US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[Great Rumbler]

So for the most part we'll be talking about vidya, movies, music and other dumb shit cause why hand wring? What's done is done and all you can do is vote in the future.

Wrath, let's jam some hot tunes on Plug.DJ this weekend. Maybe some Anime Church on Sunday.

[Himu]

We're going to an anti-trump protest. Wish us luck

[Rusty Shackleford]

The Democrats are in trouble. They have no one in the pipeline, barring another Obama out of nowhere. The Clintons are done. Obama is probably going to have to remain as figurehead of the party for the forseeable future. I think the best thing they can do now is stop blaming Trump voters for their own failure and figure out exactly why 48% of the country thought Trump was an acceptable option for president. I suspect a Sanders-esque shift toward blue-collar populism is imminent.

[Great Rumbler]

The Democrats are in trouble. They have no one in the pipeline, barring another Obama out of nowhere.

Having a stable of veterans doesn't necessarily help, though, just look at what happened to the GOP.

[benjipwns]

Why can't I get more people on the Terry McAuliffe train?!?

[Great Rumbler]

Well, he did keep Virginia blue.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The Democrats are in trouble. They have no one in the pipeline, barring another Obama out of nowhere.

Having a stable of veterans doesn't necessarily help, though, just look at what happened to the GOP.

True enough. I wonder if the anti-establishment mood of the country will be as strong in 2018 or 2020? Seems like practically anyone can throw their hat into the ring, no experience necessary.

[Great Rumbler]

Having said that, Warren's probably the early favorite for 2020, if she decides to run [and I think she will].

[benjipwns]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/how-donald-trump-won-the-inside-story/

Jennifer Palmieri
Hillary for America communications director
 Our big concern, of course, was that he would then morph into somebody else. I had heard things about him, such as he reacts with audiences in front of him . . . So the concern, well, if he gets in front of a general-election audience, is he going to moderate?

Teddy Goff
Hillary for America chief digital strategist
 I always thought that he was the ideal Republican nominee. . . . The nomination of Trump was going to make this a battle about racism, misogyny, homophobia and dealing with immigrants. That’s not even getting into the core stability of our opponent.

John Podesta
Hillary for America campaign chairman
 There’s no question, I think, that [Trump] represents change. But the question is: What kind of change? And I think we put a lot into the argument that the country would succeed by rejecting that set of values which are based on division, on bigotry, on things he had said along the way, on his sort of history of abusing people.

Guy Cecil
chief strategist of Priorities USA, a pro-Clinton super PAC
 We did video tests where we showed voters 40 different clips of Trump speaking — not ads, but just clips of him insulting a disabled reporter, a clip of him insulting Rosie O’Donnell. . . . Regardless of how we tested it — a full-out test, a clip test, online, regular survey, in-person focus group — the two things that consistently stuck out were the issue around his divisiveness and the issue around him being a danger to national security. . . . Mocking the disabled reporter was by far the top-testing clip. And, by the way, that stayed true through the whole campaign.

Paul Manafort
former campaign Chairman for Donald Trump and convention manager
 Trump views Hillary Clinton as the personification of what’s rotten in Washington. He really does make the connection between the rigged system, as he calls it, the corruption of Washington, the gridlock of Washington and the all-talk, no-action approach that Washington takes. . . . His point was that the opponent was more than just Hillary. She was the symbol.

Kellyanne Conway
Donald J. Trump for President campaign manager
 There was maybe a 14-day period where she lost eight to nine contests, I believe, to Bernie Sanders. And I studied that and I thought, she’s going to have a real problem here because she’s somebody who’s always caught unaware. She was caught unaware by Barack Obama in 2008. She seemed to be caught unaware of Bernie Sanders’s surge. . . . And we could catch her unaware again.

Sean Spicer
Republican National Committee chief strategist
 The narrative was already baked in. That was the beauty of her. In most campaigns, you’re trying to define a candidate. She was defined as someone that people don’t like and don’t trust, and all we had to do was reinforce the existing narrative.

