FoC's Ron Paul Shitheap: Patel Melts the Internets starting on pg. 24

[Human Snorenado]

in what bizarre universe would corporations implement universal healthcare, especially for the unemployed, sick, insane, or elderly?

GOLD STANDARD WORLD

[FlameOfCallandor]

in what bizarre universe would corporations implement universal healthcare, especially for the unemployed, sick, insane, or elderly?

What does that have to do with anything? We cant force people to help themselves. People need to help their own self.

[FlameOfCallandor]

in what bizarre universe would corporations implement universal healthcare, especially for the unemployed, sick, insane, or elderly?

If you are so worried about these folks why dont you give money to a non-profit organization to help them.

[Human Snorenado]

in what bizarre universe would corporations implement universal healthcare, especially for the unemployed, sick, insane, or elderly?

If you are so worried about these folks why dont you give money to a non-profit organization to help them.

You keep saying this will be the solution in your free market libertopia, but as it is right now not enough people do contribute to non-profits to help everyone in need, and if we get rid of all those pesky taxes that eliminates write-offs as well which is a large impetus to contributing in the first place.

So what happens then?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

lolz it's not our job to help people to help themselves lolz

[close]

[Van Cruncheon]

in what bizarre universe would corporations implement universal healthcare, especially for the unemployed, sick, insane, or elderly?

What does that have to do with anything? We cant force people to help themselves. People need to help their own self.

some people can't help themselves (sick, insane, elderly, handicapped, distinguished mentally-challenged), nor should everybody feel obligated to help themselves according to one particular doctrine/ethos of life. whatever happened to your tenet of individualism -- or is that only the case when the individual makes lifestyle decisions that agree with yours, cultist? why should ANYONE be denied access to medical care?

[FlameOfCallandor]

You keep saying this will be the solution in your free market libertopia, but as it is right now not enough people do contribute to non-profits to help everyone in need

The maybe you should question the validity of the government doing also.
This doesn't happen because the government taxes us way to much to begin with.


 Also if you think the government will all the sudden make things better with healthcare you are far mistaken. What you are gonna get is a healthcare system brought to you by the people who brought us FEMA. Is that what you want?

lolz it's not our job to help people to help themselves lolz

Do you think its the governments job to play our nanny? Kissing our Booboos whenever we fall down, taking care of us from cradle to grave. And in what insane world do you live in where a market with no competition becomes cheaper.

[FlameOfCallandor]

some people can't help themselves (sick, insane, elderly, handicapped, distinguished mentally-challenged), nor should everybody feel obligated to help themselves according to one particular doctrine/ethos of life.

Why is it my responsibly to help them? Why should I be forced to help them?

Whatever happened to your tenet of individualism -- or is that only the case when the individual makes lifestyle decisions that agree with yours, cultist? why should ANYONE be denied access to medical care?

What the fuck does individualism have to do with this.

[Human Snorenado]

I was about to type up a nice big, long post, but then I remembered who I'm talking at here, so I'll just say

Idiot Racist.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I was about to type up a nice big, long post, but then I remembered who I'm talking at here, so I'll just say

Or because you cant, you're argument basically comes down to socialism.

[Van Cruncheon]

healthcare brought to us by bush administration cronies? don't we have only a year left of that? previous presidents have run very tight ships for governmental organizations and bodies.

it is the governments job to assure the well-being of its citizenry -- if you disagree, well, hell, why do you want a standing army? do we need a NANNY to shoot at those mean old bad guys? why not let the local governments and states decide if they agree to repel or side with invaders? hell, let the people maintain their own militias and weaponry!

the government is the codified and institutionalized WILL OF SOCIETY. you are nothing without everyone else in your broader community and society. you cannot be rich without other people. you cannot be smart, or famous, or accomplished without other people. you cannot thrive without other people. hence, you give up "freedoms" and resources to support them, and health care is a very fundamental component of that support -- and it's appalling that we pretend that we should rely on charity, and not EVERYONE, to support it seeing as we ALL directly AND indirectly benefit from a healthy society.

[Human Snorenado]

I was about to type up a nice big, long post, but then I remembered who I'm talking at here, so I'll just say

Or because you cant, you're argument basically comes down to socialism.

Oh I can, but you're only worth a reply of

IDIOT RACIST

[Van Cruncheon]

I was about to type up a nice big, long post, but then I remembered who I'm talking at here, so I'll just say

Or because you cant, you're argument basically comes down to socialism.

your argument "basically comes down to" libertarianism, which, as an -ism -- i.e. political and doctrinal dogma as unreasoned and unsupported save for its nice epistemological package -- is at best EQUALLY distinguished mentally-challenged as socialism, and it worst, even more so.

