FoC's Ron Paul Shitheap: Patel Melts the Internets starting on pg. 24

[Gay Boy]

Paul was influential, no point in arguing over shit like that. So was Perez

It doesn't mean he'll get 5% of the vote in Iowa or NH

Perez Hilton in 2008!

[TVC15]

Who's idea was it to give Osama Bi Laden weapons and training? Was that the CIA. Sounds like a smart group of guys.

Did you even read my post?  Osama's involvement with the CIA involved the, you know, Afghan resistance against communism.  I don't know if you know this, but fighting communism was pretty high profile for like 40 years after WWII.  It's not like the CIA weren't told to get involved there.

[Phoenix Dark]

Oh come on FoC, you're not that dumb. My blood boils when 911 truthers pull the "bubububu the CIA funded Bin Laden!" card. It fits their argument when used out of context (and in hindsight). Bin Laden was trained and supported in order to repel Soviet forces in Afghanistan, which was sort of like their version of Vietnam. At one point he respected the US, but after we "invaded" Saudi Arabia he cut all ties and fucked us over.

 

[TVC15]

Also, the two shadiest CIA operations, MKULTRA and Operation Paperclip, weren't direct initiatives of the CIA.  In both cases, Allen Dulles dictated that the operation begin.  He was the top of the ladder for the CIA; him giving the go ahead basically means the orders came from the cabinet himself.  It just can't be publicly admitted that the President said that MKULTRA sounded like a good idea.

A tool is only as good as the person using it, FoC.  It's not the CIA's fault that they are good at doing bad things when they are allowed to.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Oh come on FoC, you're not that dumb. My blood boils when 911 truthers pull the "bubububu the CIA funded Bin Laden!" card. It fits their argument when used out of context (and in hindsight). Bin Laden was trained and supported in order to repel Soviet forces in Afghanistan, which was sort of like their version of Vietnam. At one point he respected the US, but after we "invaded" Saudi Arabia he cut all ties and fucked us over.

 

Im not a 9/11 truther, but we did fund Bin Ladedn to fight the soviets. Something that wasnt a good idea in hindsight.

[Gay Boy]

Oh come on FoC, you're not that dumb. My blood boils when 911 truthers pull the "bubububu the CIA funded Bin Laden!" card. It fits their argument when used out of context (and in hindsight). Bin Laden was trained and supported in order to repel Soviet forces in Afghanistan, which was sort of like their version of Vietnam. At one point he respected the US, but after we "invaded" Saudi Arabia he cut all ties and fucked us over.

 

Im not a 9/11 truther, but we did fund Bin Laden to fight the soviets. Something that wasnt a good idea in hindsight.

It was the good idea at the time. No one knew that Bin Laden would turn on us. All that mattered then was stopping the Soviets.

We can't assume the future, most political decisions would never have happened if they knew the full outcome.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Who's idea was it to give Osama Bi Laden weapons and training? Was that the CIA. Sounds like a smart group of guys.

The CIA and Bin Laden had nothing to do with each other in the 1980s.

In Soviet Afghanistan, there were many mujahideen groups that were backed by different nations.  Bin Laden was in Saudi-backed mujahideens and the US was focused on Pakistan-based mujahideen groups.  There has been no evidence tying the CIA and Bin Laden together.  Unless you can find it, one with credibility.  If it is from the same source as a 9/11 Truther, don't even bother posting it.  The only connection is that the Saudi intelligence agency matched the CIA dollar for dollar towards Zia's ISI, which didn't spend one cent on Bin Laden's group.

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

Jihad in Afghanistan
Bin Laden's wealth and connections assisted his interest in supporting the mujahideen, Muslim guerrillas fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. His old teacher from the university in Jeddah, Abdullah Azzam, had relocated to Peshawar, a major border city of a million people in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan. From there, Azzam was able to organize resistance directly on the Afghan frontier. Peshawar is only 15 km (9.3 miles) east of the historic Khyber Pass, through the Safed Koh mountains, connected to the southeastern edge of the Hindu Kush range. This route became the major avenue of inserting foreign fighters and material support into eastern Afghanistan for the resistance against the Soviets.

