FoC's Ron Paul Shitheap: Patel Melts the Internets starting on pg. 24

[Human Snorenado]

So, because Ichirou is a fucking psycho the other Ron Paul thread is now locked.  This is a Bad Thing, as it will no doubt lead to FoC shitting up otherwise completely readable threads with Ron Paul nonsense.

So here you go, FoC.  A home for your inanity and dumbness.  Please keep it here.

And Ichirou.  STFU.

[FlameOfCallandor]

 :santocry

[Gay Boy]

ROOOON PAUL!

[Ichirou]

So, because Ichirou is a fucking psycho the other Ron Paul thread is now locked.  This is a Bad Thing, as it will no doubt lead to FoC shitting up otherwise completely readable threads with Ron Paul nonsense.

So here you go, FoC.  A home for your inanity and dumbness.  Please keep it here.

And Ichirou.  STFU.

The other Ron Paul thread was a complete waste.  FoC posted shit, everybody trolled him.  Repeat ad nauseaum.

[FatalT]

I'm voting for Stephen Colbert.

Ron Paul looks like a shriveled up raisin. He could have a heart attack at any minute!

[Gay Boy]

I'm voting for Stephen Colbert.

You live in SC?

[FatalT]

You live in SC?

Yup!

[Gay Boy]

You live in SC?

Yup!

Then you win at life!

[Human Snorenado]

:santocry

WTF?  I did you a FAVOR, son.  Sure I did it in an insulting manner, but still.

[Human Snorenado]

The other Ron Paul thread was a complete waste.  FoC posted shit, everybody trolled him.  Repeat ad nauseaum.

I fail to see what's bad about this.

[Ichirou]

The other Ron Paul thread was a complete waste.  FoC posted shit, everybody trolled him.  Repeat ad nauseaum.

I fail to see what's bad about this.

I was actually hoping for legitimate discussion about the candidate's strengths and failings other than bullshit hypothetical strawman arguments about how Ron Paul would have handled the civil rights movement if he'd been president in the sixties.  Sorry if you think I'm a fucking psycho but I decided to kill that thread and I did it in the way that amused me the most, by making lame jokes about the person mostly responsible for shitting up that thread in the first place.

[Gay Boy]

Well I want a topic to discuss the logical stances and ideals of Mike Gravel then but you can't get always get what you want.

[Ichirou]

Well I want a topic to discuss the logical stances and ideals of Mike Gravel then but you can't get always get what you want.

Start one.  Nothing's stopping you.  Just don't shit up other people's threads.

[Mandark]

The title change in that other thread completely threw me.  "How did I miss a 400+ reply topic?  And what happened to the old Ron Paul thread?"

*An embarrassing amount of minutes later*

"Oh..."

[Ichirou]

The title change in that other thread completely threw me.  "How did I miss a 400+ reply topic?  And what happened to the old Ron Paul thread?"

*An embarrassing amount of minutes later*

"Oh..."

To you, I actually apologize since you were one of the few people in that thread actually making serious political arguments.

[Gay Boy]

The title change in that other thread completely threw me.  "How did I miss a 400+ reply topic?  And what happened to the old Ron Paul thread?"

*An embarrassing amount of minutes later*

"Oh..."

Yeah the first post in this topic sums up what happened decently well.

[Human Snorenado]

The other Ron Paul thread was a complete waste.  FoC posted shit, everybody trolled him.  Repeat ad nauseaum.

I fail to see what's bad about this.

I was actually hoping for legitimate discussion about the candidate's strengths and failings other than bullshit hypothetical strawman arguments about how Ron Paul would have handled the civil rights movement if he'd been president in the sixties.  Sorry if you think I'm a fucking psycho but I decided to kill that thread and I did it in the way that amused me the most, by making lame jokes about the person mostly responsible for shitting up that thread in the first place.

You were looking for that... on EVILBORE?

[Gay Boy]

Or the internet period. There isn't a single logical ron paul fan on the internet (admitidly I am basing this off freaky ron paul blogs and gaf/eb). Most are delusional and think he is going to win it all.

[Ichirou]

I'm living overseas so I don't get to watch the newscasts, debates, etc.  I figured that the thread would serve the dual purpose of informing me about Ron Paul while keeping FoC from shitting up unrelated threads with Ron Paul stuff.