[FlameOfCallandor]

healthcare brought to us by bush administration cronies? don't we have only a year left of that? previous presidents have run very tight ships for governmental organizations and bodies.

You realize im not a fan of bush right? And you do realize that current healthcare existed before bush.

it is the governments job to assure the well-being of its citizenry -- if you disagree, well, hell, why do you want a standing army? do we need a NANNY to shoot at those mean old bad guys? why not let the local governments and states decide if they agree to repel or side with invaders? hell, let the people maintain their own militias and weaponry!

Actually the reason we will never be invaded is because of our right to own guns. My history professor told me that when Mcarthur was in Japan after WW@ he asked why they didnt invade America. Their answer? It would be a door to door fight. Our Right to won guns is the reason our country will never be felled by a foreign invasion.

you are nothing without everyone else in your broader community and society.

Maybe you arent, but I feel fine being able to choose my communities.

you cannot be rich without other people. you cannot be smart, or famous, or accomplished without other people. you cannot thrive without other people. hence, you give up "freedoms" and resources to support them, and health care is a very fundamental component of that support

So we should do anything that, keeps our nation healthier? What about torture? I bet we could find solid arguments for torture keeping us safer, certainly the will of the people after 9/11 was what brought us in Iraq. That was argued that it was in our national safety, was that a good idea?

 

and it's appalling that we pretend that we should rely on charity, and not EVERYONE, to support it seeing as we ALL directly AND indirectly benefit from a healthy society.

Why can't I chose what I benefit from? Isnt that what freedom is? Choice.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Oh I can,

No you cant. Otherwise your fat ass would.

[FlameOfCallandor]

your argument "basically comes down to" libertarianism, which, as an -ism -- i.e. political and doctrinal dogma as unreasoned and unsupported save for its nice epistemological package -- is at best EQUALLY distinguished mentally-challenged as socialism, and it worst, even more so.

No my argument comes down to free markets and choice. Something you dont seem to like. I guess we should just force stuff on to you because its the will of the people.

[FlameOfCallandor]

No my argument comes down to free markets and choice. Something you dont seem to like. I guess we should just force stuff on to you because its the will of the people.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Hey guess what? The majority of americans believe in God. I guess according to drinky we better teach god in school!

[Human Snorenado]

IDIOT RACIST

[FlameOfCallandor]

Dont forget Franklins analogy.

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote. "

[FlameOfCallandor]

Git R Dune

Your text size isnt big enough. You should clarify what you were trying to say.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I think its funny that you are calling me a racist with nothing to back it up.  Go ahaed keep calling it to me. It would be like me saying that your life isnt worthless.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'll go ahead and save you the time from thinking about your response.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

IDIOT RACIST

[close]

[Human Snorenado]

I think its funny that you are calling me a racist with nothing to back it up.  Go ahaed keep calling it to me. It would be like me saying that your life isnt worthless.

Uh, your posting history you dimwitted shitburger?

[Van Cruncheon]

1. You realize im not a fan of bush right? And you do realize that current healthcare existed before bush.

2. Actually the reason we will never be invaded is because of our right to own guns. My history professor told me that when Mcarthur was in Japan after WW@ he asked why they didnt invade America. Their answer? It would be a door to door fight. Our Right to won guns is the reason our country will never be felled by a foreign invasion.

3. Maybe you arent, but I feel fine being able to choose my communities.

4. So we should do anything that, keeps our nation healthier? What about torture? I bet we could find solid arguments for torture keeping us safer, certainly the will of the people after 9/11 was what brought us in Iraq. That was argued that it was in our national safety, was that a good idea?

5. Why can't I chose what I benefit from? Isnt that what freedom is? Choice.

in order:

1. *whooshing noise*

2. i am glad (no i am not) that you put your faith in flimsy anecdotes provided by texas college professors. even if it's true, so fucking what? it's an anecdote. is this what you base your political reasoning and policy on: world war 2 anecdotes? i'm pretty sure that if, say, china wanted to invade us today, AMERICANS HAVE GUNZ AT HOME LULZ would be pretty low in their list of potential risks to consider, well beneath ever so trivial things like LARGE GEOGRAPHY TO OCCUPY and POWERFUL FEDERALLY-FUNDED ARSENAL AND AIR FORCE and THE FOREMOST MILITARY TRAINING REGIMEN IN THE FIRST-WORLD THANKS TO FEDERAL SUPPORT, FUNDING, AND COORDINATION. oh, those silly invaders and their mistaken priorities -- it's grand-dad and his .30-06 what'll send them zipperheads packin'!