After leaving college in 1979 bin Laden joined Azzam[81][82] to fight the Soviet Invasion[83] and lived for a time in Peshawar.[84] According to Rahimullah Yusufzai, executive editor of the English-language daily The News International in 2001 "Azzam prevailed on him to come and use his money" for training recruits, reported Yusufzai.[85] In the early 1980s, bin Laden lived at several addresses in and around Arbab Road, a narrow street in the University Town neighborhood in western Peshawar, Yusufzai said. Nearby in Gulshan Iqbal Road is the Arab mosque that Abdullah Azzam used as the jihad center, according to a Reuters inquiry in the neighborhood.

By 1984, with Azzam, bin Laden had established a Saudi Arabian funded organization named Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK, Office of Order in English), which funneled money, arms and Muslim fighters from around the Arabic world into the Afghan war. Through al-Khadamat, bin Laden's inherited family fortune[86] paid for air tickets and accommodation, dealt with paperwork with Pakistani authorities and provided other such services for the jihad fighters. In running al-Khadamat, bin Laden set up a network of couriers traveling between Afghanistan and Peshawar, which continued to remain active after 2001, according to Yusufzai. It was during this time that Bin Laden met his future al-Qaeda collaborator, Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, a member and later head of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad.


Alleged CIA involvement
Main article: Allegations of CIA assistance to Osama bin Laden
Whether Osama bin Laden and his group are "blowback" from the American CIA's "Operation Cyclone" to help the Afghan mujahideen, is a matter of some debate.

Robin Cook, former leader of the British House of Commons and Foreign Secretary from 1997-2001, has written that Bin Laden was, "a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies" and that the mujahideen that formed Al-Qaida were "originally ... recruited and trained with help from the CIA".[87]

However, CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, calls the idea "that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden ... a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. ... Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. ... The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him."[88]

Bergen and others maintain the U.S. aid was given out by the Pakistan government, that it went to Afghan not foreign mujahideen, and that there was no contact between the Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) and the CIA or other American officials, let alone, arming, training, coaching, indoctrination, etc.

There is some evidence.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

There is some evidence.

What was the original source for the Wikipedia entry?

Also, there is nothing in that article about the fact that CIA trained Bin Laden.  All it did was reinforce what I said: that it was Saudi based organization during the 1970s and 1980s.

Also the terrorist cells in the Middle East dissolve and reform several times over with new members.  Robin Cook said members of the mujahideen were trained by the CIA, not Bin Laden himself.  When the Soviets left Afghanistan, many of these organizations dissolved and some consolidated.

I'm willing to be wrong but I need to see the hard facts.  I need to see proof that even a single penny was exchanged between Bin Laden and the CIA.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm willing to be wrong but I need to see the hard facts.  I need to see proof that even a single penny was exchanged between Bin Laden and the CIA.

Where in the fuck would you see that?

[FlameOfCallandor]

Let me whip out my pocket CIA budget.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Dude, there were investigations in 2002 and one of them was whether the CIA and Bin Laden were directly involved during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.  In depth investigations proved that the CIA did not fund and train Bin Laden.  Which is why I said, post up proof of your own.

So stop making smart ass comments and put up some proof.

[FlameOfCallandor]

So instead of directly funding bin laden, we funded the future taliban.

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,498421,00.html

At a summit meeting at the end of July, top US officials announced a deal to send major new weapons systems to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel and other governments in the Middle East to counterbalance Iran's growing influence there.

Voigt wondered whether it was a wise move. "The region is not suffering from a lack of arms, but from a lack of stability," he said. "I have strong doubts whether stability could be achieved with these weapons."

But such arms deals have a long tradition in Washington. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" was a maxim of several US governments during the Cold War. Washington's foreign policy often sanctioned selling weapons to questionable regimes promising to help contain the communist threat regardless of the potential consequences.

