http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
There is an eye witness who says it was self defense, like the people who actually investigated the case said. It's so weird that they knew more about what happened than some jackass anchor on MSNBC.
Idk man, I've heard all sorts of conflicting information. Some saying that basically Zimmerman started it all by tackling him, others saying Trayvon actually attacked Zimmerman after being approached and that there is physical evidence to back that up.
I've got a feeling Zimmerman is going to win the case and things will get crazy
I've got a feeling Zimmerman is going to win the case and things will get crazy
In all likelihood Zimmerman, but that isn't definitive. What if Trayvon decided to take a swing at him for asking questions?
I've got a feeling Zimmerman is going to win the case and things will get crazy
I've got the same feeling. :(
Obama and the White House had previously refrained from commenting on the case. Following demands by the New Black Panthers and others on scene in Sanford, Fla. that the White House get involved, Obama jumped into the fight.http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/23/obama-comments-on-trayvon-martin-case-after-black-panthers-sharpton-ralliers-bemoan-wh-silence-video/#ixzz1q47hS7gs
It's weird for an outsider looking in, I always thought that the US is actually quite a well blended society when it came to race.
Sounds like murder to me. What's the big deal. Send him to Jail.
Sounds like murder to me. What's the big deal. Send him to Jail.
The "big deal" is public pressure to get the authorities to do just that, after they had decided to let him walk. Derp.spoiler (click to show/hide)What's up with libertarians and conservatives capitalizing nouns like that? I think tennin brought this up back in the day.[close]
Sounds like murder to me. What's the big deal. Send him to Jail.
The "big deal" is public pressure to get the authorities to do just that, after they had decided to let him walk. Derp.spoiler (click to show/hide)What's up with libertarians and conservatives capitalizing nouns like that? I think tennin brought this up back in the day.[close]
But starting in 2011, Zimmerman’s calls increasingly focused on what he considered “suspicious” characters walking around the neighborhood—almost all of whom were young black males.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html
On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about “7-9” years old, four feet tall, with a “skinny build” and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman’s suspicion of the boy.
On Aug. 3 of last year, Zimmerman reported a black male who he believed was “involved in recent” burglaries in the neighborhood.
And on Oct. 1 he reported two black male suspects “20-30” years old, in a white Chevrolet Impala. He told police he did “not recognize” the men or their vehicle and that he was concerned because of the recent burglaries.
Despite the frequency of his calls to the police, Zimmerman had only become a member of the neighborhood watch in September 2011. In fact, Twin Lakes’ neighborhood watch itself did not exist before then, according to Wendy Dorival, volunteer coordinator for the Sanford Police Department.
Dorival first met with Twin Lakes residents to give a neighborhood-watch presentation on the evening of Sept. 22. The meeting was initiated by a call from Zimmerman, she said.
“He was the one who contacted me at first to get it started there,” Dorival said.
Dorival recalled that about two dozen residents showed up to hear her speak about the responsibilities of neighborhood-watch volunteers.
“There were about three or four burglaries that had happened that people were upset about, and that’s what initiated me to get out there for them to start a neighborhood watch,” Dorival said.
Part of the instruction Dorival gives new volunteers, she said, includes when to call 911 and when to call non-emergency numbers. Both lines go to the same operator, Dorival told the Daily Beast, but the different numbers allow the operator to triage calls.
According to the instructional materials prepared by the Sanford police department, one of Zimmerman’s responsibilities as neighborhood watch coordinator was to act as a liaison between the Sanford police and the neighborhood-watch volunteers. A police slideshow (PDF) Dorival screened at her presentation says the neighborhood watch is “NOT the vigilante police.”
Muhammad said the group's national chairman, Dr. Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, D.C. is receiving donations from black entertainers and athletes. They hope to collect $1 million by next week, Muhammad said.I find that bleakly hilarious.
the pic is apparently fake.
QuoteMuhammad said the group's national chairman, Dr. Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, D.C. is receiving donations from black entertainers and athletes. They hope to collect $1 million by next week, Muhammad said.I find that bleakly hilarious.
Also Malik Zulu Shabaz. It's like he stuck his hands into a name tombola, and had temporal lobe epilepsy at the same time. Also probably not very bright.
Yep. But the context is all the fun.QuoteMuhammad said the group's national chairman, Dr. Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, D.C. is receiving donations from black entertainers and athletes. They hope to collect $1 million by next week, Muhammad said.I find that bleakly hilarious.
Also Malik Zulu Shabaz. It's like he stuck his hands into a name tombola, and had temporal lobe epilepsy at the same time. Also probably not very bright.