3. you are also rich, milkfat, and privileged. i am sure many elderly, wick, insane, handicapped, and poor would love to choose their communities, as well! them dirty hobos deserve the ghetto, though, eh -- they just didn't pick the right values, and that's why they're so poor! good thing this society values film students over line-order cooks and retail wporkers, eh?

that said, *air whooshing again* -- you really missed my point entirely.

4. oz called and wants its strawman back plzkthx

5. society decided what freedom is. without society, you have no freedoms, because these "freedoms" are things OTHER PEOPLE grant you. why would you choose not to support them -- what does society gain from you opting out of its greater health?

[Van Cruncheon]

No my argument comes down to free markets and choice. Something you dont seem to like. I guess we should just force stuff on to you because its the will of the people.

Hey guess what? The majority of americans believe in God. I guess according to drinky we better teach god in school!

there is a vast gulf of difference between personal belief and personal action, in case you missed it. most americans believe in god. however, it is also worth noting that our current society also agrees that belief in god is a choice worth granting -- and why? because of the tacit acknowledgment that forcing belief on people harms society more than it helps it. universal health care, on the other head, is at best a massive boon and at worst an unproven risk with potentially wonderful payout.

[Van Cruncheon]

No my argument comes down to free markets and choice. Something you dont seem to like. I guess we should just force stuff on to you because its the will of the people.

one more ludicrous strawman conceived in that cesspit of irrational binary thought you call your brain and i go back to cruelly mocking you

[Eric P]

Dont forget Franklins analogy.

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote. "

“You want to know about voting. I’m here to tell you about voting.

“Imagine you’re locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain’t allowed out until you all vote on what you’re going to do tonight.

“You like to put your feet up and watch ‘Republican Party Reservation’ [a TV soap]. They like to have sex with normal people using knives, guns, and brand-new sexual organs that you did not know existed.

“So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as your eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades.

“That’s voting. You’re welcome.”

[Van Cruncheon]

ere this coversation degenerate into a mirror of foc's binary little brain where you are either one thing or the other but never a nuanced blend of the two, i should point out that despite what i've said above, i am not particularly a socialist. i believe there are some governmental institutions and rules that need to favor society at large (such as education and health care), and many that should favor the individual (such as freedom of speech and artistic expression). it seems horribly obvious to assert that, but then again, foc is horrible at thinking.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The thing about FoC is that if you go to other internet boards, they are saying the exact same things he is.  All Ron Paul fans are so eerily lockstep that Ron Paul's fanbase resembles more of a cult than grassroots support.

This is why FoC gets ruined in every debate.  Once he runs out of Ron Paul talking points, he has no more material to go by so he either tries to derail the thread or he ducks out for a day until the subject matter changes.

Instant Ron Paul posts.  Insert these babies into every debate:

The founding fathers believe that ______
______ is bad.  It is socialism.
Let the free market decide the fate of _______
No ____ happened in the past.  Only when government intervention took place did ____ happen.  Government creates problems more than solves.
I'm more scared of the government than _______
Ayn Rand is better than _______
_________ is just liberal trash.
_________ is what the (Illuminati/Bilderbergs/people who believe in the development and protection of a Jewish nation) want you to think.

[Phoenix Dark]

*smh* at the direction of this  thread

[Boogie]

Actually the reason we will never be invaded is because of our right to own guns. My history professor told me that when Mcarthur was in Japan after WW@ he asked why they didnt invade America. Their answer? It would be a door to door fight. Our Right to won guns is the reason our country will never be felled by a foreign invasion.

You're an idiot, your history professor is an idiot, and Macarthur was an idiot.

[Phoenix Dark]

WTF that makes no sense. Plus Macarthur was crazy and wanted to fucking nuke China

[Fresh Prince]

Universal Healthcare is good for the following reasons apart from altruistic reasons pointed out before:
1) Health Insurance rarely covers everything. Those who are 'easing the burden' and who pay taxes for Universal Healthcare also benefit from it.
2) Markets. The first reason is the middle/upper class who without a healthcare safety net would be less inclined to spend within the market and rather save for a rainy day. The second are the poors, since if the poors get sick where is your labour force going to come from? Lastly companies like GM who would greatly reduce their health care debt and thus be competitve in the market again e.g. creation of jobs etc.


