International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster

[toku]

were really about to see early 20th century level of fuckery in our lifetimes huh

[Rufus]

Nah.

[FStop7]

How does the EU have anything to do with this

It doesn't matter.  Like I said, it's going to be propagandized by anti-EU groups and used to paint the EU in a bad light regardless of the facts.  That's just the world we live in.

That aside, after seeing what the cops did to voters in Catalonia, I'm starting to think that the Catalans have a point about seceding.

[jorma]

How does the EU have anything to do with this

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect EU to ask her member states to behave themselves. It's supposed to be a union to promote peace and prosperity in Europe, yet every time shit goes down they go sit on their hands.
Unless the shit that goes down is about money being owned of course. 

I understand the critique, and i'm an ardent fan of this union of ours.

Hopefully it's all perception based on earlier behavior and EU leaders are putting mad pressure on Spain to solve this without bloodshed behind closed doors.

[Raist]

How does the EU have anything to do with this

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect EU to ask her member states to behave themselves. It's supposed to be a union to promote peace and prosperity in Europe, yet every time shit goes down they go sit on their hands.
Unless the shit that goes down is about money being owned of course. 

I understand the critique, and i'm an ardent fan of this union of ours.

Hopefully it's all perception based on earlier behavior and EU leaders are putting mad pressure on Spain to solve this without bloodshed behind closed doors.

The problem is that when the EU "speaks" it's as a bloc, on behalf of all members countries. Since Spain is a member country, I'm not surprised that they didn't say anything. They're basically not neutral, by definition. It's not that they would necessarily defend Spain, but if they criticize what happened, then by association, so does Spain. If they take the side of Spain, then people will think "well of course they do".
IIRC the EU didn't comment either on Westminster refusing to give Scotland another referendum. These are purely and specifically national issues, and it's not the role of the EU to intervene.

I get the criticism targeted at heads of states by themselves not necessarily commenting (although again, it's not that easy), but I don't think the EU itself had any other choice than "no comment".

[VomKriege]

Wow the commentary on the Catalan crisis on French radio is bad. Some commenters saying Rajoy "won" less than 1 hour after the Catalan Region President made a (middling) statement. Commentary from Unionists and, more surprisingly, French politicians are super dismissive. I get that France is not super thrilled at the prospect of regionalism but come on... Separatism is now a decades old issue in some parts of Europe (Flemish since the 1980 at least) and just looking at it as some sort of petulant outburst best left ignored seems like a major mistake. At one point one, Scotland, Catalonia or another, will make a clear, majority backed declaration.

[VomKriege]

Stupid drama of the week in France : Mélenchon decided to retreat from a position in a commission about the self determination referendum of New Caledonia (Island east of Australia) because it is presided by former Prime Minister Manuel Valls (formerly Socialist, now identified as an independent close to Macron's party). Mélenchon says it's because Valls has made "ethnicist" statements in the past and the two exhanged scathing tweets and shit. According to the Canard Enchainé, the heated exchanges were even less cordial on the benches of the Assembly. Mélenchon is reported to have said "I won't seat besides this Nazi. You're trash, a loser, a piece of shit !". Valls would have replied "You're completely insane ! Calm down !" and a third MP intervened by saying Mélenchon should stop his circus and that he was an asshole. 

By the way : New Caledonians are not super thrilled at being used as a prop to some ego-spat in Paris

Oh yeah also : 200k or more public servants marched yesterday at the call of all their unions (an unitary call not achieved in close to a decade) to protest wages being frozen next year, the reintroduction of a measure to have the first day of a sick leave not being classified as such, increased taxation and general shortage of means.

Truck drivers were also on the war path last week ago but stepped down when the government basically caved in to their demands (the labor reform was gonna impact legal paths to some of their current bonuses).

[Raist]

Mélenchon is reported to have said "I won't seat besides this Nazi. You're trash, a loser, a piece of shit !"

So what's Mélenchon's GAF account?