For what it's worth, there actually have been a number of truly great threads on EB.  I don't despise this forum like you sometimes (err, always?) seem to. I actually think this is a really great place to hang out.

Gay Boy basically set the tone for that thread in his first post there when he called Ron Paul a racist.  The efforts of a couple of people aside, that thread was basically an FoC-bashing-zone.  I put it out of its misery while poking fun at Cheebs.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Cheebs IS pretty gay.

[Gay Boy]

This topic is about me again huh? Fucking great. 

It's that hard to not talk about the "yenor" eh?

[Phoenix Dark]

OMG

i can't believe you tards make me WANT to hear FoC talk about Paul. back on topic geez

[Gay Boy]

OMG

i can't believe you tards make me WANT to hear FoC talk about Paul. back on topic geez

Agreed.

[Ichirou]

I was explaining to Triumph my motivations for locking the thread.  I'm sure you prefer to see it as an unmotivated assault instead of fessing up to the fact that you've been using that thread as your personal pissing station since day one.

From now on I'll stay out of this thread unless it's to actually talk about Ron Paul.

[Gay Boy]

[Ichirou]

Ron Paul looks like an easygoing old white dude.  Folksy, even.

[Gay Boy]

I don't think he is racist. I do think his views on states rights would have led to racists holding on to a lot of power still. Since if civil rights was decided on a state by state basis much of the south would not have accepted it in the 60's.

A strong national government is all that is powerful enough to bring about important change in society traditionally.

[Phoenix Dark]

I don't think he is racist. I do think his views on states rights would have led to racists holding on to a lot of power still. Since if civil rights was decided on a state by state basis much of the south would not have accepted it in the 60's.

A strong national government is all that is powerful enough to bring about important change in society traditionally.

You've got to be fucking joking

[Ichirou]

I don't think he is racist.

You called him a racist in your very first post in the original Ron Paul thread.  Why are you lying about it now?

[Gay Boy]

I don't think he is racist. I do think his views on states rights would have led to racists holding on to a lot of power still. Since if civil rights was decided on a state by state basis much of the south would not have accepted it in the 60's.

A strong national government is all that is powerful enough to bring about important change in society traditionally.

You've got to be fucking joking

If civil rights was done state by state like gay marriage you honestly think a state like texas would pass it in the 60's? 


Edit: Ichi that was sarcasm, I said things to piss FoC off.

[Phoenix Dark]

I don't think he is racist. I do think his views on states rights would have led to racists holding on to a lot of power still. Since if civil rights was decided on a state by state basis much of the south would not have accepted it in the 60's.

A strong national government is all that is powerful enough to bring about important change in society traditionally.

You've got to be fucking joking

If civil rights was done state by state like gay marriage you honestly think a state like texas would pass it in the 60's? 

OH I thought you were sayng they would. My bad 

I was about to get pissed

[Gay Boy]

I don't think he is racist. I do think his views on states rights would have led to racists holding on to a lot of power still. Since if civil rights was decided on a state by state basis much of the south would not have accepted it in the 60's.

A strong national government is all that is powerful enough to bring about important change in society traditionally.

You've got to be fucking joking

If civil rights was done state by state like gay marriage you honestly think a state like texas would pass it in the 60's? 

OH I thought you were sayng they would. My bad 

I was about to get pissed

Only Ron Paul and FoC would think the states handling an issue like that would have worked.

[Ichirou]

Edit: Ichi that was sarcasm, I said things to piss FoC off.

So you basically admit you were trolling that thread from the getgo.

If I say all the jokes I made a few minutes ago were just sarcasm meant to rile you up, will we be kewl again, dode?!

[Gay Boy]

Edit: Ichi that was sarcasm, I said things to piss FoC off.

So you basically admit you were trolling that thread from the getgo.

If I say all the jokes I made a few minutes ago were just sarcasm meant to rile you up, will we be kewl again, dode?!

Uh half the people in that thread were trolling ron paul to get FoC pissed off. 
And shut up about me plz. You are waaay too obsessed.