You do realize that Malik and Shabazz are common arabic names, right? And Zulu is a common African name.
I've got a feeling Zimmerman is going to win the case and things will get crazy
As dumb and crazy as my last post is, we'll see a lot dumber and certainly more crazier posts like that when this thing rolls out.
ya but you're a bear-man who doesn't need a gun for protection so why would you be nervous unarmed?
Pretty sure the vast majority of Americans feel comfortable without fire arms, kinda painting in broad strokes, my man.
If anything, it sounds like a problem with American officers, not Americans.
Thanks for clarifying while not being a dick ::) take a chill pill, friend
Here's another example of how fucked up American gun culture is.
We occasionally bring US officers up here for meetings and briefings and the like for joint investigations. Obviously, because they have no standing in Canada, they can't bring their sidearms into the country.
There have been instances where the US guys are downright nervous and freaking because they're unarmed. To just be sitting in plainclothes in a coffee shop in the suburbs of Toronto like anyone else and to be sweating because you don't have a gun on your hip. That's fucked up to me.
I never carry off duty (for one thing, it's a bit of a grey area in Canadian law and policy), and I never give it a second thought.
(I acknowledge the difference in that America has higher crime and violence rates then us in Soviet Canuckistan, but I'm still never nervous when walking about on vacation in the US)
I honestly don't have anything to say to that other than I guess it explains why you went into law enforcement.
I don't know Boogie, it's hard to reply to anything you say knowing you're probably about to change it.
Okay. But how can I judge you other than the way you portray yourself to me?
Do you not feel you represent yourself as an officer just because you're not wearing your badge?
Man, you certainly are confrontational for a keeper of the peace.
Call me naive but I really don't understand why anyone other than a police officer should be carrying a gun. I know people say it's to deter criminals or something, but having grown up in Canada and now having lived in Japan, it seems to me the crime rates in both countries aren't wildly out of control with unarmed citizens.
Call me naive but I really don't understand why anyone other than a police officer should be carrying a gun. I know people say it's to deter criminals or something, but having grown up in Canada and now having lived in Japan, it seems to me the crime rates in both countries aren't wildly out of control with unarmed citizens.
Call me naive but I really don't understand why anyone other than a police officer should be carrying a gun. I know people say it's to deter criminals or something, but having grown up in Canada and now having lived in Japan, it seems to me the crime rates in both countries aren't wildly out of control with unarmed citizens.
I didn't even like paintball growing up. I'm just a pacifist, I guess.
Isn't a knife supposed to be more deadly within a certain range anyway?
Omg who fucking sits right behind someone in a nearly empty theater. Fml
Omg who fucking sits right behind someone in a nearly empty theater. FmlSpencer you smell lovely.
Well this thread hit :poop bin status pretty quickly. Honestly there should already be some rioting going on over this. The UK folks dealt with a similar situation to this one by lighting up everything in sight.
Well this thread hit :poop bin status pretty quickly. Honestly there should already be some rioting going on over this. The UK folks dealt with a similar situation to this one by lighting up everything in sight.
Call me naive but I really don't understand why anyone other than a police officer should be carrying a gun. I know people say it's to deter criminals or something, but having grown up in Canada and now having lived in Japan, it seems to me the crime rates in both countries aren't wildly out of control with unarmed citizens.
Let me be clear. I do not necessarily believe outright that America's gun control laws (or lack thereof) are, in and of themselves, solely responsible for the United States having a homicide rate that is five times higher than EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD COUNTRY.
But I absolutely believe that it has to be on the table as a factor for discussion on the subject.
As to your specific post: I grew up in a relatively "redneck" area of Ontario. Small farming town. My grandfather, and several of my cousins, are deeply involved in hunting culture. So I respect that.
But, outside of hunting weapons, I agree with you in broad strokes. I don't see the need for a society to have anyone other than its law enforcement officers and soldiers armed. Allow for hunters and collectors to own firearms with appropriate safeguards. Other than that, why consider firearms to be a "right", when we consider driving a car to be a "privilege"?
Right, and this situation has shown that violence, entitlement, and "justice" are the solutions to all of life's problems.Well they're not, obviously, I'm just sayin' is all.
Suuuure, except Mark Duggan was a drug dealer, a founding member of a London gang, and suspected of plotting a revenge attack following the fatal stabbing of his cousin, and was in possession of a gun when he was shot by a UK police officer.Minor.
Y'know, minor details 'n shit.
