Author Topic: What does a film director do?  (Read 1718 times)

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Phoenix Dark

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What does a film director do?
« on: February 25, 2007, 04:04:31 AM »
I basically know what they do to an extent, but I'd like to get some of the movie buffs to answer this (mainly Shake, Solo, and Willco).

I'm not talking about the coaching/directing of the actors; I get that part. More along the lines of the rest of the film. Like the camera; I've read places that director's control the camera, but then I've read other places about movies with actual camera guys who do the shots. Directors bring the script to life, but I want to get more insight
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 04:08:49 AM »
Most directors sit behind a monitor so they can "see" the shot while the actual cameramen are capturing. Now, mind you I said "most" -- guys like Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino, to name a few, actually get down and dirty themselves.

What other insight are you looking for?
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 04:10:08 AM »
Most directors sit behind a monitor so they can "see" the shot while the actual cameramen are capturing. Now, mind you I said "most" -- guys like Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino, to name a few, actually get down and dirty themselves.

What other insight are you looking for?

Do they come up with some of the more iconic angles, as well as some of the camera decisions?

Also would the director be the one to say hey, I want to use a tracking cam or whatever for this scene?
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 04:11:35 AM »
Pretty much, yeah. Of course, most directors will speak with the cinematographers first, to figure how to best capture what they're looking for.
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Ichirou

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2007, 04:15:09 AM »
To see what a director does, you should definitely watch Project Greenlight on DVD, as it's the best way to see the whole process from beginning to end.

Directors are basically in charge of the way the film is going to look, the actor's performances, what takes will be used (though that is sometimes up to the editor's discretion, unless the director is also the film's editor, which happens in some occasions), and they are basically the head honcho on the set in terms of everything from art design, cinematography, sets, costumes, to lighting, camerawork, etc.

This is why French film theorists called directors "auteurs", because out of everyone involved in making a film, they have the most direct control over the whole process.
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2007, 04:16:15 AM »
Also, check out the "Tarantino's Segment" feature on your new Sin City EE -- you get 14 minutes of uninterrupted shooting, including on-the-spot direction from the man himself.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2007, 04:20:08 AM »
Ok this makes sense. But like for instance, there's a lot of discussion about the particular style of directors, but how is this translated to screen? With Leone I've read alot about some of his style, and it's visable in movies like Once Upon a Time in the West; the close in shots of faces and such. With Spielberg for instance, he gets a lot of slack for making "generic" movies with happy endings, but it's the screenplay guy who decides the story anyway right; Spielberg didn't decide how the ending of WoTW would be lol.

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2007, 04:22:23 AM »
Speilberg worked with David Koepp on the script; he didn't write it, but he had even more say on the story during the writing stages than the actual writer. There's no doubt in my mind the happy ending was his doing.
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TVC15

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2007, 04:22:36 AM »
Directors can fuck with scripts without getting a screenwriting credit.  
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2007, 04:24:11 AM »
Directors can fuck with scripts without getting a screenwriting credit. 

Just as producers and editors can completely change a film without getting a direction credit, such as the case with the original gimped version of Brazil.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2007, 04:25:08 AM »
 :-\ I like Spielberg but the happy ending in WoTW and especially Minority Report pissed me off. It just seems like it can be done much better than having the main character embrace his family and look into the sky as the camera moves slowly into the clouds >:(
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Ichirou

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2007, 04:25:26 AM »
Ok this makes sense. But like for instance, there's a lot of discussion about the particular style of directors, but how is this translated to screen? With Leone I've read alot about some of his style, and it's visable in movies like Once Upon a Time in the West; the close in shots of faces and such. With Spielberg for instance, he gets a lot of slack for making "generic" movies with happy endings, but it's the screenplay guy who decides the story anyway right; Spielberg didn't decide how the ending of WoTW would be lol.



Leone decided how to shoot the movie.  I believe Leone was a guy who edited movies in his head and he already had sequences thought up, right down to the close-ups of the eyes.  I believe he was also one of those guys who liked to work behind the camera.  He would make sure his cinematographers knew the shots he wanted, and he would work with them until he got them.