Kellyanne Conway
Donald J. Trump for President campaign manager

 In the wake of President Obama’s historic victory, I was curious and not so convinced that Hillary Clinton was going to be able to claim the same mantle toward history that he did. . . . I’ve always thought for Hillary, the question is not, “Would you vote for a woman?” It’s, “Would you vote for that woman?” It’s Hillary. It’s not a hypothetical.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I feel like HRC's team should have picked up waaaaaaay earlier on the fact that nothing was going to dissuade most Trump voters, focus less on him as an awful person and instead focus on the parts of the country where his trade talk was well received.

Of course, being married to the guy who signed NAFTA was probably always going to work against her in those regions.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Having said that, Warren's probably the early favorite for 2020, if she decides to run [and I think she will].

I feel like Warren wouldn't be combative enough against Trump. She doesn't have that pugnaciousness that Sanders had. Trump steamrolls polite opponents way too easily.

[agrajag]

I think Warren has no chance. Fucking A. Bernie will be way too old to run again.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Having said that, Warren's probably the early favorite for 2020, if she decides to run [and I think she will].

I feel like Warren wouldn't be combative enough against Trump. She doesn't have that pugnaciousness that Sanders had. Trump steamrolls polite opponents way too easily.

breh, what?

She's the only one who really went in on him not too long ago.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong! But I just don't think she'd do well against Trump. Especially debates. It'd be HRC all over again - a (perhaps shrill) recitation of the facts against Trump's appeal to basic emotions. Wonkishness won't be enough to carry the election.

[Let's Cyber]

If this election was a wrestling storyline, Warren is the one set up for a future feud with Trump.

[agrajag]

I think Trump set an all time low in political discourse in US and the consequences will never be the same.

For all of the faults and incompetence of the recent Republican candidates, whether it was Romney, McCain or Bush, they were such classical politicians compared to Trump. Even Dubya had so much nuance and tact compared to the Donald. All half the country needed was a complete demagogue to promise them the world. These new voters don't care about logistics, they just care about promises. All you have to do now is yell as loudly and frequently about how you're going to bring back all the jobs, that the economy is going to be tremendous, everything will be great and huge, the illegals will be bant, the muslims will be bant, tax breaks for everyone, blah blah blah This is now the standard for a political candidate. If you dare bring any realism to the discourse you will now be viewed as part of the corrupt political establishment. I really didn't think Americans at large were this stupid, but it seems they were just chomping at the bit for someone to come and promise them everything they want to hear.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I think Trump set an all time low in political discourse in US and the consequences will never be the same.

For all of the faults and incompetence of the recent Republican candidates, whether it was Romney, McCain or Bush, they were such classical politicians compared to Trump. Even Dubya had so much nuance and tact compared to the Donald. All half the country needed was a complete demagogue to promise them the world. These new voters don't care about logistics, they just care about promises. All you have to do now is yell as loudly and frequently about how you're going to bring back all the jobs, that the economy is going to be tremendous, everything will be great and huge, the illegals will be bant, the muslims will be bant, tax breaks for everyone, blah blah blah This is now the standard for a political candidate. If you dare bring any realism to the discourse you will now be viewed as part of the corrupt political establishment. I really didn't think Americans at large were this stupid, but it seems they were just chomping at the bit for someone to come and promise them everything they want to hear.

That's exactly going to be Warren's problem. The next election will be won on emotion. Warren may have the facts on her side - I'd probably vote for her - but the fact is that Repubs will tear fancy-pants Professor Warren a new one with the "ivory tower" label. She doesn't have the charisma or the ability to compress important numbers and facts into simple sentences.

Frankly, the Dems need Bill Clinton again. Someone with the common man's touch and a head for facts. Definitely more populist than Clinton was, though. And I don't see anyone like that.

[benjipwns]

I really didn't think Americans at large were this stupid, but it seems they were just chomping at the bit for someone to come and promise them everything they want to hear.

It's weird seeing this sentiment posted on places that aren't conservative or libertarian.

[agrajag]

I really didn't think Americans at large were this stupid, but it seems they were just chomping at the bit for someone to come and promise them everything they want to hear.