I have no desire to own a gun, but the NRA has too much lobbying power here, it's not happening.It's not so much that it can't be done but rather that it isn't even a question to be asked on TV discussions etc. That's the gun culture that Boogie is talking about. People should be talking about guns in some way here and as far as I've seen it hasn't happened.
Right, and this situation has shown that violence, entitlement, and "justice" are the solutions to all of life's problems.Well they're not, obviously, I'm just sayin' is all.
Omg who fucking sits right behind someone in a nearly empty theater. FmlMy favourite post of today.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543377_3680818382683_1341753290_33539850_672640207_n.jpg)
From my FB feed. Debating whether to PM the guy letting him know it's fake, or do the smart thing and stay away.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543377_3680818382683_1341753290_33539850_672640207_n.jpg)
From my FB feed. Debating whether to PM the guy letting him know it's fake, or do the smart thing and stay away.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543377_3680818382683_1341753290_33539850_672640207_n.jpg)
From my FB feed. Debating whether to PM the guy letting him know it's fake, or do the smart thing and stay away.
i like how he assumes that because they're black they clearly look alike because clearly black people only have one skin tone hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
yup...I'm not letting any of that slide on facebook. Haven't seen anything stupid though, outside of white people posting pics of themselves in hoodies asking "do I look dangerous?"Tell them that they would if they had a bag of skittles and some iced tea. 8)
Some news sources are saying that Zimmerman might have been attacked and suffered a broken nose. That would change a lot in the case.That is pretty pertinent info if true, but why did it take this long for that to come out?
Some news sources are saying that Zimmerman might have been attacked and suffered a broken nose. That would change a lot in the case.That is pretty pertinent info if true, but why did it take this long for that to come out?
Some news sources are saying that Zimmerman might have been attacked and suffered a broken nose. That would change a lot in the case.
Some news sources are saying that Zimmerman might have been attacked and suffered a broken nose. That would change a lot in the case.That is pretty pertinent info if true, but why did it take this long for that to come out?
Probably because the whole ordeal is just a circus and a lot of the media is trying to paint some racially charged picture. It's an awful situation because a young boy died and another man probably won't get a fair trial.
Someone punches you, it's okay to take out a gun and shoot them.
Well if you fear for you life and it was unprovoked, I absolutely agree with the right to use deadly force to stop an assailant. Those aren't the conditions of this case, but I just wanted to point that out.
Unprovoked? Did you get the part where the dude stalked Martin and continued to chase him for practically no reason? Despite the fact police told him they're on their way and there was no reason to follow?
Someone punches you, it's okay to take out a gun and shoot them.
Well if you fear for you life and it was unprovoked, I absolutely agree with the right to use deadly force to stop an assailant. Those aren't the conditions of this case, but I just wanted to point that out.
But they might be the conditions if there is more evidence that comes out.
I guess my point is that there is a lot that armchair lawyers here don't know about the situation.
Unprovoked? Did you get the part where the dude stalked Martin and continued to chase him for practically no reason? Despite the fact police told him they're on their way and there was no reason to follow?
The guy (Zimmerman) was definitely a dumb shit and overzealous, but being a dumb shit isn't illegal.
FoC, I agree one should consider all possibilities, but it seems pretty clear with the concrete evidence we do have that at the very least Zimmerman was a hammer out looking for a nail.
Unprovoked? Did you get the part where the dude stalked Martin and continued to chase him for practically no reason? Despite the fact police told him they're on their way and there was no reason to follow?
The guy (Zimmerman) was definitely a dumb shit and overzealous, but being a dumb shit isn't illegal.
Here's the relevant part that was pointed out to me by a lawyer friend. From the description of what was happening under Florida law it could just as easily be shown that Trayvon was acting in self defense, since he was being pursued by an armed assailant.Unprovoked? Did you get the part where the dude stalked Martin and continued to chase him for practically no reason? Despite the fact police told him they're on their way and there was no reason to follow?
The guy (Zimmerman) was definitely a dumb shit and overzealous, but being a dumb shit isn't illegal.
Here's the relevant part that was pointed out to me by a lawyer friend. From the description of what was happening under Florida law it could just as easily be shown that Trayvon was acting in self defense, since he was being pursued by an armed assailant.Unprovoked? Did you get the part where the dude stalked Martin and continued to chase him for practically no reason? Despite the fact police told him they're on their way and there was no reason to follow?
The guy (Zimmerman) was definitely a dumb shit and overzealous, but being a dumb shit isn't illegal.
Excuse me Bud, how am I a fucking idiot? I never once said I didn't think it was Zimmermans fault.
Someone punches you, it's okay to take out a gun and shoot them.