Back on topic RON PAUL POLL NUMBERS:

Quinnipiac   10/23-29/07
Paul 2%

Fox   10/23-24/07
Paul 1%

Times/Bloomberg   10/19-22/07
Paul 2%

POS (R)   10/18-21/07
Paul 2%

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://www.nypress.com/20/44/news&columns/feature2.cfm

On the hometown turf of Clinton and Giuliani, EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE has found a small but determined group who support the quixotic candidacy of Ron Paul.
By Edward-Isaac Dovere

Avery Knapp is a 28 year-old lanky, blond radiologist originally from Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif., in the last year of his residency at Lenox Hill. He is not the guy always talking politics in high school, nor the guy long drawn to iconoclastic ideology—always a conservative, he thinks he voted for Bob Dole in 1996 and knows he picked George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004. He is a committed Republican. But he never thought to vote in a primary or care much about who did.

Knapp found Ron Paul this spring while sitting in his girlfriend’s apartment in Chicago, on a week of vacation. He was surfing the web during a study break, researching monetary policy for his father. Articles about inflation and the federal reserve led him to Give Me a Break, John Stossell’s libertarian polemic, and Freedom to Fascism, a documentary by Aaron Russo in which Paul says there is “a possibility” that the private bankers of Fort Knox could have taken control of America’s wealth.

Paul, the small town Texas obstetrician turned 1988 Libertarian presidential candidate turned Republican congressman turned 2008 GOP presidential primary phenomenon, has found an encouraging and unexpectedly large groundswell of supporters around the country, many of them like Knapp. A staunch Constitutionalist, he has appealed to both the anti-tax right and the anti-war left who might otherwise be left on the fringe of the Republican and Democratic parties.

Knapp liked Paul’s economic message. The rising cost of health care had bothered him for years, and Paul’s anti-government, free market insistence seemed like the right solution. And the more he thought about things, the more he felt himself drawn to Paul’s non-interventionist foreign policy approach. To his girlfriend’s satisfaction, he changed his mind about the Iraq War, which he had once strongly supported.

On May 12, he founded the New York City Ron Paul MeetUp group with his sister and a friend, becoming the unofficial but acknowledged leader of a local Ron Paul movement growing larger by the day. Both Rudolph Giuliani and Hillary Clinton call New York home, and most New Yorkers not backing either of them for president are still holding out hope that Michael Bloomberg will get into the race. But for Knapp and the hodgepodge group of professionals, performance artists and political neophytes pledging their time, energy and passion to the effort, Paul is the only candidate who matters.

Paul’s supporters can mouth many of his positions like memorized lyrics to old favorite songs—at least in part. Not only would their candidate lower taxes, but he would also abolish the Internal Revenue Services along with much of the rest of the federal government. Not only would he bring troops home from Iraq, but he would also bring them home from anyplace they are stationed outside the borders of the count. The MeetUp group has already had more than 50 events, watching their candidate on television, handing out fliers at the Staten Island ferry, in front of television studios and whatever else they can find to do to spread Paul’s message. Against the black roof of an East Village building, they have painted the words “Google Ron Paul” in thick white letters, hoping to grab the attention of airplane passengers high overhead. They have donated what they can, pouring in money in donations large and small, reconditioning computers to use in the makeshift office they have set up in what was the box office of their Chelsea headquarters, when it was a club.

The rest of the voters, Knapp believes, will soon come around as well.

“Either they’re going to be apathetic or they’re going to get on the Ron Paul train,” Knapp says.

Paul has generated more interest and support than he ever seemed to imagine possible, but, as even he and his most ardent supporters will let slip in less guarded moments, he is not a top tier candidate in terms of his position in the polls. Knapp believes this will change, but not just by Paul campaigning around the country. The change will come from people like him and the others who come to the rallies and events, gathering together and spreading the word themselves.

“Word of mouth is key,” Knapp says. “Every Ron Paul supporter tells more people about it—it’s not like they keep it a secret.”

Across the country and even the world, 1,083 Ron Paul MeetUp groups have formed, more than for any other presidential candidate, of either party. The largest is in Austin, Texas, not far from the coastal district Paul calls home. With 775 members at last count, New York City’s ranks second.

Paul himself said he and his campaign workers have been taken aback not only by how many voters are responding to his message, but also by who those people are and how they are coming to hear it and how quickly they have mobilized. His e-campaign coordinator, Justine Lam, was one of the first staffers hired, but nonetheless, Paul says never would have predicted how people have attached themselves to his candidacy after reading web posts or YouTube videos was something.
“Something’s going on, actually almost out of our control,” Paul said. “It’s growing spontaneously. Of course, we feed into it, and yet I would say 80 percent of the campaign has been a spontaneous, grassroots effort and it’s almost difficult to understand, even from our viewpoint.”