It's weird seeing this sentiment posted on places that aren't conservative or libertarian.

why

[Kara]

I really didn't think Americans at large were this stupid, but it seems they were just chomping at the bit for someone to come and promise them everything they want to hear.

It's weird seeing this sentiment posted on places that aren't conservative or libertarian.

why

In those realms it's a well worn meme that minorities vote Democratic because the party promises them things they don't deserve and can't possibly be paid for.

[benjipwns]

not just minorites! at least on the libertarian realms which include the medicare and social security parasites

plus it reminds me of the olden times, back when Steam was just a twinkle in gaben's eye

[agrajag]

I really didn't think Americans at large were this stupid, but it seems they were just chomping at the bit for someone to come and promise them everything they want to hear.

It's weird seeing this sentiment posted on places that aren't conservative or libertarian.

why

In those realms it's a well worn meme that minorities vote Democratic because the party promises them things they don't deserve and can't possibly be paid for.

That's not true though. Either way, it's pretty ridiculous to draw a parallel between the perceived liberal entitlement and the egregious demagoguery of Trump.

[Brehvolution]

The cynical person in me wants to let them axe medicare. Why should I/we pay so much to keep these fucks alive who vote overwhelmingly for these shit candidates?

Or maybe they just voted themselves into extinction.

[agrajag]

The cynical person in me wants to let them axe medicare. Why should I pay so much to keep these fucks alive who vote overwhelmingly for these shit candidates?

my only silver lining out of this whole thing for me is that I've been gambling on my health and not paying for insurance for close to a decade now. I made out ok the first year Obamacare was put in place because the penalty was only like $250 for the whole year or something. But the last time I did my tax returns they penalized me for the exact amount I would have paid if I had health insurance! So I'm not going to miss those penalties eating up my tax returns.. It'd be nice being able to have health insurance with a pre-existing condition, but I guess I can't have it both ways.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The cynical person in me wants to let them axe medicare. Why should I pay so much to keep these fucks alive who vote overwhelmingly for these shit candidates?

my only silver lining out of this whole thing for me is that I've been gambling on my health and not paying for insurance for close to a decade now. I made out ok the first year Obamacare was put in place because the penalty was only like $250 for the whole year or something. But the last time I did my tax returns they penalized me for the exact amount I would have paid if I had health insurance! So I'm not going to miss those penalties eating up my tax returns.. It'd be nice being able to have health insurance with a pre-existing condition, but I guess I can't have it both ways.

If ACA is scrapped I wouldn't be surprised to see some states enacting their own programs (like Colorado's attempt this election).

Same thing with Roe v. Wade - if overturned, some states (CA, etc...) would move to make it legal within the state.

[Brehvolution]

The cynical person in me wants to let them axe medicare. Why should I pay so much to keep these fucks alive who vote overwhelmingly for these shit candidates?

my only silver lining out of this whole thing for me is that I've been gambling on my health and not paying for insurance for close to a decade now. I made out ok the first year Obamacare was put in place because the penalty was only like $250 for the whole year or something. But the last time I did my tax returns they penalized me for the exact amount I would have paid if I had health insurance! So I'm not going to miss those penalties eating up my tax returns.. It'd be nice being able to have health insurance with a pre-existing condition, but I guess I can't have it both ways.

My poke was at the elderly. My heart goes out to you and your needs, but apparently, America is now against that.

[Great Rumbler]

There's a report out that Trump's pick for Secretary of State could be John Bolton. 

[benjipwns]

That's not true though. Either way, it's pretty ridiculous to draw a parallel between the perceived liberal entitlement and the egregious demagoguery of Trump.

Sorry, it was a joke at everybody's expense, for retreating to it when they lose an election. Democrats just won the last two times so I hadn't seen it in a while!

[benjipwns]

There's a report out that Trump's pick for Secretary of State could be John Bolton. 

Yeah, but apparently the other person he's considering for this is Newt.

I think I'd prefer Bolton of all people.

[Great Rumbler]

The report I saw said the other person was Bob Corker [Tennessee Senator].

