Author Topic: Dyack Vs. Rein FIGHT (Read 17106 times)

Wobedraggled · « **on:** July 19, 2007, 06:20:44 PM »

Dyack just signed his own death warrant.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=14759

--

According to a statement from Epic's Mark Rein sent to leading news outlets including Gamasutra, the Unreal Engine 3 creator is the subject of a lawsuit from licensor Silicon Knights, presumably regarding UE3-utilizing Xbox 360 title Too Human.

Rein's statement, sent out to the media this afternoon, reads as follows: "This morning we were served with a lawsuit by Silicon Knights. We believe the claims against us are unfounded and without merit and we intend to fully defend against them."

The Epic VP continues: "We'd love to tell you more about it but unfortunately our lawyers want us to save our comments for the courthouse so we're going to do our best to comply with their wishes."

He concludes: "In that vein we'd appreciate if our friends in the industry and media would refrain from asking us about the suit because we're only going to say "no comment". We just wanted to share the news directly before the rumor mill starts churning."

Representatives from Silicon Knights were not immediately available for comment, but Gamasutra will update this story when more information about the contents of the lawsuit are made available.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:22:38 PM »

Silicon Knights too incompetent to make a good-looking game with Unreal Engine 3; sues creators. Good job.

y2kev · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:24:21 PM »

I want to see the legal briefing. I bet the header is something like:

"Knowing none but savage ways, a Brute."

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:26:21 PM »

SK has the biggest case of not-our-faultitis of any B-grade developer I've ever seen.

Between selling them and selling Rare, Nintendo made a lot of good acquisitions last gen.

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:27:55 PM »

So is this the sound of Dyack imploding? Wow

TVC15 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:29:21 PM »

No matter what they are suing over, SK is done after this. Nobody is going to want to touch them. No publishers will want to work with them, big companies like Nintendo or MS will no longer want to fund them. They are dead. Done. Kaput. They just bit the hand of one of the most important companies in gaming.

demi · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:37:08 PM »

Dyack replies back

Quote

"We stand behind everything in our complaint and believe it is highly unfortunate that Epic forced us into this situation. We would rather spend our time focusing on making great games, but as stated in our complaint, Epic simply refuses to acknowledge the inadequacies of the Unreal Engine 3 code it provides to its licensees," he said, "and refuses to accept the fact that its code has caused serious damage not only to Silicon Knights, but a number of other developers in the industry. We look forward to successful resolution of our claims in this court proceeding."

y2kev · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:37:39 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on July 19, 2007, 06:29:21 PM

No matter what they are suing over, SK is done after this. Nobody is going to want to touch them. No publishers will want to work with them, big companies like Nintendo or MS will no longer want to fund them. They are dead. Done. Kaput. They just bit the hand of one of the most important companies in gaming.

sega

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:47:32 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on July 19, 2007, 06:29:21 PM

No matter what they are suing over, SK is done after this. Nobody is going to want to touch them. No publishers will want to work with them, big companies like Nintendo or MS will no longer want to fund them. They are dead. Done. Kaput. They just bit the hand of one of the most important companies in gaming.

Dyack is certainly done for. I would also probably go ahead and either quit (if the finances were ok personally) or start looking for a new job ASAP if I worked there.

Wobedraggled · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2007, 06:51:02 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on July 19, 2007, 06:29:21 PM

No matter what they are suing over, SK is done after this. Nobody is going to want to touch them. No publishers will want to work with them, big companies like Nintendo or MS will no longer want to fund them. They are dead. Done. Kaput. They just bit the hand of one of the most important companies in gaming.

No SK Wii games, I weep.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:07:02 PM »

And yes, Frag has it right, if you are working there you should get the HELL OUT OF DODGE now

demi · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:10:45 PM »

Coincidence that just recently he said he would gladly jump to Wii? lol

Himu · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:21:57 PM »

Silicon Knights sucks.

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on July 19, 2007, 06:26:21 PM

SK has the biggest case of not-our-faultitis of any B-grade developer I've ever seen.

