Author Topic: Triumph, are you a history major or something?  (Read 5697 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« on: April 19, 2007, 04:50:24 PM »
It's rare that I meet someone on the Internet whose understanding and knowledge of history far, far surpasses my own.  Not that I'm a buff, it's just that most people on the Internet are complete morons - so it's rather easy to use an elementary understanding of Social Studies to trump people in debates.
PSP

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 04:51:44 PM »
When you don't have a job, you make up for it with Hobbies. Like when I moved to the Seattle area and was unemployed for three months i became one of the best BF1942 engineers ever.
o_0

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 04:54:54 PM »
I don't think so, because we all met at meetings and nobody dropped your name.
PSP

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2007, 04:55:27 PM »
When you don't have a job, you make up for it with Hobbies. Like when I moved to the Seattle area and was unemployed for three months i became one of the best BF1942 engineers ever.
except that triumph's hobby is apparently useful... yours... not so much

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 04:56:06 PM »
I killed Derek Smart in Battlefield 1942 at long range with a scopeless no4 rifle!
o_0

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2007, 04:56:39 PM »
When you don't have a job, you make up for it with Hobbies. Like when I moved to the Seattle area and was unemployed for three months i became one of the best BF1942 engineers ever.
except that triumph's hobby is apparently useful... yours... not so much

Yes, buy my job is far more useful than his hobbies.
o_0

CajoleJuice

  • kill me
  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2007, 04:57:49 PM »
When you don't have a job, you make up for it with Hobbies. Like when I moved to the Seattle area and was unemployed for three months i became one of the best BF1942 engineers ever.
except that triumph's hobby is apparently useful... yours... not so much

Yes, buy my job is far more useful than his hobbies.

Oh snap!
AMC

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 04:59:02 PM »
When you don't have a job, you make up for it with Hobbies. Like when I moved to the Seattle area and was unemployed for three months i became one of the best BF1942 engineers ever.
except that triumph's hobby is apparently useful... yours... not so much

Yes, buy my job is far more useful than his hobbies.
sick burn.

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2007, 04:59:42 PM »
I killed Derek Smart in Battlefield 1942 at long range with a scopeless no4 rifle!

Derek Smart is a bum.  I stabbed Derek Smart in the back with a knife.  When he was facing me!  And there was a 10 second delay!
PSP

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 05:01:01 PM »
Derek Smart is underrated.

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2007, 05:01:26 PM »
Was.   :-\  Didn't graduate.  And MAF, yeah your job IS far more valuable than my hobbies.   :-\

I read a lot; history and sociology are very interesting to me.  It's hilarious that mankind keeps making the same kinds of mistakes with drastically more dangerous technology.  So it goes.
yar

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2007, 05:01:45 PM »
whos's Derek Smart?

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2007, 05:02:30 PM »
Derek Smart is underrated.

As a developer or BF1942 player? I think my favorite BF1942 moment was when Morphix had found me on a server and we proceeded to ignore the war and just kill each other over and over. I think he ran me over with a jeep and I landed a plane on him. It was pretty fun.

Triumph: Wasn't really meant as a dig, I like reading about history too.
o_0

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2007, 05:03:52 PM »
Oh, I didn't take it as a dig, I'm just super bummed about my lack of employment.  I'm seriously thinking about selling my car and the rest of my shit and moving to New York to work on film post-production.
yar

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 05:04:28 PM »
Was.   :-\  Didn't graduate.

I knew it!

My favorite Battlefield 1942 moment was when Mike_Works and I went on some high profile, super competitive Wake server and ignored the war to jeep race from one part of the island to the other.  We'd be racing through enemy capture points and they'd shoot at us.  Then our side would yell for us to pick them up and get angered that we weren't helping fight.
PSP

CajoleJuice

  • kill me
  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2007, 05:05:33 PM »
Oh, I didn't take it as a dig, I'm just super bummed about my lack of employment.  I'm seriously thinking about selling my car and the rest of my shit and moving to New York to work on film post-production.

Do it! I will go into the city just to find you and yell at your dirty Braves-loving ass.
AMC

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2007, 05:05:57 PM »
MAF: As a developer. :)

Triumph: You should totally do it.  You've been in pretty much the same situation since I've noticed you on the board.  Except that short period that you were employed.  Time for a change, babe

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 05:06:11 PM »
Triumph, if it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat - it blows.  I'm looking at emergency gigs this entire week for funds.
PSP

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 05:06:33 PM »
Oh, I didn't take it as a dig, I'm just super bummed about my lack of employment.  I'm seriously thinking about selling my car and the rest of my shit and moving to New York to work on film post-production.