[agrajag]

The cynical person in me wants to let them axe medicare. Why should I pay so much to keep these fucks alive who vote overwhelmingly for these shit candidates?

my only silver lining out of this whole thing for me is that I've been gambling on my health and not paying for insurance for close to a decade now. I made out ok the first year Obamacare was put in place because the penalty was only like $250 for the whole year or something. But the last time I did my tax returns they penalized me for the exact amount I would have paid if I had health insurance! So I'm not going to miss those penalties eating up my tax returns.. It'd be nice being able to have health insurance with a pre-existing condition, but I guess I can't have it both ways.

My poke was at the elderly. My heart goes out to you and your needs, but apparently, America is now against that.

Yeah, I know, it was just a tangent post.

My grandmother's sister on my mom's side is pushing 100. She emigrated from U.S.S.R. to France and then to US as a young girl during WWII and worked her ass off to plant her roots here and care for her family. She idolizes capitalism and hates Liberals with a passion. She in so many ways such a strong, inspiring woman, but a hateful shrew in others. I've grown to not want to ever be around her. I was invited to go to Thanksgiving to my cousin's (same part of the family), and my cousin's husband is a Duck Dynasty watching, conspiracy theory believing alt-righter. He was mocking me about me coming over and doing some spirit cooking (I am a chef by profession). I figured I would be working that day anyway so I said I wouldn't be able to make it, but I found out today that we're not going to be open for Thanksgiving and I still don't feel like going there with that fucker and my aunt there, gloating about Donald fucking Trump..

/livejournal

[Freyj]

Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds.

People who worry about affording food aren't generally looking at savings accounts.

Oklahoma couldn't manage an Arby's.

[agrajag]

That's not true though. Either way, it's pretty ridiculous to draw a parallel between the perceived liberal entitlement and the egregious demagoguery of Trump.

Sorry, it was a joke at everybody's expense, for retreating to it when they lose an election. Democrats just won the last two times so I hadn't seen it in a while!

Nah, it's all good. I wish I was someone who saw both parties equally as bad so I could not give a fuck right now and snipe at everyone from my ivory tower.

[Momo]

Im so shook I ate a whole large pizza and bread sticks.

Fuck man, get your hand off the carb nuke button, I'm here for you 

[benjipwns]

The report I saw said the other person was Bob Corker [Tennessee Senator].

Politico said Newt and Corker, then added Bolton later. So I guess all three!

Corker would probably be my pick of those three. Newt is like the worst possible person for that particular position even in a conservative/Republican administration.

[benjipwns]

Nah, it's all good. I wish I was someone who saw both parties equally as bad so I could not give a fuck right now and snipe at everyone from my ivory tower.

hey, it's the clock tower buddy

[Brehvolution]

We are going to witness the right's fever dream of government.

Goodbye liberal America. Hello police state.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Charles Pierce over at Esquire calls Politico "Tiger Beat on the Potomac." It has its good points but sometimes it really does seem like a breathless gossip rag.

[agrajag]

Both parties need to do some soul searching right now. Democrats need to figure out how they ended up losing all three branches of the government, and GOP need to figure out how they let their party get hijacked by complete crazies (although this one was more of an evolutionary rather than revolutionary development).

[brawndolicious]

The Democrats are in trouble. They have no one in the pipeline, barring another Obama out of nowhere.

Having a stable of veterans doesn't necessarily help, though, just look at what happened to the GOP.

James mentioned Kamala Harris who seems like a good pick. She's like a younger, more attractive, and more emotive version of Hillary. And her background is Indian-Jamaican American which might get her some points with the Asian communities which are sure to hate Trump in 4 years.

The only issue is that she is 52 and has only been married for two years, therefore she has no kids. Which being a woman might make her get judged as not being family centric enough. But she's really great and I hope she runs.

[bluemax]

I feel like the worst part of this (so far) are all my supposedly smart liberal friends and family who are ignoring the realities of how their party fucked up and repeating the same vitriol that is the reason Hilary lost.

Maybe, I dunno, don't call people deplorables? Don't forget about all the poor people who live outside of major cities and see their way of life going away? Maybe find a candidate who even if they don't appeal to more demographics, at least lets those demographics know they aren't being forgotten or wiped out.

