Himumumu goes to Mecca

[brawndolicious]

I think Joe Brown, the mayor of Oakland, is Buddhist.  He once gave a speech a mosque where he said something about living with monks or something.  Very charismatic guy.  Is he still Oakland's mayor willco?

[Himu]

Finally, if you're not ready to challenge beliefs that were forced upon you at a young age, maybe you're not ready to make a decision about your beliefs on your own anyhow.

I have challenged the beliefs that were forced upon me at a young age. Thank you for the input guys.

[Human Snorenado]

Finally, if you're not ready to challenge beliefs that were forced upon you at a young age, maybe you're not ready to make a decision about your beliefs on your own anyhow.

I have challenged the beliefs that were forced upon me at a young age. Thank you for the input guys.

 

...converting to buddhism would force me to completely change my beliefs and every thing I was taught since I was a kid. Islam? Not so much.

It sounds like you're challenging yourself enough to move to another town but not considering the possibility of moving out of state to me.

[Himu]

While that's true, it's not like I don't have my problems with the religion I was brought up, and it's the reason why I have pretty much stopped going to church.

I haven't said that I *will* become Muslim. This is just an opportunity for me to see what other people believe and see if I fall in the same way. If I don't find anything for me, that's fine.

It's true I never considered becoming Buddhist or anything like that, but that is because I really *don't* believe in that type of thinking, but I find it all so interesting I read books on the subject. Willco's suggestion, that I check out all the different religions, sounds like the best plan. I'll see what fits me the best.

[Flannel Boy]

A pox to you all, my nonexistent god is angry.

There are good reasons to have beliefs and there are bad reasons to have beliefs. There is evidence for beliefs and evidence against beliefs. There are beliefs that clash with reality and there are beliefs that don't. Don't pick and choose based on your personal preference. Life is not a buffet of beliefs. Don't choose the ones that taste good. Choose the ones that are correct.

[FlameOfCallandor]

A pox to you all, my nonexistent god is angry.

There are good reasons to have beliefs and there are bad reasons to have beliefs. There is evidence for beliefs and evidence against beliefs. There are beliefs that clash with reality and there are beliefs that don't. Don't pick and choose based on your personal preference. Life is not a buffet of beliefs. Don't choose the ones that taste good. Choose the ones that are correct.

What's correct?

[Himu]

Sipping on Nyquil is correct.

[Flannel Boy]

Sipping on Nyquil is correct.

WRONG! CHUGGING on NyQuil is correct.

[Flannel Boy]

To be more specific; factual beliefs are either true or false. Obviously aesthetic beliefs or ethical beliefs, for example, are not true or false. But beliefs about how old the Earth is or whether Mohammed rode on a winged horse are true or false. They are not decided on by personal preferences.

[FlameOfCallandor]

To be more specific; factual beliefs are either true or false. Obviously aesthetic beliefs or ethical beliefs, for example, are not true or false. But beliefs about how old the Earth is or whether Mohammed rode on a winged horse are true or false. They are not decided on by personal preferences.

It's a good thing most christians dont try to make people believe those things.

[Flannel Boy]

To be more specific; factual beliefs are either true or false. Obviously aesthetic beliefs or ethical beliefs, for example, are not true or false. But beliefs about how old the Earth is or whether Mohammed rode on a winged horse are true or false. They are not decided on by personal preferences.

It's a good thing most christians dont try to make people believe those things.

Yes, I suppose it is a good thing that Christians don't try to force people to believe that Mohamed rode on a winged horse. 

Of course they have forced people to believe in many other things through the ages. Hell the Catholic Church burnt people for believing in atomism.

However I wasn't speaking of compelling people to believe anything.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Of course they have forced people to believe in many other things through the ages. Hell the Catholic Church burnt people for believing in atomism.

Oh When will the evil catholic church stop burning people at the steak, its 2007 for crying out load. When will this madness end.

[Barry Egan]

The madness hasn't ended at all.  Only the methods.

[FlameOfCallandor]

The madness hasn't ended at all.  Only the methods.

Yea?

[Flannel Boy]

Of course they have forced people to believe in many other things through the ages. Hell the Catholic Church burnt people for believing in atomism.

Oh When will the evil catholic church stop burning people at the steak, its 2007 for crying out load. When will this madness end.

You are the one who brought this up.

It's a good thing most christians dont try to make people believe those things.

This response was a total non sequitur to my previous post. Why don't you fuck off and go back to posting about a hopeless candidate who has no chance of winning anything, no matter how strong your beliefs in him are.

[Barry Egan]

The madness hasn't ended at all.  Only the methods.

