R.I.P. Sony

[Ichirou]

Ok... so how does Kirby play differently, because it uses Stylus for movement? It is still the same game and mechanics.

Metal Gear Acid and Metal Gear Solid are two different animals, they are two completely different gametypes.

It's a different experience to any other platformer I've ever played.

At any rate, when you asked me for a list of games, you didn't give me any conditions as to whether they could be franchise titles or not.  You simply asked me for a list of games that are good.

[demi]

Uh, so did you, and I used your criteria.

[Ichirou]

Uh, so did you, and I used your criteria.

You should have specified you wanted me to list the games using the same criteria I set out for PSP titles, then.  The DS is different because it carries on Nintendo's lineage of portable gaming, whereas the PSP depends on shit that was originally designed to be played on consoles.

[The Sceneman]

[Ichirou]

Can we please get back to talking about how Sony is dead after this gen?

[The Sceneman]

PSP is really successful

[FatalT]

PSP is really successful

Compared to the current sales of the Atari 2600.

[tiesto]

PSP is really successful

Compared to the current sales of the Atari 2600.

And compared to the PS3

[Cheebs]

wii will still outsell ps3 in japan next week futami

[futami]

wii will still outsell ps3 in japan next week futami

you're a loser who pines for the failure of a system.

fuck off, man.

as a gamer, i'd like to see the ps3 succeed. i don't even wish to see the 360 or wii fail, which separates me from you.

[Cheebs]

wii will still outsell ps3 in japan next week futami

you're a loser who pines for the failure of a system.

fuck off, man.

as a gamer, i'd like to see the ps3 succeed. i don't even wish to see the 360 or wii fail, which separates me from you.

I don't wish for PS3 to fail, I just plain don't care if it succeeds or not. It's not my problem. I am WATCHING it fail but I don't have a emotional investment in it's failure. But it's failed and there is no precedent for it rising from where it has fallen in the history of gaming. Systems never go from dead last to first place.

It's not just a price issue, it's not just a game issue. It's a simple fact of PS3 (and 360 which is also struggling) don't offer what most consumers want. Which is light simple party entertainment software.

[futami]

so, suddenly the owners of the ps2 and xbox 1, who were interested in far more than light fare, don't count?

they don't matter?

grandmothers have superceded them as the primary gaming demo?

sure..

the fact is, once the price of the 360 and ps3 fall, the wii is a dead system.

[Cheebs]

the fact is, once the price of the 360 and ps3 fall, the wii is a dead system.

that's not how the industy works kiddo. Price drops bring boosts in sales that are temporary then go back to normal. A price drop has NEVER sent a system off into first place.

Wii is the market leader, I prefer 360 and you prefer PS3 but the fact remains there are MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANY more casual family types that want simple entertainment than want the "bigger" games, its just no one tapped into them before.

[tiesto]

Price drops aren't gonna help either the 360 or PS3 that much in the long run... The American, European, and Japanese populace made up their minds already and they want Wiis. The race for 2nd place will be more interesting, considering the market split on the PS3/360.

[Cheebs]

Price drops aren't gonna help either the 360 or PS3 that much in the long run... The American, European, and Japanese populace made up their minds already and they want Wiis. The race for 2nd place will be more interesting, considering the market split on the PS3/360.

exactly. Discuss who will be second place. Trying to predict wii's downfall is so...so...2005.

[futami]

Price drops aren't gonna help either the 360 or PS3 that much in the long run... The American, European, and Japanese populace made up their minds already and they want Wiis. The race for 2nd place will be more interesting, considering the market split on the PS3/360.

i have plenty of friends who're gamers, and not a single one of them have any interest in a wii.

it's FAR too early, with both the 360 and ps3 prohibitively priced, to be declaring the wii victor.

fact of the matter is, MOST of the gamers of last year, those on the xbox and ps2, do _not_ -- nor want to -- own a wii.

but hey, guys, keep the hope alive.

when the games are plentiful, and the pricing is consumer-friendly, the ps3 and 360 -- with their TRUE NEXT-GEN experience (moreso the ps3 than the 360) -- will tag team that glorified gamecube.

lastly, WHY would any of you want that dated piece of shit to win this generation?

the best looking games on the system -- super mario galaxy, for instance -- look like shit when compared to average ps3/360 titles.

if the wii were $99, i'd be more forgiving of it.

but at $250, it's an insult.

