Oh Jesus Fuck, Rob Zombie's Halloween is. . .

[TVC15]

. . .unspeakably awful.  I turned it off after 5 minutes, before my precious Caligula even got to appear.

This makes Basic Instinct 2 look great.  At least that movie was a ridiculously shallow ego-stroking implement for Sharon Stone, which made for inadvertantly hilarious viewing.

Halloween is, well, I'm not qualified to say what it is since I already gave up on it.  But what the fuck is with Rob Zombie's white trash fixation?  It pops up in House of 1000 Corpses and The Devil's Rejects, but the pedal is to the metal here.  They aren't the entertaining redneck via Texas Chainsaw Massacre hillbillies of previous flicks; here we get what appears to be a legitimate attempt to emulate actual white trash.  It's not funny, or scary, or offensive, it's just stupid with lots of cursing and yelling and inappropriate rednecky comments.  Every second seems to feel the need to out-white trash the previous white trashy second, just so you know how hard core white trash keepin it real white trash this white trash family is.  White trash!

And that's where I quit.  I called the game on account of Trying to Hard.  What it was trying to do, I have no fucking clue.  I guess this falls into all the background stuff people complained about; the "trying to explain michael" stuff.  Personally, I'd have no real issue with Zombie trying to explain Michael if it weren't done in such a juvenile, stupid, "let's laugh at the rednecks now--but you won't laugh later!" way.

This, my friends, is distinguished mentally-challenged.  Phoenix Dark level.

[EvilBoris]

 And you purchased it you fool.

[TVC15]

And you purchased it you fool.

I liked his previous two movies.  I will sit through this, I promise.

[Phoenix Dark]

And that's where I quit.  I called the game on account of Trying to Hard. 

...and you like his other two films though? Hm

[Bloodwake]

Hopefully you got the unrated, because the Smith's Grove sequences are much more fleshed out and better in it.

As for the beginning sequence, I mean, I would kill my family too if they were that much white trash. That's one thing I don't understand about Halloween: it's almost as if you see reason in some of Michael's actions in the film. Instead of disturbing, which is what I think horror should do, we are satisfied to see these fucking white trash asscocks die.

[Bloodwake]

If you stuck along, it made the contrast between Laurie's real family and Laurie's foster family seem greater. That was something I appreciated about the white trash parts.

[Joe Molotov]

One of the worst movies of the year.

[Ecrofirt]

I really enjoyed Zombie's Halloween. Saw it twice in theaters and watched the workprint. I'll post more at work.

[abrader]

yeah i dont know what to think - I remember thinking WTF when I saw the thread where you decree that it is the home video release of the year....

Ill take Classic Halloween and no impostors kthx.

[Solo]

It does get better, Whitey. I agree that the opening with William Forsythe's Ronnie is painfully awful, but the second half of the movie gets better.

Its odd though, as William Forsythe's character was the best part of TDR.

[Ecrofirt]

My perfect cut of the movie would have the following:
The rape scene from the workprint, followed by the Danny Trejo death scene (essentially, just get rid of him hulking out of the chains and replace it with the rape)
The cemetery scene from the theatrical release
The extra shots of Laurie's mom dying
The ending from the theatrical release*


* - The ending choice was very hard, because I like both endings.

[The Fake Shemp]

I adamantly disagree with Solo and Ecrofirt - the movie really doesn't get better at all.  The best scene in the movie is early on, a bit after you stopped watching the film, but the rest of the movie sucks because after Smith's Grove as well, it turns into a condensed, shot-for-shot regurgitation of the Carpenter original.  Except faster and trashier!

[Human Snorenado]

I actually agree with Federwang on this one, which is a rarity.

[The Fake Shemp]

It's one thing if you are going to make a movie that really doesn't need to be made; the original Halloween hasn't lost any of its staying power and is just as iconic now as it was when it was originally released.  Yet, Zombie managed to turn in a made-for-SciFi caliber production (complete with enough Grade-B actors that CHUD asked if it was filmed in the guest parking lot during San Diego ComiCon) that doesn't bring anything to series other than the thought of, "Hey, why the fuck don't I just watch the original?"

