star trek

[D3RANG3D]

 

[Himu]

Ok. Since you and the posters like you have shown you completely lack the ability to discuss, you can have this thread and I will post in the other one even if no one else posts in it.

[D3RANG3D]

Ok. Since you and the posters like you have shown you completely lack the ability to discuss, you can have this thread and I will post in the other one even if no one else posts in it.

"You cold blooded devil!"

McCoy's racism is fine.

Someone falling into delusion and depression after they lose their Starfleet commission and purpose in life? That's pushing things too far!

TNG is flawed as fuck and a product of its era. It's a classic but get real.

Picard is assimilated into the Borg, doesn't have PTSD at all and it's not even mentioned besides the episode where he goes back to the farm and First Contact.

The show has almost no continuity.

That's the whole Borg/PTSD arc that Picard forgot about specifically that he got over it in First Contact about the only thing the TNG movies did right.

Who said they were flawless?

okay pedantic ass

they aren't as good as you remember. happy now? many of the episodes of the vaunted old trek shows suck balls.

TNG is still light years ahead of Nutrek garbage.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Imagine trying to tear down something good so you can put a literal piece of shit on a pedestal. 

[close]

Are you able to articulate an opinion without posting a bunch of youtube videos?

I like Picard and I find it to be very optimistic. Trek usually reflects its era. I think Picard is doing a fine job reflecting the dark/scary times of today. If you don't find it dark or scary that's on you. But I find it to be very optimistic and gets argues that even during the hardest of times we should strive to do what's right. I find it very encouraging that such a broken group of people can find common cause to improve the universe and I'm sorry that it has:

cursing



and smoking in it

Even Discovery, which has its flaws, has some good in it.

It's weird that some of the detractors from Picard argue it's not "real Trek" because there's alcoholics (!!!) in it as they pretend arguments between Synthol and real alcohol have never existed in Trek (O'Brien argues that synthol is nothing compared to a real beer) or that people don't drink actual alcohol regularly (remember Romulan Ale? What about Blood Wine?).

Then there's the argument that there's "too much brokenness" which is apparently impossible in Star Trek the same franchise that had a ensign get PTSD after he lost his leg in a battle, and refused to come out of a holodeck for days at a time because fantasy became better than the real thing. Or the time he was also on board a ship where members of the highest Federation cadet group reduced themselves to cultism as all of the higher ranking officials were murdered in battle.

Star Trek has never featured flawed people

(Image removed from quote.)

It has never had people with problems

(Image removed from quote.)

Remember the time Kirk became a racist towards Klingons because they killed his son? Star Trek can never be negative or showed character flaws. Better judge an entire show because the first season is even over.

Remember during TOS when people judged Spock harshly because of his non human values?

(Image removed from quote.)

A lot of these criticisms are baffling and have persisted in Star Trek before. It's most people that critique Picard in particular have never seen an episode of Star Trek. It's baffling, really.

The difference in these flawed characters is that they were likeable hell I am even able to sympathize with them on some level, the whole drunk thing is done off duty unless I am forgetting something I remember Scotty being drunk on duty because that's how he had a drinking contest against some godlike being and that was a totally done for laughs.

Who said there was never flawed people or personal conflicts or any political commentary the difference between then and now is nuance, orange man bad is not nuance.

The druggie thing though is I understand in a way, Raffi fucked up with her family and at the very least her son doesn't want anything to do with her and now she is depressed it's understandable but it doesn't make her likable.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

And don't get me started on Raffi basically giving Picard the check your privilege spiel, imagine "privilege" in a post scarcity universe. 

[close]

[Momo]

Holy shit are we going to argue about this forever Some of us think nutrek sucks, to those who enjoy it, peace be upon you, but we really dont have to dig into each other's opinions, cause it's just that.

[Stoney Mason]

For what its worth before I sign out of the thread again I also love this level of deep discussion on characters you've known for like episodes when most of the TNG cast was not "likeable" or useless or not relevant to the plot for seasons not only especially in TNG but pretty much any trek show which generally takes seasons for characters to find their footing. If you think picard is crap after these scant number of episodes (which I don't) then that's pretty par for the course as its been the case with EVERY trek show in the early going outside of maybe tos. (Which also had plenty of useless characters who barely did anything on the show.)

I would have loved the shitalking if TOS came out today.