[shosta]

I just read about what France did regarding models and magazine covers and I think that's amazing. I wonder if such laws are constitutional at the state level in the US.

[VomKriege]

I just read about what France did regarding models and magazine covers and I think that's amazing. I wonder if such laws are constitutional at the state level in the US.

To clarify : a 2016 law received its decrees (the executive signature to enact them) and models will have to present medical certificates and airbrushed magazine covers must now have a mention they are in fact modified pictures.

LVMH and Kering, the two rival giants in luxury (each owned by a separate French billionaire) have also agreed to a charter more restrictive than the law and which include stopping making fashion clothes in absurdly small sizes (a norm on fashion shows) and limiting the use of models younger than 16. Considering they own a ton of the most prominent fashion houses, it's a fairly big deal.

[shosta]

WOOOOOOOOOOOO Iraqi troops descending on Kirkuk to take their oil back from the Kurds, here we go boys B)

[Raist]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/

Global banks and international bond strategists have been left stunned by revised ONS figures showing that Britain is £490bn poorer than had been ­assumed and no longer has any reserve of net foreign assets, depriving the country of its safety margin as Brexit talks reach a crucial juncture.

[Raist]

May reaching stage 3, it seems.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/16/thereas-may-to-appeal-to-emmanuel-macron-over-brexit-transition-period

[Brehvolution]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/

Global banks and international bond strategists have been left stunned by revised ONS figures showing that Britain is £490bn poorer than had been ­assumed and no longer has any reserve of net foreign assets, depriving the country of its safety margin as Brexit talks reach a crucial juncture.

(Image removed from quote.)

Lying liers lying.

[Mandark]

WOOOOOOOOOOOO Iraqi troops descending on Kirkuk to take their oil back from the Kurds, here we go boys B)

https://twitter.com/BrowneGareth/status/919924078269562880

oh dear

[VomKriege]

Posting just to acknowledge the terrible attack in Somalia.

[the freakin woz]

WOOOOOOOOOOOO Iraqi troops descending on Kirkuk to take their oil back from the Kurds, here we go boys B)

https://twitter.com/BrowneGareth/status/919924078269562880

oh dear

puk despise the barzanis little fiefdom, not surprising

[VomKriege]

To continue on the Catalan crisis coverage in France, I was a bit disturbed to see levied -both in Charlie Hebdo and on a liberal centrist radio show to give you an idea of how "self evident" the idea seems to be all over the spectrum- the argument that independence claims were null and void because Catalans are not oppressed enough to qualify, which sounds even more weird in the mouths of people you'd expect in other cases to argue that victimhood isn't a competition. They do follow up with some observations that I don't disagree with in essence (that in some aspects the Catalan autonomist movement may be of convenience, selfishness in sharing riches and one sometimes marred by a sense of superiority) but it sounds really weird to me that some claims of self determination are discarded because somehow in the eyes of outside observers it doesn't reach a threshold of suffering or something ? I mean when a large part of a quantifiable entity don't feel they want to adhere any longer to a constitution or a larger collective, you can't just pout to make it go away.

I think I prefer the purely pragmatic and cold argument that fucking up the statu quo would be a nightmare for Catalonia, Spain and the EU possibly plunging everyone down a crisis no one can afford, regardless of how sympathetic you are to autonomist claims. At least this one isn't hypocritical.

I guess I would be a tad defensive and irrational too if we were speaking of a French region, so I don't fault Spanish commenters for using those lines of arguments (though the deafness of Madrid certainly seems to be an issue) but I'm non plussed by French ones towing those. I mean no one seems willing to even debate the idea that maybe smaller democratic units might be a solution to current perceived problems with the Western model which would be an interesting hypothetical to ponder about.