[abrader]

It's one thing if you are going to make a movie that really doesn't need to be made; the original Halloween hasn't lost any of its staying power and is just as iconic now as it was when it was originally released.  Yet, Zombie managed to turn in a made-for-SciFi caliber production (complete with enough Grade-B actors that CHUD asked if it was filmed in the guest parking lot during San Diego ComiCon) that doesn't bring anything to series other than the thought of, "Hey, why the fuck don't I just watch the original?"

hammer + nail = on the head.

[Mupepe]

plus, why the fuck does he put his wife in it?  she sucks.

[Joe Molotov]

plus, why the fuck does he put his wife in it?  she sucks.

At least make her show her boobies, I mean geez.

[Mupepe]

agreed.  she has an annoying fucking voice and she can't act.

[recursivelyenumerable]

but her name is "Sheri Moon Zombie".  That's amazing enough to justify putting her anywhere and everywhere.

[Saint Cornelius]

And that's where I quit.  I called the game on account of Trying to Hard.

Settle down.

By the way, I heard that this movie sucked, yes... but the deaths were fucking unbelieveably brutal.

[TVC15]

It was late, Corny!

[recursivelyenumerable]

why wouldn't someone sick enough to watch a movie for "brutal deaths" just watch al-Qaeda beheading videos instead?

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm all for watching a mediocre horror film for inventive deaths (Final Destination 2!), but a good portion of the kills were stolen from the original or elsewhere.  Homage?  Pfft.

[Joe Molotov]

And that's where I quit.  I called the game on account of Trying to Hard.

Settle down.

By the way, I heard that this movie sucked, yes... but the deaths were fucking unbelieveably brutal.

Meh, I've seen better. Besides, there's way too much torture-porn clogging the cineplexes already for brutal deaths to be much of a selling point.

[Bloodwake]

My perfect cut of the movie would have the following:
The rape scene from the workprint, followed by the Danny Trejo death scene (essentially, just get rid of him hulking out of the chains and replace it with the rape)
The cemetery scene from the theatrical release
The extra shots of Laurie's mom dying
The ending from the theatrical release*


* - The ending choice was very hard, because I like both endings.

This is basically the unrated edition. Purchase immediately.

[Bloodwake]

The stuff that is different is good. Smith's Grove is great, and the ending was really good. The rest of the stuff was adequate. I enjoyed the film overall. I mean, it's not on the level of some of the other movies I have seen this year, but it was good.

[Saint Cornelius]

why wouldn't someone sick enough to watch a movie for "brutal deaths" just watch al-Qaeda beheading videos instead?

because I'd rather see some phony bullshit than actual human suffering? think before you type, idiot.

Meh, I've seen better. Besides, there's way too much torture-porn clogging the cineplexes already for brutal deaths to be much of a selling point.

personally, after watching Murder Set Pieces, nothing can shock me. well the rape scene in Irreversible, maybe.

[The Fake Shemp]

The Smith's Grove stuff was pure shit.  That little kid who plays Michael cannot act whatsoever and McDowell wears the worst wig in the history of film as he phones in his performance.  You can literally see him cashing in his check.

[TVC15]

You ever see the August Underground movies, Corny?  I personally think they are kind of stupid, but if you are all EXXXTREME I think you need to evaluate them.

I'll give Halloween another shot tonight.  I was just coming off of like 4 hours of Blade Runner last night, and besides that, I don't see how the redneck family part can't be the nadir of the movie.  It has to get better from there.

I dunno, there's something about the Rob Zombie movies.  Just the fact that a white trash family in his previous two movies would be played up for yucks, but here it's SERIOUS.  It's like Zombie only knows how to do one thing.  For Rob Zombie, white trash is the equivalent to overpasses for me.

[abrader]

Halloween Vs. RZ's Halloween

is analogous to

Black Christmas Vs. 2006 Black Christmas

[Bloodwake]

The Smith's Grove stuff was pure shit.  That little kid who plays Michael cannot act whatsoever and McDowell wears the worst wig in the history of film as he phones in his performance.  You can literally see him cashing in his check.

