This Obama bitter stuff

[AdmiralViscen]

When I saw a few seconds of the news last night and they were making a big deal about "Obama calling Pennsylvanians bitter," I thought it was a pretty lame line of attack. But I checked this out

[youtube=425,350]krztzebJgMc[/youtube]

And it seems like a pretty big dick move. Hm?

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama's point was obvious, but easily spun in a negative manner if you want to; especially considering he's already considered arrogant, not concerned with the average blue collar worker. But his point was spot on imo, and anyone who has relatives in similar areas who have lost jobs will say the same thing. Whenever a politician airs out a state/community's dirty laundry some people are going to get upset.

It's not like he's going to win Penn anyway so I wouldn't be too concerned. I just wonder if some conservatives will try to find race in the comment *sigh*

[AdmiralViscen]

More like atheism.

[Flannel Boy]

Clearly, upper class liberals working in high status professions are not going to lose their jobs to third world illegal immigrants. It's so easy for them to look down on working class whites and call them bitter. 

[Candyflip]

they cling to...religion

Oh god. He dun fucked up.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Classic illustration of "a gaffe is when a politician tells the truth"

[FlameOfCallandor]

Obama's comments were very dumb. "


But its also dumb to think that the executive branch should somehow be able to revive the small towns across america. 

[Phoenix Dark]

Why are they dumb FoC?

[FlameOfCallandor]

Obama said Small town america is dumb because they hold on tow dumb value like guns and religion. That shows a total lack of understanding for the situation and a complete lack of awareness. He tries to generalize a situation by blaming them for being "intolerant towards immigrants"  What would you say if Mccain said that Black people are bitter and that they cling to old fashion values like fried chicken and basketballs. It's absurd.

[Fresh Prince]

Clearly, upper class liberals working in high status professions are not going to lose their jobs to third world illegal immigrants. It's so easy for them to look down on working class whites and call them bitter. 

Apart from the illegal immigrant bit it's already happened to IT and soon to move on (if it hasn't already) to accounting, engineering and other professions. Go to some tech sites e.g. Slashdot and there are plenty of bitter IT people there.


Obama's done- the religion part's killed him. And oddly FoC is right about Obama's gross stereotyping.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Also, what if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white people for their problems? You think Jesse Jackson wouldn't have a field day with that?

[Candyflip]

Also, what if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white people for their problems? You think Jesse Jackson wouldn't have a field day with that?

LOL

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama said Small town america is dumb because they hold on tow dumb value like guns and religion.

He never said that.

What would you say if Mccain said that Black people are bitter and that they cling to old fashion values like fried chicken and basketballs. It's absurd.

Even you must realize that's an absurd analogy. 

[FlameOfCallandor]

Why not he basically scoffed at the idea that anyone who practices religion and likes guns (both specifically protected in the constitution) must be a small town ignorant.

[Phoenix Dark]

Why not he basically scoffed at the idea that anyone who practices religion and likes guns (both specifically protected in the constitution) must be a small town ignorant.

He didn't "basically" say anything of the sort. He merely stated the obvious: many rural working class people have been ignored by the government so long that they grow estranged from economic politics, and instead focus on issues that actually have meaning for them, issues that are there for them - guns, god, etc. And then he said it's not shocking that some become bitter and feel slighted with respect to issues like immigration.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Hey PeeDee would this make you mad if Mccain said this.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get black people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to basketball or rap music or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

[FlameOfCallandor]

He didn't "basically" say anything of the sort. He merely stated the obvious: many rural working class people have been ignored by the government so long that they grow estranged from economic politics, and instead focus on issues that actually have meaning for them, issues that are there for them - guns, god, etc. And then he said it's not shocking that some become bitter and feel slighted with respect to issues like immigration.

Maybe just maybe, some people fell "religion and guns" are important.

[Fresh Prince]

FoC, Obama's statements could very well apply to black people in rural towns as well. This issue is more about the rural and urban divide than race.

[FlameOfCallandor]

FoC, Obama's statements could very well apply to black people in rural towns as well. This issue is more about the rural and urban divide than race.

