Official 2008 Election thread

[Fragamemnon]

did you watch it? Paul getting booed was hilarious.

You like the Iraq war?

No, but he liked seeing Paul booed. I wish I had seen it-it would have been a nice change from the usual over-caffeinated antics Paul supporters usually do at public events to shit them up.

[FlameOfCallandor]

So you like seeing Paul Booed when he says we need to rethink our foreign policy?

[Gay Boy]

I like it because it breaks down your belief that he will win. Republicans dont want an anti-war candidate and wont nominate one. It would be like the democratic party nominating Sean Hannity.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I like it because it breaks down your belief that he will win. Republicans dont want an anti-war candidate and wont nominate one. It would be like the democratic party nominating Sean Hannity.

And yet somehow Paul is more conservative than the rest. Think about what you said.

Also, I think it's funny you laugh and jeer when someone boos a position that most democrats want. Shouldn't you be saying "Hmm, this guy may have a point on foreign policy, but I disagree with him on everything else." Instead, it looks like you would rather see a failed policy succeed just prove me wrong. It's as if you get some kind of sick pleasure out of being right, even if it disagrees with your views and what is best for the country.

[Fragamemnon]

So you like seeing Paul Booed when he says we need to rethink our foreign policy?

Don't read into things too much-I just like seeing Ron Paul booed. The context for said booing is irrelevant to me.

[Gay Boy]

But I dont agree with Paul's policy on Iraq...? I am more similar to Obama's and Hillary's.

[FlameOfCallandor]

But I dont agree with Paul's policy on Iraq...? I am more similar to Obama's and Hillary's.

Oh yea I forgot.

2013 Iraq here we come.

[Gay Boy]

Interesting behind the scenes info of Hillary:

"Clinton campaign insiders are increasingly questioning the cautious, poll-driven approach taken
by Mark Penn, Sen. Hillary Clinton's top political aide," Newday reports. With Clinton's lead fading in most early state and national polls, "dissatisfaction is growing with Penn, who some say has mistakenly run Clinton as a de facto incumbent."

Said on insider: "There are two people who have come up with this strategy -- one Hillary Clinton and one Mark Penn. Mark wanted to run her, basically, for re-election, and we are seeing what happened."

"Clinton's aides insist that no shake-up is imminent and that Penn still has her ear. But they concede Bill Clinton has taken a more active behind-the-scenes role as her campaign flags."

The issue: Many aides want Clinton to go on the offensive but Penn thinks attacks will only drive up Clinton's already high negatives.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Cheebs who is your dream ticket?

[Gay Boy]

Cheebs who is your dream ticket?

Dream? Obama-Biden.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Mine is

Paul/Napolitano

 

[Gay Boy]

Oh boy.

Edwards/Obama might be a better pick thinking about it.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I think a good dem ticket would be

Richardson/Obama

[Gay Boy]

Richardson is a weirdo.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Richardson is a weirdo.

How so?

[Gay Boy]

His I'M A GOVNAH obsession at debates gets old.

[Gay Boy]

I also don't like his position on guns. Democrats who are cozy with the NRA (or any candidate at all) is something that isn't a good thing.

[Phoenix Dark]

Interesting behind the scenes info of Hillary:

"Clinton campaign insiders are increasingly questioning the cautious, poll-driven approach taken
by Mark Penn, Sen. Hillary Clinton's top political aide," Newday reports. With Clinton's lead fading in most early state and national polls, "dissatisfaction is growing with Penn, who some say has mistakenly run Clinton as a de facto incumbent."

Said on insider: "There are two people who have come up with this strategy -- one Hillary Clinton and one Mark Penn. Mark wanted to run her, basically, for re-election, and we are seeing what happened."

"Clinton's aides insist that no shake-up is imminent and that Penn still has her ear. But they concede Bill Clinton has taken a more active behind-the-scenes role as her campaign flags."

The issue: Many aides want Clinton to go on the offensive but Penn thinks attacks will only drive up Clinton's already high negatives.

This is the stuff I'm most interested in concerning politics; I love the behind-the-scenes strategy and in house fighting that goes on in campaigns. I just finished re-watching the first season of 24, which reminded me of how much I loved the Palmer campaign story.

Hillary still has the advantage, but I wouldn't be surprised if Edwards pulls the upset in Iowa

[FlameOfCallandor]

I also don't like his position on guns. Democrats who are cozy with the NRA (or any candidate at all) is something that isn't a good thing.

Why? It's the second amendment. You dont like politicians supporting the bill of rights?

[Gay Boy]

I also don't like his position on guns. Democrats who are cozy with the NRA (or any candidate at all) is something that isn't a good thing.