Yea?

evolution is the new atomism!

[FlameOfCallandor]

I have never felt my view on evolution to be threatened and I went to school in Texas.

[Flannel Boy]

I have never felt my view on evolution to be threatened and I went to school in Texas.

Actually, being around slack jawed Texans should raise some doubts about evolution.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I have never felt my view on evolution to be threatened and I went to school in Texas.

Actually, being around slack jawed Texans should raise some doubts about evolution.

Huck Huck Huck

See you are more hateful than most christians.

[Flannel Boy]

I have never felt my view on evolution to be threatened and I went to school in Texas.

Actually, being around slack jawed Texans should raise some doubts about evolution.

Huck Huck Huck

See you are more hateful than most christians.

I never said I wasn't hate-filled. I'm as misanthropic as they come.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I never said I wasn't hate-filled. I'm as misanthropic as they come.

Then maybe you aren't the best person to talk to when it comes to discussions of the soul and human spirit.

[Flannel Boy]

I never said I wasn't hate-filled. I'm as misanthropic as they come.

Then maybe you aren't the best person to talk to when it comes to discussions of the soul and human spirit.

Soul? Spirit? sigh...

[Phoenix Dark]

If this is what you firmly believe Himu, good for you. If it's all about getting bomb ass arab pussy, good for you.

[Flannel Boy]

If this is what you firmly believe Himu, good for you. If it's all about getting bomb ass arab pussy, good for you.

Before going to the mosque you may want to stop by the home depot.

[Phoenix Dark]

bastard 

[TVC15]

Himuro, if you are seriously considering it, segue from reading about the crusades to the history of Islam.  You only have to jump backwards 400 or 500 years.  If you are interested in something, I believe the best thing to do is to start from its history.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Buddhist chicks are also great in bed.

I am interested in researching this particular point, any suggestions?

[Himu]

Ruzbeh, do you honestly think new converts for religions are all just random people who just suddenly appeared out of nowhere? No, people are interested in religions because they are attracted to what they believe. I firmly said in the first post that I am someone who believes that the western monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) all worship the same God, so it's not like I'm suddenly changing everything I've believed in my whole life, and pulling shit out of my ass. It's more like, I am tired of this fake ass Christian stuff where i go to church, see preacher make fake ass sermons and "praise the lord" and act like he's having a seizure every Sunday. I get nothing out of it. What the hell is wrong with checking out another religion ,which isn't even that far away from Christianity in the first place, if you feel you don't *get* much out of Christianity?

[Barry Egan]

all of those old codger religions are going to seem just as alienating to you as Christianity feels; they've all been rendered meaningless post-Enlightenment, and on some level you realize that.  Just embrace modernity and replace God with some Nietzsche and fulfilling life habits.  It's really not so bad

[Himu]

So you want to convert to Islam because you don't get much out of Christianity? I'm someone who tries to figure stuff on my own than have some people tell me how and what. So why do you wanna convert? Because you think you'll gain something? Learn more of life's lessons?

Ruzbeh, have you taken your austism meds today? Why does anyone go for ANY religion? FUCK OFF.

[Powerslave]

Ruzbeh, do you honestly think new converts for religions are all just random people who just suddenly appeared out of nowhere? No, people are interested in religions because they are attracted to what they believe. I firmly said in the first post that I am someone who believes that the western monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) all worship the same God, so it's not like I'm suddenly changing everything I've believed in my whole life, and pulling shit out of my ass. It's more like, I am tired of this fake ass Christian stuff where i go to church, see preacher make fake ass sermons and "praise the lord" and act like he's having a seizure every Sunday. I get nothing out of it. What the hell is wrong with checking out another religion ,which isn't even that far away from Christianity in the first place, if you feel you don't *get* much out of Christianity?

These are very good points.


This whole thing is very interesting Himuro. Although I'm not exactly religious these days, the subject still interests me and I don't consider myself an 100% atheist either.

[Himu]

What do you find interesting lol

[brawndolicious]

all of those old codger religions are going to seem just as alienating to you as Christianity feels; they've all been rendered meaningless post-Enlightenment, and on some level you realize that.  Just embrace modernity and replace God with some Nietzsche and fulfilling life habits.  It's really not so bad

what's changed a lot about Islam?  I didn't know about this.