The deals frequently ended as debacles: US soldiers have all too often stared down the barrels of guns their own government sold to the armies of countries that used to be their supposed allies. The convoluted US-Iranian relationship is a textbook example of such policies.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Gore am cry.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NATION/844993096/1001

More than 400 scientists challenge claims by former Vice President Al Gore and the United Nations about the threat of man-made global warming, a new Senate minority report says.

[Mandark]

Nice report.

I used to believe in global warming, but now I've read a quote from "Emmy award-winning Chief Meteorologist for an NBC affiliate Bill Meck", my whole viewpoint has changed!

[Mupepe]

oh my god.  how the fuck has this thread made it this far?

[Gay Boy]

A new senate minority report?

Meaning a republican report? It's useless then. Republicans dont know shit about global warming.

[FlameOfCallandor]

The scientists — many of whom are current or former members of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) that shares the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with Mr. Gore for publicizing a climate crisis — cast doubt on the "scientific consensus" that man-made global warming imperils the planet.



"I find the Doomsday picture Al Gore is painting — a six-meter sea level rise, 15 times the IPCC number — entirely without merit," said Dutch atmospheric scientist Hendrik Tennekes, one of the researchers quoted in the report by Republican staff of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

 

[Mandark]

But does he have an Emmy?

Seriously, you're using your political affiliation to sort out your beliefs on physical sciences.  That doesn't strike you as wrong?

[Gay Boy]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

[FlameOfCallandor]

But does he have an Emmy?

Seriously, you're using your political affiliation to sort out your beliefs on physical sciences.  That doesn't strike you as wrong?

Actually im not, i never was sold on global warming being man made.

[FlameOfCallandor]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

So then should we even discuss it? Or should we follow Al Gore and just claim that denying man made global warming is like saying the earth is flat.

[Van Cruncheon]

you were never sold on global warming being man-made based on WHAT knowledge and credentials

this should be good

[Gay Boy]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

So then should we even discuss it? Or should we follow Al Gore and just claim that denying man made global warming is like saying the earth is flat.

Denying man made global warming is very comparable to calling the earth flat. Both are idiotic beliefs with no basis from the majority of the science community.

[FlameOfCallandor]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

So then should we even discuss it? Or should we follow Al Gore and just claim that denying man made global warming is like saying the earth is flat.

Denying man made global warming is very comparable to calling the earth flat. Both are idiotic beliefs with no basis from the majority of the science community.

So sceine should just close the case and never ask why again. Maybe that sounds like sciense in your liberal mind, but not in mine. We should akways ask questions and always be skeptical.

[Gay Boy]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

So then should we even discuss it? Or should we follow Al Gore and just claim that denying man made global warming is like saying the earth is flat.

Denying man made global warming is very comparable to calling the earth flat. Both are idiotic beliefs with no basis from the majority of the science community.

So sceine should just close the case and never ask why again. Maybe that sounds like sciense in your liberal mind, but not in mine. We should akways ask questions and always be skeptical.

So we should question evolution too? Question gravity?

[Van Cruncheon]

So sceine should just close the case and never ask why again. Maybe that sounds like sciense in your liberal mind, but not in mine. We should akways ask questions and always be skeptical.

let us try for a few extra misspellings of "science" shall we

[FlameOfCallandor]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

So then should we even discuss it? Or should we follow Al Gore and just claim that denying man made global warming is like saying the earth is flat.

Denying man made global warming is very comparable to calling the earth flat. Both are idiotic beliefs with no basis from the majority of the science community.

So sceine should just close the case and never ask why again. Maybe that sounds like sciense in your liberal mind, but not in mine. We should akways ask questions and always be skeptical.

So we should question evolution too? Question gravity?

YES. Question everything.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

You know for every 400 scientists who deny man made global warming there is 4,000 who say it's man made.

So then should we even discuss it? Or should we follow Al Gore and just claim that denying man made global warming is like saying the earth is flat.

Denying man made global warming is very comparable to calling the earth flat. Both are idiotic beliefs with no basis from the majority of the science community.

So sceine should just close the case and never ask why again. Maybe that sounds like sciense in your liberal mind, but not in mine. We should akways ask questions and always be skeptical.

So we should question evolution too? Question gravity?

