FoC's Ron Paul Shitheap: Patel Melts the Internets starting on pg. 24

[TVC15]

I like how he managed to get in a dig on illegal immigrants on that health care question, like that's even 1/10th of a percent of what's wrong with health care.

I like how the solution isn't to get them insured, so that they can get preventative care and avoid costly ER trips, but to deny them care when they get to the ER.

If an uninsured Mexican walks in coughing blood, send them on their way!  That's how to bring down costs!  I'm amazed more people aren't jumping on this bandwagon.

I'm sure doctors, you know, human beings that aren't really motivated by money or profit, would have absolutely NO ETHICAL QUALMS with turning away people at the ER!  This will be the most illuminated period in civilized history since that wonderful plague thing they had in Europe all those years back!

[FlameOfCallandor]

So I realized today that I might be taking the whole election thing a little seriously. I really believe that Ron Paul is the best candidate and I hope he wins, but i need to chill out about it. I was obsessing over the most trivial Ron Paul news story. This in addition to an internet addiction is making me feel like a social invert now that i don't have college to help me out. I'm probably not going to be posting much here anymore. I took my internet cable out of my apartment and my roommate is canceling the internet next month. We'll see if I can really keep away.

I still think cheebs is going to soundly loose that bet.

[Barry Egan]

Chicken! I smell a chicken!

[brawndolicious]

bump.

[FlameOfCallandor]

All of you dems that support Hillary, Obama or Edwards you are supporting the war. None of these candidates has pledged to bring the troops home as quickly as Ron Paul. And if you think we are helping them or some shit, watch this.

This is what we are doing in Iraq.
[youtube=425,350]lJC1unnuwds[/youtube]

[brawndolicious]

okay, show me the youtube videos of what happens when we leave iraq.

[FlameOfCallandor]

okay, show me the youtube videos of what happens when we leave iraq.

Iraq rules itself. Hey nintenho where do you live? Let me come over and run over your car since you think that is better than self-determination.

[brawndolicious]

idiot.

most of the work being done in iraq doesn't even have to do with policing duties.  they have a large amount of the infrastructure to rebuild (water/electricity plants, etc.) and that's what the large majority of the money in iraq is being spent on.  do you believe that even after we have torn the country apart and thrown it back together, that we should just leave it alone without the ability to support itself even if there wasn't a civil war?

[Gay Boy]

Maybe FoC, just maybe many of us Democrats who are against the war don't think all troops should leave at once quickly?

Immediate pullout is growing to be less and less popular amongst democrats.

[Gay Boy]

While I am personally still against the Iraq War 100% here is some fun stuff to see how you guys respond:


Interesting to note while Americans are more upbeat about Iraq...bush's approval rating STILL goes down. 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7109.html

Democrats: Voters shifting focus from Iraq

Congressional Democrats are reporting a striking change in districts across the country: Voters are shifting their attention away from the Iraq war.

Rep. Jim Cooper, a moderate Democrat from Tennessee, said not a single constituent has asked about the war during his nearly two-week long Thanksgiving recess. Rep. Michael E. Capuano, an anti-war Democrat from Massachusetts, said only three of 64 callers on a town hall teleconference asked about Iraq, a reflection that the war may be losing power as a hot-button issue in his strongly Democratic district.

First-term Rep. Nancy Boyda (D-Kan.) — echoing a view shared by many of her colleagues — said illegal immigration and economic unease have trumped the Iraq war as the top-ranking concerns of her constituents.

In an interview with Politico, House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) attributed the change to a recent reduction of violence and media coverage of the conflict, saying there is scant evidence that more fundamental problems with the Bush administration’s policy are improving. Even so, he agreed voters are certainly talking less about the war. “People are not as engaged daily with the reality of Iraq,” Hoyer said.

The change in mood perceived by Democratic lawmakers comes as one of Congress’ most vocal war critics, Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.), returned from a trip to Iraq and told reporters Thursday that “the surge is working” to improve security, even though the central government in Baghdad remains “dysfunctional.”