[Fresh Prince]

Ruzbeh, do you honestly think new converts for religions are all just random people who just suddenly appeared out of nowhere? No, people are interested in religions because they are attracted to what they believe. I firmly said in the first post that I am someone who believes that the western monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) all worship the same God, so it's not like I'm suddenly changing everything I've believed in my whole life, and pulling shit out of my ass. It's more like, I am tired of this fake ass Christian stuff where i go to church, see preacher make fake ass sermons and "praise the lord" and act like he's having a seizure every Sunday. I get nothing out of it. What the hell is wrong with checking out another religion ,which isn't even that far away from Christianity in the first place, if you feel you don't *get* much out of Christianity?

Gospel Church doesn't equal the whole of Christianity. There are other denominations with a version of Christianity that imaybe more inline with your thoughts, spiritualism etc. 
It isn't like Islam is immune from the 'showman' aspect of religion.

[brawndolicious]

it downplays it a lot.

[Fresh Prince]

They should but various Mullahs have gone in frenetic rants to instigate protests and action, not the calm and considered reasoning to develop consesus. 

[Barry Egan]

all of those old codger religions are going to seem just as alienating to you as Christianity feels; they've all been rendered meaningless post-Enlightenment, and on some level you realize that.  Just embrace modernity and replace God with some Nietzsche and fulfilling life habits.  It's really not so bad

what's changed a lot about Islam?  I didn't know about this.

Nothing.  The world around it clearly has though.

[VALIS]

all of those old codger religions are going to seem just as alienating to you as Christianity feels; they've all been rendered meaningless post-Enlightenment, and on some level you realize that.  Just embrace modernity and replace God with some Nietzsche and fulfilling life habits.  It's really not so bad

Is your Alan Watts avatar out of irony then? Because he appreciated all religions quite a bit. Or, at least, he tended to focus on the positive and interesting facets.

[Barry Egan]

Hmm, I've always seen Watts as more of an existential mystic than anything.  I've definitely heard him make light of the Church on a few occasions in favor of a more direct experience with the spiritual.  And I'm sure he doesn't advocate dogma.  I'm a moral relativist and I don't see anything wrong with religion, I just like to promote critical thinking when there's an opportunity.

[brawndolicious]

They should but various Mullahs have gone in frenetic rants to instigate protests and action, not the calm and considered reasoning to develop consesus. 

yeah but he's in america so..

[Fresh Prince]

They should but various Mullahs have gone in frenetic rants to instigate protests and action, not the calm and considered reasoning to develop consesus. 

yeah but he's in america so..

This guy is in Australia: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article614983.ece
He could of said what he wanted to say in a much more roundabout (and devious) manner, still got his 'message' across but he wanted to get attention.

[VALIS]

I've definitely heard him make light of the Church on a few occasions in favor of a more direct experience with the spiritual.  And I'm sure he doesn't advocate dogma.

Indeed, but he also didn't discard the good parts from the world's religions, which is one of the things that's most impressive about Watts and any of the great "spiritual teachers" -- they didn't write or lecture or teach out of bitterness or anger or ego, they just presented their insights and learnings and let you make of them what you wanted to. Not as a reaction to something or an attempt to bring something else down. Which is a concept that unfortunately sails right over the heads of many hardcore theists and atheists these days (or maybe it always did, I don't know).

[brawndolicious]

This guy is in Australia: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article614983.ece
He could of said what he wanted to say in a much more roundabout (and devious) manner, still got his 'message' across but he wanted to get attention.

0_0

well he's probably not at risk of ever seeing a mullah without respect for women in his life.  even if you say that in iran, I'm sure you'll get booed.  the fact is that A. islam tries to downplay "energy" being used to make people excited for religion (you can't even have drawings/sculptures of prophets) and B. he is not likely to find a fucked up mullah unless he searches across america for it.

I personally have never seen a muslim that thinks women are less than equal or any other fucked up "terrorist" types of things.  I've seen hundreds of speeches by people with wildly different views on how to interpret the quran and history and whatnot but none of them said stuff like that so it's safe to assume that himuro is not at risk of seeing islam perverted if he just searches in mosques around where he lives.

[Himu]

Ruzbeh, do you honestly think new converts for religions are all just random people who just suddenly appeared out of nowhere? No, people are interested in religions because they are attracted to what they believe. I firmly said in the first post that I am someone who believes that the western monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) all worship the same God, so it's not like I'm suddenly changing everything I've believed in my whole life, and pulling shit out of my ass. It's more like, I am tired of this fake ass Christian stuff where i go to church, see preacher make fake ass sermons and "praise the lord" and act like he's having a seizure every Sunday. I get nothing out of it. What the hell is wrong with checking out another religion ,which isn't even that far away from Christianity in the first place, if you feel you don't *get* much out of Christianity?