In regards to Spielberg, he also works with screenwriters during the process and he doesn't start shooting until he's happy with the screenplay.  Some directors rewrite the script, or the story changes during the editing process as material is cut out or added.  Some directors let their actors improvise for take after take (like Altman).  The reason why Spielberg is criticized for "happy" or "sappy" endings is because he works to make sure that the screenplays he shoots have that element, and he hires screenwriters to rewrite them until he's happy with the product (or does it himself, as he did with A.I.).

You mentioned Minority Report, and that's a great example.  During test screenings, the last line of the film was Tom Cruise saying how the next year (after the telepaths were freed and taken to a forest to live), the murder rate in Washington D.C. increased by a huge number.  In general release, that line was cut out by, who else, the director.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 04:27:09 AM by Ichirou »
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2007, 04:28:10 AM »
Guys like Leone, Scorsese, Tarantino, etc. all pretty much have (had) the films edited shot-for-shot in their minds before even shooting. Especially Scorsese; the most infamous scene in Goodfellas, involving the tracking shot from the Cabana, almost didn't happen because Scorsese didn't like how he couldn't control the shot as precisely as he could otherwise.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2007, 04:30:21 AM »
Guys like Leone, Scorsese, Tarantino, etc. all pretty much have (had) the films edited shot-for-shot in their minds before even shooting. Especially Scorsese; the most infamous scene in Goodfellas, involving the tracking shot from the Cabana, almost didn't happen because Scorsese didn't like how he couldn't control the shot as precisely as he could otherwise.

Why is that shot imfamous? I watched the movie today, and while I like that part, I don't truly understand why it's as brilliant as people say it is.
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Ichirou

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2007, 04:30:45 AM »
Scorsese loves tracking shots - there's a famous one in Raging Bull as well.  He and Thelma Schoonmaker discuss editing extensively before the start of the film, Scorsese even draws little storyboards on the script which show how he intends the scene to be cut.

That's an auteur for you.

And PD, it's famous because it's a very difficult shot, and also because it's representative of the whole film - how criminal life draws you in by showing you this fantastic world that would otherwise be completely inaccessible to you.
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2007, 04:32:16 AM »
Scorsese loves tracking shots - there's a famous one in Raging Bull as well.  He and Thelma Schoonmaker discuss editing extensively before the start of the film, Scorsese even draws little storyboards on the script which show how he intends the scene to be cut.

That's an auteur for you.

Scorsese may love tracking shots, but the particular one in Goodfellas was a topic of heavy debate amongst the filmmakers. I believe they cover it on the SE DVD.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2007, 04:37:52 AM »
Scorsese loves tracking shots - there's a famous one in Raging Bull as well.  He and Thelma Schoonmaker discuss editing extensively before the start of the film, Scorsese even draws little storyboards on the script which show how he intends the scene to be cut.

That's an auteur for you.

And PD, it's famous because it's a very difficult shot, and also because it's representative of the whole film - how criminal life draws you in by showing you this fantastic world that would otherwise be completely inaccessible to you.

That definitely makes sense to me. :D

What would constitute a "bad" director? And not in the sense of Uwe, but in the sense of examples of a director just sucking during a particular movie? The thing I like about Scorsese is that he's very consise and efficient - he doesn't beat you over the head with repetitive details or similar scenes driving home similar points. In The Departed he gets to the point rather quickly while still building up the characters, while in Goodfellas he gives you a perfect glimpse into a perfectly constructed viewpoint of the world (in this case the mob)

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2007, 04:39:25 AM »
Bad director? Its all subjective, dude.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2007, 04:42:21 AM »
Obviously, but since when have you film boobs been concerned with what is fact and what is opinion? :-*
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2007, 04:45:01 AM »
 :D

Well, personally the only out-and-out "bad" directors are those who make films for the studios, and the money -- basically, without any artistic merit.
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TVC15

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2007, 04:45:25 AM »
We probably don't have a good grasp on the techniques of "bad" directors since they don't particularly want to open the doors on their productions.

From bad directors we do know, look at Ed Wood.  He was (apparently) pretty hands on and passionate in his early movies, and we all know how bad they are.

Generally, bad directors probably know that they aren't so hot, so they don't let their techniques be made public.
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Ichirou

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2007, 04:47:30 AM »
:D

Well, personally the only out-and-out "bad" directors are those who make films for the studios, and the money -- basically, without any artistic merit.