[D3RANG3D]

If by the first few episodes they are not likeable, then I don't give a shit about their plight. The Expanse is is pretty grim the outlook is dire but I give a shit about the characters and their plight if someone said D3RANG3D oh buddy oh pal this is a Star Trek prequel and it was always intended to be a trek show and not it's own thing, my first instinct would be to grumble about how it's not Trek, but I would come to the conclusion that it is a well put together show with it's own story to tell with compelling characters and shut my mouth, NuTrek does neither of these things so not an argument.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

We are at 8/10 episodes of Picard and it still isn't compelling

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I only watched a few episodes of The Expanse btw so it could all go to shit .

[close]

[nachobro]

characters not being likable within the first few episodes means TNG and DS9 are outta luck I guess. The first season of both those shows were pretty dire and didn't do a great job overall with the characters compared to later seasons.

[D3RANG3D]

characters not being likable within the first few episodes means TNG and DS9 are outta luck I guess. The first season of both those shows were pretty dire and didn't do a great job overall with the characters compared to later seasons.

Nah Sisko's wife losing her life and Sisko wanting to at the very least punch out Picard for it in the first episode.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sisko BTFO'ing Q in the first season, Garak x Bashir homoerotic relationship.

[close]

[nachobro]

on the flip side kira was pretty insufferable that entire first season

sisko punking picard was awesome though

[D3RANG3D]

I rewatched the pilot of TNG recently Picard is a total dick to Riker. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I feel sorry for O'brien that episode where his wife is nice too him and he's like that ain't my wife. 

[close]

[MMaRsu]

To be fair I barely post in this thread anymore so its not like I actually care. I just saw the RLM stuff and that got me annoyed since among a certain group the opinions they carry seem to matter quite a lot.(which is quite odd to me)  And it tends to be a lazy form of argumentation to parrot what they say instead of actually having an original opinion. Carry on until the next time I do a drive by.

So you didnt even bother to watch their videos critizing the dumbest shit in these episodes?

So you turn a blind eye to legitimate criticism under the veil of " oh they are just youtubers and have no authority to speak on Trek "

Sorry, but that is just hilarious.

[MMaRsu]

The rise of authoritarian governments and fascism doesn't frighten you?

What a model Trekkie.

The conceit of the show is a commentary on the migrant crisis and peoples response to it. Greeks are growing increasingly intolerant of migrants and have turned to right wing politics in response.

Just the other day.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/europe/greece-turkey-migrants.html

Which is why its garbage.

I can understand countries not wanting to take in more middle aged men from countries where women are treated as subhuman pieces of shit.

What a surprise the greek arent so tolerant of migrants who show no respect for the greek culture, and way of life. Crime on the rise I suppose, just like any other european country who took in wayyyyyyy too many migrants.

So my impressions of Star Trek Picard:

- I really, really love it and look forward to it each week.
- I find it to be the successor to the old Star Trek formula.
- It gives me a lot of encouragement to fight in a cruel universe.
- It carries over the old Trekkian slow, deliberate pacing. So much of it is talking about feelings and stuff such as this scene.

How exactly is it a successor to the 'old formula' ?

What exactly gives you encouragement to fight in a cruel universe? How so?

Yes great, feelings feelings feelings, exactly what Star Trek was always about 

[MMaRsu]

DS9 has Garak..Bashir..Quark.. Odo (who is not likable in the first two seasons all that much, but a very interesting character)

Ofcourse they are flawed characters, I never claimed they were perfect. I dont even know where Cindi got that from.

But yes the main difference is that none of the Picard cast is likeable at all. They are all also very stereotypical characters, showing barely any depth.

Oh yeah and cursing has no place in TNG, or trek for that matter imo. Data's " Oh shit " is fucking stupid.

[Stoney Mason]

To be fair I barely post in this thread anymore so its not like I actually care. I just saw the RLM stuff and that got me annoyed since among a certain group the opinions they carry seem to matter quite a lot.(which is quite odd to me)  And it tends to be a lazy form of argumentation to parrot what they say instead of actually having an original opinion. Carry on until the next time I do a drive by.

So you didnt even bother to watch their videos critizing the dumbest shit in these episodes?

So you turn a blind eye to legitimate criticism under the veil of " oh they are just youtubers and have no authority to speak on Trek "

Sorry, but that is just hilarious.

