: This is what Megafoo used at that level, and he’s pretty damn good
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000505320000005000000000

Also, I don’t know what your profession is but Alchemy is a godsend in pvp, I couldn’t tell you how many times pots have saved my life

whiteACID · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:43:44 PM »

Mages are the masters of manipulation, they are tricky. The best mages are ones that blink and move around A LOT, you have to dance with your opponents, you can't fight toe to toe with them.

If you have someone down to low health don't bother casting something at them Arcane Explosion them to death.

whiteACID · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:45:04 PM »

Also watch videos, learn from other players that have mastered the class and adopt their style, you will eventually end up having your own style that works for you. I was good and then I watched some mage videos, I mimicked their style and noticed a considerable improvement in my gameplay.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:48:38 PM »

herbal/alchemy are my talents, and I have loads of mana pots. I generally send the healing pots I make to MAF because he's our midfield guy.

I blink like fuck, ask MAF -- I pop around the field a lot dropping frost novas and sheeping hunters/pets, and you seriously can't run a flag without it. I'll try spamming more arcane explosion, although I prefer spamming CoC since it does better damage and it slows/freezes folks. I have mana shield up during flag runs, and I have a repop macro for frost armor/arcane int/mana agate + use mana pot.

Guess I'll stick to flag running, but I get tired of the LOL UR A MAGE WHY YOU NOT DO DAMAGE comments.

whiteACID · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:51:13 PM »

If you want to do damage, then try out the fire spec. If you are doing really good flag running and winning games that way then stay that, in the end winning the game is what matters and not how much damage or HK's you got.

Lvl 20-29 bracket is useless right now, you're playing to many twinks. Level to 70 and then play hardcore pvp. In the Arena battlegrounds Frost with Water Elemental is really the only way to go.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:52:32 PM »

I'm kinda surprised by the idea that frost spec is considered a level up spec, since it seems more versatile in PvP (plus way more obnoxious). If I wanted to level up quick, I'd go for some fire/arcane hybrid, I'd think -- frost has shit DPS which makes for sloooow grind.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:53:25 PM »

aight, I think I'll wait for a higher bracket. The twinks are obnoxious, but I didn't wanna whine about something out of my control.

whiteACID · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:53:51 PM »

Well the idea in pvp is that you want to do burst damage and fast, you don't want to sit around on defense mode where it takes longer to kills someone and where they can possibly have reinforcements. For 1v1 duels frost is the best, but in a battleground setting you want to do the most damage you possibly can as quick as possible.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:54:08 PM »

WhiteAcid: Word has it the new TBC chants have made 30-39 twinkland too. I hope 40-49 is still safe, that was always my favorite bracket.

whiteACID · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:55:03 PM »

I thought they put a level cap on enchantments recently?

I've been playing the 40-49 bracket and haven't seen that many twinks.

Megafoo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:55:42 PM »

Try slapping a shit load of +spell damage greens on your toon (belts, bracers). level 20-29 sucks because you won't be finding any +spell damage staves, only a few off hands which sucks because there are hardly any daggers or swords that i can think of until the hypnotic blade that are worth using. Pump your spell damage as much as possible and intel. forget about stamina. keep that mana shield up soldier.

whiteACID · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:01:06 PM »

I'm working on getting fraps so I can record some of my pvp. I'll post a video or something here when I make one.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:01:10 PM »

noooooooooope. There some +300 hp leg chant out there, its ridiculous.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:03:02 PM »

I have a +20 damage Arcane staff (lvl 29) because I put 5 points into the uninterruptable arcane missle skill (my only arcane spec). It does 72x5 across 8 seconds, which isn't great -- and yer GF is right, *that* was probably *was* a PvE decision.

I have a lot of stamina EQ -- I have 1090 HP at level 29. I might rebuy for int, then, 'cuz I really NEED the pots to supplement my 2400 mana.

my crit chance is 5.88 -- it's ass. Hm.