[VomKriege]

A Malta journalist, known for participating in the Panama Papers, was murdered by a bomb hidden in her car

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist

[Raist]

A Malta journalist, known for participating in the Panama Papers, was murdered by a bomb hidden in her car

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article72215012.html

Hillary Clinton recently blasted the hidden financial dealings exposed in the Panama Papers, but she and her husband have multiple connections with people who have used the besieged law firm Mossack Fonseca to establish offshore entities.

[benjipwns]

The Greens were wiped out of the Austrian legislature for the first time since 1983, they actually somehow did worse than they did that year. Lost all 24* seats.

But a split from the Greens group called the Peter Pilz List got eight* seats. His big idea appears to be that parties should only be crowd funded. And the "party" doesn't even have any kind of employees or anything.

According to Peter Pilz, "there will be no party foundations in practice".

Apparently it's entire youth group left the Green party en masse before the elections too in dispute with leadership.

What probably makes this more interesting is that the Social Democrats did not gain a single seat from this. The Liberal party got one seat but that's more out of rounding than anything. The People's Party (CDU equivalent) gained 15 seats and the Freedom Party (anti-immigrant, anti-islam, anti-EU, etc. party that's common in Yurop) gained 11 seats.

There were all kinds of "satirical" or "anti-establishment" parties that ran, that like Peter Pilz's list didn't present party platforms, etc. but ran on more general ideas and how politics sucks.  The Communist Party added the word "Plus" to their name after allying with the Young Greens group, this shockingly did not work and they lost a fifth of their voters compared to 2013. And they got beat by the "My Vote Counts!" "joke" party.

Our slow depressing slog around Yurop continues later this week to the Czech Republic where ANO is projected to win a landslide. Which in their system means 25% of the vote and 35 seats short of a majority.

Also one of the parties renamed themselves to "Realists" which you totally can't call yourself, also I guess they were inspired to this because of Donald Trump. So like double party foul kiddos.

*From what I understand four of these seats are people who left the Greens and joined his list since the 2013 election.

[benjipwns]

Also, after refusing to accept the results of August's Presidential election and suing to the Supreme Court and such, the runner-up in Kenya has withdrawn from the redo election scheduled for the 26th. So the party that won is claiming he can't withdraw, and his supporters are fighting to say he can't be kept on the ballot as he withdrew. And he's withdrawing because he says the countries election body hadn't made enough reforms in time for it to be fair, even though they're required to automatically hold an redo election within 60 days so nobody can futz around with stuff because of a history of this.

I guess his real concern is that some of the parties of the alliance are splitting off, content to fight elsewhere. So he might have problems matching his 45% from August.

I know what you're thinking as a solution but President Barack Hussein Obama has not lived there for at least seven continuous years. So he is not eligible to run.

[VomKriege]

Not familiar with the austrian Green splitoff but the whole "my party is not a party" gimmick is a thing yeah. In France Mélenchon and Macron insisted they were heading a "movement" though the latter is obviously transitioning to something more structured. Mélenchon obviously appeals to the idea of being a purely grassroots movement (in line obviously with his political heritage) whom members can be consulted with online referendums (it's what was done on the matter of what Mélenchon was to decide in between turns of the elections, call for voting Macron or give no instructions) and local chapters expected to shoulder some responsibilities and autonomy. I imagine Podemos or 5 Stella is the same, even if the french and italian movement are top leader heavy. It's a bit ridiculous because above a certain size you need some administration and you're de facto a party but I guess it tells you just how negative the notion is perceived now. To their credit parties probably do need to experiment with new technologies to be more in tune with the base and less of a disconnected bubble only bent of reproducing its own bureaucracy.

[Raist]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/lloydblankfein/status/920995573368545280


CEO of Goldman Sachs, if you're wondering.

[Raist]

It's difficult to do worse than London tbh.