[Cheebs]

Price drops aren't gonna help either the 360 or PS3 that much in the long run... The American, European, and Japanese populace made up their minds already and they want Wiis. The race for 2nd place will be more interesting, considering the market split on the PS3/360.

i have plenty of friends who're gamers, and not a single one of them have any interest in a wii.

it's FAR too early, with both the 360 and ps3 prohibitively priced, to be declaring the wii victor.

fact of the matter is, MOST of the gamers of last year, those on the xbox and ps2, do _not_ -- nor want to -- own a wii.

but hey, guys, keep the hope alive.

when the games are plentiful, and the pricing is consumer-friendly, the ps3 and 360 -- with their TRUE NEXT-GEN experience (moreso the ps3 than the 360) -- will tag team that glorified gamecube.

lastly, WHY would any of you want that dated piece of shit to win this generation?

the best looking games on the system -- super mario galaxy, for instance -- look like shit when compared to average ps3/360 titles.

if the wii were $99, i'd be more forgiving of it.

but at $250, it's an insult.

stop bringing up "gamers". They do not matter! Compared to the massive mainstream family audience buying up Wii's their importance in the market is minimal this generation.

Gamers are not the deciding factor in who is market leader right now.

[futami]

Price drops aren't gonna help either the 360 or PS3 that much in the long run... The American, European, and Japanese populace made up their minds already and they want Wiis. The race for 2nd place will be more interesting, considering the market split on the PS3/360.

i have plenty of friends who're gamers, and not a single one of them have any interest in a wii.

it's FAR too early, with both the 360 and ps3 prohibitively priced, to be declaring the wii victor.

fact of the matter is, MOST of the gamers of last year, those on the xbox and ps2, do _not_ -- nor want to -- own a wii.

but hey, guys, keep the hope alive.

when the games are plentiful, and the pricing is consumer-friendly, the ps3 and 360 -- with their TRUE NEXT-GEN experience (moreso the ps3 than the 360) -- will tag team that glorified gamecube.

lastly, WHY would any of you want that dated piece of shit to win this generation?

the best looking games on the system -- super mario galaxy, for instance -- look like shit when compared to average ps3/360 titles.

if the wii were $99, i'd be more forgiving of it.

but at $250, it's an insult.

stop bringing up "gamers". They do not matter! Compared to the massive mainstream family audience buying up Wii's their importance in the market is minimal this generation.

Gamers are not the deciding factor in who is market leader right now.

which might explain why 3rd parties are ambivalent on the system.

[Cheebs]

Or likely due to it's unexpected rise. If there aren't a lot of wii games from third parties at e3 we will know. If there is a lot then third parties will have decided they have no other choice but focus on wii.

[demi]

Or likely due to it's unexpected rise. If there aren't a lot of wii games from third parties at e3 we will know. If there is a lot then third parties will have decided they have no other choice but focus on wii.

Careful how you throw the word game out there.

[Cheebs]

Or likely due to it's unexpected rise. If there aren't a lot of wii games from third parties at e3 we will know. If there is a lot then third parties will have decided they have no other choice but focus on wii.

Careful how you throw the word game out there.

ok NON-GAME too.

[tiesto]

Gamers are not the deciding factor in who is market leader right now.

Nor were they ever... The hardcore gamer never mattered, if they did, Katamari, Rez, Okami, would all be huge sellers.

[demi]

Gamers are not the deciding factor in who is market leader right now.

Nor were they ever... The hardcore gamer never mattered, if they did, Katamari, Rez, Okami, would all be huge sellers.

Those dont say hardcore, they say "niche" or "fruity"

[Cheebs]

Gamers are not the deciding factor in who is market leader right now.

Nor were they ever... The hardcore gamer never mattered, if they did, Katamari, Rez, Okami, would all be huge sellers.

PS2 was not number one because of gamers either. It was number one because of familys buying on the cheap and could get madden and other casual games.  Square-Enix, MGS, sony first party stuff (god of war...etc) had 0 impact on PS2's market placement.

A fault of many is thinking gamers have any impact on this market whatsoever. 40 year old mothers buying systems for their kids are the most powerful people determining who wins and loses.

[Beezy]

Square-Enix, MGS, sony first party stuff (god of war...etc) had 0 impact on PS2's market placement.

GTA did though.

[bud]

so you guys are saying that gt3 had no impact whatsoever 

[Cheebs]

Square-Enix, MGS, sony first party stuff (god of war...etc) had 0 impact on PS2's market placement.

GTA did though.

and that was a game aimed and loved by the casual market of those who only buy like 1-2 games a year.

[ananus]

why don't you people just argue about sales numbers on gaf anyway.