Oh, my race is Draenei. Their racials suck. 10 shadow resist is cute, but worthless against PvP locks. Gift of the Naaru + Amp Magic lets me heal up -- WHEN I get a breather, 'cuz it has 3 sec charge time and a 5 min cooldown AND I can't cast it while running.

whiteACID · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:05:16 PM »

Honestly, I think you'll have a lot more fun in the higher brackets with your mage.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:07:44 PM »

man, drainy chars might be competitive if GotN was insta-cast. It'd turn us into tiny little pallies!

whiteACID · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:09:18 PM »

The horde always have better pvp racials and alliance have better pve racials. The blizzard guys love the horde.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:11:15 PM »

yeah, that's what MAF said. GotN is a good PvE racial, no doubt, just 'cuz it reduces grind deltas, but it's so fucking useless in PvP. In fact, on the rare occasion I do use it, it PISSES ME OFF because it reminds me that ONCE AGAIN I AM IN A PVP GAME WITHOUT ANY REAL HEALING SUPPORT FROM FUCKING ALLIANCE PLAYERS and I am reduced to a SHITTY RACIAL to get healing.

How I miss Will of the Forsaken :'(

Megafoo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:11:57 PM »

the more intel you have the higher your crit will be and when you add shatter to your spec you will increase your crit chance 50% if your target is Frozen. Arcane damage is weak. Only use Arcane missles when you've totally pwned your target and he wants to run away. that's when you unleash missle fury. Love your frost nova, love your cold snap. Sheep ---> Fire Ball ---> Frost Nova --> First Blast ---> Cone of Cold ---> Blink out ---> KILL THEIR CHILDREN.

whiteACID · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:14:24 PM »

Megafoo is a better frost mage than I. I never really played around with the frost spec. That's why I summoned him to this thread.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:14:29 PM »

bububububububububu missle makes pve easier!

fuck, yer right, I'll respec when i dredge up some more gold and dump the talent points into frost crit. That plus regearing for int should help significantly

Megafoo · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:15:12 PM »

Don't waste your counterspell on something silly that your mana shield can absorb or your frost/fire ward will absorb. Wait for a heal. Also why 20-29 sucks is you don't have your cold snap/ice barrier/and the all mighty ice block. Adding those spells into your play style takes a lot of time to get the feel for. You are better off getting your arsenal and enjoy your pvp on the overworld ganking chumps with names like "Idontheal" "Ipwnnubs" "ihaveherpes."

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:16:39 PM »

Yeah I spose the best mages rarely get touched, but when I was an afflict lock I had a good bit into stam cause I rarely had imp out while hunting mages and well...chain fear never seemed as effective as it does now for some reason. I was pretty awesome with a lock, being a Warrior has brought new challenges.

I wish they would fix charge tho. Tired of lag making charge bug out. Ive lost so many flags cause I couldnt actually hit someone with charge. Id charge and then there's be this weird pause where I couldnt attack, then they'd keep running out of my reach.

whiteACID · « **Reply #26 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:20:31 PM »

Quote from: MrAngryFace on February 19, 2007, 02:16:39 PM

Yeah I spose the best mages rarely get touched, but when I was an afflict lock I had a good bit into stam cause I rarely had imp out while hunting mages and well...chain fear never seemed as effective as it does now for some reason. I was pretty awesome with a lock, being a Warrior has brought new challenges.

I remember them nerfing Warlocks fear a little while ago, I believe they increased the diminishing returns.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:21:38 PM »

Thats what everyone says but there's still a lot of complaining about chain fear on the forums. I think most people want the cooldown period made longer. Even a short duration fear after a long duration fear is pretty obnoxious.

Megafoo · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:21:46 PM »

it's because they resisted your stun from charge. Charge and slam your hamstring button to slow them down. Being a warrior you have a lot on your plate because all your different attacks require stance switches. Bind your stances to keys you can easily reach. If you use WSAD for movement, bind your stances to keys near those so you can do crazy shit like. CHARGE HAMSTRING > STANCE DANCE TO BERSERKER > Whirlwind > Back to Battle Hamstring Again > Pray for an overpower. Your job as a warrior is to keep the flag runner slowed down as much as possible until your reinforcements arrive. You HAVE to spec tactical mastery as soon as possible.

whiteACID · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:22:44 PM »

Quote from: MrAngryFace on February 19, 2007, 02:21:38 PM

Thats what everyone says but there's still a lot of complaining about chain fear on the forums. I think most people want the cooldown period made longer. Even a short duration fear after a long duration fear is pretty obnoxious.