But I can't really share this with my friends and family because I am CIS-gendered Het-scum.

[agrajag]

But alienating half the country worked wonders for Donald Trump

[Let's Cyber]

Secretary of State: Newt Gingrich
Secretary of the Wall: Rudy Giuliani
Secretary of the Treasury:  Ivanka Trump
Secretary of Defense: The reanimated corpse of George Patton
Attorney General: Hope Hicks
Secretary of the Interior: Kellyanne Conway
Secretary of Agriculture: Eric Trump
Secretary of Commerce: Roger Ailes
Secretary of Labor: Donald Jr.
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Secretary of Transportation: Chris Christie  Barron Trump
Secretary of Energy: *insert Captain Planet villain here*
Secretary of Education
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Secretary of Dealing with the Muslims: Corey Lewandowski
Secretary of Making Me Laugh before Bedtime (Official Court Jester) : Roger Stone

[bluemax]

But alienating half the country worked wonders for Donald Trump

Because he alienated the half of the country that doesn't vote.

[Himu]

I'll admit the democrats fucked up. I have been critical of them myself. I voted for Bernie in the primaries.

What are some blind spots we have that we can work on?

[Kara]

If ACA is scrapped I wouldn't be surprised to see some states enacting their own programs (like Colorado's attempt this election).

Same thing with Roe v. Wade - if overturned, some states (CA, etc...) would move to make it legal within the state.

After DOMA and PBA, it's hard to believe constitutional rulings against reproductive rights wouldn't immediately be followed up by new federal legislation barring states from being refuges.

[chronovore]

Has this been posted here yet? I can't imagine not, but:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Another friend posted that we're just prepping for the SAC LARP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Ghost_in_the_Shell#American_Empire

[Himu]

David Wong is right in his article but he waves away racism like so many liberals. Either that or excuses it.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The Democrats are in trouble. They have no one in the pipeline, barring another Obama out of nowhere.

Having a stable of veterans doesn't necessarily help, though, just look at what happened to the GOP.

James mentioned Kamala Harris who seems like a good pick. She's like a younger, more attractive, and more emotive version of Hillary. And her background is Indian-Jamaican American which might get her some points with the Asian communities which are sure to hate Trump in 4 years.

The only issue is that she is 52 and has only been married for two years, therefore she has no kids. Which being a woman might make her get judged as not being family centric enough. But she's really great and I hope she runs.

Assuming Trump doesn't implode on his own merits, and is actually competitive for re-election, the Dems are  gonna need someone angry and charismatic. I don't think Harris has the right qualities. Another calm, hopey-changey-middle-of-the-road candidate will get crushed by him like his milquetoast primary challengers, nor will an angryish national electorate will respond to Harris the right way. Assuming, of course, that the DNC plans to try to peel off some of the economy-minded Trump voters.

[benjipwns]

Secretary of Commerce: Roger Ailes

They had a falling out because Trump wouldn't do what he was told and Ailes thought he was blowing the election.

[Let's Cyber]

Oh, I thought Ailes and Trump had made up?

If not, insert Katrina Pierson

[benjipwns]

Has this been posted here yet? I can't imagine not, but:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Look, we're going to get actual Nazis in the comment section of this article.

[Rusty Shackleford]

If ACA is scrapped I wouldn't be surprised to see some states enacting their own programs (like Colorado's attempt this election).

Same thing with Roe v. Wade - if overturned, some states (CA, etc...) would move to make it legal within the state.

After DOMA and PBA, it's hard to believe constitutional rulings against reproductive rights wouldn't immediately be followed up by new federal legislation barring states from being refuges.

I hadn't thought about that...closing the barn door fo reals.

[thisismyusername]

Both parties need to do some soul searching right now. Democrats need to figure out how they ended up losing all three branches of the government,

That's easy. See post right above yours. Democrats only have themselves to blame in regards to how they massively fumbled the ball.

I'll admit the democrats fucked up. I have been critical of them myself. I voted for Bernie in the primaries.

What are some blind spots we have that we can work on?

