And I can not believe you went back to the Islam prohibits suicide argument. Is 'Do not destroy yourselves' very definitive ? Especially with all the verses that support martyrdom? It seems pretty clear that the prohibition against suicide has plenty of asterisks.
AGAIN, innocent according to whom? The oppressors and aggressors?
The Prophet said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,' he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him." Sahih Bukhari 2:445
Where's the asterisk in that?
That's from the Hadith, not from the Koran.
And you are missing the point. The mujahidins, or whoever, do not believe they are committing suicide like some little emo boys from California. NO, they are performing an act of martyrdom, dying in a Jihad for Allah. They won't get punished by God for their actions, far from it. THEY WILL GET REWARDED. So whether Islam prohibits suicide is irrelevant since, in their eyes, they are not committing suicide.
"Do not kill yourselves, for Allah is compassionate towards you. Whoever does so, in transgression and wrongfully, We shall roast in a fire, and that is an easy matter for Allah." (an-Nisaa 4:29-30)Once again how does the actions of a cult prove what they are doing is right (in accordance with Islam)? You still haven't made the connection, and the verse sums it up. So...what's your point?
I can pluck a verse out the Bible and make it seem as if we can start the "tribulation clock" and bring about the rapture. I can pluck a verse out the Bible and make it seem like Christians today are to give 10% of their wealth to the church. I can pluck a verse out the Bible and make it seem like people are either predisposed for salvation or damnation and there's nothing they can do...that doesn't make it accurate. Every religion suffers from the flaws of man, interpeting things.
My point is that, by saying that certain interpretations of the Koran are wrong/inaccurate, there must be an interpretation that is right/accurate.
Now, it's clear to see why you'd believe that about the Bible. Because you believe in God, and that the Bible is based on revelations from God. So obviously God was intending to get a certain message through, and that message is the correct interpretation.
However, you don't think the Koran is holy. God did not dictate it. It is the product of humans, falsely claiming it to be from God. In which case, why would there not be room for interpretation, especially considering all the disagreements throughout history?
On what basis does one assume that there is One True Reading of the Koran?
Interesting point. I don't believe the Koran is holy or the word of god, and on the opposite side of the spectrum Muslims feel the same way about the Bible. That being said, the Koran was written with a distint message. According to Muslims it is God's words, as written down by Mohammed. I look at it from that perspective when I read the Koran and talk to my Muslim friends. The Bible for instance makes it pretty clear that Jesus is the son of God. Even from an outside view it would be nigh impossible to deny that; what I am saying is that while you may not believe the Bible at all, you would be hard pressed to read it and come to the conclusion that it doesn't teach that Jesus is the son of God.
Suicide in Islam is faced with of a definitive answer, obviously. Despite that, we must first ask what does the text actually say. There are many verses in the Koran which not only preach against suicide but also the spilling of innocent blood. The Koran also makes it clear that the faith is to be defended when threatened; if one's ability to serve Allah is taken away, it must be taken back. You'd be hard pressed to find any respected Islamic scholars who feel the US deserved 911 based on that interpetation. The Koran teaches that those responsible for that breach are to be attacked; not the innocent
Both Islam and Christianity have certain articles of faith which aren't really open to interpetation. With Islam - Allah is god, Mohammed is his prophet, etc. With Christianity - Sola Scriptura, the death burial and ressurection of Christ, substitutionary atonement , etc. There are of course sects of Christianity that disagree with some of these articles. Calvinists for instance don't honestly believe in substitutionary atonement; I would label them as a cult of Christianity, and I consider it to be as blaphemous as you can get. And after being trapped in a car with one during a 4 hour trip to Chicago I'm not too fond of them, although I would still disagree peacefully.