[naff]

An historic comeback for the left in NZ last night, and a historic win for MMP. 8 weeks out from the election Andrew Little dropped as Labour leader, and with barely a policy change, Jacinda Ardern at 37 took the party from hovering ~20% in the polls to breaking over 37%, and eventually beating the incumbent National party in a three way coalition/confidence & supply agreement with two minor parties - NZ First and Green. Hot stuff.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/19/how-reluctant-leader-jacinda-ardern-charmed-new-zealand



no shit Toby

[toku]

https://twitter.com/XHNews/status/921220078418489344

 

[toku]

https://thinkprogress.org/czech-president-holds-up-machine-gun-marked-for-journalists-095d31fe562a/

[VomKriege]

https://thinkprogress.org/czech-president-holds-up-machine-gun-marked-for-journalists-095d31fe562a/

There's a lot of freakout at the Brexit or Catalonia hypotheticals but what is happening in Central Europe (and certainly in Western Europe though maybe to slightly less alarming levels) might end up having more on an effect on where the EU is headed as an institution. The total unwillingness to even pay lip service to the current refugee crisis is not a great sign. It's basically a death kneel for any project to strenghten the EU to anything more than a loose collection of states (which to be fair, is not exactly a controversial opinion) and it's setting up possible future crisis and violences right at the borders of Europe by not relieving any of the current pressure in the Near East.

[Syph]

it's all about that visegrad group
hungarian pres openly shits on the EU

[Bitmap Frogs]

https://thinkprogress.org/czech-president-holds-up-machine-gun-marked-for-journalists-095d31fe562a/

There's a lot of freakout at the Brexit or Catalonia hypotheticals but what is happening in Central Europe (and certainly in Western Europe though maybe to slightly less alarming levels) might end up having more on an effect on where the EU is headed as an institution. The total unwillingness to even pay lip service to the current refugee crisis is not a great sign. It's basically a death kneel for any project to strenghten the EU to anything more than a loose collection of states (which to be fair, is not exactly a controversial opinion) and it's setting up possible future crisis and violences right at the borders of Europe by not relieving any of the current pressure in the Near East.

Nothing's gonna happen in Catalonia.

[Valhelm]

Chinese buddy of mine, who follows developments within the party very closely, thinks that Xi Jinping is pretty clearly going to step down at the end of his second term instead of going full generalissimo like every pearl-clutching Western journo thought he would. His friend and ally Wang Qishan is stepping down because he's exceeded the retirement age of 68, which is a pretty big deal because Wang led the anti-corruption campaign that's made Xi so popular and powerful in the first place. If Xi was interested in extending his mandate of heaven for another 10, 20 years it's unlikely he'd allow Wang (and aging vice president Li Yuanchao) to retire.

Xi's interested in cementing his legacy as a great leader along the likes of Mao and Deng, but he's too pragmatic to expand his powers in ways that might threaten the international reputation of China or the stability of the Communist Party. He's trying to build a modest cult of personality and is eager to enshrine "Xi Jinping Thought" (whatever that means) into the Chinese constitution, but is too smart to try and expand his powers if there's some chance of losing the support of party delegates.

[Syph]

NY Times: Xi Jinping Unveils China’s New Leaders but No Clear Successor

For the first time in a generation, the new Standing Committee did not include a younger leader who would be groomed as heir apparent. The decision to delay anointing a successor broke with the unwritten conventions that have ensured relatively stable leadership changes since the era of Deng Xiaoping, which was troubled by schisms and purges.

...

The lack of a potential successor could be seen as a sign that Mr. Xi intends to dominate beyond this next five-year term, which ends in 2023, either by staying in office or behind the scenes. He may also want more time to test possible successors, while avoiding lame duck status with an heir waiting in the wings.

[H.I.V.E.]

NY Times: Xi Jinping Unveils China’s New Leaders but No Clear Successor

For the first time in a generation, the new Standing Committee did not include a younger leader who would be groomed as heir apparent. The decision to delay anointing a successor broke with the unwritten conventions that have ensured relatively stable leadership changes since the era of Deng Xiaoping, which was troubled by schisms and purges.

...