SK is C-grade.

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:49:46 PM »

Microsoft tossed them a big fat drop-dead timeline for the game probably a few weeks ago after they fessed up to not having poop for E3, I bet. This is desparation at its very worst-truly the only thing that would be sadder is if Dyack assaulted Epic's Coke machine.

TVC15 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:51:38 PM »

Like I said in that thread, Frag, they laughed at me when I compared Dyack to Smart.

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:53:24 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on July 19, 2007, 07:51:38 PM

Like I said in that thread, Frag, they laughed at me when I compared Dyack to Smart.

I didn't see that yet, but yeah the comparison is perfect.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:56:58 PM »

Doesn't Dyack post on gaf? I would assume gaf serves him some shit anytime his name comes up.

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:01:24 PM »

Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on July 19, 2007, 07:56:58 PM

Doesn't Dyack post on gaf? I would assume gaf serves him some shit anytime his name comes up.

Hes posted on occasion (when his name comes up)

demi · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:03:05 PM »

After the Bell incident I'm sure Dyack is avoiding GAF in fear of his info being posted

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:06:47 PM »

seriously, though, I dunno what Dyack is doing. this is going to kill the company.

the sad thing is--as crazy as he is--I think he knows that. which means that this move was seen as PREFERABLE to trying to finish the game...ever.

wow, SK siphons money, delivers subpar product years too late, who could have seen this coming except everyone ever

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #20 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:16:46 PM »

I think SK is just some front development company that allows Dyack to launder his opium money

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #21 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:21:56 PM »

the sad ? thing is, even if SK had a case, it doesn't matter. they are now anathema.

TVC15 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:23:25 PM »

Even if they win the case, no publisher will ever want to touch them. MS can't be happy that they just stirred shit in the family, and I doubt any other publisher will want to roll these shitty dice again.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #23 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:25:15 PM »

yeah I mean, business is shitty and lots of shit is shit

BUT IT STAYS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS

nobody likes a snitch!

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:26:16 PM »

The best possible side effect of this story would be if notable GAF loser ARK-AMN killed himself out of depression when SK goes under from this.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:27:40 PM »

I've been hating SK since before hating SK was cool!

TVC15 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on July 19, 2007, 08:25:15 PM

yeah I mean, business is shitty and lots of shit is shit

BUT IT STAYS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS

nobody likes a snitch!

Exactly. I look at the GAF thread and see people saying shit like SK HAS A CASE! EPIC MISSED DEADLINES. Working in software, I see that shit happens all the goddamned time. It's standard business for software, and up until now, nobody in gaming has gotten sued because some especially shitty developers couldn't work around the issue.

SK, as far as the software industry goes, has no real case. The shit they cited is all par for the course.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:35:12 PM »

It would be funny if everytime someone I worked with missed a deadline I sued them.

I know I said I would watch Dexter but I haven't yet! Please don't sue me!

The Sceneman · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:41:23 PM »

I like Eternal Darkness. What other games are SK responsible for?

demi · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:42:17 PM »

Quote from: Scenester on July 19, 2007, 08:41:23 PM

I like Eternal Darkness. What other games are SK responsible for?

Legacy of Kain Blood Omen (PC / PSX)
Twin Snakes (GCN)

demi · « **Reply #30 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:44:41 PM »

UE3 is difficult for some devs though

Midway has a team dedicated just for UE3

The Sceneman · « **Reply #31 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:55:14 PM »

Quote from: Billy Rygar on July 19, 2007, 08:42:20 PM

Dyack's complaint goes into detail about the E3 showing. I knew that was where this stemmed from.
Scenester: You liked Eternal Darkness? Yeesh

Well it was broken and dumb as fuck... but I found it to be pretty enjoyable and funny

Beezy · « **Reply #32 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:08:33 PM »

I liked Eternal Darkness too. Borrowed it from a friend and played through the whole game.

TVC15 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:10:55 PM »

And it gets even more ridiculous. . .Dyack wants ALL THE PROFITS from GoW!