It's just that the fear last so goddamn long, I'm running around for what? 30 seconds? While I get 3 dots on me and a shadowbolt that just eat at my health.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #30 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:25:48 PM »

Yeah, I mean I cant even charge half the time cause charge range is so crap while almost every World of Rangecraft class gets talents that boost the range of their attacks. So I fight a warlock and I get dotted before im in charge range and suddenly im in combat, so im running at him normal speed and right before I hit him, fear, then a bunch of dots, fear finally stops and I run back and boom fear again, then all his friends show up and im dead.

As for Warrior in WSG, I have the basics down. Im arms spec so spamstring IS my friend, but ive talked to other warriors and there IS a lag bug related to charge. I dont actually get a 'resist' feedback from these failed charges, they just dont actually work, its baffling.

I should be getting zerk stance soon tho so im excited about that much.

Megafoo · « **Reply #31 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:31:28 PM »

intercept will be nice. When i leveled my warrior i was fury before i realized i should use a two hander with sword spec and a Hand of justice. You will always have a hard time against mages and warlocks but if your Sword spec and HOJ procs at the same time expect expect to smile because you will see about 3000K+ in white damage with a incredible rage boost. They will fear you or sheep you if they don't die but then you pop out with an intercept. mortal strike ---> Execute ---> GG.

and it will proc A LOT

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #32 on:** February 19, 2007, 03:48:58 PM »

Cool cool, worth it to do some leveling up then.

Disposable White Guy · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:20:36 PM »

Quote from: whiteACID on February 19, 2007, 02:05:16 PM

Honestly, I think you'll have a lot more fun in the higher brackets with your mage.

Trues. cool young dude mages are cool and everything, but I've only ever seen them shine within groups at lower level brackets, very rarely do they do well solo (which I know defeats the point of BGs and all, I just like the solo stuff more these days). All of my cool young dude buddies transferred off the server a while ago, so I leveled my mage up to 57 and it's probably the most fun I've had in WoW since the first grind to 60. People who bitch about warlocks annihilating entire raid groups or rogue stunlocks or 8k pyroblast crits omgomg

haven't seen what frost/fire can do, I guess. Soooooo fuuuunnnnnnn

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:40:57 PM »

I dunno, there was this trio of twinked rogues in bg the other day that just annihilated me before I could even get anything off. Yet the WoW forums scream 'lrn2play' and im honestly baffled by this.

Disposable White Guy · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2007, 06:39:25 PM »

You are such a nubass. Geeze.

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #36 on:** February 20, 2007, 12:45:44 PM »

I played a frost mage in Battlegrounds back on Deathwing when I was hardcore catassing WoW. I also played escort heal bitch for a good friend of mine who was also a frost mage who liked to run the flag. Here's some pointers:

1) At level 29, you're not going to really have the luxury of mixing talents across trees if you want to do some damage as a frost mage in PvP. Frost PvP damage is completely crit dependent and largely based around the ice shards/frostbite/shatter mechanism. Players get rooted by either your frost nova or off a melee hit (frostbite procs on melee hits) , you can turn and then hit them with a frostbolt and a cone of cold before the root breaks, and both spells will have a very large crit rate and very high crit damage. From range, it's just about spamming frostbolt mostly-it's a better PvP spell than fireball with talents since it both snares and has a shorter casting time than fireball does.

2) Frost mages benefit greatly from +damage gear in terms of being able to go from simply harrassing players to mowing them down. Don't worry too much about having super killing power without it.

3) Cold Snap and improved frost nova are two of the better flag-running talents. Cold snap will allow you to get an extra frost nova off, and if a one-on-one fight is close it can also provide you with an extra cone of cold for another instant to finish a player off with.

4) Forget arcane explosion. It eats up mana like crazy and does very little damage. Only useful for finishing someone off when you are near a rejuv hut.

5) When flag running, watch for dispells against your ice armor. It's a pain to keep it up since it costs so much mana, but without it no healer is going to keep your butt alive if you get stunned by a rogue or what not.

6) When running the flag, always keep moving forward. Use blink to get separation in that battleground liberally, preferably right after rooting a few would-be chasers with a frost nova. Mana shield isn't a bad thing either, but note that the ice barrier you'll get later on in levels as a frost mage is 100x better.

That's my suggestions. Oh, and find yourself a healer type if you can, preferably a paladin for blessing of freedom to keep you snare free while running the flag.

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Author Topic: redWOOD: I need PvP Mage advice! (Read 3264 times)