The lack of a potential successor could be seen as a sign that Mr. Xi intends to dominate beyond this next five-year term, which ends in 2023, either by staying in office or behind the scenes. He may also want more time to test possible successors, while avoiding lame duck status with an heir waiting in the wings.

Next Putin?

[Cerveza mas fina]

I came across this brochure today from an actual company #dead 

first page 

http://publish.folders.eu/api/embed?showMenu=true&showDownload=true&pageMode=double&showShare=true&showPrint=true&startpage=1&mainColor=eeeeee&textColor=111111&foregroundColor=666666&backgroundColor=ffffff&mainBackgroundColor=ransparent&annotationColor=649a20&skin=185&doc=2005012&token=bfaf78c4d70a30e5c20c10d8e564e4e2

[Nintex]

After 7 months we finally have a government of Christians, Liberals and what are supposed to be Liberal Conservatives.



The fat jolly dude in the Middle is our king who is very popular. The guy on the left our Prime Minister Mark Rutte (who will be our leader for a third time).
The midget in yellow is our secretary of defense. The sleazebag to the left of Rutte is Halbe, our secretary of state who opposed Obama's Iran deal.
Next to him, our deputy secretary of state who also happens to be married to a former minister of Arafat (Palestinian leader).    .

Even we don't know who most of these people are but they are sure to raise our taxes. 

[VomKriege]

I came across this brochure today from an actual company #dead 

first page 

http://publish.folders.eu/api/embed?showMenu=true&showDownload=true&pageMode=double&showShare=true&showPrint=true&startpage=1&mainColor=eeeeee&textColor=111111&foregroundColor=666666&backgroundColor=ffffff&mainBackgroundColor=ransparent&annotationColor=649a20&skin=185&doc=2005012&token=bfaf78c4d70a30e5c20c10d8e564e4e2

To the barbarians on the board : "An autonomous washing machine with a delayed start option". 

[benjipwns]

The midget in yellow is our secretary of defense.

Is the fake spider to scare away potential predators?

[VomKriege]

https://thinkprogress.org/czech-president-holds-up-machine-gun-marked-for-journalists-095d31fe562a/

There's a lot of freakout at the Brexit or Catalonia hypotheticals but what is happening in Central Europe (and certainly in Western Europe though maybe to slightly less alarming levels) might end up having more on an effect on where the EU is headed as an institution. The total unwillingness to even pay lip service to the current refugee crisis is not a great sign. It's basically a death kneel for any project to strenghten the EU to anything more than a loose collection of states (which to be fair, is not exactly a controversial opinion) and it's setting up possible future crisis and violences right at the borders of Europe by not relieving any of the current pressure in the Near East.

Nothing's gonna happen in Catalonia.

Catalonia autonomists just voted in the regional parliament to declare independence (MP opposed boycotted the vote). Apparently Madrid wasn't willing to offer all that was needed to convince Puigdemont to call a snap election which was more or less the middle ground. Spanish Senate will most likely vote the suspension of local authorities shortly and things will get heated when they will try to rein in local police and public media (autonomous slant).

As usual the vote is not legal wrt to Spain, but autonomists will claim it's legitimate.

[FStop7]

Sending in the goons to beat grannies who were trying to vote in a meaningless referendum will go down as one of the great blunders.

[Momo]

good luck catalan, hope you guys dont get fucked over

[warcock]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/lloydblankfein/status/920995573368545280


CEO of Goldman Sachs, if you're wondering.

Meh i was hoping for Strasbourg or even Paris. Symbolically speaking it wouldn't be as bitter a pill to swallow. With all keeping that facade of the franco-german motor going. 


PS did anybody buy in into Schultz when he got nominated? Dude it was november. November was fucking cold. Social democrats are like abused housewives, my political life is like an extended version of the film Misery.  Get me out of here.

[Corporal]

Man, everyone is having so much fun right now.