On Friday, Murtha, chairman of the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, clarified his remarks. The surge, he said, “has created a window of opportunity for the Iraqi government,’’ which he added has “failed to capitalize on the political and diplomatic steps that the surge was designed to provide.”

“The fact remains that the war in Iraq cannot be won militarily, and that we must begin an orderly redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq as soon as practicable,” Murtha said.

Rep. Norm Dicks (D-Wash.), who traveled to Iraq with Murtha over the Thanksgiving break, also agrees the surge is working, adding another high-profile Democrat to the list of lawmakers who believe there has been improvement. Like Murtha, though, Dicks still favors troop withdrawal and points out that political reconciliation in Iraq has been a failure.

“There is a sense of normalcy you didn’t see before. In that sense, the surge is being successful,” Dicks said in an interview with the Seattle Times. “But there is no success on political reconciliation. From that standpoint, it’s not working.”

The apparent shift in voter intensity about Iraq, also captured in some polls, shows how dramatically the political context of the war debate has changed from last summer.

Democrats believed then that mounting public pressure would soon force Republicans to take flight from President Bush, allowing Congress to impose a more rapid end to the war on an unwilling administration. It has not happened yet, and if anything it shows Democrats are facing a stiffer challenge at year’s end than they had at the beginning to frame the public debate on their terms.

Hoyer said the public clearly backs the Democratic view of the war: that it was a major foreign policy blunder that must be ended quickly. That is true, based on dozens of public polls over the past year. The diminished attention to Iraq, moreover, could end in an instant with a new burst of violence or other unfavorable turn of events.

For now, however, Democratic leaders are reckoning with a more complex, if fragile, reality both in Iraq and their congressional districts. The military surge ordered by Bush over Democratic opposition is helping pacify pockets of Iraq, according to many official and journalistic accounts, with 175,000 U.S. troops showing at least temporary success in reducing violence and death.

Cooper, who represents a moderate Nashville-area district, said Democrats "shouldn't be against good news" in Iraq. At the same time, even military planners fear the situation could quickly worsen once U.S. troop levels are reduced, or if delicately crafted ceasefires collapse.

For now, voters appear more upbeat as the war’s progress than at any point this year. The nonpartisan Pew Research Center for the People and the Press released a report this week showing that nearly half of Americans believe the military operation is going well — an 18-point increase since February. You have to go back to the days before the last election, in 2006, to find Americans feeling this positively about the war effort.

Still, Democrats are showing no sign of backing down in their fight to demand a swift end to the war. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday said Democrats would continue to resist President Bush’s demand they immediately fully fund his $200 billion request to finance military operations. Pelosi, in a strategy backed by party leaders in both chambers, is pushing for legislation that would provide $50 billion in exchange for a commitment to end the war in about one year.

Anti-war Democrats believe that voters are simply war-weary and have made up their minds about Iraq, so it might not be as hot an issue right now.

“There used to be more [questions about Iraq]. I’m just not getting the calls,” Capuano said. “It’s not because the vehemence has gone down. Ninety percent [of my constituents] are all against the war, but most people have checked this off as a major topic.”

But the fact that Iraq might be slipping as top voter priority, coupled with clear strides in the security situation in Iraq, seems to have reduced the sense of urgency in the political debate.

In fact, Democrats are putting off further debate on the $196 billion supplemental spending bill until February. Meanwhile, Democrats are planning to shift their attention to the economy when they return next week. Democrats are considering holding an "economic summit," and the first order of business in the House will be an energy bill, aimed at elevating discussion of environmental issues.

Boyda, who beat a conservative Republican last year, said: “Generally the feeling in Kansas is get us out of the war but don't do it so fast. Do it responsibly."

The large number of anti-war Democrats, who have been frustrated by their inability to impose limits on the war or end it outright, are concerned their efforts will lose steam as they wrap up the congressional sessions.

Some of those anti-war members worry the changing environment already has had negative consequences at the presidential campaign level. “They’ve been fairly bland, certainly not bold," said Rep. Lynne Woolsey (D-Calif.), a leader in the Out of Iraq Caucus. "Probably they want to be careful — the swing voter and all that. But the swing voters want leadership.”