[bud]

why don't you people just argue about sales numbers on gaf anyway.

gt3 sold over 13 mln copies

[Cheebs]

why don't you people just argue about sales numbers on gaf anyway.

gt3 sold over 13 mln copies

gt3 had little impact on PS2's success. It was a side effect of it that came at the right time in the right place.

When GT 3 came out there was basically at that point no mainstream great software on the system at all, yet unlike PS3 the system was selling absolutely amazing regardless of that (thanks in part to it's only rival being a slowly dying dreamcast).

So when GT3 came out there was millions upon millions of systems out there in homes and still selling but without any compelling software for these console owners. GT3 hit and gave all of these millions of owners something to buy.

GT3 didn't make PS2 succeed, GT3 did well because of PS2's success without any software. PS2 was selling  absolutely fantastic before GT3 hit, PS2 hit the ground running thanks to a lack of strong competition that gave it a year headstart to secure the market and thus secure the third parties.

[futami]

do you realize how many fans there are of the series?

gt5 will have the same impact.

you're on CRACK if you think people, looking at the price of the ps3, will balk at picking up the next-gen installment of gran turismo.

the majority of its sales came from japan and europe, the two areas where the ps3 is outperforming the 360 (at least, in pushing units).

[bud]

do you realize how many fans there are of the series?

gt5 will have the same impact.

you're on CRACK if you think people, looking at the price of the ps3, will balk at picking up the next-gen installment of gran turismo.

the majority of its sales came from japan and europe, the two areas where the ps3 is outperforming the 360 (at least, in pushing units).

at $600 (almost) every game will bomb

[AdmiralViscen]

GT3 is definitely among the games that pushed PS2 to stardom.

[Cheebs]

do you realize how many fans there are of the series?

gt5 will have the same impact.

you're on CRACK if you think people, looking at the price of the ps3, will balk at picking up the next-gen installment of gran turismo.

the majority of its sales came from japan and europe, the two areas where the ps3 is outperforming the 360 (at least, in pushing units).

well PS3 is doing slightly worse in japan than usa but its hard to really call one "less worse" when in both regions it is faaaar under-performing compared to say gamecube last gen.

[Trent Dole]

why don't you people just argue about sales numbers on gaf anyway.

gt3 sold over 13 mln copies

gt3 had little impact on PS2's success. It was a side effect of it that came at the right time in the right place.

When GT 3 came out there was basically at that point no mainstream great software on the system at all, yet unlike PS3 the system was selling absolutely amazing regardless of that (thanks in part to it's only rival being a slowly dying dreamcast).

So when GT3 came out there was millions upon millions of systems out there in homes and still selling but without any compelling software for these console owners. GT3 hit and gave all of these millions of owners something to buy.

GT3 didn't make PS2 succeed, GT3 did well because of PS2's success without any software. PS2 was selling  absolutely fantastic before GT3 hit, PS2 hit the ground running thanks to a lack of strong competition that gave it a year headstart to secure the market and thus secure the third parties.

I dunno about that. I remember going through a good amount of PS2s with GT3 packed-in back when it was released at the old shitty retail job...

[futami]

the majority of its sales came from japan and europe, the two areas where the ps3 is outperforming the 360 (at least, in pushing units).

erm... since when was the ps3 outperforming the 360 in europe?
isn`t the X360 ahead in installed user base?

i`m aware that X360 has hit a brick wall in europe and the ps3 is basically in a coma.

In Japan, the Ps3 is obviously outperforming the X360 but get this.

PS3 has been out now for 7 months in Japan...

... and it still hasn`t broken 1 million units sold.

that`s got to be a kick in the nuts for Sony.

ps3 is outselling the 360 in europe, in terms of units moved per month.

i never said its cumulative sales have eclipsed the 360's.

[Cheebs]

the majority of its sales came from japan and europe, the two areas where the ps3 is outperforming the 360 (at least, in pushing units).

erm... since when was the ps3 outperforming the 360 in europe?
isn`t the X360 ahead in installed user base?

i`m aware that X360 has hit a brick wall in europe and the ps3 is basically in a coma.

In Japan, the Ps3 is obviously outperforming the X360 but get this.

PS3 has been out now for 7 months in Japan...

... and it still hasn`t broken 1 million units sold.

that`s got to be a kick in the nuts for Sony.

ps3 is outselling the 360 in europe, in terms of units moved per month.

i never said its cumulative sales have eclipsed the 360's.

Yet you realize in the end it doesn't matter since Wii is outselling both in all 3 regions but absurdly high margins. Both of "our" systems lost and we are fighting over second place like xbox and gamecube did.

