We basically have Sony to thank for the Wii

[TVC15]

And thus both companies should be stricken from gaming.

If the PSP hadn't gotten soundly trounced by the DS, Nintendo probably would have actually tried to compete technically in the home market.  Sony, by not effectively competing with Nintendo on the handheld front, effectively sealed the death of console gaming.

In the end, we have the stupid consumers to blame, by and large, but Sony didn't help.  Sony enabled Nintendo's decision to produce cheap garbage at the expense of quality performance.

Fuck you Nintendo, Sony, and gamers!

[Fragamemnon]

Killing off the PS2 way before its time didn't help as well.

They should have rebranded it and wagglefied it with some seven-month shovelware first party games and a gimmick wand.

[y2kev]

Sony really didn't even try for the first year to year and a half of PSPs lifetime. Really a shame.

[Oblivion]

Heh, I made this argument before, interestingly enough.

[brawndolicious]

didn't DS also beat it to the market?  sony could have easily run DS into the ground if they were aggressive for the first year.  I don't particularly care for handheld gaming, but DS had a really bad line-up at launch.

[The Sceneman]

so did the PSP!

[Synbios459]

didn't DS also beat it to the market?  sony could have easily run DS into the ground if they were aggressive for the first year.  I don't particularly care for handheld gaming, but DS had a really bad line-up at launch.

so did the psp.

[TVC15]

PSP had a fairly decent launch lineup, actually.

Lumines, Ridge Racer, and Untold Legends were all great launch titles, and Untold Legends is the only one of those 3 that has aged negatively.

[bluemax]

so did the PSP!

PSP launch had a few decent games. MGS:Acid and Wipeout Pure were at least real fucking games. What the hell did the DS have at launch, Mario 64 and a bunch of tech demos?

The problem was that after the initial post launch drought the DS came out with a shit ton of stuff to play and the PSP had nothing still. Sony neglected it and started talking up the PS3. As an early PSP owner I hated how much time Sony spent talking about PS3 and not saying a thing about the PSP. After I wore out the launch games I think all I used my PSP for was SNES emulation until this year.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

can we blame SCEA for killing 2D gaming in the west?
and as an effect of that, killing lots of smaller developers and publishers who used to make a buck on that kinda thing.

[TVC15]

can we blame SCEA for killing 2D gaming in the west?
and as an effect of that, killing lots of smaller developers and publishers who used to make a buck on that kinda thing.

That would have largely happened on its own, anyway, but Sony can be blamed for its anti-2d practices in refusing the localization of 2d games.  The death would have happened, Sony or no, but they certainly didn't help things.

[Mondain]

errrrr, no, from what I remember reading Yamauchi had plans for the Wii (new gaming interface while spending nothing on hardware) years ago

[TVC15]

errrrr, no, from what I remember reading Yamauchi had plans for the Wii (new gaming interface while spending nothing on hardware) years ago

And I bet in the original plans, they planned on it having modern visuals, but after Sony let the DS win, they realized they didn't need them.

[Mondain]

nope, i should try to get the original link containing Yamauchi's declaration

what you're alluding to is completely immaterial when it comes to the Wii's arrival

[The Sceneman]

I stand corrected. Lumines and Wipeout

[TVC15]

nope, i should try to get the original link containing Yamauchi's declaration

what you're alluding to is completely immaterial when it comes to the Wii's arrival

I see no reason why Nintendo would think going low tech was a good idea before the DS was a huge success, trumping Sony.

[Mondain]

things seem to have come to a huge turnover since the PSP Slim's release, in Japan hardware PSP sales are rising to very high levels and compete with the DS

the PSP now hosts that iconic game in the form of Crisis Core

[TVC15]

A Square game, probably nearly better than Nintendo Dogs!

[y2kev]

PSP had a fairly decent launch lineup, actually.

Lumines, Ridge Racer, and Untold Legends were all great launch titles, and Untold Legends is the only one of those 3 that has aged negatively.

I can't think of anything really WOW until like March 2006ish after that. Maybe I'm forgetting some stuff.

[Phoenix Dark]

Nintendo was going to go in an opposite direction regardless due to the failure of the N64 and so called failure of the Gamecube Nintendo, the best console of last gen. Honestly they did the right thing in terms of hardware. The PS3 is a failure, and the Xbox 360 won't make a considerable profit when all is said and done.

The problem is the software, not the hardware per se. While better graphics could have been achieved for $250 a system, Nintendo's failure lies in the fact that they still haven't given us a reason for waggle.

[TVC15]

The Wii will always be a failure in the hardware department.  It doesn't matter how good the games are; if I want to play it, it has to be on a ghetto TV because of how shitty the hardware is.