Again, the unrated cut. They add some scenes that weren't in the theatrical or the work print. Mainly black and while shots with McDowell voiceovers. It's basically some shots of him standing around in some of the creepier masks that weren't seen in the theatrical. It really adds to the film IMO, because I thought the Smith's Grove sequence was adequate, but lacking.

It's obvious from the casting on the special features that they had better child actors (the kid who played Tommy, while not that much better, kicked Daeg Faerch's ass with his performance in the screen tests) but that Zombie used Faerch because he looks creepier. It's evident that the decision was justified whenever I watched the added VO scenes, with the kid wearing the mask, what direction Zombie took with it and why.

I'm definitely glad they took the grown up Michael Myers dialogue out of it as well, some of the dialogue was used for the actors (Scout-Taylor Compton, specifically) to respond to in the screen tests, and it was utter shit.

I see Zombie's reasoning to use Faerch, but damn, if they would have used the child actor who played Tommy, it would have been a totally different film. They could have used him and made a Norman Batesish type child character, a skinny kid who isn't that intimidating, but could have been believable as a quiet psychopath. Faerch's only good scene was the bathroom scene where he tells the principal "Fuck You." The rest of it I try to forget.

It's by far not a perfect film, but in terms of some of the horror movies I've seen recently, much better than some of the crap Hollywood shits into theatres... mainly because I see some actual decisions and work put into the film. I like the new Halloween, but I'm not about to put it over the Carpenter original. There are some things clicking in it though, and it does succeed on a level.

It's around a 6.5 or 7 IMO.

[TVC15]

How is Malcolm McDowell in it?  I am kinda a fanboy.

[The Fake Shemp]

McDowell phones in one of his worst performances in ages, and I really like McDowell. The script sucks, so it doesn't give him much to work with, but even worse is the awful, fake wig Zombie forces him to wear.

Like I said, I think you can see hin cashing his paycheck on screen. Maybe he needed a new house or something.

The Smith Grove segment bogs the movie down and I don't care if the unrated cut contains the best scene in he history of cinema - then it merely elevates this film from horrible to bad, as if it wre some kind of accomplishment.

I wish this were an epic Zombie trainwreck (ala Raimi), because the it'd be atl least worth a viewing. Instead, he tried to replicate Carpenter with his white trash fetish and the result is not just insulting, but boring.

[Saint Cornelius]

You ever see the August Underground movies, Corny?  I personally think they are kind of stupid, but if you are all EXXXTREME I think you need to evaluate them.

Oh man, I read about those flicks and I don't think I could stomach them. At least MDS had SOME kind of plot (a really shitty, horribly written one, but one nonetheless) where Mordum is just about abducting people, raping them and then dismembering them slowly. That's too real for me.

But the Guinea Pig series I can handle. Maybe it's because Japs don't have souls.

[Eel O'Brian]

Nekromantik and Nekromantik II.  You'll pretty much want to kill yourself after watching those.

[Robo]

The Nekromantik movies would actually be pretty fun if they didn't have all the weird animal butchering stuff.  Goddamn foreigners.

[TVC15]

I'm going to take a nap and then try to watch it again.  I'm tired after work today.  I'd try to watch Halloween in bed, but I'd probably just fall asleep.

[TVC15]

Sweet fuck, please tell me McDowell doesn't have that wig on for the whole movie.

[Joe Molotov]

Sweet fuck, please tell me McDowell doesn't have that wig on for the whole movie.

No, but you should probably bail out now anyway. You're fighting a losing battle, man!

[Van Cruncheon]

why wouldn't someone sick enough to watch a movie for "brutal deaths" just watch al-Qaeda beheading videos instead?

because I'd rather see some phony bullshit than actual human suffering? think before you type, idiot.