Yea i completely understand that. I was just trying to get PeeDee to understand why some people might be offended by what he said.

[FlameOfCallandor]

After this comment im almost certain that Mccain will be the next president.

[Phoenix Dark]

Hey PeeDee would this make you mad if Mccain said this.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get black people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to basketball or rap music or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

The fact that you are seriously add rap music and basketball to this is laughable. African Americans are among the most religious people in this country. Obama's comments don't apply to just white people - are you suggesting only whites live in rural areas? I've got second and third cousins who live in rural areas of the north and south, and I can't think of a better way to describe them than "bitter." And you know what? They would agree.

In no way did Obama knock people's religion or gun preferences

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm not saying that his comments were aimed at white people Im only trying to make your thick skull realize why somebody might be offended by what he said.

The fact that you are seriously add rap music and basketball to this is laughable

No it's worse that he said religion and guns, two things specifically protected in the constitution. Yea those old country folk should support me cause I can lead them to the promise land. Dont worry about those old values you cherish.

[AdmiralViscen]

He tried to say that their beliefs in gun rights and religion were based more on trying to find an outlet for their economic situation than some more rational basis.

And FoC definitely wasn't saying Obama's comment was racist.

[Phoenix Dark]

I understand why people could get upset over the comments, especially if they grossly take them out of context as you are.

Obama's comments were spot on, and I'd imagine most people have relatives in similar situations. He's not saying people turn to guns and god as crutches, he's saying they turn to the issues they can rely on, the issues that haven't and cannot be taken away.

[FlameOfCallandor]

He tried to say that their beliefs in gun rights and religion were based more on trying to find an outlet for their economic situation than some more rational basis.

If Obama believes that then he is out of touch with small town america.

[recursivelyenumerable]

You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to...antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment

uh, in his March 18 speech in Philadelphia Obama basically did say that!

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family contributed to the erosion of black families — a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods — parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pickup, building code enforcement — all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continues to haunt us. [...] the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. [...] At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings. [...] That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity within the African-American community in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. [...] In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. [...] Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze [...]

This thread has convinced me that certain people should not be allowed to make analogies.

[AdmiralViscen]

I understand why people could get upset over the comments, especially if they grossly take them out of context as you are.

Obama's comments were spot on, and I'd imagine most people have relatives in similar situations. He's not saying people turn to guns and god as crutches, he's saying they turn to the issues they can rely on, the issues that haven't and cannot be taken away.

I don't think he meant it, it was just another flub like 'typical white woman' and 'first time I love this country.' He should come out and explain himself yet again instead of scoffing about being out of touch in a speech.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Obama can say that because he is black. I'm saying that if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white  people, then the usual "black leaders" would be up in arms.

[bdoughty]

PD...  Why run of to GAFFYWORLD and post what FOC said?  Come on man you are better than that.


What Obama said was wrong and that he trivialized their religious beliefs. Of course how dare an Obama supporter see any fault in what their candidate says. As if the man can do no wrong. Almost glad none of the mods at GAF will give me posting privileges in the OT section as it would have only lasted a few minutes.

[AdmiralViscen]

Are you calling PD a blind Obama supporter?

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama can say that because he is black. I'm saying that if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white  people, then the usual "black leaders" would be up in arms.

Why do people who can't participate in a construction discussion on race rely on hypothetical analogies that grossly miss the point? First you stated the comments had no racial connotations, yet here you once again try to switch things into a race analogy to fit your poor argument.

Once again, Obama's comments apply to many black people, and many white people. It's not a race issue, it's about class and economy

[bdoughty]

Obama can say that because he is black. I'm saying that if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white  people, then the usual "black leaders" would be up in arms.

That is true. Imagine if a white person said half the things that Charles Barkley says on air.

[bdoughty]

Are you calling PD a blind Obama supporter?

 , No...  he has bigger issues with his candidate of choice.  I was referring to almost all of GAF.

[Phoenix Dark]

PD...  Why run of to GAFFYWORLD and post what FOC said?  Come on man you are better than that.