[Synbios459]

TVC what did you think of Kirby Canvas Curse?

[Phoenix Dark]

Graphics =! quality game

The Wii's graphics can get better. I'm waiting for a game to prove that the waggle is worth the shitty graphics.

[Synbios459]

Graphics =! quality game

The Wii's graphics can get better. I'm waiting for a game to prove that the waggle is worth the shitty graphics.

:kylielaff

[TVC15]

TVC what did you think of Kirby Canvas Curse?

I liked it quite a bit.

Graphics =! quality game

The Wii's graphics can get better. I'm waiting for a game to prove that the waggle is worth the shitty graphics.

No they can't.  Wii will always look terrible in 720p. 

[Phoenix Dark]

i can't believe i'm being forced to defend the wii  :'(

[TVC15]

Why are you bothering to argue that the graphics will look better?  They will never be acceptable to people that don't have non-ghetto TVs.  Some PS2 games upscaled on PS3 look better than Wii titles.

[Smooth Groove]

TVC, you have no right to complain about the PSP since you don't even buy games for it anymore.  It'll be hypocritical to ignore that fact after all the crap we gave Jotaro for pirating 360 games. 

[Synbios459]

It's just amazing how all 3 company's have managed to royally fuck up one way or another:

Nintendo:
1. No HD.
2. No DD.
3. Stupid waggle gimmick that has rarely been used well.
4. No decent storage system.
5. Shitty online.

Microsoft:
1. Unreliable system that ends up breaking half the time yet won't fix.
2. Stupid BC.
3. Multiple SKUs.

Sony:
1. WAY overpriced.
2. Stupidly decided to remove good PS2 BC.
3. Shitty sixaxis that looses connections.
4. Multiple SKUs.

[Phoenix Dark]

The Wii's graphics can and will get better, that is the natural way of things.  Problem is they will always be way behind the curve.

Exactly. Mario looks good in 480p which isn't "ghetto" to the average person. Things will get better, but not better than the Xbox 360/PS3

[Synbios459]

The Wii's graphics can and will get better, that is the natural way of things.  Problem is they will always be way behind the curve.

Exactly. Mario looks good in 480p which isn't "ghetto" to the average person. Things will get better, but not better than the Xbox 360/PS3

The average person is dumber than me. At least I know what makes a game look good.

[TVC15]

TVC, you have no right to complain about the PSP since you don't even buy games for it anymore.  It'll be hypocritical to ignore that fact after all the crap we gave Jotaro for pirating 360 games. 

Er, I still buy PSP games.  I'm going to buy Disgaea, for example.  I may not ever put the disc in my PSP, but I will buy it.

And 480p is ghetto by modern TV standards.

[Phoenix Dark]

The average person showers once a day so I dunno, you might be at an intellectual disadvantage Flipworth

[Smooth Groove]

Stop following Demi's philosophy.  Buying 1 game for every 10 you download is still piracy.

[hyp]

The average person showers once a day so I dunno, you might be at an intellectual disadvantage Flipworth

not according to bud's thread.

[TVC15]

Stop following Demi's philosophy.  Buying 1 game for every 10 you download is still piracy.

You don't know my PSP buying habits, so shut the fuck up.  Most of the things I have pirated are things I wouldn't have paid money for anyway, or imports.  The majority of my library are rips.

[Synbios459]

The average person showers once a day so I dunno, you might be at an intellectual disadvantage Flipworth

i cant help it

[Smooth Groove]

Typical pirate response.  "i wouldn't have bought it anyways!" 

[Synbios459]

Stop following Demi's philosophy.  Buying 1 game for every 10 you download is still piracy.

You don't know my PSP buying habits, so shut the fuck up.  Most of the things I have pirated are things I wouldn't have paid money for anyway, or imports.  The majority of my library are rips.

that's what they all say:
Man: But judge! I wasn't planning on buying the new radiohead CD, I just wanted to check it out.
Judge: STFU!

[Smooth Groove]

I don't need your help, Synbios.  Stay out of my trolls. 

[TVC15]

Typical pirate response.  "i wouldn't have bought it anyways!" 

Because it's totally not the truth, right?

[Phoenix Dark]

omg this thread took a turn for the better. 

much cooler than talking about the wii

[demi]

Stop following Demi's philosophy.  Buying 1 game for every 10 you download is still piracy.

You don't know my PSP buying habits, so shut the fuck up.  Most of the things I have pirated are things I wouldn't have paid money for anyway, or imports.  The majority of my library are rips.

that's what they all say:
Man: But judge! I wasn't planning on buying the new radiohead CD, I just wanted to check it out.
Judge: STFU!