In typical libertarian fashion Paul is a major proponent of the Internet. But the 72 year-old country doctor was not one to frequent the social networking sites that have made his campaign such a surprise mobilization success, as well as generating the millions in campaign donations that have put him ahead of several of his Republican competitors, including Arizona Sen. John McCain, the once-frontrunner. “I don’t look at all those,” Paul says. “I’ve always used the internet, but not with MeetUps and Facebooks and all these things that I wasn’t that much aware of.”

Those drawn into Paul’s New York campaign include some with ties and collar stays, others with tattoo wrapped arms and lip studs. There are policy wonks and whiners, lost soul weirdoes and straight-laced professionals. A roomful of Ron Paul supporters, gathered at a bar to watch a Republican debate or at the warped-floorboard loft in Chelsea they now call their campaign headquarters, looks barely distinct from any group of New Yorkers out for the night.

About 40 of them gathered Sept. 27 at Café 81, a posh East Village hotspot to watch the six Republican candidates who had agreed to attend the debate that night at Baltimore’s Morgan State University.

There was William Slippey, a web designer, who at 30, had never voted before. There was Justin Glynn, who had served eight years in the army in Iraq and Israel, “an aspiring green energy consultant” who voted for Ralph Nader in 2004 who believes Paul’s stance on the Middle East is the only one with the proper sense of history and understanding. There was Autumn Wark, a mixed media artist who sells her work on the street of SoHo—and also described herself as an aspiring screenwriter, a dancer/choreographer and a personal trainer. She raised three children as Democrats in a one bedroom apartment without medical insurance, she said. But no candidate had ever inspired her before—“giving me wet dog crap and dry dog crap is not a choice,” she said. She switched her registration to Republican to vote for Paul in the primary.

“International conspiracy theorists and blue blood lawyers—people who never would have rubbed shoulders before,” said Sam Russo, a criminal defense lawyer from Brooklyn, of the crowd gathered that night.

They jeered at Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback, then still in the race, as he told tales of spending nights in jail to commune with the incarcerated experience. When a waft of marijuana smoke floated in from the back, they giggled like adolescents, one asking several around him whether they smelled what he smelled. They drank beers, laughed, talked about work, getting so loud over the course of the night that at points, the debate itself got lost in the noise.

But each time Paul was asked a question, they went into hushed silence.

At Morgan State, many of Paul’s comments cued applause. In the bar, all did. His opposition to a national identity card got the biggest response; his insistence that the country legalize drugs also did well. Cheers also followed some of the smaller philosophical points, as when Paul declared that the District of Columbia only get a voting member of Congress through a Constitutional amendment. That pronouncement prompted a broad-shouldered man in his twenties to lead the crowd, snapping his fingers and pointing at the screen, screaming: “Yeah!”

At the end of the evening, Knapp mute the televisions and stood at the edge of the bar as he exhorted supporters to donate more money to the campaign. “I think you’ll get a good return on your investment,” he said, “particularly if we eliminate the 16th Amendment, the income tax amendment.”

The crowd cheered. Knapp smiled.

“To freedom!” Knapp shouted.

The people in the bar were not the only ones Knapp has helped convince. His whole family supports Paul now, as does his girlfriend. They both watched the Oct. 9 Republican debate—he at Proof on East 20th with an even larger group than the last one that had come despite the pouring rain, she while visiting her family in Los Angeles. When, 28 minutes in, Paul had been thus far been given only one chance to speak, Knapp proudly displayed a text message on his cell phone from her: “Why aren’t they asking Ron Paul more questions?”

The last six months have been a political awakening period for Knapp. The man who once did not know much about libertarianism or politics now speaks to campaign headquarters regularly, and calmly corrects those who call him and Paul libertarians, rather than Constitutionalists.

Several in his MeetUp group suggest that no matter what happens in the primaries, they think Knapp will soon be running for office himself.

Knapp smiles at the thought.

“I may have a career as a radiologist, and that’s fine. I may do something political, that’s fine, too,” he said, then paused, reconsidering. “It wouldn’t surprise me if I got involved.”