Exhibit A: Brett Ratner.
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2007, 04:48:36 AM »
"YEAH, I JUST SIT BACK AND GET THE SHOT, COUNTING MY MONIES, HOPING THE CG TEAM COVERS UP WHATEVER WE PROBABLY MISSED."

-- Average Hollywood Director
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TVC15

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2007, 04:50:04 AM »
:D

Well, personally the only out-and-out "bad" directors are those who make films for the studios, and the money -- basically, without any artistic merit.

Exhibit A: Brett Ratner.

Exhibit B:  Sam Raimi
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2007, 04:52:53 AM »
What are some scenes that are considered brilliant from a directing perspective? I've read and seen some from movies like The Third Man and Citizen Kane, so I'm thinking more along the lines of movies within the last 40 years or so
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2007, 04:53:36 AM »
Whoa now, while Raimi may be a sellout, he still puts some effort into capturing his material the way he wants -- exhibit A, the hospital scene in Spider-Man 2.

What are some scenes that are considered brilliant from a directing perspective? I've read and seen some from movies like The Third Man and Citizen Kane, so I'm thinking more along the lines of movies within the last 40 years or so

Three words: Oldboy hallway sequence.
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Ichirou

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2007, 05:00:33 AM »
There's a number of incredibly beautiful sequences in Ridley Scott's first movie, The Duellists.
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2007, 05:02:54 AM »
Directors with great visual style (not limited to, of course):

Martin Scorsese
P.T. Anderson
Robert Rodriguez
Quentin Tarantino
Sergio Leone
Sam Peckinpah
Akira Kurosawa
Chan-Wook Park
David Cronenberg
Orson Welles
David Fincher
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2007, 05:04:42 AM »
Last post for tonight:

The Oldboy Hallway Scene --- http://youtube.com/watch?v=kAjVSUkkef0

A fantastic action sequence all choreographed and shot in ONE SINGLE TAKE. :o
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Ichirou

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2007, 05:07:13 AM »
You forgot George Lucas in your list.  I'm not saying he's a great director, but he's definitely a visualist.  John Ford is the granddaddy of Kurosawa and Leone, and thus the great-granddaddy of Rodriguez and Tarantino.

But PD, directors don't have to be visual to be great - John Cassavetes was a great director and he didn't have a particularly strong visual style.  Some people like Kevin Smith, and he can't direct a camera worth shit.  A great directed scene can just involve two people talking, or can be a particularly expressive shot of a person's face, something that might seem fairly innocuous but which has great power within the context of the film.
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2007, 08:57:09 AM »
Lucas is very a strong visual director, one of the best in the past 30 years, but is a horrible director of actors. Harrison Ford said on the star wars DVD's Lucas was always frustrated with actors and was like "ITS IN THE SCRIPT, JUST DO IT!" and was always confused why they couldn't just read it and do it right without help.

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2007, 11:05:23 AM »
I basically know what they do to an extent, but I'd like to get some of the movie buffs to answer this (mainly Shake, Solo, and Willco).

I'm not talking about the coaching/directing of the actors; I get that part. More along the lines of the rest of the film. Like the camera; I've read places that director's control the camera, but then I've read other places about movies with actual camera guys who do the shots. Directors bring the script to life, but I want to get more insight

The director is the thread that ties everything together. He works with the actors to get them in the right frame of mind for the scene they are shooting, and keeps making little tweaks until the actors give the performance the director wants. He also works closely with the DP/cinematographer on many levels, from the big issues like what sort of shots he wants, to the composition of shots, to the lighting, to more minor things like color filters and image saturation. Its the cinematographer's job to capture the images, but its the director that is telling him what images to capture, and in what manner to do so. Certain director's like Ridley Scott and Michael Mann are almost DP's themselves, as they shoot a lot of stuff themselves. The director can make unsanctioned changes to the script too, if he feels certain changes will better suit his vision. If its a film with lots of effects, then the director would spend a lot of time in pre-viz, communicating with ILM/WETA/etc exactly what he is looking for. Once the film is shot and in the can, and things shift into post-production, the editor and the director will get together and piece the movie together. The editor is making the cuts, and the director will often be choosing which takes get used.

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Also would the director be the one to say hey, I want to use a tracking cam or whatever for this scene?