Why? It's the second amendment. You dont like politicians supporting the bill of rights?

We can restrict some weapons. No one needs a machine gun.

[Bloodwake]

I also don't like his position on guns. Democrats who are cozy with the NRA (or any candidate at all) is something that isn't a good thing.

Why? It's the second amendment. You dont like politicians supporting the bill of rights?

We can restrict some weapons. No one needs a machine gun.

Amen and hallelujah. People going to hunt with AK47s? I'm sorry, that's not realistic. People worry about terrorism and then they make it easy for people in this country to get a machine gun. What bullshit.

[FlameOfCallandor]

2nd amendment isnt about hunting.

[Phoenix Dark]

You're right: it's about maintaining a militia to protect the homeland


...

[Gay Boy]

2nd amendment isnt about hunting.

it's outdated and no longer applies to our day to day life but because of the NRA we can't alter it. We have no need for a militia. People do not need AK-47's for any reason.

The assault weapon ban needs to come back, ASAP.

[FlameOfCallandor]

"For a people who are free and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. It is, therefore, incumbent on us at every meeting [of Congress] to revise the condition of the militia and to ask ourselves if it is prepared to repel a powerful enemy at every point of our territories exposed to invasion... Congress alone have power to produce a uniform state of preparation in this great organ of defense. The interests which they so deeply feel in their own and their country's security will present this as among the most important objects of their deliberation."
--Thomas Jefferson

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
--Thomas Jefferson

[Gay Boy]

Thomas Jefferson does not apply. It is no longer our "duty to be at all times armed." We live in a time of no militia's  of use therefore what use do we have for machine guns and ak-47's?

[FlameOfCallandor]

You dont find it at all unsettling that paramilitary organizations such as blackwater are allowed to own automatic weapons but not U.S. citizens? Isnt that the opposite of what a free society is?

[Van Cruncheon]

actually, i side with foc on this one -- i see nothing wrong with private gun ownership as long as the owners are properly trained and the firearms are properly secured. it's the FANTASIES most gun nuts have that i find disturbing. most of them WANT an excuse to shoot someone.

that said, the 2nd amendment was created and thomas jefferson lived in times when there was no such fucking thing as an automatic weapon, and everybody already HAD a single-shot musket or rifle.

[Gay Boy]

I don't trust Americans with automatic weapons! Most of them are too stupid. Blackwater is wrong but at least they have a USE for the weapon dispite how immoral the use is.

I can't think of a single logical reason an american needs an automatic weapon. Can you?

Hunting - doesn't use that kind
protecting family - handgun is more than needed
militia's - don't serve a purpose nor exist in a proper way anymore

[Van Cruncheon]

sure. for personal entertainment. i like shooting automatic weapons at shit. maybe you don't, and maybe it disturbs you that folks might, but it's a far less dangerous hobby than, say, amateur auto racing and car modification.

[Gay Boy]

I think the potential harm of wackos with them outway the potential entertainment value.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I think the potential harm of wackos with them outway the potential entertainment value.

Free speech has the potential to radicalize people. Should we ban free speech?

[Gay Boy]

I think the potential harm of wackos with them outway the potential entertainment value.

Free speech has the potential to radicalize people. Should we ban free speech?

free speech doesn't have the potential of a drunk southern hick to accidently murder someone with a dangerous weapon.

[FlameOfCallandor]

free speech doesn't have the potential of a drunk southern hick to accidently murder someone with a dangerous weapon.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

[Van Cruncheon]

what harm has happened with automatic weapons in private ownership recently around here? almost all incidents where people have been injured or killed by automatic weapons are scenarios where the perpetrators would have automatic weapons regardless of the legality.

[Gay Boy]

its not neccesary examples and history of harm. I just think there is no logical reason for people to own dangerous weapons. We cant run around with bombs, why automatic weapons? A handgun or a gun for hunting is fine, but after that it is just frivolous.

[brawndolicious]

The pen is mightier than the sword.

I choked on my cracker.

I love guns and I agree with Prole's idea.  Include the government in it.  Tax that shit and make a gun DMV or some shit.  FUCK libertarianism.  You need special training if you're using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon.  Also make them illegal to buy or sell privately at gun shows (so you can do background checks).

[FlameOfCallandor]

I kind of think gun ownership should be required. Not sure how that would work though.

[brawndolicious]

..like Switzerland?

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm all for mandatory military service for one or two years if you want to own an automatic firearm. i'm also for taxing the hell out of gun purchases and for requiring licenses.

[Gay Boy]

The pen is mightier than the sword.

I choked on my cracker.