Well if you fear for you life and it was unprovoked, I absolutely agree with the right to use deadly force to stop an assailant. Those aren't the conditions of this case, but I just wanted to point that out.
Reading comprehension for the lose my friend.
Note the words "Those aren't the conditions of this case"
Now seriously, can anyone tell me if this dude is going to stand trial yet?
I think they'll have a hard time proving it was a hate crime, he needs to just be in jail because he killed somebody.
I think they'll have a hard time proving it was a hate crime, he needs to just be in jail because he killed somebody.
Listen to the audio I posted.
Just listened to the 911 recording, I wish the dispatcher would have used more concise language. A lawyer might be able to twist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v="okay, we don't need you to do that" into "that's fine, but unnecessary"
Clearly he meant to stop following him, I just wish for legal purposes that's what he said :/
you dont think a sleezeball lawyer would try that angle?
Like I said, the dispatcher is clearly to anyone with a brain saying don't follow him you nut job, but our courts sorta suck ass.
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae18/PolarBearsClub/neogaf/kckrc0.gif)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae18/PolarBearsClub/neogaf/kckrc0.gif)
Its basically its own country- much like texas. Who needs em
"Then. Mr. Zimmerman said, Trayvon hit him hard enough that he fell to the ground — which, if true, would explain what Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyer, Craig Sonner, has said was a broken nose—and began slamming his head into the sidewalk."
If this is true, reason enough to shoot?
I hate the media circus this has become.
"Then. Mr. Zimmerman said, Trayvon hit him hard enough that he fell to the ground — which, if true, would explain what Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyer, Craig Sonner, has said was a broken nose—and began slamming his head into the sidewalk."
If this is true, reason enough to shoot?
I hate the media circus this has become.
Even with your overly, overly generous (i.e. bullshit) retelling
1) Stalk and harass someone
2) Start a fight, get ass kicked
3) ???
4) Get to claim self-dense when you shoot them
Because if my head is being slammed against the ground, I would consider that a life threatening situation, similar to if I had a gun pulled on me.
if your head was repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk you would have more than a broken nose.
Because if my head is being slammed against the ground, I would consider that a life threatening situation, similar to if I had a gun pulled on me.if your head was repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk you would have more than a broken nose.
... what if what really happened is that Trayvon Martin was caught in a vortex and the good samaritan Zimmerman was merely trying to help? I don't know the truth just trying to raise questions is all ???
I wish I knew where everyone had these details I must be missing
When a defendant claims self-defense, "the State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense." In other words the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt never shifts from the prosecution, so it's surprisingly easy to evade prosecution by claiming self-defense.
This has led to some stunning verdicts in the state. In Tallahassee in 2008, two rival gangs engaged in a neighborhood shootout, and a 15-year-old African American male was killed in the crossfire. The three defendants all either were acquitted or had their cases dismissed, because the defense successfully argued they were defending themselves under the "stand your ground" law.
we have zimmerman's 911 call where he says he's going after trayvon
we have trayvon's call to his girlfriend where he says he was just chased by zimmerman, then we hear their conversation ("what are you following me for?" "what are you doing here), then we hear the fight
we have multiple witnesses claiming they heard trayvon cry out just before the gunshot
we have zimmerman who has still not been charged with a single damn thing a month after trayvon has died
gee it's all so confusing i guess we'll never know what really happened so let's stop crucifying zimmerman ok
QuoteWhen a defendant claims self-defense, "the State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense." In other words the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt never shifts from the prosecution, so it's surprisingly easy to evade prosecution by claiming self-defense.
This has led to some stunning verdicts in the state. In Tallahassee in 2008, two rival gangs engaged in a neighborhood shootout, and a 15-year-old African American male was killed in the crossfire. The three defendants all either were acquitted or had their cases dismissed, because the defense successfully argued they were defending themselves under the "stand your ground" law.
Good Lord Almighty. Remind me never to go to Florida ever.
we have zimmerman's 911 call where he says he's going after trayvon
we have trayvon's call to his girlfriend where he says he was just chased by zimmerman, then we hear their conversation ("what are you following me for?" "what are you doing here), then we hear the fight
we have multiple witnesses claiming they heard trayvon cry out just before the gunshot
we have zimmerman who has still not been charged with a single damn thing a month after trayvon has died
gee it's all so confusing i guess we'll never know what really happened so let's stop crucifying zimmerman ok
your right. we have all the information we need. who needs a trial, lets just go kill the fucker. maybe claim self defense
QuoteWhen a defendant claims self-defense, "the State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense." In other words the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt never shifts from the prosecution, so it's surprisingly easy to evade prosecution by claiming self-defense.