What Obama said was wrong and that he trivialized their religious beliefs. Of course how dare an Obama supporter see any fault in what their candidate says. As if the man can do no wrong. Almost glad none of the mods at GAF will give me posting privileges in the OT section as it would have only lasted a few minutes.

Welcome back. You've been gone a long time, so maybe you haven't heard that I don't shine shoes or support Obama

[bdoughty]

I know you are not an Obama supporter. I just mentioned you posting that reply over in the wolves den. The rest was a rant on the place you posted it.

[recursivelyenumerable]

As PD pointed out this isn't even about race.  His recent remarks in San Fran are of a piece with his speech in Philly, politicians exploit justified bitterness among both white AND black people by diverting it in counterproductive ways.

[bdoughty]

As PD pointed out this isn't even about race.  His recent remarks in San Fran are of a piece with his speech in Philly, politicians exploit justified bitterness by diverting it in counterproductive ways.

But could it not be about ideals and how he sees one group as far more intellectual than another. Or possibly just an attempt to raise more money?  Honestly is San Francisco really the pace for him to be making such remarks? It seems like he is pandering to them. That he will teach the inbred, nascar loving rednecks how to evolve into their "evolved" line of thought.

[Phoenix Dark]

As PD pointed out this isn't even about race.  His recent remarks in San Fran are of a piece with his speech in Philly, politicians exploit justified bitterness by diverting it in counterproductive ways.

But could it not be about ideals and how he sees one group as far more intellectual than another. Or possibly just an attempt to raise more money?  Honestly is San Francisco really the pace for him to be making such remarks? It seems like he is pandering to them. That he will teach the inbred, nascar loving rednecks how to evolve into their "evolved" line of thought.

Where are you getting that rhetoric? Obama is not looking down or judging anyone, nor is he criticizing people's focus on religion or guns. All he said was that due to the economic death of their surrounding they wind up turning attention to the issues that can't be shipped to China - guns and religion - and politicians often exploit that emphasis by focusing on scare tactics rooted in homophobia or "they're gonna take your guns!" rhetoric. That's all he said

Are you from Oklahoma? Do you know any people who populate the more rural areas of the state that have been hit hard by trade issues or jobs shipped over seas, or immigration? If you can't admit many of those people are bitter you are denying reality. He isn't using the term in a strictly negative connotation, he's merely diagnosing a social problem

[FlameOfCallandor]

PD...  Why run of to GAFFYWORLD and post what FOC said?  Come on man you are better than that.

  PD posts my evilbore posts on GAF??? 

[Flannel Boy]

Clearly, upper class liberals working in high status professions are not going to lose their jobs to third world illegal immigrants. It's so easy for them to look down on working class whites and call them bitter. 

Apart from the illegal immigrant bit it's already happened to IT and soon to move on (if it hasn't already) to accounting, engineering and other professions. Go to some tech sites e.g. Slashdot and there are plenty of bitter IT people there.


Obama's done- the religion part's killed him. And oddly FoC is right about Obama's gross stereotyping.

What part of "high status" don't you understand? IT, accounting, and most engineering jobs are not high status.

[bdoughty]

Where are you getting that rhetoric? Obama is not looking down or judging anyone, nor is he criticizing people's focus on religion or guns. All he said was that due to the economic death of their surrounding they wind up turning attention to the issues that can't be shipped to China - guns and religion - and politicians often exploit that emphasis by focusing on scare tactics rooted in homophobia or "they're gonna take your guns!" rhetoric. That's all he said

Are you from Oklahoma? Do you know any people who populate the more rural areas of the state that have been hit hard by trade issues or jobs shipped over seas, or immigration? If you can't admit many of those people are bitter you are denying reality. He isn't using the term in a strictly negative connotation, he's merely diagnosing a social problem

Rhetoric?  Correct me if I am wrong but would pretty much everything on here be rhetoric since none of us is the man behind the curtain, inside Obamas brain. I can only derive my opinion from things I have heard from Obama and his wife. They tend to play around with that "proverbial line" of what did they just say?  Proud of her country for the first time, etc, etc.