I love guns and I agree with Prole's idea.  Include the government in it.  Tax that shit and make a gun DMV or some shit.  FUCK libertarianism.  You need special training if you're using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon.  Also make them illegal to buy or sell privately at gun shows (so you can do background checks).

I can agree with this.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I guess, like Switzerland. What would the gun tax money go to?

[Gay Boy]

stuff that the govt. is struggling to come up with ways to pay for, like health care.

[FlameOfCallandor]

stuff that the govt. is struggling to come up with ways to pay for, like health care.

Why would gun taxes go towards healthcare? that doesnt make any sense.

[T234]

As somebody who lives in a place where more guns are sold over a three-day period (Court Day) then what is sold in the entirety of Canada (Pop. 33 Million) during those same three days, and you can buy a Kalashnikov for ~$350, I'd say a little tightening is in order.


The "gun DMV" thing is a good idea. 

[brawndolicious]

yeah, every adult male has an AK-47 and knows how to use it (no doubt with government training).  Every adult male in Switzerland IS a soldier because of some weird neutrality politics.  You can use gun tax money on health care, that's a nice cycle.

T2, do they sell those guns at gun shows (so sort of legally)?  When I lived in Berkeley they constantly had these signs for gun shows (kind of ghetto area).

[Gay Boy]

stuff that the govt. is struggling to come up with ways to pay for, like health care.

Why would gun taxes go towards healthcare? that doesnt make any sense.

why are cigarettes taxes going towards paying for children's health care right now? It's not unprecedented.

And its a tactic widely supported by the public. cig taxes for kids health care was overwhelmingly approved of by public opinion.

[FlameOfCallandor]

What's the reasoning behind that though? It would be like the SCHIP and how its tied to cigarettes. It makes no fucking sense. Tax on gas going towards roads and bridges makes sense. tax on airline tickets going towards the FAA makes sense. Tax on guns going towards healthcare makes none.

[FlameOfCallandor]

why are cigarettes taxes going towards paying for children's health care right now? It's not unprecedented.

And its a tactic widely supported by the public. cig taxes for kids health care was overwhelmingly approved of by public opinion.

The public opinion is retrtded. Even the "healtchare hero" Michael Moore says that the method of payment is fucking stupid.

[T234]

No. Court Day is an event in the city of Mt. Sterling, KY. It is NOT a gun show, but just a festival (sort-of).

Depends upon the gun show I guess.

[Gay Boy]

FoC, how would you go about paying for universal health care then if it was passed by congress and signed by a president and we needed to find a way to pay for it and they asked you?

[FlameOfCallandor]

FoC, ow would you go about paying for universal health care then if it was passed by congress and signed by a president and we needed to find a way to pay for it and they asked you?

you dont, because its the worst fucking idea ever.

[brawndolicious]

No. Court Day is an event in the city of Mt. Sterling, KY. It is NOT a gun show, but just a festival (sort-of).
Depends upon the gun show I guess.

oh I see.  I know that it's legal even in pawn shops to buy semi-auto AK's but do they sell fully automatics?  Are these private sellers?

[Gay Boy]

FoC, ow would you go about paying for universal health care then if it was passed by congress and signed by a president and we needed to find a way to pay for it and they asked you?

you dont, because its the worst fucking idea ever.

I wonder why basically every other nation of comparable wealth has it then.

[FlameOfCallandor]

It's also why I dont understand income Tax. Why does our income need to be taxed? I dont understand it.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I wonder why basically every other nation of comparable wealth has it then.

Maybe you should try and get your state to pass it. That would be more comparable than the whole country since the demographic is similar.

[Gay Boy]

It's also why I dont understand income Tax. Why does our income need to be taxed? I dont understand it.

because the govt. needs money. its why ANYTHING is taxed. Govt needs money to pay for programs.

[FlameOfCallandor]

It's also why I dont understand income Tax. Why does our income need to be taxed? I dont understand it.

because the govt. needs money. its why ANYTHING is taxed. Govt needs money to pay for programs.

Think about what you just said.

I personally think individuals have a better understanding of how to manage their income.

[Gay Boy]

It's also why I dont understand income Tax. Why does our income need to be taxed? I dont understand it.

because the govt. needs money. its why ANYTHING is taxed. Govt needs money to pay for programs.

Think about what you just said.

I personally think individuals have a better understanding of how to manage their income.

Heres why we need taxes. The public wants govt. programs. They ask, beg,  and demand for them from univeral health care to you name it. Govt has to pay for what the public demands.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Things public universities.  good thing FoC went to survival school in Montana, which is paid for entirely in gold certificates and the sweat of the students.

Public universities get money from the state and tuition . I wont even get into why public funding makes universities more expensive.