This has led to some stunning verdicts in the state. In Tallahassee in 2008, two rival gangs engaged in a neighborhood shootout, and a 15-year-old African American male was killed in the crossfire. The three defendants all either were acquitted or had their cases dismissed, because the defense successfully argued they were defending themselves under the "stand your ground" law.
Good Lord Almighty. Remind me never to go to Florida ever.
we have zimmerman's 911 call where he says he's going after trayvon
we have trayvon's call to his girlfriend where he says he was just chased by zimmerman, then we hear their conversation ("what are you following me for?" "what are you doing here), then we hear the fight
we have multiple witnesses claiming they heard trayvon cry out just before the gunshot
we have zimmerman who has still not been charged with a single damn thing a month after trayvon has died
gee it's all so confusing i guess we'll never know what really happened so let's stop crucifying zimmerman ok
your right. we have all the information we need. who needs a trial, lets just go kill the fucker. maybe claim self defense
QuoteWhen a defendant claims self-defense, "the State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense." In other words the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt never shifts from the prosecution, so it's surprisingly easy to evade prosecution by claiming self-defense.
This has led to some stunning verdicts in the state. In Tallahassee in 2008, two rival gangs engaged in a neighborhood shootout, and a 15-year-old African American male was killed in the crossfire. The three defendants all either were acquitted or had their cases dismissed, because the defense successfully argued they were defending themselves under the "stand your ground" law.
Good Lord Almighty. Remind me never to go to Florida ever.
holy shit
Wait, it just hit me. You could legally have a pistol duel in Flordia
But even more than cars, he was concerned about black men on foot in the neighborhood. In August 2011, he called to report a black male in a tank top and shorts acting suspicious near the development's back entrance. "[Complainant] believes [subject] is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states. The suspect, Zimmerman told the dispatcher, fit a recent description given out by law enforcement officers.
Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. "[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area," he told the dispatcher.
And last month, on Feb. 2, Zimmerman called to report a suspicious black man in a leather jacket near one of the development's units. The resident of that townhouse, Zimmerman told dispatch, was a white male. Police stopped by to investigate, but no one was there, and the residence was secure.
Gun reform needs to happen but the gun fucknuts get their panties in a twist when the democrats even come NEAR the subject.
I'm not talking about banning guns, as much as I would love to so ever dearly, but restricting them further and making laws like THAT non-existent.
dude isn't even white, he's hispanic.
oh wow, only white people are capable of discrimination and bigotry. thanks, i feel a lot safer.
stand your ground only means you don't have a legal responsibility to flee, nowhere in it does lethal force come into the equation
Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"
He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.
Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"
He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.
No one said he was a saint.
What gives?
Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"
He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.
No one said he was a saint.
People are wearing hoodies as if he is some kind of martyr.
There is a small chance that zimmerman might have acted in self defense.
regardless of what happened he misused his CCW, it isn't a license to be a vigilante and seek out harmful situations.This.
He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.Obviously, character perception always helps in creating good vs. evil narratives. However, I honestly wasn't aware that the case hinged on him being a saint. These sorts of findings seem more appropriate on the campaign trail where we're trying to dig up dirt on our opponent who is six points ahead in the polls, not in trying to posthumously besmirch the character of a dead 17-year-old.
-If Zimmerman actually lost him in pursuit (as reports state) and returned to his car only to be attacked by Martin then Martin deserved to eat lead.
-If Zimmerman actually lost him in pursuit (as reports state) and returned to his car only to be attacked by Martin then Martin deserved to eat lead.
That's not what happened. Martin was being chased, he called his girlfriend, he stopped for a bit thinking he lost Zimmerman, Zimmerman confronted him.
But thanks for telling us what you found on facebook.
Everything else related to this case is just Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trying to make money. A petition to arrest Zimmerman, really? I'd like to petition for the arrest of Bush/Cheney on war crimes but I'm pretty sure Congress would tell me to pound salt. The Black Panthers should also be gutted for putting a price on someone's head. Solicitation of Murder is more serious of a crime than Zimmerman would be charged with anyway (I'm assuming it would be manslaughter)."Everything else related to the case was outrage that there wasn't even a case.
Everything else related to this case is just Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trying to make money. A petition to arrest Zimmerman, really? I'd like to petition for the arrest of Bush/Cheney on war crimes but I'm pretty sure Congress would tell me to pound salt. The Black Panthers should also be gutted for putting a price on someone's head. Solicitation of Murder is more serious of a crime than Zimmerman would be charged with anyway (I'm assuming it would be manslaughter)."Everything else related to the case was outrage that there wasn't even a case.