Do it! I will go into the city just to find you and yell at your dirty Braves-loving ass.
my grandma loves the braves  >:(

G The Resurrected

  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2007, 05:08:37 PM »
One thing i know about history. Its Doomed to repeat itself!

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 05:09:02 PM »
Oh, I didn't take it as a dig, I'm just super bummed about my lack of employment.  I'm seriously thinking about selling my car and the rest of my shit and moving to New York to work on film post-production.

Do it! I will go into the city just to find you and yell at your dirty Braves-loving ass.

lolz.  One of my buddies has pretty much guaranteed me a job helping him edit at a post house.  I'm seriously considering it, but I'm really, really gun shy of taking him up for the simple fact that the last four people who said they could help me get a job have all fallen through.  I'm basically to the point now where I have to get a shit job just to start taking in some money, and I hate the thought of that.

However, since I've made so little money so far this year and that trend is likely to continue, I'm seriously pondering just making enough to barely subsist off of for a year and then getting a whole assload of financial aid and finishing my degree.  I've got a little bit less than two years left, and then maybe I could get into law school before Malek.
yar

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 05:09:41 PM »
One thing i know about history. Its Doomed to repeat itself!
did you get that off of a fortune cookie?  :-\

Flannel Boy

  • classic millennial sex pickle
  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2007, 05:11:26 PM »
I've got a little bit less than two years left, and then maybe I could get into law school before Malek.
God damn it!  >:(

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2007, 05:15:37 PM »
Hey, just apply to Regent University and you could be working for President Bush in no time!
PSP

G The Resurrected

  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2007, 05:17:06 PM »
One thing i know about history. Its Doomed to repeat itself!
did you get that off of a fortune cookie?  :-\

Yeah i got that cookie long ago. But its all good i didnt eat the cookie. It doesnt happen if you dont eat the cookie. So i'm safe for now.

 :lol


bluemax

  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2007, 05:18:28 PM »
One thing i know about history. Its Doomed to repeat itself!

One thing I learned this semester is that most of Chinese History is a ridiculous repetitive cycle. They didn't learn their lesson until it was way too late.

Derek Smart sucks.
NO

G The Resurrected

  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2007, 05:20:14 PM »
Mongolians ant the wall, yeep the chinese never learned.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2007, 05:22:07 PM »
Like Cheebs, I too am a lover of American history, especially as it relates to presidents.

Teddy is my favorite president :heartbeat
010

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2007, 05:35:44 PM »
Like Cheebs, I too am a lover of American history, especially as it relates to presidents.

Teddy is my favorite president :heartbeat


FDR>Teddy :shh

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2007, 05:38:35 PM »
Like Cheebs, I too am a lover of American history, especially as it relates to presidents.

Teddy is my favorite president :heartbeat


FDR>Teddy :shh

FDR is overrated, just like JKF. It seems like Americans like emotionally manipulative success stories - and what's more emotionally manipulative than the idea that even as a cripple (legless or headless) YOU TOO can become the president of the United States
010

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2007, 05:50:09 PM »
Like Cheebs, I too am a lover of American history, especially as it relates to presidents.

Teddy is my favorite president :heartbeat


FDR>Teddy :shh

FDR is overrated, just like JKF. It seems like Americans like emotionally manipulative success stories - and what's more emotionally manipulative than the idea that even as a cripple (legless or headless) YOU TOO can become the president of the United States
I "love" JFK due to his presidency being insanely facinating and the fact he is so likeable. But I agree, he didn't do too much. Most of the grand social changes of the 60's were inacted by LBJ even though most people on the street would assume credit to kennedy

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2007, 06:19:47 PM »
Like Cheebs, I too am a lover of American history, especially as it relates to presidents.

Teddy is my favorite president :heartbeat


FDR>Teddy :shh

FDR is overrated, just like JKF. It seems like Americans like emotionally manipulative success stories - and what's more emotionally manipulative than the idea that even as a cripple (legless or headless) YOU TOO can become the president of the United States

Dude, you are the fucking king of emotionally manipulative bullshit.

Kennedy aside, how is FDR's story emotionally manipulative?  They tried to keep him being confined to a wheelchair out of public view, and unlike Kennedy, the complaint that he didn't do much is completely unwarranted.  Like it or not, FDR did a god-damned lot.  He'll be remembered for doing a lot more than probably 90%+ of other presidents.