After watching the Oct. 9 debate, the group gathered for another strategy session. As Bill Buran, the MeetUp group’s volunteer media coordinator, encourages them to continue spreading the word and donating online, Knapp slips behind a curtain with his cell phone. When he reemerges, he has exciting news. That was the national campaign office, he tells them. All is confirmed: Paul will be in town that weekend, and he will join them for a party at the new campaign headquarters just after 10 PM.

So they gather again on Oct. 12, deep past the heart of Chelsea. West of Penn Station, west of Studio Dante, west of the massive mail sorting facility that sprawls from 28th to 30th streets along 10th Avenue, the line builds on the sidewalk outside the campaign headquarters. They fill out their paperwork. They collect their drink tickets. College students pay $25 to enter. The rest pay $100.

Paul himself arrives through a side door. He blinks in the spotlight, placing fingers from both hands on the microphone stand.

“It seems like the revolution is spreading,” he begins. “If we can do it in New York City, we can do it anywhere!”

He speaks about the success the campaign has been enjoying around the country, and they get increasingly excited. He riffs on the theme of freedom, and looks out at those who have come to support him.

“The great thing about the freedom movement is the crowds tend to be very diverse,” Paul says, each of sentences followed by a roaring cheer. “We do have some Republicans here. We have a few independents out there. We have people who have been turned on who dropped out of the system. We have a few people who were never in the system before. And we might even have a Democrat here. There may even be a few anarchists, here, and that’s all right. This is the great thing about freedom. It brings people together.”

“Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!” they chant as the candidate slips back out the side door. The music picks up again, a few guitar chords which quickly get a fast drumbeat and a supporting organ. A mix of rock and folk, the catchy tune is standard enough to blend in with the rest of the hit songs, even as the singer’s happy, Beatles-esque voice begins: “There is a doctor a healing man / Only Hope for America / He’s been teaching a better way, I thought I heard him say.

Each line of the chorus is sung twice: “Walk on the other side/Walk on the other side with liberty.”

Then comes the second verse: “Millions are working day and night/Come together now as one they fight./To take the White House and let freedom ring/Oh listen to the song they sing.”

Another chorus, then the bridge, “Calling all Americans, look now and see/ The leader that our country needs right now to stay free.”

Early the next morning, supporters line up along 42nd Street, across from Grand Central. Paul sits in the glass-enclosed restaurant of the Grand Hyatt, meeting with reporters and conferring with staff. The fans stand below, perhaps hundreds of them, waving at him and trying to zoom in on their cell phone cameras.

When all the interviews are done, he takes the escalator down to street level, ready to greet the crowd. He waits with his staff as they try to assess the situation.

“Avery!” one calls out, searching for Knapp.

He steps forward. As the New York leader, they will rely on him to lead Paul across the street and through the crowd. Those in the crowd greet the congressmman like a rock star—touching him, taking pictures of him, waving until they get his attention. Some scramble to get close. Some are content to work the edges of the crowd, leading chants.

“We love you Dr. Paul!”

“Freedom! Liberty! Peace!”

“Thank you for speaking the truth!”

“No matter what, Dr. Paul, you’re our president!” one loner screams. “We love you Mrs. Paul! Keep him strong. Feed him... soup!”

Knapp holds traffic on 42nd Street, trying to get Paul through Grand Central, on the way to his speak at the free-market Mises Institute luncheon, which Knapp will attend as well. The crowd follows. They bunch at the door as they wait for the stragglers. They pause for a moment, then they pour in, chanting his name.

“Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!” Paul himself does not seem to notice. Veering to the right, he bounds up the first set of beige marble stairs, on his way up to Métrazur. Behind him, they have poured in, hundreds of them waving their blue and red campaign signs. They fill most of the space in the main concourse between the stairs and the clock. Paul turns to face the crowd. He motions for his wife to come stand by his side.

“Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!” they scream.

The whole station has turned toward the noise. Paul grabs the thick edge of the balcony with his right hand, steadying himself, and hurls his left into the air, finger pointed.

“It is now time to end this war and bring our troops home!” Paul shouts.

The crowd roars. Paul thrusts himself forward again. “It is time to restore liberty to this country and obey the Constitution!” They cheer, stomp their feet, whistle and catcall. “It is time to make sure that we retain the right of habeas corpus and personal liberties.” Each time, the applause gets louder.

“Thank you very much for coming,” he says, slightly emphasizing the “very,” seemingly shocked, as he often seems to be, that so many people are paying attention to him and simultaneously just as shocked that many more are not.