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #34 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:15:51 PM »

I think I understand Dyack's plan now. Instead of making a good game that will sell on their own, they decided to sue Epic to reclaim GoW's profits.

Oh Denis, you unlovable idiot you.

demi · « **Reply #35 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:19:48 PM »

Man, this is some drama I can get behind

Mupepe · « **Reply #36 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:24:57 PM »

holy shit

Oblivion · « **Reply #37 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:31:40 PM »

He wants all the profits from Gears of War? WHAT THE FUUUUCK?

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #38 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:33:55 PM »

this is almost a non-sequitur!

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #39 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:38:37 PM »

Remember Jeff Bell? Yeah, me neither!

The Sceneman · « **Reply #40 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:42:09 PM »

Internets lolz

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #41 on:** July 19, 2007, 09:57:07 PM »

Dyack is officially insane

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #42 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:07:34 PM »

DEREK DYACK

My guess is this-Dyack DID get UE3 at the same time as everyone else, but found some bugs in the code drop, asked Epic to fix them, they probably did but the next driver had some different bugs, and instead of doing what everyone else does and just fix the bugs and add features, and freeze your engine at some point, Dyack never clamped down on it to actually get his game in a servicable, testable shape where they could start adding content and testing things in.

Beezy · « **Reply #43 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:09:50 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on July 19, 2007, 09:10:55 PM

And it gets even more ridiculous. . .Dyack wants ALL THE PROFITS from GoW!

What a dumbfuck.

abrader · « **Reply #44 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:35:26 PM »

Too Human better come out - I put $5 down on it!

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #45 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:49:15 PM »

Here's the deal, does anyone remember my E3 impressions from last year?

Y'know, the ones where I came and called out Too Human as the worst game of the show. I'm serious. It had a disastrous framerate, shitty animation, wonky controls and hideous art direction. When I covered E3, I was used to sitting through some serious shit - we're talking multi-platform shovelware here (Spongebob Rapes Patrick: The Game, Bratz! The Morning After Pill, etc.) all over the floor. But Too Human was the only game that made me pity the poor goons hired to stand by and apologize for its awfulness. I didn't hate Eternal Darkness, but damn if Silicon Knights fell off my radar after that.

But the point was, that Ark dude on GAF basically threw me underneath the bus when I posted my impressions, and people believed his lies because nobody but him and I really even talked at any length about the game.

WELL FUCK YOU NOW, SIR.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #46 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:51:55 PM »

Quote from: abrader on July 19, 2007, 10:35:26 PM

Too Human better come out - I put $5 down on it!

you know it's gonna be rushed to market and filled with missing content, bugs, half-assed implementation issues, and a borked endgame. the first 3-5 hours will probably play great, and it'll fall completely apart after that, because sk doesn't know how to keep a schedule worth shit.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #47 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:53:38 PM »

HOW MANY LUNCH BREAKS CAN DYACK FIT IN A DAY

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #48 on:** July 19, 2007, 10:56:43 PM »

Man, it looks like I work harder than the guys at SK, and I was pretty sure that was impossible.

demi · « **Reply #49 on:** July 19, 2007, 11:38:07 PM »

Quote from: Willco on July 19, 2007, 10:49:15 PM

Here's the deal, does anyone remember my E3 impressions from last year?

Y'know, the ones where I came and called out Too Human as the worst game of the show. I'm serious. It had a disastrous framerate, shitty animation, wonky controls and hideous art direction. When I covered E3, I was used to sitting through some serious shit - we're talking multi-platform shovelware here (Spongebob Rapes Patrick: The Game, Bratz! The Morning After Pill, etc.) all over the floor. But Too Human was the only game that made me pity the poor goons hired to stand by and apologize for its awfulness. I didn't hate Eternal Darkness, but damn if Silicon Knights fell off my radar after that.

But the point was, that Ark dude on GAF basically threw me underneath the bus when I posted my impressions, and people believed his lies because nobody but him and I really even talked at any length about the game.