You're such a fucking idiot, PD.
serge

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2007, 06:21:34 PM »
Like Cheebs, I too am a lover of American history, especially as it relates to presidents.

Teddy is my favorite president :heartbeat


FDR>Teddy :shh

FDR is overrated, just like JKF. It seems like Americans like emotionally manipulative success stories - and what's more emotionally manipulative than the idea that even as a cripple (legless or headless) YOU TOO can become the president of the United States

Dude, you are the fucking king of emotionally manipulative bullshit.

Kennedy aside, how is FDR's story emotionally manipulative?  They tried to keep him being confined to a wheelchair out of public view, and unlike Kennedy, the complaint that he didn't do much is completely unwarranted.  Like it or not, FDR did a god-damned lot.  He'll be remembered for doing a lot more than probably 90%+ of other presidents.

You're such a fucking idiot, PD.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Dude, are you serious? TVC, are you fucking serious :lol
010

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2007, 06:32:45 PM »
PD historians consistently rank FDR as one of the 3 best presidents alongside Lincoln and Washington you know right?

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2007, 06:33:40 PM »
FDR is easily the most important President of the last century.
PSP

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2007, 06:34:44 PM »
I don't usually join in on the PD bashing but...

Phoenix Dark
A for affort


Van Cruncheon

  • live mas or die trying
  • Banned
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2007, 06:35:35 PM »
jesus christ, you're totally ignorant of history if you think fdr isn't one of the most influential and important presidents of this country. this is worse than your review of unforgiven. it's okay to go OH HE WUZ A SOCIALIST I HATE HIM LOL but to ignore the impact he had on our country as it currently exists is to be so fundamentally ignorant of 20th century history as to make us all stupider for simply having been exposed to your post.
duc

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2007, 06:40:48 PM »
FDR is easily the most important President of the last century.
I'd say its pretty damn safe to say he is the most important president since Lincoln.

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2007, 06:43:07 PM »
As a nutso Libertarian, I don't even like FDR, but to claim that the only reason people like him is:

Quote
FDR is overrated, just like JKF. It seems like Americans like emotionally manipulative success stories - and what's more emotionally manipulative than the idea that even as a cripple (legless or headless) YOU TOO can become the president of the United States

is abso-fucking-lutely Unforgiven trolling ridiculous.

And I love how you are slinging emotionally manipulative around like an insult, when in previous discussions concerning your movie tastes, you couldn't understand how the label could be seen as an insult.  You cry to Forrest Gump and To Kill a Mockingbird, yet you are saying EMOTIONALLY MANIPULATIVE is a BAD THING in this case (even though FDR's story is shockingly not emotionally manipulative).

serge

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2007, 06:45:14 PM »
He could declare himself King back during WWII(not seriously, but still) and America would have probably not cared and they didn't have a clue he was a cripple

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2007, 07:12:50 PM »
Cheebs back me up. I've stated many times that I respect FDR. He is indeed the most important president of the last century. That being said, I think he's overrated. I think he's reached a level of mythological proportions to the point that people are unwilling to call things like they are. He was a step back in terms of civil rights. He presided over one of the largest violations of the constitution (internment). While some would put far more emphasis on his actions at Yalta, I won't go that far; he was rather sick at the time.

FDR was a very smart politician who did what was best for himself throughout his career. In many ways this is what defined his presidency and made it a direct opposition to Teddy's.
010

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2007, 07:13:32 PM »
As a nutso Libertarian, I don't even like FDR, but to claim that the only reason people like him is:

Quote
FDR is overrated, just like JKF. It seems like Americans like emotionally manipulative success stories - and what's more emotionally manipulative than the idea that even as a cripple (legless or headless) YOU TOO can become the president of the United States

is abso-fucking-lutely Unforgiven trolling ridiculous.

And I love how you are slinging emotionally manipulative around like an insult, when in previous discussions concerning your movie tastes, you couldn't understand how the label could be seen as an insult.  You cry to Forrest Gump and To Kill a Mockingbird, yet you are saying EMOTIONALLY MANIPULATIVE is a BAD THING in this case (even though FDR's story is shockingly not emotionally manipulative)


And this is why I'm shocked you didn't get the post
010

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2007, 07:19:34 PM »
Cheebs back me up. I've stated many times that I respect FDR. He is indeed the most important president of the last century. That being said, I think he's overrated. I think he's reached a level of mythological proportions to the point that people are unwilling to call things like they are. He was a step back in terms of civil rights. He presided over one of the largest violations of the constitution (internment). While some would put far more emphasis on his actions at Yalta, I won't go that far; he was rather sick at the time.