I haven't see the entire run of Picard yet. So I'm not going to watch videos that cover material I haven't seen yet. I've also seen plenty of RLM videos and I'm familiar with their material enough to know their particular brand of strengths and weaknesses when it comes to material like super hero movies, star trek, and star wars. They made some decent to good videos about the prequels along time ago. Good for them. Not everything was correct in those either. If you think they are the premium brand for criticism when it comes to criticism then that is just hilarious. Fuck off.

I'm fine with you stating and sharing YOUR opinion about Picard. I don't need parroted RLM videos to hear an opinion about Trek or anything else for that matter as if that is the winning argument. 

[MMaRsu]

I don't think they are a 'premium brand' for criticism, but I generally agree with their criticism of Picard.

I can totally understand not watching their videos if you havent seen all the new Picard stuff yet, I gave this a chance because I really grown to love TNG, yes it has its flaws and yes there are characters in that show that are unbearable, like lwaxana troi. But even in those episodes there is some fun to it, as Picard tries his best to dodge her  .

I just think the new show isnt fun, the characters arent fun, they are all so negative and sour. I will continue to watch to see where the story goes, but at this point I have to already force myself to watch them. D3ranged said the new episode is good, I fail to see why. I like the slower approach, but 8 episodes in this is already setting up some grand ' save the galaxy ' type plot that is fucking boring.

I wish Trek could just go back to individual episodes, where each episode has a story that is resolved at the end of the episode.

[Stoney Mason]

I just think the new show isnt fun, the characters arent fun, they are all so negative and sour. I will continue to watch to see where the story goes, but at this point I have to already force myself to watch them.

And I'm 100 percent fine with that. That is valid and fair and I like whenever people express their opinion even when its not my opinion. I just don't like when people use some other source as a sledgehammer to try to "win" an argument with an air of authority. This happens a lot with RLM on the internet which is super tiresome especially since they very clearly have their own set of biases when it comes to stuff. RLM are fine when it comes to bad movies and a lot of fun. They are less good when it comes to being the voice of what is right and wrong in entertainment in general imo.

[Stoney Mason]

I don't think they try to do that at all, they just express their opinions and feelings like anyone else. If people use their videos to "prove" their opinions as the right ones, that's not really on RLM.

As I've said I often don't agree with RLM videos period so there's that.  And secondly there is nothing more tiresome on the internet than someone just dropping a video on opinion based topics to replace the discussion which is doubly worse when the source material is meh to begin with. I don't give a crap what RLM thinks. Tell me what you think.

[D3RANG3D]

I don't think they are a 'premium brand' for criticism, but I generally agree with their criticism of Picard.

I can totally understand not watching their videos if you havent seen all the new Picard stuff yet, I gave this a chance because I really grown to love TNG, yes it has its flaws and yes there are characters in that show that are unbearable, like lwaxana troi. But even in those episodes there is some fun to it, as Picard tries his best to dodge her  .

I just think the new show isnt fun, the characters arent fun, they are all so negative and sour. I will continue to watch to see where the story goes, but at this point I have to already force myself to watch them. D3ranged said the new episode is good, I fail to see why. I like the slower approach, but 8 episodes in this is already setting up some grand ' save the galaxy ' type plot that is fucking boring.

I wish Trek could just go back to individual episodes, where each episode has a story that is resolved at the end of the episode.

Maybe good is the wrong description and more like I didn't feel like my brain rotted for having have watched it like the other episodes.

[Himu]

Point me where I spammed youtube links?

Quote the exact post.

edit:

[Himu]

I might have read a quote chain wrong. But I take no responsibility at all

Since you're a moron, I think you're referring to the post where I posted the Data "oh shit" clip. I posted ONE. CLIP. to supplement my point. The rest of the post is nothing but text and images.

Deranged posted NOTHING. NOTHING. of substance. NOTHING. He just spammed a bunch of youtube links.

Because you're a moron you're going back on ignore taco

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah I'm out. Post RLM links as you please. I rarely participate in this thread and that will serve as reminder to continue that process outside of this posting binge of mine in the last two days.

[Madrun Badrun]

Can't we all just come together and like my trek memes?

[D3RANG3D]

I might have read a quote chain wrong. But I take no responsibility at all

Since you're a moron, I think you're referring to the post where I posted the Data "oh shit" clip. I posted ONE. CLIP. to supplement my point. The rest of the post is nothing but text and images.