WELL FUCK YOU NOW, SIR.

Too Human > The Darkness

Yeti · « **Reply #50 on:** July 19, 2007, 11:39:30 PM »

I liked Eternal Darkness, it was mindless fun.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #51 on:** July 20, 2007, 12:52:22 AM »

The only way this makes any sense to me is that Too Human is so far behind schedule and so over budget that it was never, ever going to be released, and that an insane Hail Mary internicine lawsuit was actually perceived to be the best business decision. It's hard to imagine a project being that fucked.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #52 on:** July 20, 2007, 01:02:47 AM »

Then its a good thing you dont have to imagine this happening, as it is indeed, happening.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #53 on:** July 20, 2007, 01:08:11 AM »

"In fact, at this juncture the Silicon Knights Engine should, at a minimum, be described under the Agreement as an "Enhancement" of Epic's Engine, which, as defined by the Agreement, is technology developed by Silicon Knights that improves upon the Engine and is therefore the property of Silicon Knights. Moreover, as development of the Silicon Knights Engine continues, the amount of code from Epic's Engine employed by Silicon Knights continues to decrease. After the release of Silicon Knights' Too Human, all Epic code will be removed from the Silicon Knights Engine."

What can we learn from this statement?

1) Dyack admits that Too Human uses UE3 code. However, he doesn't think he should have to pay for it.
2) SK has made additions to the UE3 engine, or a derivative work. Dyack believes this means SK now owns the deriviative work as well as the entire original work, the UE3 engine.
3 Dyack totally promises to stop using UE3 code, soon, honest. But he's not paying for anything, okay!

y2kev · « **Reply #54 on:** July 20, 2007, 01:11:50 AM »

Unfortunately, SK will not go away and TH will be coming out.

I am enjoying the doomsayers, but I doubt anything bad will happen to SK. Sadly.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #55 on:** July 20, 2007, 01:12:58 AM »

I can't tell if the Silicon Knights apologists over at GAF are carefully disguised trolls. Really. I can't fathom why folks would rally to support Dyack.

TVC15 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 20, 2007, 01:46:45 AM »

Quote from: y2kev on July 20, 2007, 01:11:50 AM

Unfortunately, SK will not go away and TH will be coming out.

I am enjoying the doomsayers, but I doubt anything bad will happen to SK. Sadly.

Nope, this is it. Unless this turns into an I AM SPARTACUS moment, SK is dead. Nobody will want to be associated with them at all. If disputes like this arise, they are generally handled without whining to a court. Nothing out of the ordinary happened here, Denis just apparently didn't do proper research before giving the thumbs up to middleware. And now he just sank his own company.

And what with TH still being more than 6 months off (at least--I see another delay in the cards), I'd totally understand if MS pulled the plug on funding right now.

disgruntled_jojo · « **Reply #57 on:** July 20, 2007, 02:13:11 AM »

Wow, there are not words to describe how far my eyes popped out of my skull when I saw the 'GoW profits' addition to this madness. Are SK claiming that the code they've added to the UE3 engine during TH's development was re-merged back into the primary UE3 engine codebase and then shipped out in GoW without credit? Unless that's what happened, I don't see how they can possibly make a case where they pull GoW or GoW's profits into it at all. Even if it were, I'd be amazingly shocked if Epic wasn't smart enough to put some kind of provision in the licensing agreement covering the addition of licensee code back into the UE3 codebase if they had any intention of ever doing actually doing so. You don't just embark on a wacky course like that without talking to your legal department first to make sure your ass is thoroughly covered.

Either way, Goodbye SK. LoK would have been good if you'd fixed the camera, ED PARGON was PARGON asstastic PARGON, and I never played TS but from what I heard the controls were borked. I agree with the earlier poster: good riddance.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #58 on:** July 20, 2007, 02:13:46 AM »

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #59 on:** July 20, 2007, 02:14:16 AM »

Best Star Trek reference ever.

News:

Author Topic: Dyack Vs. Rein FIGHT (Read 17106 times)