FDR was a very smart politician who did what was best for himself throughout his career. In many ways this is what defined his presidency and made it a direct opposition to Teddy's.

FDR ensured that minorities got fair jobs in the various programs he created in the 30s.  The internment camps were wrong, yes, but it's not like it was done because they thought pacific islanders were less than other people.  Saying "He was a step back in terms of civil rights" is absolutely wrong. 

You still haven't qualified how he is overrated, either.  Like I said, I don't particularly like a lot of his policy, and I think he set some nasty precedents leading to the welfare state of today, but it is 100% inarguable that his presidency had an absolutely enormous influence on America, even up until today.  How do you overrate that, exactly?  We're still feeling the consequences of things he did.

serge

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2007, 07:27:17 PM »
Cheebs back me up. I've stated many times that I respect FDR. He is indeed the most important president of the last century. That being said, I think he's overrated. I think he's reached a level of mythological proportions to the point that people are unwilling to call things like they are. He was a step back in terms of civil rights. He presided over one of the largest violations of the constitution (internment). While some would put far more emphasis on his actions at Yalta, I won't go that far; he was rather sick at the time.

FDR was a very smart politician who did what was best for himself throughout his career. In many ways this is what defined his presidency and made it a direct opposition to Teddy's.

FDR ensured that minorities got fair jobs in the various programs he created in the 30s.  The internment camps were wrong, yes, but it's not like it was done because they thought pacific islanders were less than other people.  Saying "He was a step back in terms of civil rights" is absolutely wrong. 

You still haven't qualified how he is overrated, either.  Like I said, I don't particularly like a lot of his policy, and I think he set some nasty precedents leading to the welfare state of today, but it is 100% inarguable that his presidency had an absolutely enormous influence on America, even up until today.  How do you overrate that, exactly?  We're still feeling the consequences of things he did.


Actually many of his programs hurt minorities - albiet in more of a disparate impact way. Sharecroppers especially were effected by some of his legislation.

And that's another thing that annoys me about him. Like LBJ, FDR was very effective as a presidential whip so to speak - he was able to convince congressmen to go along with his legislation, even if they weren't exactly in support of it. Yet he never attempted to use his bully pulpit power or influence to achieve anything related to civil rights. Elenaor basically begged him to sign the anti lynching bill (he didn't). This is about character. LBJ (yes, in total he's not the greatest example of "character") pushed civil rights despite his southern roots, and was able to convince enough of his southern buddies to actually pass the thing. FDR could have done this, but instead decided it would hurt him politically. Which of course is puzzling because of the emmense support he had throughout his presidency

010

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2007, 07:29:39 PM »
Cheebs back me up. I've stated many times that I respect FDR. He is indeed the most important president of the last century. That being said, I think he's overrated. I think he's reached a level of mythological proportions to the point that people are unwilling to call things like they are. He was a step back in terms of civil rights. He presided over one of the largest violations of the constitution (internment). While some would put far more emphasis on his actions at Yalta, I won't go that far; he was rather sick at the time.

FDR was a very smart politician who did what was best for himself throughout his career. In many ways this is what defined his presidency and made it a direct opposition to Teddy's.

FDR ensured that minorities got fair jobs in the various programs he created in the 30s.  The internment camps were wrong, yes, but it's not like it was done because they thought pacific islanders were less than other people.  Saying "He was a step back in terms of civil rights" is absolutely wrong. 

You still haven't qualified how he is overrated, either.  Like I said, I don't particularly like a lot of his policy, and I think he set some nasty precedents leading to the welfare state of today, but it is 100% inarguable that his presidency had an absolutely enormous influence on America, even up until today.  How do you overrate that, exactly?  We're still feeling the consequences of things he did.


Actually many of his programs hurt minorities - albiet in more of a disparate impact way. Sharecroppers especially were effected by some of his legislation.