Also, what relevance do the Black Panthers have to this? That's pretty much the definition of a red herring.
So, yeah, I don't think it's a very good summary. Mind you, I don't think everyone needs to grab their pitchfork and throw fuel on the fire to incite more racial tension. Furthermore, I understand that some are tentative of being served crow when new facts arise, and are weary of prematurely casting judgement. However, this reads more like nonsense from people who are overeager to pretend like we're in a post-racial world.
"I don't see why so many think there's a race issue, here. Here's some distractiony nonsense that has nothing to do with anything to show that, not only was this altercation not racially-charged at all, but those that think it is are the real problems."
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
MARCH 27--With Twitter and Facebook continuing to explode with posts purporting to contain the address of George Zimmerman, property records and interviews reveal that the home is actually the longtime residence of a married Florida couple, both in their 70s, who have no connection to the man who killed Trayvon Martin and are now living in fear due to erroneous reports about their connection to the shooter.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this (http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made)) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models. :duh
Jesus man, I must be more sheltered than I thought growing up in liberal Portland. Fuckin a.. I don't even
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121003/Liam-Stacey-sent-prison-offensive-tweet-Fabrice-Muamba.html
That should put a smile on your face, Spencer. Or it may make your frown because depending on political allegiance you will consider it akin to a authoritarian police state.
I think the biggest thing here is that in summation Malcolm X was right. Look, I'm all for integration. But we integrated blacks and whites and other races without ADDRESSING those issues. It's like we said,"here, play with those people over there. You may not like them, but you'll need to bear with them." This does not contribute to open-mindedness, free thinking, or or freeing people of racial bias. It just adds fuel to the fire. Fast forward 50 years, people think we are in a post-racial land because of the civil rights act and affirmative action and it takes stuff like this for people to realize that race is still a VERY huge issue in America?
L. O. L.
I don't think people should go to jail or be fined for saying racist shit. I do think they should have to wear a clown suit and a sandwich board that says "ignorant fucker" around until they learn to be better human beings, though.
On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this (http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made)) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models. :duh
Punishing people for saying things isn't addressing the root problem of why they're saying things like that. I don't think it's much of a solution at all and would probably actually just make things worse, so I can't say I approve.
On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this (http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made)) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models. :duh
Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" :-\
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/I agree, if Sharpton and Jackson have ignored black on black crime, then they deserve to be hated. But I would think they do address it, it probably just doesn't get any press. Like when people say "why don't muslim leaders in the US condemn terrorists?", just because it doesn't get on the news and you don't look for it, doesn't mean they aren't saying it.
Finally, a man of reason. I hate Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
This inspires me to make a comic on this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120812/Shocking-Trayvon-Martin-t-shirt-bearing-rappers-crude-lyrics-sale.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120812/Shocking-Trayvon-Martin-t-shirt-bearing-rappers-crude-lyrics-sale.html)
It was revealed today that Sabrina Fulton, the boy’s mother, filed two petitions last week to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to specifically gain the rights to the phrases ‘I Am Trayvon’ and ‘Justice For Trayvon’, both of which have been frequently used by protesters across the country.
On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this (http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made)) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models. :duh
Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" :-\
Though I realize Mandark was joking in his FB post, I was really speaking of general. Though Mandark was joking, there are many who actually say things like that and mean it, but...
Fine. I'll bite. You and Mandark tell me what was wrong with what I said. Just sounds like fruit laced naïveté to me, as if to say only black people have these problems. What if Rue was cast as Arabic? There are Arabic, Indian, Asians, and Latinos with dark skin and could easily fit the description of the character. Would they REALLY be treated THAT much better if Rue wasn't cast as a girl with African origin?
If you think that you may or may not be a part of the problem.
I'm not saying this to boogie or Mandark, because you guys are better than that. I'm speaking in general. Because some people really do think this is a only a black and white issue (literally).
On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this (http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made)) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models. :duh
Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" :-\
Though I realize Mandark was joking in his FB post, I was really speaking of general. Though Mandark was joking, there are many who actually say things like that and mean it, but...
Fine. I'll bite. You and Mandark tell me what was wrong with what I said. Just sounds like fruit laced naïveté to me, as if to say only black people have these problems. What if Rue was cast as Arabic? There are Arabic, Indian, Asians, and Latinos with dark skin and could easily fit the description of the character. Would they REALLY be treated THAT much better if Rue wasn't cast as a girl with African origin?