There are plenty of other things that can't be shipped to China.  Family values, work ethic, community, love of the fellow man, etc, etc. He chose the exact things he wanted to say.

Oh and I am from and live in Texas, raised by a bunch of Okies.

[Fresh Prince]

What part of "high status" don't you understand? IT, accounting, and most engineering jobs are not high status.

Some IT and most engineering jobs are high status. Accounting depends on which field you choose. There's a reason why engineering grads and some IT grads are some of the highest paid grads coming out. As black people say money => power => respect.
I know you work at Ford but that's no excuse pretending IT and engineering aren't high status.

[recursivelyenumerable]

as a Midwesterner I somehow think this will get more play in hardcore Republican states like Texas than in the Midwest or Rust Belt themselves

[Phoenix Dark]

Where are you getting that rhetoric? Obama is not looking down or judging anyone, nor is he criticizing people's focus on religion or guns. All he said was that due to the economic death of their surrounding they wind up turning attention to the issues that can't be shipped to China - guns and religion - and politicians often exploit that emphasis by focusing on scare tactics rooted in homophobia or "they're gonna take your guns!" rhetoric. That's all he said

Are you from Oklahoma? Do you know any people who populate the more rural areas of the state that have been hit hard by trade issues or jobs shipped over seas, or immigration? If you can't admit many of those people are bitter you are denying reality. He isn't using the term in a strictly negative connotation, he's merely diagnosing a social problem

Rhetoric?  Correct me if I am wrong but would pretty much everything on here be rhetoric since none of us is the man behind the curtain, inside Obamas brain. I can only derive my opinion from things I have heard from Obama and his wife. They tend to play around with that "proverbial line" of what did they just say?  Proud of her country for the first time, etc, etc.

There are plenty of other things that can't be shipped to China.  Family values, work ethic, community, love of the fellow man, etc, etc. He chose the exact things he wanted to say.

Oh and I am from and live in Texas, raised by a bunch of Okies.

I agree that Obama and his wife has made puzzling comments more than a couple times, but this isn't one of them. Obama referenced two of the issues most exploited by politicians, and it made his point even more credible. It was a nuanced comment, one which must be looked at closely and thought about, not thrown away. We need to talk about this. You live in Texas, and place where many people are bitter about the same issues some rural Pennsylvanians are bitter about. All Obama did was attempt to start an honest, intelligent conversation on the issue yet some have rejected it, instead relying on their own insecurities.

Obama doesn't think anyone is "stupid", that's nonsense.

[Flannel Boy]

What part of "high status" don't you understand? IT, accounting, and most engineering jobs are not high status.

Some IT and most engineering jobs are high status. Accounting depends on which field you choose. There's a reason why engineering grads and some IT grads are some of the highest paid grads coming out. As black people say money => power => respect.

Money doesn't equal status. A plumber who makes more than a writer for the Times is nevertheless working in a low status job while the latter is working in a high status job.

I know you work at Ford but that's no excuse pretending IT and engineering aren't high status.

I never said I worked in a high status job, so that was a pointless jab (especially since this job is temporary). I could be working as a field laborer, but that wouldn't mean IT guys are working in a high status profession.

[Phoenix Dark]

Depends on what type of accountant you are. CPAs are in a good status

[bdoughty]

I agree that Obama and his wife has made puzzling comments more than a couple times, but this isn't one of them. Obama referenced two of the issues most exploited by politicians, and it made his point even more credible. It was a nuanced comment, one which must be looked at closely and thought about, not thrown away. We need to talk about this. You live in Texas, and place where many people are bitter about the same issues some rural Pennsylvanians are bitter about. All Obama did was attempt to start an honest, intelligent conversation on the issue yet some have rejected it, instead relying on their own insecurities.

Obama doesn't think anyone is "stupid", that's nonsense.