You are preeeeetty dumb

[Van Cruncheon]

Exactly. Mario looks barely passable in 480p which isn't "ghetto" to the average person. Things will get better, but not better than the original Xbox overall or even the Gamecube for image quality

Fixed.

Also, TVC buys PSP games, Smooth Groove. He probably owns more PSP games than you do PC games!

Also also, I thank PSP ROM downloading for saving me from the godawful FFT port -- saved me a trip to return it, even. I tossed that trash in the bit dumpster (where I saw 1UP's Milkman scrounging for content). What the fuck, Square!

[Van Cruncheon]

Stop following Demi's philosophy.  Buying 1 game for every 10 you download is still piracy.

You don't know my PSP buying habits, so shut the fuck up.  Most of the things I have pirated are things I wouldn't have paid money for anyway, or imports.  The majority of my library are rips.

that's what they all say:
Man: But judge! I wasn't planning on buying the new radiohead CD, I just wanted to check it out.
Judge: STFU!

given that radiohead lets you download their newest cd for free anyhow, well ...

(fuckin' circus seal)

[Trent Dole]

Killing off the PS2 way before its time didn't help as well.

They should have rebranded it and wagglefied it with some seven-month shovelware first party games and a gimmick wand.

[y2kev]

Exactly. Mario looks barely passable in 480p which isn't "ghetto" to the average person. Things will get better, but not better than the original Xbox overall or even the Gamecube for image quality

Fixed.

Also, TVC buys PSP games, Smooth Groove. He probably owns more PSP games than you do PC games!

Also also, I thank PSP ROM downloading for saving me from the godawful FFT port -- saved me a trip to return it, even. I tossed that trash in the bit dumpster (where I saw 1UP's Milkman scrounging for content). What the fuck, Square!

So awesome 

[brawndolicious]

I refuse to believe nintendo is insane enough to go with a Wii level of power without having seen that the PSP didn't sell on it's power advantage.  I know nintendo's insane, but not that insane.

[etiolate]

Killing off the PS2 way before its time didn't help as well.

Which would be MS' fault for starting another gen way too early, when the PS2 gen really hadn't even peaked in my opinion.  Judging by sales, I'd say consumers agree.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Which would be MS' fault for starting another gen way too early, when the PS2 gen really hadn't even peaked in my opinion.

In retrospect Sony should've delayed the PS3 another 12-18 months to add more RAM, buff up the GPU, cut costs and create better development tools.  But that's hindsight.  As it was they took 6.5 years between console releases and I'm sure the extra 1.5 over the typical 5-year cycles of the past made them nervous enough.

[balikeye]

Killing off the PS2 way before its time didn't help as well.

Which would be MS' fault for starting another gen way too early, when the PS2 gen really hadn't even peaked in my opinion.  Judging by sales, I'd say consumers agree.

Nail on the head!

I think MS knew that they needed the jump start to gain a bigger share of the pie, but I think the HD gen started around 2-4 years too early. I think a lot of people around here are really over estimating the importance of HD to the average consumer. It has only begun to start gaining traction and it's been out for quite sometime (for electronic tech). To go along with the sticker shock of HD products and accessories...I think the average consumer is still looking to get the tv before getting a game system. The 360 and PS3 tried to push a tech that wasn't ready for mass consumption quite yet.

[brawndolicious]

I think the 360 was originally designed to be an SD system because the size of the edram was perfect for SD graphics but then they realized they'd really need to make it HD and so they split the 360 into 2 SKU's where one has component/composite cables and the other just has composite.

[brawndolicious]

I heard they were originally targeting 640X480 with 4X AA.

[TVC15]

That wouldn't make sense.  When designing the 360 started, the HD standard was still due to take effect in 2008 or 2009, so it would have been, well, backwards thinking (see Nintendo) to make an SD system that was to last 4+ years.

[Van Cruncheon]

the 360 was always designed to support hd. hell, they'd even hoped to have the original xbox support 720p resolutions when there was like maybe five 720p-capable tv sets in all of america

[brawndolicious]

Well if they made the edram memory enough for 720P 4X AA, it would probably cost too much so I may be wrong.

There were like 5 xbox games that were 720P such as soul caliber 2.

[brawndolicious]

whoa, really?  last I checked (around the time SC2 came out) I saw 5.

[tiesto]

Any place we can get a list of what Xbox 1 games support 720p? I'm actually kinda curious.

[MCD]

Any place we can get a list of what Xbox 1 games support 720p? I'm actually kinda curious.

http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/index.php?s=8cef8641cea74b6026510651585c3f03&autocom=custom&page=xboxa

[Van Cruncheon]

Well if they made the edram memory enough for 720P 4X AA, it would probably cost too much so I may be wrong.

do you even understand how aa works? the 360 has enough edram for 720p with 4x aa.