“There is really something going on, there is truly a revolution going on in this country!” Paul shouts, hitting the first syllable of “revolution” with the flourish of a preacher.

“Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!” the crowds chants.

Then, from among them, comes a solitary voice.

“Times Square!”

They all stop, and for a moment, there is almost a hush in Grand Central. Then the crowd erupts again.

“Times Square! Times Square! Times Square!” And off they go, waving their signs and pumping their fists. As their candidate leaves for lunch, his supporters march off to spread their message on the other side of town.

[Ichirou]

Edit: Ichi that was sarcasm, I said things to piss FoC off.

So you basically admit you were trolling that thread from the getgo.

If I say all the jokes I made a few minutes ago were just sarcasm meant to rile you up, will we be kewl again, dode?!

Uh half the people in that thread were trolling ron paul to get FoC pissed off. 
And shut up about me plz. You are waaay too obsessed.

Back on topic RON PAUL POLL NUMBERS:

Quinnipiac   10/23-29/07
Paul 2%

Fox   10/23-24/07
Paul 1%

Times/Bloomberg   10/19-22/07
Paul 2%

POS (R)   10/18-21/07
Paul 2%

Funny, you keep messaging me on AIM even though I haven't replied to you in like a half hour.

Did you read the poll where basically about 50% of people weren't even aware who was running in the Republican primaries yet?  Wait till Ron Paul starts spending some of that $5 million he's got on TV ads, and you'll see his poll numbers rise.

Note that I don't expect him to win, but I wouldn't be surprised if he acted as a spoiler in the race.

[Human Snorenado]

Goddammit FoC, condense that shit.  It's too much effort for me to read the whole thing just to find something in there to troll you with.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I don't think he is racist.

You called him a racist in your very first post in the original Ron Paul thread.  Why are you lying about it now?

  Cheebs got Pwned!!

[FlameOfCallandor]

Goddammit FoC, condense that shit.  It's too much effort for me to read.

 

[Human Snorenado]

Goddammit FoC, condense that shit.  It's too much effort for me to read.

 

Way to selectively quote, shitburger.  I believe the original post said "Goddammit FoC, condense that shit.  It's too much effort for me to read the whole thing just to find something in there to troll you with."

I have no problem reading that, if it was something that interested me.  Since the only reason for me to read it is to find something to troll you with, then it's too much effort.

Christ you're dumb.

[Mandark]

If I thought Ron Paul had a legit shot at getting elected, I wouldn't be quoting an article that described his candidacy as "quixotic".

[Gay Boy]

I don't think he is racist.

You called him a racist in your very first post in the original Ron Paul thread.  Why are you lying about it now?

  Cheebs got Pwned!!

Except I never thought he was racist kiddo.

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21516892/

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

DES MOINES, Iowa - Rip Van Winkle slept for 20 years and woke to find the world had passed him by. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, woke up one morning recently to find that perhaps America has caught up with him.

Paul, 72, has had a 32-year career in the House. But some voters have just now discovered Paul’s constitutionalist, individualist, “just bring all the troops home” creed.

Last weekend in Iowa, Paul, running for the Republican presidential nomination, was greeted by 700 whooping fans at Iowa State University in Ames and another 300 at a rally in Des Moines.

There is something rather amazing about the Internet,” he told his Ames supporters, about two-thirds of whom appeared to be under age 25. “I’ve been used to delivering a message very similar to what I’m delivering tonight for many, many years and not getting a whole lot of responses. And all of a sudden, there’s a whole generation of people now very excited about hearing about the message of freedom.”

'Practically miraculous'
“I think it is practically miraculous what has happened in the last 12 months,” Paul told reporters in Ames. “Not me and not what I’ve done. But it’s miraculous to find out that there have been so many who had already been informed and were just waiting for someone to ignite these issues.”

On foreign policy, Paul told crowds in Ames and Des Moines:

“Let’s give up on nation-building and policing the world."
The Constitution mandates a policy of non-intervention. “That means: mind our own business.”
He’d pull troops from Iraq and everywhere else. “Don’t you think 55 years is long enough to be in Korea?”
He also denounced the idea of bombing Iran to prevent the potential of the Tehran regime acquiring a nuclear weapon, which he sees as no threat to the United States or Israel.
“Israel would be better off” and the Israelis "could take care of themselves” if the United States ended its alliance with Israel, he said during a weekend meeting with several Christian pastors from across Iowa.