If you think that you may or may not be a part of the problem.
I'm not saying this to boogie or Mandark, because you guys are better than that. I'm speaking in general. Because some people really do think this is a only a black and white issue (literally).
Zimmerman's defence force assemble:jesus christQuoteAnd we know this video was definitely taken that night of the shooting? Zimmerman is currently bald, etc?
smmfh
1. Zimmerman confronts Trayvon.Basically.
2. They scuffle.
3. Trayvon punches Zimmerman in the nose and he falls down and bumps his head.
4. Zimmerman is like "Screw you punk" and kills him.
5. Zimmerman gets lawyered up and a sore nose and a bump on the head become a broken nose and "he was pounding my head on the pavement".
6. 99% of the sane, non-racist public sees through this obvious bullcrap.
Watched the latest including the interview with the brother : now it's just a joke. The version of events being spun now is a joke, throwing in fingerwagging and accusing people of making it a race issue? Fucking disgusting
The officers aren't even wearing gloves...
Florida Police Warn Public Against Taking Law Into Own Hands Unless It’s That Law Specifically Designed For You To Do That
SANFORD, FL—Amidst the controversy surrounding the recent shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, the Sanford Police Department cautioned Florida residents Tuesday against taking the law into their own hands, except when following the state statute that explicitly authorizes people to do so. "Let me be clear: We do not want citizens resorting to deadly force when they believe they're being threatened—unless, of course, they are following the letter of the law, which says they can resort to deadly force when they believe they're being threatened," said interim Sanford police chief Darren Scott, referring to the state's "Stand Your Ground" rule. "Law enforcement should be left to the police. However, it can also be left to common citizens, since pursuing vigilante justice is perfectly within their legal rights. Have I made myself clear?" After being bombarded with questions about the confusing nature of the law, a flustered Scott said, "Just don't be racist and kill people, okay?
Attorneys for a Florida neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot an unarmed black teen have withdrawn as his counsel, saying they haven’t heard from him since Sunday.:S
Attorney Craig Sonner said Tuesday in a news conference that against their advice, George Zimmerman contacted the special prosecutor who will decide if he should face charges.
George Zimmerman’s former legal team on Tuesday said Zimmerman spoke off the record with Fox News’ Sean Hannity. The lawyers said Zimmerman told Hannity things that he would not tell them.:dizzy
George Zimmerman’s former lawyers said during a press conference Tuesday that they never met face to face with their client. The communication was done through phone calls and meetings with family members, they said.
George Zimmerman’s former legal defense team suggested that their former client may not be in Florida anymore. “Stop looking in Florida,” the lawyers said.
Asked about Hannity's interactions with Zimmerman, a Fox News Channel spokeswoman said the issue "will be addressed on Hannity's show tonight."
According to a Gallup survey that was cited in a german newspaper, a majority of blacks believe that Zimmerman is guilty, but only 11% of whites. I'm surprised at the low number for whites, given how the situation developed. Don't know how the survey was exactly worded though.
Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as this afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.
It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.
...
The announcement of a charge against Zimmerman would come a day after Zimmerman’s lawyers withdrew from the case, citing their inability to contact Zimmerman.
Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig Tuesday expressed concern about Zimmerman’s emotional and physical well-being, saying he has taken actions without consulting them. They also said they do not know where Zimmerman is.
“You can stop looking in Florida,” Uhrig told reporters. “Look much further away than that.”
I agree, I really don't understand* the rallying to Zimmerman aspect that's been going on. I hadn't really been paying attention to this (or much of anything due to work) until I read up on things the other day from the last few weeks to see what the big deal was.
I agree, I really don't understand* the rallying to Zimmerman aspect that's been going on. I hadn't really been paying attention to this (or much of anything due to work) until I read up on things the other day from the last few weeks to see what the big deal was.
Well, there's always going to be blatant racists who just assume that a black person having a crime perpetrated against them probably had it coming.
But as for people who tend to be a little more reasonable and less wantonly racist, I think gravitating towards Zimmerman's side of the story is really born more out of a misguided dislike of the cultural narrative. Meaning, some people I think feel a little threatened -- that black people are rallying behind this and looking to blame anyone and everyone. It's kind of the same thought process that leads some to resent any discussion of slavery or of descendants of slaves expressing resentment over that chapter of America's history. Some people just (irrationally, in my mind) don't like that that resentment might barely hit them as collateral damage.
"I'm so sick of people complaining about slavery! I'm not responsible for what my great, great grandfather did! I wasn't even alive, then! That was so far in the past! Can we just stop talking about it!"