 

[Flannel Boy]

Universal Healthcare is good for the following reasons apart from altruistic reasons pointed out before:
1) Health Insurance rarely covers everything. Those who are 'easing the burden' and who pay taxes for Universal Healthcare also benefit from it.
2) Markets. The first reason is the middle/upper class who without a healthcare safety net would be less inclined to spend within the market and rather save for a rainy day. The second are the poors, since if the poors get sick where is your labour force going to come from? Lastly companies like GM who would greatly reduce their health care debt and thus be competitve in the market again e.g. creation of jobs etc.


 

I am for universal health care, but I think your points are weak.
1. Universal health care doesn't cover everything either. Countries do not have infinite resources so they do not cover everything.
2. I don't see why the rich would be more inclined to spend with universal health care. In order to be fiscally responsible you would have to raise their taxes by an amount that is far great than what they actually spend on medical insurance at the moment. So, if anything, they would have less to spend.

I wasn't aware that the US had a labor shortage because of health care.

Some companies might benefit and some companies that do not have large health expenses might not because of the increased taxes which would likely be needed.

[Human Snorenado]

Actually the reason we will never be invaded is because of our right to own guns. My history professor told me that when Mcarthur was in Japan after WW@ he asked why they didnt invade America. Their answer? It would be a door to door fight. Our Right to won guns is the reason our country will never be felled by a foreign invasion.

You're an idiot, your history professor is an idiot, and Macarthur was an idiot.

General Sherman was awesome, tho.  YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE, SIR.

[Phoenix Dark]

Universal Healthcare is good for the following reasons apart from altruistic reasons pointed out before:
1) Health Insurance rarely covers everything. Those who are 'easing the burden' and who pay taxes for Universal Healthcare also benefit from it.
2) Markets. The first reason is the middle/upper class who without a healthcare safety net would be less inclined to spend within the market and rather save for a rainy day. The second are the poors, since if the poors get sick where is your labour force going to come from? Lastly companies like GM who would greatly reduce their health care debt and thus be competitve in the market again e.g. creation of jobs etc.


 

I am for universal health care, but I think your points are weak.
1. Universal health care doesn't cover everything either. Countries do not have infinite resources so they do not cover everything.
2. I don't see why the rich would be more inclined to spend with universal health care. In order to be fiscally responsible you would have to raise their taxes by an amount that is far great than what they actually spend on medical insurance at the moment. So, if anything, they would have less to spend.

I wasn't aware that the US had a labor shortage because of health care.

Some companies might benefit and some companies that do not have large health expenses might not because of the increased taxes which would likely be needed.

Have fun with the taxes. Oh wait, you're in Canada. Lucky bastard

[Fresh Prince]

I am for universal health care, but I think your points are weak.
1. Universal health care doesn't cover everything either. Countries do not have infinite resources so they do not cover everything.
2. I don't see why the rich would be more inclined to spend with universal health care. In order to be fiscally responsible you would have to raise their taxes by an amount that is far great than what they actually spend on medical insurance at the moment. So, if anything, they would have less to spend.

I wasn't aware that the US had a labor shortage because of health care.

Some companies might benefit and some companies that do not have large health expenses might not because of the increased taxes which would likely be needed.

1. I'm not sure you're point is correct. Universal Healthcare should cover non-elective procedures. You may have to wait a few hours/months/years or not necessarily receive the best treatment but in the end you do. 
2. The tax burden would be shared and although people would be paying more taxes this would be minute compared to the individual paying for comprehensive medical insurance or them absorbing most of the costs, I imagine.
3. True but in the forseeable future we don't know what can happen.
4. The tax burden will be shared again.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

My history professor said that a copy of Red Dawn fell through a wormhole back to Tokyo, 1945. As soon as they figured out how to watch it, the Japanese knew that any invasion of America was doomed to failure due to the citizen's inherent spunk and vigor.

[Flannel Boy]

1. You did not specify earlier that you were only talking about non-elective procedures.
2. The tax burden is not shared equally; most people pay little to no tax while a few people pay the majority of the taxes. I am fine with this inequality since there is a great inequality in wealth. However, your point was that the rich would have more money to spend with universal health care because they would not be paying into private plans. This is nonsense as the amount of money they put into private plans is negligible when looking at their incomes. And it is fixed in the sense that it does not increase as their incomes' increase. But obviously the tax burden increases as ones level of income increases. Thus they would have less money to spend.
And, most likely, the rich would retain their private health plans anyway, as long as they were still legally allowed to do so. Thus they would still be paying into private plans while also paying extra tax.
Do I care? Not as such, I'm just arguing your point.
3. As long as there is Medicaid and as long as hospitals have to treat people, regardless of whether they can pay, I do not see this happening.
4. Tax burden is not shared. More importantly, current health costs are not shared. Corporations currently have differing levels of health care costs. So some companies with high costs might be better off while others with fewer costs might be worse off.
   