[futami]

the majority of its sales came from japan and europe, the two areas where the ps3 is outperforming the 360 (at least, in pushing units).

erm... since when was the ps3 outperforming the 360 in europe?
isn`t the X360 ahead in installed user base?

i`m aware that X360 has hit a brick wall in europe and the ps3 is basically in a coma.

In Japan, the Ps3 is obviously outperforming the X360 but get this.

PS3 has been out now for 7 months in Japan...

... and it still hasn`t broken 1 million units sold.

that`s got to be a kick in the nuts for Sony.

ps3 is outselling the 360 in europe, in terms of units moved per month.

i never said its cumulative sales have eclipsed the 360's.

Yet you realize in the end it doesn't matter since Wii is outselling both in all 3 regions but absurdly high margins. Both of "our" systems lost and we are fighting over second place like xbox and gamecube did.

3rd parties aren't big on the wii, and they will remain focused on delivering next-gen experiences on the 360 and ps3 .

so it really doesn't matter HOW successful the wii is.

developers want to exploit the technology housed in the next-gen systems, and i don't see them abandoning that desire just to take advantage of the wii's userbase.

if they do, it's terrible for the gaming industry.

and gamers.

[MrAngryFace]

If Wii wins, gaming loses.

[futami]

If Wii wins, gaming loses.

basically.

it's one of the biggest jokes i've ever witnessed in gaming.

i just can't understand how _any_ true gamer could want this system to succeed.

[tiesto]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

[futami]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

yes, because gameplay isn't affected just as much as graphics, seeing a proportional rise, when moving into the next-gen.

 

[bud]

ot: dc, how are the hot shots golf games for the ps2? i'm thinking of picking one up in the next couple of weeks orso. which one is the best?

[Fragamemnon]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

The rallying cry of the wii apologists. The funny thing is that for gaming enthusiasts, the gameplay of most of the software is  even more of a turnoff than the graphics are.

[futami]

dc, how are the hot shots golf games for the ps2?

i don`t know what the equivalent game is to it in the Hotshots series - but Mingol (Minna no Golf online) was absolutely fantastic - especially with the online set up. MG5 should be fantastic as it sounds like they are bring the online component back in.

Anyways, any of the PS2 version will do the trick.

you don't think hsg5 is going to bolster the ps3's presence in japan?

i think the impact, especially with the bundle, is going to be tremendous.

it just has to be.

japs can't be that cheap or stupid.

[Cheebs]

dc, how are the hot shots golf games for the ps2?

i don`t know what the equivalent game is to it in the Hotshots series - but Mingol (Minna no Golf online) was absolutely fantastic - especially with the online set up. MG5 should be fantastic as it sounds like they are bring the online component back in.

Anyways, any of the PS2 version will do the trick.

you don't think hsg5 is going to bolster the ps3's presence in japan?

i think the impact, especially with the bundle, is going to be tremendous.

it just has to be.

japs can't be that cheap or stupid.

it will have no impact in the long term. A small boost that week but thats it.

Japan is(as is america it seems) OBSESSED with wii sports, wii play, brain training,...etc you think hot shots will change that? Not a chance.

Each gen has it's own trend. Last gen was gta and the endless gta knock off's. The SNES/GEN generation was the endless character based platformers.

This gen is the "simple party game" trend.

I mean look at this weeks japanese sales. It's over guys in Japan, absolutely over. The only battle that isn't over is the battle for second place in Europe and America.

DS 118,684
Wii 65,521
PSP 33,359
PS2 11,974
PS3 9,481
Xbox360 7,583
GBA 867
GC 223

[Mr. Gundam]

The PS3 is getting it's ass kicked in Japan, I'll give you that. But, you know that 360 sales will drop back down to their normal levels next week after the Trusty Bell lovin' dies down.

[Cheebs]

The PS3 is getting it's ass kicked in Japan, I'll give you that. But, you know that 360 sales will drop back down to their normal levels next week after the Trusty Bell lovin' dies down.

obviously, but both are doing horrible numbers. The fact PS3 is far below gamecube's levels in Japan with Japan being the worst region for gcn sales last gen is something amazing. It seems soon we will see a lot of japanese third party drop off much like what happened on PSP. PS3 will probably be a more western dominated platform software wise.

[futami]

god, i hate nintendo.

and i loved the nes/snes.

but i never knew they were this hard up to win, this determined to fuck the rest of us.

[Mr. Gundam]

god, i hate nintendo.

and i loved the nes/snes.

but i never knew they were this hard up to win, this determined to fuck the rest of us.

You can love waggle all you want, but if and when the majority of titles that don't need it end up on the Wii, I'll be pissed.