I think that line of thought makes its way into cases like this for some. "Oh boy. Black people are going to be angry at the white man over this, and that makes me uncomfortable." And rather than moving past that and realizing that the lack of due process in regards to this case was worthy of outrage by anyone, some I think just felt compelled to proceed down the course of going "Hey, what if we examine that this isn't worthy of being outraged over at all? Maybe the narrative is all wrong, and Martin wasn't innocent. If that's true, there's no reason for racial tension at all!"
The fact that it took so long is a disgrace
Al Sharpton holding a press conference with the family. He claims the prosecution only decided to take a second look at the case due to public pressure, which is ridiculous and insulting to the prosecutors. They take their time. No, I'm not happy it took this long. But jeez this idiot can't help but make ridiculous comments.
You'd think someone would have told the family that all he does is hurt them in the court of public opinion
He claims the prosecution only decided to take a second look at the case due to public pressure, which is ridiculous and insulting to the prosecutors.How is it not true though? As far as I know there isn't new evidence which would get them to change their minds, nor do I think most cases gat second chances.
Would a not guilty verdict result in the the RACE WARZ thread becoming a reality? I want you guys to be safe. You can seek asylum in Europe if you want to but only if you promise not to murder our black teenagers, thanks.
OJ had the best defense money can buy , and he didn't kill a random kid for no reason.
If they're charging hjm with 2nd degree murder, then I would think a manslaughter conviction is the worst case scenario.
Not even a racist would want to be on a jury that let Zimmerman go, assuming the jurors identities are not kept secret.
Ladies and gentlemen, the finest legal mind of our generation.
Why the fuck would he even talk to Hannity, even worse why would Hannity talk to him? All it does is hurt his chances
This case is so polarizing, I wonder if there are actually racists out there who still hate all blacks yet can recognize at the same time Zimmerman is probably a trigger-happy loon. It doesn't seem possible...I think it's possible. Look at all the people who say "Well Zimmerman shouldn't have ever gotten out of his truck, but did you see those gangster pictures of Martin???? The kid probably deserved it"
oh, he's got a little cut on the back of his head. well, that certainly justifies killing someone.
So now that pictures of a bloody Zimmerman have been released I'm sure all you turd nuggets are going to apologize for jumping to conclusions. Right?
Yeah dude, if a dude is stopping me for nothing I'm not just going to let him.
You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.
You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.
Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.
Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.
I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?
You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.
Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.
Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.
I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?
You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.
Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.
Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.
I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?
Are you sure you aren't just a bigot though? Why not just be honest about it, we will respect you a lot more.
You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.
Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.
Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.
I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?
Are you sure you aren't just a bigot though? Why not just be honest about it, we will respect you a lot more.
Bigot? I don't think so. I think Zimmerman is 100% at fault. And no way did Martin deserve to be questioned by him in the first place.
But he was stopped and questioned and killed. I'm just wondering what I would do in that situation to avoid the ending
I'm just wondering what I would do in that situation to avoid the ending
I'm not saying I'm gonna start shit, but I'm certainly not goin to forgo my rights and allow someone to physically detain me for walking on the street.
I'm not saying I'm gonna start shit, but I'm certainly not goin to forgo my rights and allow someone to physically detain me for walking on the street.
Exactly. Some random non-popo asshole tries to detain me on the street for no reason, that motherfucker is probably gonna die or be seriously injured to the point to where he will NOT try it again on anyone. And if he makes the mistake of killing me, he'll be hunted down like an animal until he's dead by dozens of people that are not to be trifled with.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425While the article can't (and doesn't try) to excuse Zimmerman's actions it's a really great read to understand how the neighborhood felt and why they were all so paranoid. It's a great piece to discuss other aspects of the case besides race.
Further evidence that he just wanted to get home and eat his skittles.
In one recorded call, Zimmerman tells his wife and sister how to change a computer password at a credit union so they can move funds around.http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/zimmerman-tells-wife-hell-wear-hoodie-if-he-gets-bail/2012/06/18/gJQAfrfBmV_video.html
ZIMMERMAN: We could have two cars. We could have two rented cars.
SHELLIE: That’s true. The one that we’re gonna drive in.
ZIMMERMAN: Mm hmm.
SHELLIE: So leave mine home.
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.
SHELLIE: Get the one that we’re gonna drive in, and then get the SUV, I don't know if they black out SUV’s though (Voices blended, inaudible)
ZIMMERMAN: Doesn’t matter.
SHELLIE: Oh, okay. ’Cause you could always like lay down or something.
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, exactly. Well, I have my hoodie.