YES. Question everything.

Which is why you're willing to accept a report by Republicans, who have a less than stellar track record regarding the environment?

[Van Cruncheon]

YES. Question everything.

a) that sounds better when it isn't a demonstrated idiot asserting it like dogma
b) you forgot the corollary: anticipate answers

[FlameOfCallandor]

Which is why you're willing to accept a report by Republicans, who have a less than stellar track record regarding the environment?

  Did you even read the article.

[Gay Boy]

Yeah. He likes to say he "owned Gore" with his proof he is refusing to question about the non-existence of man made global warming. Rather hypocritical of him.

It's like reading a report on physics written by six year olds. It's  waste of time.

[Van Cruncheon]

that report has been rewritten and re-edited countless times and in various other permutations by the same group of exxon-mobil funded shitheels. they keep adding a few names from the fringe scientific community, but it's been circulating in various forms since 2003. yes, we've all read it at some time or another. it's crap.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Yeah. He likes to say he "owned Gore" with his proof he is refusing to question about the non-existence of man made global warming. Rather hypocritical of him.

Im questioning it, my point was that we shouldnt be so strict about global warming like Al Gore. He has said that noone should question global warming.

[Gay Boy]

I love that they can only come up with 400 scientiststo back up their claim since 2003. I bet I could find 400 scientists to back up any claim ever as long as I had the money the Republican Party has.

[FlameOfCallandor]

that report has been rewritten and re-edited countless times and in various other permutations by the same group of exxon-mobil funded shitheels. they keep adding a few names from the fringe scientific community, but it's been circulating in various forms since 2003. yes, we've all read it at some time or another. it's crap.

Link please

[FlameOfCallandor]

I love that they can only come up with 400 scientiststo back up their claim since 2003. I bet I could find 400 scientists to back up any claim ever as long as I had the money the Republican Party has.

WTF its one report.

[Gay Boy]

FoC read this if you truely have an open mind on the issue: http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

Within the first answer they mention the gold standard.

[Van Cruncheon]

Yeah. He likes to say he "owned Gore" with his proof he is refusing to question about the non-existence of man made global warming. Rather hypocritical of him.

Im questioning it, my point was that we shouldnt be so strict about global warming like Al Gore. He has said that noone should question global warming.

you're not questioning shit. al gore was just doing some typical political grandstanding. where were you when ron paul was trying to weasel out of his own hyperbolic grandstanding re: christianity and fascism? oh yes, you were defending it.

DO NOT EVER DISCUSS FREE-THINKING AGAIN. please do the honest thing for once and note that you are enrolled in the cult of ron paul wholesale.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Yeah. He likes to say he "owned Gore" with his proof he is refusing to question about the non-existence of man made global warming. Rather hypocritical of him.

Im questioning it, my point was 
you're not questioning shit. al gore was just doing some typical political grandstanding. where were you when ron paul was trying to weasel out of his own hyperbolic grandstanding re: christianity and fascism? oh yes, you were defending it.

DO NOT EVER DISCUSS FREE-THINKING AGAIN. please do the honest thing for once and note that you are enrolled in the cult of ron paul wholesale.

Yes quoting one famous quote on a news show is exactly like what al gore does.   

[FlameOfCallandor]

FoC read this if you truely have an open mind on the issue: http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

Within the first answer they mention the gold standard.

 

http://www.environmentaldefense.org

FACT: There is no debate among scientists about the basic facts of global warming.

Do you have any links that arent so biased?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

FoC read this if you truely have an open mind on the issue: http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

Within the first answer they mention the gold standard.

 

http://www.environmentaldefense.org

FACT: There is no debate among scientists about the basic facts of global warming.

Do you have any links that arent so biased?

I'm still waiting for you post proof about Bin Laden and the CIA connection.

[Gay Boy]

FoC read this if you truely have an open mind on the issue: http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

Within the first answer they mention the gold standard.

 

http://www.environmentaldefense.org

FACT: There is no debate among scientists about the basic facts of global warming.

Do you have any links that arent so biased?

so your link written by republicans had no bias at all?