One House Democratic aide summed up the challenge for the leadership, and admitted that it may be a smart move for Democrats to focus on the economy since they haven't been able to deliver on Iraq.

Republicans plan to exploit any cracks they see in the Democratic message.

“Democrats made a strategic calculation last January that has proven to be dead wrong,” said Kevin Smith, a spokesman for Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio). “Their message of failure and retreat makes little sense in light of our troops’ remarkable progress, and the American people are responding to their successes.”

[Phoenix Dark]

I said the surge was working on a military level a month ago and got attacked. Whoops

But I agree with Murtha and nearly everyone else that a political victory is crucial for any substantial progress. That's where the big problem is, and who knows if it'll work

[Human Snorenado]

What about people who support Kucinich and think Paul's economic ideas are batshit insane, FoC?  What about them?

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FoC- lol constitution lol states rights

[close]

[Ichirou]

The surge is working because they've changed how they calculate deaths, violence, and assassinations.  At any rate, let's see how things go back to being chaotic as soon as the US starts pulling troops out.  It's a mess over there.

[Phoenix Dark]

The surge is working because they've changed how they calculate deaths, violence, and assassinations.  At any rate, let's see how things go back to being chaotic as soon as the US starts pulling troops out.  It's a mess over there.

Of course things will become chaotic when we leave - we're essentially a cork temporarily holding back the force of a flood. Once its removed, all hell should break loose. I'm not convinced the Iraqi military/police are able to protect their country.

[Ichirou]

The only solution is for Iraq to become a US territory, English to be made the official language, and eventually steps be taken for it to become...the 51st state.

AMURRRCA

[Phoenix Dark]

The only solution is for Iraq to become a US territory, English to be made the official language, and eventually steps be taken for it to become...the 51st state.

AMURRRCA

there is another way

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[Ichirou]

It would be cool if we could build a rocket and just send all the Muslims to Mars.

[Phoenix Dark]

Naw, keep them and send Ron Paul, FoC, and the CIA instead

[Ichirou]

They could create the ideal society.

EDIT: Actually, knowing FoC's luck, Gay Boy would probably stow away in the spaceship and ruin everything.

[FlameOfCallandor]

What about people who support Kucinich and think Paul's economic ideas are batshit insane, FoC?  What about them?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

FoC- lol constitution lol states rights

[close]

Paul's economic ideas aren't batshit insane. Kucinich is fucking distinguished mentally-challenged, his answer to problems is to throw more government money at it. Paul's is to take a step back and support individual responsibility.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

What about people who support Kucinich and think Paul's economic ideas are batshit insane, FoC?  What about them?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

FoC- lol constitution lol states rights

[close]

Paul's economic ideas aren't batshit insane. Kucinich is fucking distinguished mentally-challenged, his answer to problems is to throw more government money at it. Paul's is to take a step back and support individual responsibility.

that worked out real well in 1929

[FlameOfCallandor]

What about people who support Kucinich and think Paul's economic ideas are batshit insane, FoC?  What about them?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

FoC- lol constitution lol states rights

[close]

Paul's economic ideas aren't batshit insane. Kucinich is fucking distinguished mentally-challenged, his answer to problems is to throw more government money at it. Paul's is to take a step back and support individual responsibility.

The federal reserve caused the depression not capitalism. The government mismanagement during the 20s, which were far from an error of Laissez-faire helped eve more.

[Van Cruncheon]

paul's economic ideas ARE batshit insane. don't tell us we need to go over the whole pedantic suite of reasons the gold standard is distinguished mentally-challenged AGAIN JESUS HELL WTF

[FlameOfCallandor]

paul's economic ideas ARE batshit insane. don't tell us we need to go over the whole pedantic suite of reasons the gold standard is distinguished mentally-challenged AGAIN JESUS HELL WTF

[Mandark]

If someone was for "individual responsibility", you think they'd want to jack up the estate tax and force the sons and daughters of privilege to get real jobs.