Meh, I've seen better. Besides, there's way too much torture-porn clogging the cineplexes already for brutal deaths to be much of a selling point.

personally, after watching Murder Set Pieces, nothing can shock me. well the rape scene in Irreversible, maybe.

was murder-set-pieces THAT shocking? my brother thought it was pretty cheesy, and he loves ultraviolent movies. the scene in irreversible, though...and monica belucci...oh god :'(

august underground is just fetishistic and tedious -- it's like pure gross-out shock shit. the guinea pigs are at least weird enough to almost -- almost! -- have transgressive merit, although again i get that creepy feeling that there are folks who get off on this stuff, which ooks me more than the movies themselves. me, i'll occasionally watch shit like that just to test my limits and because i have a terrible, terrible morbid curiosity. i really REALLY gotta be at LEAST a little baked up before i do, though.

[recursivelyenumerable]

because I'd rather see some phony bullshit than actual human suffering?

but you're enjoying the scene for its depiction of human suffering.  the AQ beheading videos are just videos, nobody actually gets re-killed when you watch one again.

[Van Cruncheon]

so when we watch lachrymose dramas and tragedies, we enjoy seeing relationships ruined, families torn apart, people in the throes of depression, and the failings of the human condition? that it's all just some perverse exercise in schadenfreude?

part of the human condition is to try and understand experiences other than our own, and sometimes, exposing ourselves to raw violence and terror is just as intriguing as exposing ourselves to tragedy, sadness, futility, and the other unpleasantries that cinema can safely present to us. hence: morbid curiosity.

that said, some "gore" movies aren't exercises in transgression and instead are totally pornographic, and those are largely contemptible. however, physical suffering can potentially be a cinematic experience just like mental and spiritual anguish, or joy, or celebration, or existential ennui, or alienation, or a billion other human conditions that can be part and parcel of great statements in the hands of someone with talent and broader message.

[recursivelyenumerable]

if you watch them e.g. "for brutal breakup scenes" perhaps.  it's like violence, which can have legitimate functions in movies, either for the action (to add tension) or for the story (lotsa stuff).  if you appreciate the use of depictions of violence to support other things, that can be fine, but if you watch the movies FOR the violence, you are a sick fuck.

edit in response to your edit: yes.  the key phrase is "broader message".  "i hear the movie sucked but has awesome brutal deaths!" sounds like watching it FOR the brutal deaths.

[Van Cruncheon]

there's no reason to watch "house of sand and fog" for any other reason than to see a woman utterly ruin her life and another family's. yet it received a fair bit of critical acclaim. is watching it an exercise in schadenfreude, or do you think we can learn something about ourselves and human nature when see people in extremis?

[recursivelyenumerable]

i think i've let you lead me astray a bit actually.  there's an important difference between "brutal deaths" and "brutal breakup scenes" in that brutal deaths lend themselves too much to portrayal as a mechanical event, rather than a socially situated process.  or something like that, I've been up 32 hours and can't really argue this properly atm

[Christopher]

Laurie seemed like a cunt in this one - but still pretty cute. 

I saw this with friends and ehhh I didn't think too much of it either way.

[The Fake Shemp]

Christopher brings up another huge problem I had with this re imagining or whatever the fuck you want to call it - the dialogue for the teenage girls.  Now, I get to see teenagers day in and day out working retail, and whilst the word "bitch" is tossed around, nothing compares to the barrage of "bitch"-alogue (trademarked, assholes) that your are pummeled with in Rob Zombie's script.  Apparently, Rob thinks all teenage girls use the word "bitch" in every, single sentence.

Now, Carpenter knew at his age that he was too far removed to write relevant dialogue for teenage girls, so he - gasp! - gave those duties to the actual young women.  But to compare Carpenter and Zombie's egos is an exercise in futility.

[TVC15]

Eh, I don't think this is that bad anymore.  More mediocre than bad.  Going by the numbers, it's probably actually one of the better Halloween sequels.

Actually, I like the dialogue for the most part.  Maybe it is a bit too crass, but at least it spices up a kinda ho-hum movie.  Once Michael gets to Haddonfield, it is totally textbook.

[The Fake Shemp]

Once Michael gets to Haddonfield, the reimagining just turns into a condensed, amped up version of Carpenter's classic.  And considering that the more the film tries to duplicate the 70s original, and goes from horrible to mediocre, I think it speaks more about the source material than Zombie.