And that's another thing that annoys me about him. Like LBJ, FDR was very effective as a presidential whip so to speak - he was able to convince congressmen to go along with his legislation, even if they weren't exactly in support of it. Yet he never attempted to use his bully pulpit power or influence to achieve anything related to civil rights. Elenaor basically begged him to sign the anti lynching bill (he didn't). This is about character. LBJ (yes, in total he's not the greatest example of "character") pushed civil rights despite his southern roots, and was able to convince enough of his southern buddies to actually pass the thing. FDR could have done this, but instead decided it would hurt him politically. Which of course is puzzling because of the emmense support he had throughout his presidency



Aherm, PD:

Quote
Roosevelt explained his reluctance to support anti-lynching legislation in a conversation with Walter White of the NAACP. "I did not choose the tools with which I must work. Had I been permitted to choose then I would have selected quite different ones. But I've got to get legislation passed by Congress to save America. The Southerners by reason of the seniority rule in Congress are chairmen or occupy strategic places on most of the Senate and House committees. If I come out for the anti-lynching bill now, they will block every bill I ask Congress to pass to keep America from collapsing. I just can't take that risk."

Attacking his stances on civil rights isn't easy because it's a complicated subject.  It is, however, absolute hyperbole to say he was a step back in civil rights.  He wasn't a Republican, after all.
serge

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2007, 07:32:00 PM »
It was also the 1940's and 30's, its very hard to compare to LBJ in the 60's with the gigantic rise in social awareness and such that happened in that decade that was not there for FDR.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2007, 07:34:40 PM »
Cheebs back me up. I've stated many times that I respect FDR. He is indeed the most important president of the last century. That being said, I think he's overrated. I think he's reached a level of mythological proportions to the point that people are unwilling to call things like they are. He was a step back in terms of civil rights. He presided over one of the largest violations of the constitution (internment). While some would put far more emphasis on his actions at Yalta, I won't go that far; he was rather sick at the time.

FDR was a very smart politician who did what was best for himself throughout his career. In many ways this is what defined his presidency and made it a direct opposition to Teddy's.

FDR ensured that minorities got fair jobs in the various programs he created in the 30s.  The internment camps were wrong, yes, but it's not like it was done because they thought pacific islanders were less than other people.  Saying "He was a step back in terms of civil rights" is absolutely wrong. 

You still haven't qualified how he is overrated, either.  Like I said, I don't particularly like a lot of his policy, and I think he set some nasty precedents leading to the welfare state of today, but it is 100% inarguable that his presidency had an absolutely enormous influence on America, even up until today.  How do you overrate that, exactly?  We're still feeling the consequences of things he did.


Actually many of his programs hurt minorities - albiet in more of a disparate impact way. Sharecroppers especially were effected by some of his legislation.

And that's another thing that annoys me about him. Like LBJ, FDR was very effective as a presidential whip so to speak - he was able to convince congressmen to go along with his legislation, even if they weren't exactly in support of it. Yet he never attempted to use his bully pulpit power or influence to achieve anything related to civil rights. Elenaor basically begged him to sign the anti lynching bill (he didn't). This is about character. LBJ (yes, in total he's not the greatest example of "character") pushed civil rights despite his southern roots, and was able to convince enough of his southern buddies to actually pass the thing. FDR could have done this, but instead decided it would hurt him politically. Which of course is puzzling because of the emmense support he had throughout his presidency



Aherm, PD:

Quote
Roosevelt explained his reluctance to support anti-lynching legislation in a conversation with Walter White of the NAACP. "I did not choose the tools with which I must work. Had I been permitted to choose then I would have selected quite different ones. But I've got to get legislation passed by Congress to save America. The Southerners by reason of the seniority rule in Congress are chairmen or occupy strategic places on most of the Senate and House committees. If I come out for the anti-lynching bill now, they will block every bill I ask Congress to pass to keep America from collapsing. I just can't take that risk."

Attacking his stances on civil rights isn't easy because it's a complicated subject.  It is, however, absolute hyperbole to say he was a step back in civil rights.  He wasn't a Republican, after all.

Quote
But I've got to get legislation passed by Congress to save America.

But not African Americans? Ah, ok.

Quote from: TVC
Attacking his stances on civil rights isn't easy because it's a complicated subject.  It is, however, absolute hyperbole to say he was a step back in civil rights.  He wasn't a Republican, after all.

I disagree. Even the quote you provided sounds passive and uncaring. And with respect to your comment on Republicans, perhaps you have forgotten that in terms of civil rights, the Democrats were even more blatantly racist than the current Republican party. KKK memberships anyone?