[futami]

it's the gaming ghetto.

that's what the wii is.

given the profits sony are making, i don't know why they don't just abandon ship.

it's a lost cause, apparently, because nintendo has gone the 'tard route.

there's no reasoning with 'tards.

[bluemax]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

The rallying cry of the wii apologists. The funny thing is that for gaming enthusiasts, the gameplay of most of the software is  even more of a turnoff than the graphics are.

Bingo. I grabbed a Wii because of launch hype and Zelda. All things considered I should have just grabbed Zelda for cube and saved $250 dollars.

[Beezy]

dc, how are the hot shots golf games for the ps2?

i don`t know what the equivalent game is to it in the Hotshots series - but Mingol (Minna no Golf online) was absolutely fantastic - especially with the online set up. MG5 should be fantastic as it sounds like they are bring the online component back in.

Anyways, any of the PS2 version will do the trick.

you don't think hsg5 is going to bolster the ps3's presence in japan?

i think the impact, especially with the bundle, is going to be tremendous.

it just has to be.

japs can't be that cheap or stupid.

Sony fans said the same thing over and over every time a new game came out for the PSP. The PS3 is selling even less than it was. One game isn't gonna change much.

[tiesto]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

yes, because gameplay isn't affected just as much as graphics, seeing a proportional rise, when moving into the next-gen.

 

Well, as of now, nearly every single 360 game's gameplay can be done on a PS2, obviously not in HD and with shittier graphics.

I'll admit I am excited that the Wii is succeeding because its making graphics whores want to slit their wrists

[Himu]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

The rallying cry of the wii apologists. The funny thing is that for gaming enthusiasts, the gameplay of most of the software is  even more of a turnoff than the graphics are.

The gameplay and controls are awful.

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

The rallying cry of the wii apologists. The funny thing is that for gaming enthusiasts, the gameplay of most of the software is  even more of a turnoff than the graphics are.

Bingo. I grabbed a Wii because of launch hype and Zelda. All things considered I should have just grabbed Zelda for cube and saved $250 dollars.

Pretty much.

[futami]

"True" gamers don't care about graphics, its all about gameplay.

yes, because gameplay isn't affected just as much as graphics, seeing a proportional rise, when moving into the next-gen.

 

Well, as of now, nearly every single 360 game's gameplay can be done on a PS2, obviously not in HD and with shittier graphics.

I'll admit I am excited that the Wii is succeeding because its making graphics whores want to slit their wrists

wow, way to qualify things.



well, sure, all of the 360's games can be done on the ps1, only with horrendously worse graphics and a framerate in the single digits.

forza 2, despite its shit visuals, wouldn't be possible the ps2 or xbox.

neither would motorstorm.

none of these physics intensive games would.

[Himu]

Technology DOES allow for more things to be done with gameplay.

[Mr. Gundam]

Technology DOES allow for more things to be done with gameplay.

That's a lie!

LIAR WHORE LIAR LIAR WHORE AND YOU KNOW IT!

[Himu]

I will be first to admit that graphics aren't everything, but you cannot deny the potential for some games as technology gets better. Still, I'm not exactly one who goes crazy over ridiculous graphics myself. I actually shun the thought of photo realistic graphics. I can appreciate them, but in the end, it's just something that gives a game more personality and little else. It's all about the gameplay though, and just because Wii has a so called "less emphasis on graphics, more on 'innovation and gameplay'" doesn't mean that this gameplay will also be my thing, or even remotely good.

As many recent, highly lauded Wii games have shown, like SSX Blur or Sonic and the Secret Rings, Wii games are lacking graphical finesse and good gameplay. I am just not convinced that Wii is the right solution, poop slung at graphic whores' faces or not. It has turned a deep problem into a overly simplified solution.

Why is that Nintendo says traditional controls are too complex now, but it takes someone who's been playing games his whole life 30 minutes to 2 hours to adjust to the controls in SSX Blur? That is uncalled for.

[Fragamemnon]

One thing that I don't get is how so many people see the Wii as a real threat to the kind of games that core videogamers want to play and the availability of those games on modern console and PC hardware. A Nintendo console dominated future is a bleak, if not disastrous, future for third parties, and the third parties know it and the fact that the Wii is getting tablescrap support from those third parties is no coincidence.

With something like the PS3 or 360, third parties can take their marquee titles and beat out all but the most colossal of first party releases. On the Wii, a good third party effort can get demolished at retail by something as dumb and inane as Big Brain Training or Mario Party, because that's what people buy the system for-Nintendo games.