Deranged posted NOTHING. NOTHING. of substance. NOTHING. He just spammed a bunch of youtube links.

Because you're a moron you're going back on ignore taco

Incorrect those videos prove my points.

[Himu]

Imagine bitching about how I DON'T LIKE THE CHARACTERS on the first season of a Star Trek show.

Deranged and Mmarsu probably bitched when the captain was black in DS9 and captain was a woman in Voyager.

Outside of TOS, every single first to second season of a Trek show is flawed as fuck. Especially weird how we are talking about Picard, whose predecessor had the great and timeless character Wesley Crusher.

[D3RANG3D]

No fuck no don't put that racism/sexism not an argument bullshit on me fuck right off and KYS.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Did I mention KYS?

[close]

[Himu]

Let's get to brass tacks.

- Does Doc Crusher even have a character even after 7 seasons? Pulanski was better than her. Her only character I remember was that she's a mother and her relationship with Picard.

- Troi, whom I absolutely love, sucks ass almost half the show and has her entire character and utility given to Whoopi fucking Goldberg. Should we go to the federation counselor? Nah, we should just go to the mysterious black bar tender. And by the time Troi falls into her element it's too late and there's like two seasons left.

- Guinan. What the fuck is her point? Oh, she's mysterious. So the fuck what? Does she even HAVE a character besides the mysteriousness? Where does she come? What is she? All she provides is vague nothings. She's CRAP.

- La Forge is BALLS. He's always in the engineering deck. He's not interesting at all. He's basically a nerd and his best friend is an android.

- Tasha Yar. Need I say more? Oh wait, I do. Remember when TNG got popular so her actress decided to come back once a season? Yeah.

- WESLEY. CRUSHER.

Of TNG, only Data, Riker, Picard, and Worf are good characters. Characters like Ro, O'Brien, Nurse Ogawa are interesting and are barely explored.

It's weird how such a pedestal people put on TNG. It's a great show. It's a goddamn classic, and some days it might even be my favorite Star Trek. But god fucking damn stop riding it and the rest of the franchises nuts. They've always been flawed, the new characters in Picard have more development some like Dr. Crusher ever had. We don't know what direction they'll take the series in season 2 so this is all moot.

You guys didn't even want to give Picard a chance. It's just endless bitching, even about the most banal of things likes smoking and cursing (who cares).

[benjipwns]

Vom, did you get to the third season of Enterprise or take a break?

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I personally think what's "trek" is it's fairly unique optimism about the future and the values that people adhere to in order to make that a bright future.

And as much as I like DS9, it veers into "not trek" as a result of rejecting that premise, which in itself I can't help but feel was a reaction to what Babylon 5 was doing.
DS9 being "trek" is that episode where Sisko refuses to take his uniform off because crazy luddite bitch is trying to break him and he refuses to give up on the principles of what the starfleet uniform represents.
DS9 being "not trek" is a fabricating casus belli to get the romulans to join the war against the dominion.

They're both good episodes. But one is "trek" in a way that the other demonstrably is not.


You might personally feel darkier edgier grimdark scifi is more interesting, or a more interesting way of exploring contemporary analogues, but its also pretty much dime a dozen scifi without that spark of hope and optimisim which - again - star trek is fairly unique in portraying.

[MMaRsu]

Imagine bitching about how I DON'T LIKE THE CHARACTERS on the first season of a Star Trek show.

Deranged and Mmarsu probably bitched when the captain was black in DS9 and captain was a woman in Voyager.

Outside of TOS, every single first to second season of a Trek show is flawed as fuck. Especially weird how we are talking about Picard, whose predecessor had the great and timeless character Wesley Crusher.

Reading this, really makes me believe you havent read anything me or d3ranged wrote in here. In fact, it seems this entire 'discussion' is pointless. Feel free to like Picard, we won't shit on you for it. But at least have the decency to read the posts made in the discussion you are partaking in.

Also you spouting an entire post about character development, when that is not something that was focussed on with TNG at all. Yes some of them were very static in their personality throughout the entire show, and did not have any meaningful growth. But that is a show that focussed on an event, something happening in the episode that one or more characters have to solve in order to work through the issue at hand.

And although that's not very different from Picard in a sense that Picard is more reliant on it's plot than it's characters, it still presents zero new, interesting and believable characters. Their motivations make no sense most of the time. They are also all very sour and negative. There is barely any fun. Also making Seven of Nine a generic bounty hunter was really the best they could do?