No Ron Paul speech is complete without a denunciation of the Federal Reserve Board which he blames for the devaluation of the dollar.

He forecasts ever greater Chinese reluctance to buy Treasury bonds.

“All empires fail because of a financial crisis,” he told the Christian pastors.

If elected, Paul would try to radically shrink the federal government.

“If we don’t want the government running our lives and we get to run our lives, then we have to assume total responsibility for what we do,” he told the Ames crowd. “We have to suffer the consequences. But the great thing about this philosophy is that if you believe in life, liberty, and the right to pursue your happiness, you also believe you get to keep all of the fruits of your labor.”

Hence Paul would scrap the income tax.

“We don’t have to put anybody out in the streets,” he said. “We can just let young people —whoever wants to take care of themselves — get out of the (Social Security and Medicare) system,” he said.

Americans' love of the welfare state
Since most Americans have become accustomed to the welfare state, isn’t ending it the toughest idea to sell to audiences?

“It is,” he acknowledged in an interview before his Ames speech. “It’s really tough — unless the young people listen to what I’m talking about, because the young people know they’re getting ripped off.”

Asked point blank whether he would propose to abolish Medicare, Paul replied, “That’s not my goal. It might be my theoretical goal and my philosophic goal.”

He predicts Medicare will “self-destruct.”

He foresees a transition in which current beneficiaries are paid for, but "young people get out.”
The only place where Paul got a less than friendly reception this past weekend in Iowa was the Iowa Republican Party’s Reagan Dinner Saturday night.

The members of the GOP establishment sat on their hands through most of Paul’s address. Not until he’d spoken for nine minutes did he get any applause, a tepid round of clapping when he called for abolishing the income tax.

Meanwhile, Paul is drawing a mixture of curiosity and respect from Democrats.
Doug Bishop, the treasurer of Jasper County in central Iowa and a staunch supporter of Democrat John Edwards for president, said, “There are a lot of people (in Iowa) looking at Ron Paul because he knows he’s not going to win, so he’s not scared to tell the truth."

Bishop added, "He’s throwing it right out there: get us out of Iraq, take care of America first, let’s take care of home before worrying about spending billions and billions of dollars overseas. And that message is resonating throughout the Midwest.”

Praise from the left
Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., the left-of-center antiwar leader from Marin County, said, “Ron Paul appeals to people who are hungry for politicians who will speak their minds, not parsing, weighing, measuring. He knows what he believes, he’s not afraid to say it.”

he added, “People are loving it.”

Joe Trippi, a 25-year veteran of Iowa caucus politics who served as Howard Dean’s campaign manager in 2003 and who’s now a top aide to Edwards, said, “From what I see, Ron Paul is doing much better than his better-known opponents think he is doing. He is at that stage of the Dean campaign when all the other campaigns are laughing at him and have no idea of how strong he really is.”

Trippi added, “This kind of candidacy can be surprisingly strong in a caucus state particularly if it stays just below the radar.”

Drew Ivers, Paul’s Iowa campaign chairman, used that same phrase in addressing the Paul rally in Des Moines Saturday.

Ivers asked for show of hands on how many members of the audience were registered Republicans. Seeing that about half weren’t, Ivers told them they were “under the radar — which is exactly where I want to be.”

A repeat of the 1988 Robertson surprise?
In 1988, Ivers headed Pat Robertson’s campaign in Iowa, recruiting thousands of Christian conservatives.

Robertson shocked the GOP establishment by placing second in Iowa to Sen. Bob Dole, and ahead of eventual GOP nominee George H.W. Bush.

To some degree Paul is drawing on the same conservative Christian voters that Robertson did, although he must vie for their affections with GOP rivals Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney.

Paul told the pastors’ meeting Saturday that, as an obstetrician, he had delivered approximately 4,000 babies. “The right to life issue is a very important issue to me,” he told them.

He told them that during his medical school training he’d entered an operating room without knowing an abortion was being performed. “At the time they weren’t sophisticated in how to kill the unborn before it was delivered. They delivered the baby and put it in a bucket and put in the corner of the room. It tried to cry, tried to breathe. Everybody was pretending it wasn’t there.”