[TVC15]

Once Michael gets to Haddonfield, the reimagining just turns into a condensed, amped up version of Carpenter's classic.  And considering that the more the film tries to duplicate the 70s original, and goes from horrible to mediocre, I think it speaks more about the source material than Zombie.

I think the movie has some good bits.  All the stuff at the asylum was a good idea, even if the execution was a bit anti-climactic.  It seems like a lot of stuff was sacrificed so the asylum bit could be in there, though.  No explanation on how Michael got to Haddonfield, no explanation on how he gets around Haddonfield.  The deaths seem to happen one right after another, giving the effect that Michael is like everywhere at once.  Look, he's murdering Laurie's parents!  30 seconds later, now he's murdering Laurie's friend!  Now he's murdering the other!  It's like he's omnipotent.

Also, Loomis's behaviour is whacked.  By the time Loomis first contacts the police, it's already dark and Michael has killed a half dozen people.  Loomis, he's been in town for hours, visiting the cemetary, buying a gun, but did he notify the police that the psychopathic killer from 15 years ago is back?  Fuck no! m To McDowell's credit, when he gets manic and crazy, he kinda sounds like Donald Pleasance.

I'll also echo the sentiment that the movie is better when it's doing its own thing.  The deaths and scenes that are direct throwbacks just seem cheesy, like they're corny landmarks or something.

Most of the movie is so middle-of-the-road that I'm surprised it came from Zombie.  It has little of the visual flair of his past two flicks, and to borrow a word from our forum dumbass PD, it's so pedestrian for a horror movie.  It plays just about everything straight, breaks no rules, offers no surprises.

Anyway, I came in wanting a trainwreck, and instead I got a 6/10.  I am disappointed that the movie is not as terrible as I was lead to believe.

[The Fake Shemp]

I think it deserves a point, maybe two, lower.  It's just boring.

The best scene in the entire movie...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

... is when young Michael brutally murders the bully from school.

[close]

It was brutal and unflinching, and showed a darkness in Michael that the original only talked about ("He's pure evil!", Pleasance reminds us, but here we see the real deal).  And that's a shame, because it's so early on that the entire movie is downhill from there.  I really don't care for it at all, and it's hard to find much in the way to like about this.  It kind of feels like defiling a corpse.

[Van Cruncheon]

is it better than transformers

[The Fake Shemp]

No!

Transformers is my cross to bear, just as giving Ocarina of Time a 98 (or whatever it was) is yours.

[Van Cruncheon]

i gave it a 96, -and- i recanted! ocarina is an 80-ish game. i was overwhelmed by bilinear filtering!

now it's your turn!

[TVC15]

is it better than transformers

I thought it was less boring than Transformers.  Transformers was a fucking terrible, fucking long ass movie.

[brawndolicious]

you just compared transformers to a zelda game?  that movie didn't have a single interesting scene.  the transformations were kind of cool the first time but the rest of the movie was shit.

[TVC15]

I would rather watch the Irreversible rape scene on repeat for three hours than to see Transformers again.  Worst movie I have seen in theatres since The Phantom Menace!

[Ecrofirt]

Jesus fuck Willco, I think we get it. Zombie's Halloween comes nowhere near the dingy, cum-stained shrine you've set up for Carpenter's classic in your eyes. How many times are you going to repeat yourself in one topic?

[TVC15]

I'm not sure if I've stated my opinion before, but I don't hold the original movie to be some sort of untouchable classic.  It established a genre and did it well.  It's a classic because it's important, but I don't think it's particularly great by universal standards.  Although Loomis owns and the soundtrack owns.  Halloween wouldn't be that close to the top of my favorite Carpenter Movies list.

[The Fake Shemp]

Jesus fuck Willco, I think we get it. Zombie's Halloween comes nowhere near the dingy, cum-stained shrine you've set up for Carpenter's classic in your eyes. How many times are you going to repeat yourself in one topic?

AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES, ZOMBIE'S REMAKE IS PURE EVIL