But whatever, it seems pointless to discuss this with you, because you don't even know what the discussion is about. It's not about flawed characters, thats for sure. It's not about character development.

It's weird how such a pedestal people put on TNG. It's a great show. It's a goddamn classic, and some days it might even be my favorite Star Trek. But god fucking damn stop riding it and the rest of the franchises nuts. They've always been flawed, the new characters in Picard have more development some like Dr. Crusher ever had. We don't know what direction they'll take the series in season 2 so this is all moot.

You guys didn't even want to give Picard a chance. It's just endless bitching, even about the most banal of things likes smoking and cursing (who cares).

This proves my point. It is you that is coming in here with preconceived notions.

If you wanna discuss the show, discuss the show. The rest of this shit is just pathetic. Noone is saying TNG is perfect.

You're a looney

[benjipwns]

DS9 is "not Trek" in that it can't escape consequences, all the rest get to warp away from them. Kirk on TOS breaks far more rules than everyone but Janeway. TOS leaves many planets in a no hope situation or without survivors.

[Coffee Dog]

Picard is barely a season of star trek, anyway. If this had a lower budget and 22 episodes, sure, they might have some good episodes for the crew lying in the wings. But they didn't format it like a star trek show.

Because it isn't a star trek show.

[Himu]

I personally think what's "trek" is it's fairly unique optimism about the future and the values that people adhere to in order to make that a bright future.

And as much as I like DS9, it veers into "not trek" as a result of rejecting that premise, which in itself I can't help but feel was a reaction to what Babylon 5 was doing.
DS9 being "trek" is that episode where Sisko refuses to take his uniform off because crazy luddite bitch is trying to break him and he refuses to give up on the principles of what the starfleet uniform represents.
DS9 being "not trek" is a fabricating casus belli to get the romulans to join the war against the dominion.

They're both good episodes. But one is "trek" in a way that the other demonstrably is not.


You might personally feel darkier edgier grimdark scifi is more interesting, or a more interesting way of exploring contemporary analogues, but its also pretty much dime a dozen scifi without that spark of hope and optimisim which - again - star trek is fairly unique in portraying.

Except that I've felt hopeful and optimistic from Picard precisely because it uses the dark setting and finds a way to dig into it.

It's also ridiculous to say only one of those episodes is Trek.

I really don't understand this. You're using DS9 as an example of Trek when DS9 is the darkest Trek there is. Garak loses his entire planet to what is practically genocide. There's an entire arc around a hostile takeover by a foreign authority in the Gamma Quadrant. The Dominion War is dark as fuck and yet it's also hopeful because so every single race in the franchise in Alpha Quadrant joins together to fight a singular evil. During DS9, Klingons, humans;etc are at war with each other because of saboteur changelings and yet it ends with the banding of every single race.

The difference is that Picard's structure doesn't allow for stories to end at the end of the episode. They're not stand alone and they blend into each other. But it completely shocks me that someone can't find the hope and optimism in Picard but can in DS9.

I truly find no difference between their methodologies.

If Picard isn't Trek neither is DS9.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

DS9 is "not Trek" in that it can't escape consequences, all the rest get to warp away from them. Kirk on TOS breaks far more rules than everyone but Janeway. TOS leaves many planets in a no hope situation or without survivors.

which is fair comment, that maybe that optimism has an underlying foundation of naivete or not following up on things and dealing with the repercussions (which is pretty much the premise of Wrath of Khan), but its still a fairly unique tone in sci fi and fairly identifiable.

If Picard isn't Trek neither is DS9.

Which was mostly my point - that DS9 is 'not trek' for a sizable portion, but it occasionally tries to be in a way that nu-trek just cannot be fucked to.

Having a unique voice is not an indicator of quality. Picard might as well be called Commander Shephard for all the unique tone it has in the eps I've seen so far, but I'm holding off to watch them in one go as a series as seemingly intended. It doesn't seem like they want to be particularly episodic.

[Himu]

Imagine bitching about how I DON'T LIKE THE CHARACTERS on the first season of a Star Trek show.

Deranged and Mmarsu probably bitched when the captain was black in DS9 and captain was a woman in Voyager.

Outside of TOS, every single first to second season of a Trek show is flawed as fuck. Especially weird how we are talking about Picard, whose predecessor had the great and timeless character Wesley Crusher.