PD,

You lost me when you tried to compare Texas and rural Pennsylvania. Texas is a wee bit more diverse than you want to give us credit for. Plenty of differences in rural Texas and rural Pennsylvania.  Where I live, up north in the panhandle, most of the smaller towns/rural areas have hispanic communities populating 1/3, if not more of each town. How exactly would that compare to these rural Pennsylvania towns?  Or are you strictly referring to the redneck, white folks that populate Texas towns? I know you are/were homeschooled but it is obvious that you have a lot to learn about places you have never been with that attempt at a comparison.

Also are you sure that you are not a closet Obama fan because you seem to be making many claims for him.  I think most humans on this earth find at least one person or group to be stupid or inferior/lacking. Me thinks the Obamas are no exception.

You keep talking about "intelligent conversation" but my question is if that it was so important why not have this "intelligent discussion" in Pennsylvania, with the very people he is talking about? You know, to see what THEY think can be done to solve this quandary. What exactly can the people of San Fransisco do to help in this situation? Other than give him money and support for his campaign.

Motives should always be questioned. To me it is pretty obvious what his was but that is just me.

[Fresh Prince]

Of course plumbers aren't seen as high-status since they're seen as blue collar workers. The other professions are white collared.

Engineering, IT (depending in which field) and accounting (depending in which field) are considered high status to average person on the street.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Who says he's not having the intelligent discussion in Pennsylvania?  Like I just showed, the remarks in SF are closely connected to his 3/18 speech on race issues which was given in Philadelphia, PA.

[Phoenix Dark]

I agree that Obama and his wife has made puzzling comments more than a couple times, but this isn't one of them. Obama referenced two of the issues most exploited by politicians, and it made his point even more credible. It was a nuanced comment, one which must be looked at closely and thought about, not thrown away. We need to talk about this. You live in Texas, and place where many people are bitter about the same issues some rural Pennsylvanians are bitter about. All Obama did was attempt to start an honest, intelligent conversation on the issue yet some have rejected it, instead relying on their own insecurities.

Obama doesn't think anyone is "stupid", that's nonsense.

PD,

You lost me when you tried to compare Texas and rural Pennsylvania. Texas is a wee bit more diverse than you want to give us credit for. Plenty of differences in rural Texas and rural Pennsylvania.  Where I live, up north in the panhandle, most of the smaller towns/rural areas have hispanic communities populating 1/3, if not more of each town. How exactly would that compare to these rural Pennsylvania towns?  Or are you strictly referring to the redneck, white folks that populate Texas towns? I know you are/were homeschooled but it is obvious that you have a lot to learn about places you have never been with that attempt at a comparison.

Also are you sure that you are not a closet Obama fan because you seem to be making many claims for him.  I think most humans on this earth find at least one person or group to be stupid or inferior/lacking. Me thinks the Obamas are no exception.

You keep talking about "intelligent conversation" but my question is if that it was so important why not have this "intelligent discussion" in Pennsylvania, with the very people he is talking about? You know, to see what THEY think can be done to solve this quandary. What exactly can the people of San Fransisco do to help in this situation? Other than give him money and support for his campaign.

Motives should always be questioned. To me it is pretty obvious what his was but that is just me.

The comparison is valid. The rural people of Pennsylvania share similarities with the rural people of Michigan, or the rural people of Texas. Of course there are differences, but it's a fact that the rural areas of this country have been hit hard by the economy for years - in the north and south, in the west and east. This is bigger than Pennsylvania. Just as it's bigger than race. A factory that closes in a rural town can cripple the entire town, no matter the state.

Why would Obama insult a bunch of these people to their face, especially considering his current position in the polls there? That makes no sense and you know it. Obama is too nuanced for his own good.

Ask anyone whether I'm a "closet" Obama fan. I slammed him on the Wright issue, and will continue to do so. I slam his followers for resembling a cult of personality, unwilling to consider the possibility that Obama is indeed human and not the perfect never-before-seen herald they treat him like. When he's the democratic nominee I'll get in line and support and vote for him, but it won't be blind following - he, like any other politician, deserves to be criticized

[bdoughty]

Who says he's not having the intelligent discussion in Pennsylvania?  Like I just showed, the remarks in SF are closely connected to his 3/18 speech on race issues which was given in Philadelphia, PA.