And also, Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican president, did far more in terms of civil rights.
010

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2007, 07:37:48 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to see that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.
serge

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2007, 07:42:04 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different
010

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2007, 07:43:53 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different

Teddy was progressive and he really didn't fit into one party or another.  He liked unions but he also liked making shit illegal.
serge

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2007, 07:45:00 PM »
Teddy was a Al Goreish environmentalist too. He has nothing in common with the post-Nixon republican party. However the Democratic Party's domestic agenda to this day was set in stone by FDR.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2007, 07:46:02 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different

Teddy was progressive and he really didn't fit into one party or another.  He liked unions but he also liked making shit illegal.

He was a progressive Republican. Is that so hard to admit?

He realized business was very important for the economic development of the country, but at the same time he refused to sit back and let businesses do whatever they wanted
010

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2007, 07:47:20 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different

Teddy was progressive and he really didn't fit into one party or another.  He liked unions but he also liked making shit illegal.

He was a progressive Republican. Is that so hard to admit?
Teddy's party has absolutely nothing in common with the party today. It is useless and pure nonsense to attach party labels that far back.

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2007, 07:47:46 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different

Teddy was progressive and he really didn't fit into one party or another.  He liked unions but he also liked making shit illegal.

He was a progressive Republican. Is that so hard to admit?

He realized business was very important for the economic development of the country, but at the same time he refused to sit back and let businesses do whatever they wanted

Refused to let businesses do whatever they wanted?  That's very Republican.
serge

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2007, 07:49:39 PM »
PD, just drop the republican label. It has NOTHING to do with the republican party today.

Thomas Jefferson was the first democratic president and yet he was a huge advocate of states right and rather pro-slavery.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2007, 07:50:15 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different

Teddy was progressive and he really didn't fit into one party or another.  He liked unions but he also liked making shit illegal.

He was a progressive Republican. Is that so hard to admit?
Teddy's party has absolutely nothing in common with the party today. It is useless and pure nonsense to attach party labels that far back.

And this is what I don't think TVC understands, unless he's being sarcastic. 70 years ago the Democrats were nothing like they are today, and no one could honestly call them the party of "social/civil rights". Just ask Senator Bryd
010

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2007, 07:51:43 PM »
Yes, that quote totally sounds passive and uncaring.  When you have already painted someone as a racist and are reading text, you tend to have that effect.

And don't forget Teddy abandoned his political party, so I think it's kind of disingenuous to paint him as a typical Republican.

There's more to the story than him simply leaving the party though. In many ways it was started by Taft's back stabbing of Roosevelt - or at least that's how Roosevelt saw it.

Teddy was a Republican through and through, the problem is that today Republican means something very different

Teddy was progressive and he really didn't fit into one party or another.  He liked unions but he also liked making shit illegal.

He was a progressive Republican. Is that so hard to admit?
Teddy's party has absolutely nothing in common with the party today. It is useless and pure nonsense to attach party labels that far back.

And this is what I don't think TVC understands, unless he's being sarcastic. 70 years ago the Democrats were nothing like they are today, and no one could honestly call them the party of "social/civil rights". Just ask Senator Bryd
As I said. Thomas Jefferson one of the founders of the Dem' party but masturbated to states rights.

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2007, 07:52:08 PM »
You know what PD doesn't understand?  FDR's presidency.  HE'S OVERRATED!!!!!!
serge

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2007, 07:59:07 PM »
You know what PD doesn't understand?  FDR's presidency.  HE'S OVERRATED!!!!!!

He is. People should give him credit for keeping the country together, winning the war, and putting us on the road to economic recovery (although no, the New Deal did not end the Great Depression). Sadly his economic plans didn't effect most blacks (and other minorities), some of his economic decisions were pretty loony, and his decision on the internment camps was quite...Republican-like, to use a TVCism.

If I was a fool I'd say he also handed half of Europe over to the Russians. That's still being debated today, and some of the details (like his health) are sketchy at best
010

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Triumph, are you a history major or something?
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2007, 08:02:34 PM »
You know what PD doesn't understand?  FDR's presidency.  HE'S OVERRATED!!!!!!

He is. People should give him credit for keeping the country together, winning the war, and putting us on the road to economic recovery (although no, the New Deal did not end the Great Depression).

Yes, ANYONE could've done that, right?

I'm sorry that civil rights took a back seat to the depression and world war 2, PD.  I don't know if you ever learned about those.  You see, the civilized world was kind of on the brink of total collapse.
serge