Responsibility for thee, and not for me.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Inflation of the Money Supply, 1921-1929
http://www.mises.org/rothbard/agd/chapter4.asp


http://www.mises.org/rothbard/agd/contents.asp Patel's and Drinky's reading list.

[FlameOfCallandor]

If someone was for "individual responsibility", you think they'd want to jack up the estate tax and force the sons and daughters of privilege to get real jobs.

Responsibility for thee, and not for me.

How is that individual responsibility? If rich people want to give their kids money then its their own deal. What you are saying is the opposite of individual responsibility. What you are saying is that people shouldn't do what they want with their money so government should decide for them.

[Mandark]

Oh, chasquido!  FoC found mises.org!

That place has at least one thing on his reading level.

[Phoenix Dark]

If someone was for "individual responsibility", you think they'd want to jack up the estate tax and force the sons and daughters of privilege to get real jobs.

Responsibility for thee, and not for me.

How is that individual responsibility? If rich people want to give their kids money then its their own deal. What you are saying is the opposite of individual responsibility. What you are saying is that people shouldn't do what they want with their money so government should decide for them.

Eh, I think he was talking more about the free pass rich folks get with the weak estate tax. But I'd assume you'd reject that notion since you don't want to see tax increases on/for anything correct?

[FlameOfCallandor]

If someone was for "individual responsibility", you think they'd want to jack up the estate tax and force the sons and daughters of privilege to get real jobs.

Responsibility for thee, and not for me.

How is that individual responsibility? If rich people want to give their kids money then its their own deal. What you are saying is the opposite of individual responsibility. What you are saying is that people shouldn't do what they want with their money so government should decide for them.

Eh, I think he was talking more about the free pass rich folks get with the weak estate tax. But I'd assume you'd reject that notion since you don't want to see tax increases on/for anything correct?

It's a stupid argument for a tax. You don't want rich peoples kids to enjoy their parents money? What if the parents want their kids to enjoy the money?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

mises.org? HAHAHA

you are like the young Earth creationists who point to the Bible as their primary source. your "arguments" are depressingly tautological.

[Van Cruncheon]

oh jesus fuck, you might as well cite ayn fucking rand if you're resorting to murray rothbard. you're one strip of tin foil away from quoting mike badnarik, next.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Oh, chasquido!  FoC found mises.org!

That place has at least one thing on his reading level.

Pretty basic version of why central planning doesnt work.

[FlameOfCallandor]

mises.org? HAHAHA

you are like the young Earth creationists who point to the Bible as their primary source. your "arguments" are depressingly tautological.

Why?

[Van Cruncheon]

foc, we all went through our libertarian dogmatic phases and read half this shit -- when we were sixteen years old. then we got jobs and lived in the real world and had no more use for shallow dogma that purports to illustrate the world as simple, lacking in nuance and wholly comprehensible if we could all just agree on the rules in spite of the observable complexity

[FlameOfCallandor]

foc, we all went through our libertarian dogmatic phases and read half this shit -- when we were sixteen years old. then we got jobs and lived in the real world and had no more use for shallow dogma that purports to illustrate the world as simple, lacking in nuance and wholly comprehensible if we could all just agree on the rules in spite of the observable complexity

Why?

[Van Cruncheon]

that's not half as cute a response as you think it is.

[Mandark]

Oh, chasquido!  FoC found mises.org!

That place has at least one thing on his reading level.

Pretty basic version of why central planning doesnt work.

Totally.  I remember back in London, because the National Health Service had introduced socialized medicine, the Thatcher dictatorship made us all do calisthenics in the streets, on pain of death!



Artist's rendering of Mandark's childhood (not to scale)

[FlameOfCallandor]

that's not half as cute a response as you think it is.

It is, because your argument is dumb. It basically boils down to, it doesnt work because Im smart and It's stupid dur dur.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Totally.  I remember back in London, because the National Health Service had introduced socialized medicine, the Thatcher dictatorship made us all do calisthenics in the streets, on pain of death!

Artist's rendering of Mandark's childhood (not to scale)

In all fairness, this looks like it was written in the 30s.