Reading this, really makes me believe you havent read anything me or d3ranged wrote in here. In fact, it seems this entire 'discussion' is pointless. Feel free to like Picard, we won't shit on you for it. But at least have the decency to read the posts made in the discussion you are partaking in.

Also you spouting an entire post about character development, when that is not something that was focussed on with TNG at all. Yes some of them were very static in their personality throughout the entire show, and did not have any meaningful growth. But that is a show that focussed on an event, something happening in the episode that one or more characters have to solve in order to work through the issue at hand.

And although that's not very different from Picard in a sense that Picard is more reliant on it's plot than it's characters, it still presents zero new, interesting and believable characters. Their motivations make no sense most of the time. They are also all very sour and negative. There is barely any fun. Also making Seven of Nine a generic bounty hunter was really the best they could do?

But whatever, it seems pointless to discuss this with you, because you don't even know what the discussion is about. It's not about flawed characters, thats for sure. It's not about character development.

It's weird how such a pedestal people put on TNG. It's a great show. It's a goddamn classic, and some days it might even be my favorite Star Trek. But god fucking damn stop riding it and the rest of the franchises nuts. They've always been flawed, the new characters in Picard have more development some like Dr. Crusher ever had. We don't know what direction they'll take the series in season 2 so this is all moot.

You guys didn't even want to give Picard a chance. It's just endless bitching, even about the most banal of things likes smoking and cursing (who cares).

This proves my point. It is you that is coming in here with preconceived notions.

If you wanna discuss the show, discuss the show. The rest of this shit is just pathetic. Noone is saying TNG is perfect.

You're a looney

The point is your argument is "I don't find the characters fun.";etc. The majority of your criticisms has been against the characters. But that means that previous Star Trek shows must have better characters - they don't! The point is, by endlessly shitting on Picard, you are by extension defending TOS, TNG, VOY;etc. Especially TNG because it's Picard's predecessor and the show that Picard is based on. To criticize Picard - which hasn't even had a full season for its characters - without turning some of it to TNG is hypocritical. TNG has always had flawed characterization. But somehow it gets off scott free.

But at least have the decency to read the posts made in the discussion you are partaking in.

What posts?

Posts like this?

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-tng-ds9-morality-idealism-better-explained

Picard Is About The Good In Flawed People In An Imperfect World

The Perfect Is The Enemy Of The Good

As per the article.

They've truly taken what was great about DS9 and are just exploring more of it

No.

What riveting discussion.

Oh, now you want to discuss.

Fuck off, trash. Most of your posts in this thread have been low effort to begin with and now you're bitching about me not taking the time to read your crappy posts?

[Coffee Dog]

I truly find no difference between their methodologies.

Don't know how you can look at how DS9 portrays something like section 31, things like xenophobia, and you look at MAGA Starfleet from Picard, and see no difference.

Just because DS9 was dark doesn't mean it's bad for Star Trek. It means clumsily handling those themes is nad for star trek.

[Himu]

I truly find no difference between their methodologies.

Don't know how you can look at how DS9 portrays something like section 31, things like xenophobia, and you look at MAGA Starfleet from Picard, and see no difference.

Just because DS9 was dark doesn't mean it's bad for Star Trek. It means clumsily handling those themes is nad for star trek.

Oh no, Starfleet is more xenophobic after a catastrophic war with the Dominion? The same people that used Changelings to turn into actual Starfleet major officers - including an Admiral?

Michael Chabon has said that the Dominion War is a big reason why Starfleet is like this but that would require too much explaining to those who are new and not caught up. But it's certainly hinted.

"Bad for Trek?" In DS9 Starfleet uses Section 31 to infect the Changelings with a virus to kill them all. But somehow it means Starfleet would never resort to xenophobia? The same starfleet where its citizens rebelled because Federation gave its planets to Cardassians? The same Starfleet where it has racists that call Cardassians "spoonheads"? That Starfleet?

I forgot that the Federation is so prim and proper and absolutely perfect.

[Himu]

Remember the time Picard gets orders from up high to escort Native Americans that emigrated to space from their new home because their planet sits on Cardassian territory after a new treaty? So he goes to the planet to tell them to leave their new homeland and will even do so be force? Then Wesley Crusher quits Starfleet because he thought they were better than this?