Not taking demographics/states for granted
 Not clearing a path for a candidate with favor, letting them genuinely be challenged by 1+ more candidates fairly
 Not ignoring millennials and focusing closer on them
 Not setting up a monolithic opponent, which while frustrating, will vastly help when talking to people
 Better groundwork
 Adjusting for changes in the political climate
 Having a populist presidential candidate
 
 Lots.

Also these. They were running a game like the Establishment mattered against someone (and within their own party) that DID NOT care about the Establishment and resonated with the public on that.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I'll admit the democrats fucked up. I have been critical of them myself. I voted for Bernie in the primaries.

What are some blind spots we have that we can work on?

Not taking demographics/states for granted
 Not clearing a path for a candidate with favor, letting them genuinely be challenged by 1+ more candidates fairly
 Not ignoring millennials and focusing closer on them
 Not setting up a monolithic opponent, which while frustrating, will vastly help when talking to people
 Better groundwork
 Adjusting for changes in the political climate
 Having a populist presidential candidate
 
 Lots.

HRC def took WI/MI/OH/PA for granted. I think she visited Wisconsin once? It should have been very obvious that she needed to focus on that region, especially since Repubs were ascendant there over the last 6 years. But then again, it would be hard to sell her to the same folks that NAFTA screwed over so badly.

[benjipwns]

This was a Presidential year, three of those states were locks. It was time to flip Georgia.

[Rusty Shackleford]

This was a Presidential year, three of those states were locks. It was time to flip Georgia.

I could almost be president if I took that kind of advice! Almost.

[jakefromstatefarm]

I'm from the mid west. Central Indiana...This is one of hundreds of cities that in the 50s-90s were booming from all the factories. People going straight from high school into 25 year careers with great benefits and pay. And then, in the 90s, when jobs started going to Mexico or China, these cities literally started dying.

I don't want to take issue with the sentiment of this post but it's important to note that the timing here is off. Manufacturing's share of employment and relative wages in the Rust Belt declined throughout the entire post-war period (cf. here). The starkest drop is after 1980. The narrative that privileges NAFTA and other free trade agreements elides the fact that US manufacturing was declining well before they were put in place, to say nothing of their negligible overall impact on the US labor market.

[Himu]

I don't know what to do with a lot of that. For instance I felt Bernie should have been allowed to challenge Hillary on all levels. We canvassed houses in Htown, trying to get people to vote Bernie. We saw the poll results in the primaries and Bernie got creamed.

[thisismyusername]

David Wong is right in his article but he waves away racism like so many liberals. Either that or excuses it.

Girl, no he doesn't. He even said he'd get those segments in the articles comment section. He didn't focus on it because he was explaining why Trump's rhetoric was resonating with even non-racist folks in the Rust Belt states.

I'm from the mid west. Central Indiana...This is one of hundreds of cities that in the 50s-90s were booming from all the factories. People going straight from high school into 25 year careers with great benefits and pay. And then, in the 90s, when jobs started going to Mexico or China, these cities literally started dying.

I don't want to take issue with the sentiment of this post but it's important to note that the timing here is off. Manufacturing's share of employment and relative wages in the Rust Belt declined throughout the entire post-war period (cf. here). The starkest drop is after 1980. The narrative that privileges NAFTA and other free trade agreements elides the fact that US manufacturing was declining well before they were put in place, to say nothing of their negligible overall impact on the US labor market.

Yes, but most of the jobs that were left were taken out, key example just this year:



NAFTA was a cry from Trump because the remaining jobs from the post-war boom that weren't already gone are going. That's why those folks in those areas are really pissed.

[Kara]

Has this been posted here yet? I can't imagine not, but:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Basic, obvious truths that have gone unquestioned for thousands of years now get laughed at and shouted down . . . that not getting exploded by a bomb is better than getting exploded by a bomb.

Unless you live in the Middle East, in which case the more bombs you get blown to smithereens by the better. (Skulls for the skull throne and all that.)

You know why I don't take the people discussed in this article seriously? Because they're full of fucking shit and first in line on the one country, two systems train when they benefit from it.