[Van Cruncheon]

this is a web forum. the last thirty or so times i have given you complete, fully supported arguments you've ignored them and continued mouthing your juvenile crap. if you're refusing to educate yourself beyond the few articles of faith you get from your tinfoil hatter meet-ups in ron paul country, then you don't deserve much more than argumentum ad authoritatum. enjoy!

[Van Cruncheon]

Totally.  I remember back in London, because the National Health Service had introduced socialized medicine, the Thatcher dictatorship made us all do calisthenics in the streets, on pain of death!

Artist's rendering of Mandark's childhood (not to scale)

In all fairness, this looks like it was written in the 30s.

lol

[FlameOfCallandor]

this is a web forum. the last thirty or so times i have given you complete, fully supported arguments you've ignored them and continued mouthing your juvenile crap. if you're refusing to educate yourself beyond the few articles of faith you get from your tinfoil hatter meet-ups in ron paul country, then you don't deserve much more than argumentum ad authoritatum. enjoy!

I have responded to your shit. God knows why, all you do is troll. For all I know you are a Ron Paul fan. You just chose to be a dick because your real life is even shittier than your online trolling persona.

[Mandark]

In all fairness, this looks like it was written in the 30s.

...

Dot dot dot

ellipsis

[FlameOfCallandor]

In all fairness, this looks like it was written in the 30s.

...

Dot dot dot

ellipsis

Soo they were of course a little sensationalist because that shit really was happening. You know Nazi Germany...


Dot dot dot

[Mandark]

Yes, when they made that in the thirties.

[Van Cruncheon]

foc, you haven't responded with anything resembling a coherent argument. at best, we get the above -- crazy pseudo-academic missives from the libertarian kooketeer econ a-squad. at worst, we get a ron paul stump video. never do we get a response in your own words that shows that you have considered and evaluated anything rationally; no, we get chapter-and-verse from whatever libertarian bible you're hewing to this week.

[Van Cruncheon]

In all fairness, this looks like it was written in the 30s.

...

Dot dot dot

ellipsis

Soo they were of course a little sensationalist because that shit really was happening. You know Nazi Germany...


Dot dot dot

omg lol

[FlameOfCallandor]

foc, you haven't responded with anything resembling a coherent argument. at best, we get the above -- crazy pseudo-academic missives from the libertarian kooketeer econ a-squad. at worst, we get a ron paul stump video. never do we get a response in your own words that shows that you have considered and evaluated anything rationally; no, we get chapter-and-verse from whatever libertarian bible you're hewing to this week.

Your mad because I cite sources?

[Mandark]

I love how expressive Faceless Oppressed Citizen is in this one.

I think it captures how I feel sometimes when I read FoC's posts.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm not a very good writer, especially when things get emotional. It's easier to like or quote something i have read.

[FlameOfCallandor]

(Image removed from quote.)

I love how expressive Faceless Oppressed Citizen is in this one.

I think it captures how I feel sometimes when I read FoC's posts.

That picture reminds me of Drinky. "Their is no room for differnce of opinion"


 Yup thats him.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

you're not a very good thinker, either

[Phoenix Dark]

Why are you guys continuing to validate this nonsense?

[Mandark]

FoC: But that can't be Drinky!  He wasn't alive when they made that...






in the 1930's.

[FlameOfCallandor]

you're not a very good thinker, either

Awesome response!!!!

[FlameOfCallandor]

Why are you guys continuing to validate this nonsense?

What nonsense?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

In order to prove the importance of free thinking, here are some links to Ron Paul-approved websites

[Van Cruncheon]

FoC: But that can't be Drinky!  He wasn't alive when they made that...






in the 1930's.

<nervous look> ...right...right...

[Phoenix Dark]

In order to prove the importance of free thinking, here are some links to Ron Paul-approved websites

Reminds me of the LaRouche supporter who causes trouble outside the library on campus. I forgot what we were debating, but he told me the ADL wasn't a good source of information since it was run by "Jewish mobsters". He then proceeded to give me a bunch of links to Larouche affiliated websites, books, and pamphlets