It feels like people who say "Federation would never act like this" have excised any negative portrayal of Starfleet from their brains. It's fucking baffling that a bunch of know it all nerds who can remember the specs of the Enterprise D doesn't remember important details like this shit. God fucking damn.

[benjipwns]

The main issue I have with the shady Federation storylines is that Kurtzman is a boring hack, at least Orci's crazy.

[Himu]

The main issue I have with the shady Federation storylines is that Kurtzman is a boring hack

I agree.

I can understand if you find the storyline boring. What I don't understand is saying the Federation could never become that.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Remember the time Picard gets orders from up high to escort Native Americans that emigrated to space from their new home because their planet sits on Cardassian territory after a new treaty? So he goes to the planet to tell them to leave their new homeland and will even do so be force? Then Wesley Crusher quits Starfleet because he thought they were better than this?

It feels like people who say "Federation would never act like this" have excised any negative portrayal of Starfleet from their brains. It's fucking baffling that a bunch of know it all nerds who can remember the specs of the Enterprise D doesn't remember important details like this shit. God fucking damn.

The whole marquis stuff is about how real world border disputes usually end up when peace treaties are drawn up; some people have to be relocated as a result and don't like it, but its big picture needs of the many realpolitik stuff.

Picards federation basically just said an entire fucking species in dire emergency because their sun went supernova can go fuck themselves... because some completely unrelated robots blew up a factory on mars.

[D3RANG3D]

Spoiler

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Its not unrelated the Zhat Vosh or whatever they are called threw their own people under the bus, they were behind the android uprising and synth ban and the shift in politics of the Federaton all to stop some doomsday prophecy.

[close]

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I have no doubt the only two pieces of world building that the writers bothered to do turn out to be directly connected and the reason why is the big narrative pay off.

[MMaRsu]

My major point is that even though the story is stupid, it could be interesting if the characters were fun to watch, or interesting to learn about.

The story that Rios told about his captain meeting two synths was cool, I wish they would have filmed that, and put that as a prologue that you see before the first episode. The entire structure of the story is wack, the pacing is wack and there is so much wasted time that could be spent building these characters.

Then at least it would be more interesting, to me.

[Coffee Dog]

Remember the time Picard gets orders from up high to escort Native Americans that emigrated to space from their new home because their planet sits on Cardassian territory after a new treaty? So he goes to the planet to tell them to leave their new homeland and will even do so be force? Then Wesley Crusher quits Starfleet because he thought they were better than this?

It feels like people who say "Federation would never act like this" have excised any negative portrayal of Starfleet from their brains. It's fucking baffling that a bunch of know it all nerds who can remember the specs of the Enterprise D doesn't remember important details like this shit. God fucking damn.

Case in point, imagine how much dumber this plot would be if this happened not because of a land dispute but because Starfleet hated Native Americans.  That's why comparing it to Picard this way doesn't hold up.

[Momo]

https://twitter.com/timruss2/status/1237852688202829824

[D3RANG3D]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[VomKriege]

Vom, did you get to the third season of Enterprise or take a break?

Took a break amidst the cogenitor species episode for some reason.

[Momo]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[D3RANG3D]

https://variety.com/2015/tv/news/jennifer-lien-arrested-star-trek-voyager-1201594328/

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Momo]

I can't live with this knowledge. I hope corona takes me

[Madrun Badrun]

[D3RANG3D]

[MMaRsu]

Oh my god

Just saw the latest episode

this show has gone off the fucking rails now

[D3RANG3D]

Was it ever on the rails? 

[MMaRsu]

"Where we're going, we don't need rails"

[D3RANG3D]

Spoiler

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Soong has a made up son now. 

[close]

[Momo]

Yeah that last ep was mind numbing, should have known I would be in for a shitshow when they hand waved the romulan penny dreadful dude following them as him predicting their destination based on course and speed. a) bitch this is space there are infinite points on a straight line b) last ep you made a 30 minute song and dance about Rios jumping and changing course after every jump or some nonsense, please fuck right off Kurtzman or whichever cunt wrote this ep

[MMaRsu]

Yeah ridiculous that noonien soong now has a son who created a city of data like synths including golden skin and data eyes.

As soon as they learn of the reapers who will come and destroy organics they are down for it
😂

[D3RANG3D]

I never really played any of the Mass Effect games so I never picked up on it, but LOL ripping off ME3.

[Tasty]

This Picard shit sounds terrible.