Thailand has their new monarch who'd rather stay in Bavaria and live a life of debauchery, the ex convicts down in Straya are purging heathen foreigners from their own parliament, Spain is preparing an all you can beat street festival, the Brits alternate between pedophilia/harassment problems and Brexit delusions, the US remains a burning garbage heap with an orange toupee,...

Only we Germans are boring. We have a rough understanding that we probably kind of want to have a Jamaica coalition between liberals, the greens and the schizophrenic center-right party blob, but nothing ever happens in the talks. We have once more been told that the parties have come to an understanding that they kind of want to stick together and do this. Hoo fucking ray. Not even the formation of our next parliament had any surprises in store.

The sole source of entertainment is watching parties spontaneously combust. The left had a harsh leadership challenge only recently, now the center-left had the vice (Scholz) attack the head honcho (Schulz) in a position paper. While that's kinda fun for a while, it pales in comparison to the rest of the world.

(Of course, problem is, once we Germans start having fun, others usually get bent over the barrel, big time. Meh. )

[HardcoreRetro]

Even we don't know who most of these people are but they are sure to raise our taxes. 

Don't worry, if you're rich they'll lower them for you.

[Marhunchy]

time to send someone to do some reporting so we can have the fucking sequel to "For whom the bell tolls"

[Syph]

visegrad to eu: "cya nerds"

A populist tycoon takes power in the Czech Republic

Hungary Orders Spies to Target Soros ‘Empire’

[Nintex]

The midget in yellow is our secretary of defense.

Is the fake spider to scare away potential predators?

Yes, our army has been low on ammo for about 5 years now. 

[VomKriege]

Late on this but heard it in a talk about the 19th Congress of the PRC : China has opened a naval military base in Djibouti this summer, the tiny east-african country housing several militaries (French, US which took housing in a former French base, Japanese, a couple others and Saudi now as well) thanks to its excellent strategic location.

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41803604

[Raist]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41803604

Ssshhhhh. They took back control. Things are looking pretty good.Something something NHS.

[VomKriege]

So the recently removed region president of Catalonia, Puigdemont, is in Brussels along some others of his dissolved government. He's not seeking asylum but it's pretty clear he'd rather not be in Spain right now as people might start being indicted for rebellion and secession.

The most important point however is that he said he would abide by the results of the regional election called for December by Madrid (absent a referendum, the next best thing to do) and think the process to independence has to slow down to avoid violence. It's weird to see the leadership swinging from rash decisions to caution but it's maybe the nature of the autonomist coalition going from the far left to center right and probably with various levels of patience with the matter of declaring independence proper...

Otherwise France is now longer in state of emergency, as a new antiterrorism law has been voted, passing into common law some of the emergency measures. As you can guess, supporters of civil liberties ain't too happy. One number making the rounds is that police conducted 6000 administrative raids (emergency statute with less safeguards and without mandatory authorization by a judge) which wielded 40 indictments for explicit antiterrorism counts, half of which for "terrorism apology". That's also, or so I heard, the 11th bill reforming security and law enforcement in 15 years, sometimes not adding much (for instance France already has a robust legal frame to monitor and police religious preaching in the 1905 law separating state and religion).

One lawyer commented that such was France : the administration claims to tend to the many almost always get priority over personal freedoms.

[Broseidon]

https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/925764444814282752

[Broseidon]

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/925779061733036032

[Madrun Badrun]

[Valhelm]

191 countries vote to condemn blockade of Cuba. Only US and Israel vote no.

Clearly we're the only good guys and the rest of the goddamn planet is wrong.

[Rufus]

Whatever that was, the site's eaten it.

[Valhelm]

191 countries vote to condemn blockade of Cuba.
 Only US and Israel vote no.

Clearly we're the only good guys and the rest of the goddamn planet is wrong.

post didn't work the first time, idk why

[Rufus]

Try code tags, maybe. :/

[Yeti]

I've been noticing a lot of missing posts like that lately, is something going on with the forum?

[Madrun Badrun]

url tags dont work i think