I am not saying there aren't utilitarian type arguments in favor of universal health care. I just don't think there are any that focus in on the rich or on corporations. And I think Rawlsian type arguments are superior.

[Fresh Prince]

2. This depends I guess on the specifics of refunds, tax implementations but on the whole you're right. 
3. I don't know enough about the American Healthcare System but I'll take your word for it.
4. Unlike point 2, I don't see this as a problem. A companies responsibilities should include the health of its employees.   

[FlameOfCallandor]

What did you guys think of Obama healthcare plan at the debate lsat night? Is doesn't include everyone... It leaves out people who dont want to be insured. OMG thats fucking terrible, how dare people choose for themselves!!! Only the government can choose for them.

[FlameOfCallandor]

2. I don't see why the rich would be more inclined to spend with universal health care. In order to be fiscally responsible you would have to raise their taxes by an amount that is far great than what they actually spend on medical insurance at the moment. So, if anything, they would have less to spend.

Is raising taxes on the middle class the wisest thing to do at this moment in our economy?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

What did you guys think of Obama healthcare plan at the debate lsat night? Is doesn't include everyone... It leaves out people who dont want to be insured. OMG thats fucking terrible, how dare people choose for themselves!!! Only the government can choose for them.

I was going to reply, but it looks like you don't need us to participate in order to continue this thrilling debate! Keep up the good work!

[captainbiotch]

The thing about FoC is that if you go to other internet boards, they are saying the exact same things he is.  All Ron Paul fans are so eerily lockstep that Ron Paul's fanbase resembles more of a cult than grassroots support.

This is why FoC gets ruined in every debate.  Once he runs out of Ron Paul talking points, he has no more material to go by so he either tries to derail the thread or he ducks out for a day until the subject matter changes.

Instant Ron Paul posts.  Insert these babies into every debate:

The founding fathers believe that ______
______ is bad.  It is socialism.
Let the free market decide the fate of _______
No ____ happened in the past.  Only when government intervention took place did ____ happen.  Government creates problems more than solves.
I'm more scared of the government than _______
Ayn Rand is better than _______
_________ is just liberal trash.
_________ is what the (Illuminati/Bilderbergs/people who believe in the development and protection of a Jewish nation) want you to think.

You can say that about any group of people on the internet.  No matter what, you're most likely going to run into the grunts.

[brawndolicious]

mob of ron paul supporters chase sean hannity through the streets saying fox news sucks.

[youtube=425,350]aUXKddQvC1o[/youtube]


distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

[FlameOfCallandor]

mob of ron paul supporters chase sean hannity through the streets saying fox news sucks.

Do you disagree?

[FlameOfCallandor]

actually that clip is awesome. 

[brawndolicious]

Do you disagree?

would I be part of a mob shouting that at sean hannity while chasing him?

[Powerslave]

gay thread didnt read

[FlameOfCallandor]

would I be part of a mob shouting that at sean hannity while chasing him?

I would. The guy is a fucking douche bag.

[Human Snorenado]

LOOKS LIKE RON PAUL FINISHES FIFTH, BEHIND A GUY WHO DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER CAMPAIGNING

[BlueTsunami]

[FlameOfCallandor]

LOOKS LIKE RON PAUL FINISHES FIFTH, BEHIND A GUY WHO DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER CAMPAIGNING

Yea I know it sucks. But do you really want guiliani to win?

[demi]

Apparently FlameOfCallandor visited Miami recently. An overpass near where I live has Ron Paul graffiti all over it. 

That was probably Josh, lulz

[FlameOfCallandor]

Apparently FlameOfCallandor visited Miami recently. An overpass near where I live has Ron Paul graffiti all over it. 

Nice! Im really curious about what all of us are going to do after Ron Paul loses.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Apparently FlameOfCallandor visited Miami recently. An overpass near where I live has Ron Paul graffiti all over it. 

Nice! Im really curious about what all of us are going to do after Ron Paul loses.

vote for Hillary

[FlameOfCallandor]

I dont think so.

[Gay Boy]

I dont think so.

Say its Hillary vs. McCain or Huckabee (the likely outcome)

Paul does NOT run for third party. Who do you vote.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'll look into the libertarian candidate and if he she sucks i'll just write in Ron Paul.

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm not sure if even *i'd* vote for hillary! if i do, it will be because huckabee is running against her