Yes. As has been mentioned, Marty is pretty much the king of the tracking shot. Most of his films feature at least one major one, and some are amongst the most famous in film history. Dont look to The Departed for one, though, as you wont find it. Scorsese ditched a lot of his usual techniques in that film.

Ok this makes sense. But like for instance, there's a lot of discussion about the particular style of directors, but how is this translated to screen? With Leone I've read alot about some of his style, and it's visable in movies like Once Upon a Time in the West; the close in shots of faces and such.

That's pretty much how it is translated. Leone's style was filmmaking that bordered on still life photography. He loved a nice wide frame, with very little motion going on, and very little clutter in the composition of his shots. Then he liked to hold these shots for an extended period of time. His other stylistic trademark, which is on pitch perfect display in my favorite scene of all time in film, the cemetary shootout in TGTBATU, is the juxtaposition of extremely tight closeups and long shots. He uses them in rapid fire in that scene, to great effect, matched up with Morricone's score.


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Leone decided how to shoot the movie.  I believe Leone was a guy who edited movies in his head and he already had sequences thought up, right down to the close-ups of the eyes.  I believe he was also one of those guys who liked to work behind the camera.  He would make sure his cinematographers knew the shots he wanted, and he would work with them until he got them.

Yup. The other unique and awesome thing about Leone was with respect to his use of Morricone's scores. Most filmmakers shoot the movie, then the composer comes in, and crafts his music around the rough cut of the film. This standard practice is what Leone and Morricone did on Fistful of Dollars. However, for all their other film collaborations, they worked in a truly unique way. Leone would have Morricone compose, conduct, and record the score before filming ever began, and then he would craft his sequences around Morricone's soundscape. He would blare Morricone's music on-set to get the actors in the appropriate headspace. A brilliant scene like the shootout in TGTBATU was 100% a product of Leone marrying his shots and cuts to Morricone's amazing score.

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2007, 11:11:57 AM »
Yup. The other unique and awesome thing about Leone was with respect to his use of Morricone's scores. Most filmmakers shoot the movie, then the composer comes in, and crafts his music around the rough cut of the film. This standard practice is what Leone and Morricone did on Fistful of Dollars. However, for all their other film collaborations, they worked in a truly unique way. Leone would have Morricone compose, conduct, and record the score before filming ever began, and then he would craft his sequences around Morricone's soundscape. He would blare Morricone's music on-set to get the actors in the appropriate headspace. A brilliant scene like the shootout in TGTBATU was 100% a product of Leone marrying his shots and cuts to Morricone's amazing score.

I'll tell you something interesting I read the other day.  I was reading Waiting on the Weather: Making Movies with Akira Kurosawa, a sort of memoir by Teruyo Nogami, who worked with Kurosawa for over 50 years.  She wrote how starting in the '60s, he got into trouble with the composers on his movies because he liked to edit his movies using classical music for the soundtrack.  The edits would reflect the pacing and rhythms of the pieces he used, and he would then tell his composers "I want something like this for this part of the movie."  This would piss off the composers to no end, as they were forced to compete with composers like Bach, and Kurosawa would be dismissive of their efforts if they couldn't surpass what was on the temp score!  Some composers even quit on him due to this!  :lol

Morricone and Leone's collaboration is pretty legendary in the world of movie making because it's extremely rare for a composer and a director to work so closely in a film.  Oftentimes Morricone's stuff would displease Leone, which would piss off Morricone to no end, but he'd end up saving the composition and using it in other non-Leone films, heh.

For Leone's funeral, Morricone played Jill's theme from Once Upon a Time in the West.  :'(
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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2007, 11:14:01 AM »
Yup, Morricone and Leone had a real firecracker of a relationship. In fact, I believe they stopped talking for many years. Kind of like how Scorsese and De Niro didnt collaborate for a bunch of years after The King Of Comedy, since they almost killed eachother during its filming.

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2007, 01:24:57 PM »
Lucas is very a strong visual director, one of the best in the past 30 years, but is a horrible director of actors. Harrison Ford said on the star wars DVD's Lucas was always frustrated with actors and was like "ITS IN THE SCRIPT, JUST DO IT!" and was always confused why they couldn't just read it and do it right without help.

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Phoenix Dark

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2007, 01:32:47 PM »
Hm very informative thread FTW

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Re: What does a film director do?
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2007, 01:35:48 PM »
:hyper
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