[Van Cruncheon]

FoC read this if you truely have an open mind on the issue: http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011

Within the first answer they mention the gold standard.

 

http://www.environmentaldefense.org

FACT: There is no debate among scientists about the basic facts of global warming.

Do you have any links that arent so biased?

if you're going to complain about biased links, then you are not allowed to post any more batshit nuttery from mises.org or lewrockwell.com

[Mandark]

Why is it every time someone uncritically embraces fringe pseudo-science, they take on the mantle of skepticism and free thought?

Unless you're a researcher yourself (or at least a grad student whoring yourself out to your professors), everything you know about science you know because someone else told you, and you accepted it.  That's how you know germs make people sick, that the Earth revolves around the Sun, that matter can be converted into nuclear energy, etc. etc.

Don't reject one or two things you don't want to believe for ideological reasons, then pretend it's because of some dedication to skepticism.

Or maybe you want to list all the findings in physics, astronomy, geology, and chemistry that have "never convinced" you.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I take everything I said back. I saw this cute sad picture of a polar bear on a melting ice cap and now I am a believer. Who will save the polar bears and penguins. We need carbon taxes on everyone and everything and then we need the government to force us all to do stuff. It's the only way to save human kind. Save us from ourselves!!!

[Gay Boy]

I take everything I said back. I saw this cute sad picture of a polar bear on a melting ice cap and now I am a believer. Who will save the polar bears and penguins. We need carbon taxes on everyone and everything and then we need the government to force us all to do stuff. It's the only way to save human kind. Save us from ourselves!!!

How do you feel about the new law that bans incandescent lightbulbs? passed in congress, signed into law by bush.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I take everything I said back. I saw this cute sad picture of a polar bear on a melting ice cap and now I am a believer. Who will save the polar bears and penguins. We need carbon taxes on everyone and everything and then we need the government to force us all to do stuff. It's the only way to save human kind. Save us from ourselves!!!

How do you feel about the new law that bans incandescent lightballs? passed in congress, signed into law by bush.

Was this part of the gas bill? I didnt read about the light bulb stuff.

[Gay Boy]

I take everything I said back. I saw this cute sad picture of a polar bear on a melting ice cap and now I am a believer. Who will save the polar bears and penguins. We need carbon taxes on everyone and everything and then we need the government to force us all to do stuff. It's the only way to save human kind. Save us from ourselves!!!

How do you feel about the new law that bans incandescent lightballs? passed in congress, signed into law by bush.

Was this part of the gas bill? I didnt read about the light bulb stuff.

It was part of a recent energy bill. It bans the lighbulb used by the majority of american households due to it's impact on global warming.

[FlameOfCallandor]

It was part of a recent energy bill. It bans the lighbulb used by the majority of american households due to it's impact on global warming.

Sounds like a colossal waste of legislation.

[Gay Boy]

It was part of a recent energy bill. It bans the lighbulb used by the majority of american households due to it's impact on global warming.

Sounds like a colossal waste of legislation.

Helping the environment is a waste of time?

AND it saves money.

The new rules are expected to save consumers $40 billion in energy and other costs from 2012 to 2030, avoid construction of 14 coal-fired power plants, and cut global-warming emissions by at least 51 million tons of carbon annually, according to the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Helping the environment is a waste of time?

Not at all. Trying to legislate the market like this is.

[FlameOfCallandor]

The new rules are expected to save consumers $40 billion in energy

Consumers hate saving money. Only the government can force money saving on us!

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm all about helping the environment, but don't fuckin' tell me what to do Big Brother.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm all about helping the environment, but don't fuckin' tell me what to do Big Brother.

What we really need is for government to force low flo shower heads, toilets and washers.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm all about helping the environment, but don't fuckin' tell me what to do Big Brother.

You're leaving that up to Jesus.

Who better to listen to than a man who hung out with prostitutes, pimps, and lepers?

[FlameOfCallandor]

Black Jesus

[Phoenix Dark]

He looks like he just got caught jackin it

[Phoenix Dark]

The bible never said how he made all those fish...