He also explained to the pastors that he voted against the constitutional amendment to outlaw same-sex marriage. “It’s a state issue,” he said, “I think it should be a religious ceremony; I don’t even like the idea that it’s a state licensing process.”

Paul seems astonished by what has happened to him: “I never would have dreamed that I would have a campaign going that would have big rallies in the center of San Francisco and New York City. There’s something very strange going on. I don’t think anyone has fully comprehended how big it is.”

Paul and his fans will get a first measurement of how big it is on Jan. 3, the night of the Iowa caucuses.

[Gay Boy]

Pick your poison:

[FlameOfCallandor]

Pick your poison:
(Image removed from quote.)

Dude I know that even someone as gay as you dont want either of them as your candidate. Are you just trolling because you are senile about the election process? Dude Man up and support a candidate worth supporting. 

[Candyflip]

Pick your poison:
(Image removed from quote.)

Dude I know that even someone as gay as you dont want either of them as your candidate. Are you just trolling because you are senile about the election process? Dude Man up and support a candidate worth supporting. 

Did you mean to say cynical?

[Gay Boy]

I agree with Hillary on more issues than I do the other candidates other than Biden. I am voting Romney in the primaries though. MI isn't really having a Dem primary and MI's republican primary is 4th in the nation and I wanna attempt to stop Rudy.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Pick your poison:
(Image removed from quote.)

Dude I know that even someone as gay as you dont want either of them as your candidate. Are you just trolling because you are senile about the election process? Dude Man up and support a candidate worth supporting. 

Did you mean to say cynical?

Probably. I dont even read what I write anymore

[Gay Boy]

You know what? I like Biden best of all the more I think about it
Dems:
1. Joe Biden
2. Hillary
3. Chris Dodd
4. John Edwards
5. Barack Obama
6. Richardson
meh to the rest

Reps:
1. Huckabee
2. McCain
3. Romney
4. Ron Paul
5. Rudy
6. Thompson
meh to the rest

[FlameOfCallandor]

You know what? I like Biden best of all the more I think about it
Dems:
1. Joe Biden

Joe Biden?  ZOMG he has no chance kill yourself now!

[Gay Boy]

Liking a fringe candidate and trying to convince people a fringe candidate has a chance aren't one and the same.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Liking a fringe candidate and trying to convince people a fringe candidate has a chance aren't one and the same.

If you like a candidate why wouldn't you want to explain their views to people. 

[Gay Boy]

Who said anything about that? I said there is a difference between liking a fringe candidate and thinking  they have a chance at winning.

I love Biden and his ideals but I would never say he is going to win.

The moment you start saying you think a fringe candidate with 1% in national polls a mere 2 months before the election is going to win is when you enter: 

If you posted why you like him but were willing to admit he doesn't have a chance in hell you'd see FAAAAR less hate from EB.

[Flannel Boy]

Biden wants to bring back slavery.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Biden wants to bring back slavery.

I bet if Biden was in congress during the battle of Lexington he wouldnt have supported the U.S. 
Or I bet he would have supported the House of Lancaster during the War of Roses. 

[Gay Boy]

I'm white, not my problem. Plus I am not even voting Biden in the primaries. I am voting in the republican primaries.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm white, not my problem. Plus I am not even voting Biden in the primaries. I am voting in the republican primaries.

Ron Paul? 

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://liberty-central.blogspot.com/2007/10/just-how-many-taxes-does-government.html

Just how many taxes does the Government collect
Some have asked,..."How would government run without the income tax?"
We'll for starters we need to cut spending by at least a third, but income taxes don't really pay for any services, just interest on national debt. My question is who gets the interest?

(From Aaron Russo's documentary film "America: Freedom to Fascism")

A Partial List Of Taxes Americans Are Forced To Pay:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Automobile Registration Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (Indirect Taxes)
Dog License Tax
Estate Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 Cents Per Gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (Tax On Top Of Tax)
IRS Penalties (Tax On Top Of Tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Parking Meters
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-Recurring Charges Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

[Gay Boy]

I am only voting in the republican primary to stop Rudy. I hate him more than the rest combined. Whoever is in second (or first ahead of Rudy if that is the case) will get my vote purely to stop rudy. Which likely means Romney. If Paul somehow the day before the election is leading the polls or is second to rudy then he'd get my vote, sure.

If we had a Dem primary here I WOULD vote Biden, yeah. That was my plan.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Paul...get my vote, sure.