Gospel Church doesn't equal the whole of Christianity. There are other denominations with a version of Christianity that imaybe more inline with your thoughts, spiritualism etc.

It isn't like that's the only thing unappealing about Christianity to me. My entire life I've questioned Jesus and his supposed sacrificing for my sins. I never understood how his death was a sacrifice for my sins and since he died all people who aren't Jews can now go into Heaven or whatever. I never understood it, and I never believed it. It's hard to be Christian when you don't understand or even believe such a basic aspect of the religion. I've felt this way ever since High School, but this is the first time I've comtemplated looking outside Christianity.

[Fresh Prince]

It isn't like that's the only thing unappealing about Christianity to me. My entire life I've questioned Jesus and his supposed sacrificing for my sins. I never understood how his death was a sacrifice for my sins and since he died all people who aren't Jews can now go into Heaven or whatever. I never understood it, and I never believed it. It's hard to be Christian when you don't understand or even believe such a basic aspect of the religion. I've felt this way ever since High School, but this is the first time I've comtemplated looking outside Christianity.

From what I remember of Catholic school, Jesus died to primarily give hope of eternal life i.e. Heaven. If you don't believe in Jesus then you don't believe his sacrifice led to eternal life so that's why you don't go to heaven. The forgiving of the sins through his death is the forgiveness of the original sin which also meant you can enter heaven\eden etc. 

[Himu]

I believe Jesus existed but not all of that

[Fresh Prince]

I believe Jesus existed but not all of that

Do you think of him as a prophet then as most Muslims do?

[brawndolicious]

islam says that god didn't think humanity was worth having jesus die for it or something.  I think the belief is that it was a look alike of jesus that was actually caught but I haven't asked about that in a long time.

I think islam also denies the whole virgin birthing thing or whatever.  I'm not sure.

[MCD]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_Jesus

[Phoenix Dark]

islam says that god didn't think humanity was worth having jesus die for it or something.  I think the belief is that it was a look alike of jesus that was actually caught but I haven't asked about that in a long time.

I think islam also denies the whole virgin birthing thing or whatever.  I'm not sure.

Nah, it agrees on the virgin birth as well as many other things. But obviously it disagrees on the major issue of whether Jesus is the son of god. Islam rejects the trinity belief

[brawndolicious]

yeah it says he was a major prophet though.  not from god's balls or whatever.

back on topic, you'd have to talk with a mullah (I'd honestly only trust one that's a black convert because they're the most common converts around here and they are by far the most open minded to what your personal spiritual beliefs are) and figure out whether islam is for you.

[Himu]

Man, I drove over to what I thought was a mosque today, because there is a huge golden ball on topthat is usually tied to Islam mosque's in the middle east. Turns out it was some Christian church for mexicans wtf

Anyway these pictures are beautiful.





A part of my attraction to Islam is that it all feels one brotherhood. These pictures show a good example of this.

This is a great site for me

I believe Jesus existed but not all of that

Do you think of him as a prophet then as most Muslims do?

Yes.

[Phoenix Dark]

So you don't think Jesus=God? Interesting.

Those are awesome pics; reminds me a bit of 2001

[Powerslave]

Wait, why do Christians think Jesus=God if he's the son of God?

[Barry Egan]

(Image removed from quote.)

woah.  That's a powerful image.

[Flannel Boy]

Powerfully gay.

[Himu]

Wait, why do Christians think Jesus=God if he's the son of God?

This is why that shit was always confusing. Some Christians think he's the SON OF GOD which I don't understand since how the hell can God have a son? Especially since they explicitly say that Mary got pregnant with no man? Hence, Jesus is not God's "son"?

Then you have Christians who are like WELL JESUS IS GOD. Which doesn't make even more sense because Jesus DIED and God cannot DIE.

Then you have the fact that in order to go to heaven according to Christian faith, you must believe Jesus is the son of God, and I don't know wtf to think

[Fresh Prince]

Jesus didn't die he rose again on the third day and went to heaven which basically 'proved' he was God's son.

Catholicism basically says that 'God' is three in one or trinity. Old Testament God, Jesus son of God and the Holy Ghost\Spirit. There is some sort analogy I remember which I think goes like this the Holy Spirit is the electricity, Jesus is the switch and God is the light or maybe it's mixed around. Something to the effect of one of them being the human/God relationship, the second being 'Gods' energy and the last being the God's will or action.

[Himu]

Woot. I found a mosque in my part of town! 

http://www.islamic-information.com/

Going tomorrow

[Himu]

Guys, here's an interesting article on the differences between Christianity and Islam. It's a good read.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/comp_isl_chr.htm