Nobody? Unless Hillary is saying that but I tend to ignore anything she says. The point is that his speech was in San Francisco, to DONORS and potential DONORS to his campaign and in private (or so he had hoped). It comes off to me like a schoolgirl whispering mean things to her friends about the ugly girl that they will never accept into their group.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24082427/

Let's recap with the use of bold. I copied this from MSNBC as to not taint the information by the hands of the Fox News Network.

At issue are comments Obama made privately at a fundraising gathering in San Francisco last Sunday.

[bdoughty]

Why would Obama insult a bunch of these people to their face, especially considering his current position in the polls there? That makes no sense and you know it. Obama is too nuanced for his own good.

He didn't do it to their face.  He did it in private, to like minded liberals whose money he needs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

If it had been public would we not have seen videos of the speech all over youtube?  Instead of it being broken by someone recording it?

[AdmiralViscen]

I know you work at Ford but that's no excuse pretending IT and engineering aren't high status.

I never said I worked in a high status job, so that was a pointless jab (especially since this job is temporary). I could be working as a field laborer, but that wouldn't mean IT guys are working in a high status profession.

I think he was saying that working at Ford, you might see IT guys and engineers that you work with as low class, but they may esteemed elsewhere.

[Phoenix Dark]

Why would Obama insult a bunch of these people to their face, especially considering his current position in the polls there? That makes no sense and you know it. Obama is too nuanced for his own good.

He didn't do it to their face.  He did it in private, to like minded liberals whose money he needs.

My bad. Obama doesn't "need" money; I'd accept that explanation if this was Hillary.

Out of interest I checked Red State
http://redstate.com/

Nearly everything on the front page has to do with this comment, each blog post more delusional than the other

"Evidently, Cafferty and CNN have chosen to defend Obama by arguing that if economic conditions continue the way they are going, the small-town hicks of America could eventually become something akin to al Qaeda terrorists."

This of course is in reference to this CNN clip, posted at the site
[youtube=425,350]4G8dRMofHNs[/youtube]

All the guests perfectly explain the issue - the blogger once again takes shit out of context

[Flannel Boy]

Of course plumbers aren't seen as high-status since they're seen as blue collar workers. The other professions are white collared.

Engineering, IT (depending in which field) and accounting (depending in which field) are considered high status to average person on the street.

I agree that engineering and IT are higher status professions than plumbing. I brought up plumbing simply to show you that it isn't as simple as "money => power => respect". Just because IT guys wear white collars and can make decent livings doesn't mean they are working in a high status profession. It is a respected profession, but not a high status one. (hint: women make the rules here)

I think he was saying that working at Ford, you might see IT guys and engineers that you work with as low class, but they may esteemed elsewhere.

This has nothing to do with my experience at Ford.

[bdoughty]

My bad. Obama doesn't "need" money; I'd accept that explanation if this was Hillary.

Well gosh, if he does not need money then why spend a night in California with a bunch of rich folk, when it is obvious the people of Pennsylvania need his help more?

Neat video there of Wolfie and a slew of mouthpieces, now can you get me a video of Obama's speech at that private meeting?

Out of interest I checked Red State
http://redstate.com/

What were you expecting? A parade for Obama?

Oh noes I just went to
http://www.michaelmoore.com/

He was saying man things about republicans and taking advantage of soldiers who were killed in the war to serve his own purpose.

Whatever shall I do?

[Phoenix Dark]

A part of it is out:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html

Right before the "bitter" comment; I'm guessing the whole video will be out soon. His comments in that clip only reaffirm the point that wasn't insulting anyone, and instead giving "real talk" if you will

[bdoughty]

A part of it is out:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html

Right before the "bitter" comment; I'm guessing the whole video will be out soon. His comments in that clip only reaffirm the point that wasn't insulting anyone, and instead giving "real talk" if you will

And he continues to kick himself in the mouth for saying it. I read the whole transcript of the speech. I still stand by my opinion as to why he said it. It does amuse me how he wants to keep race out of this yet for the 500th time we get to hear about being a "46-year-old black man named Barack Obama."

[AdmiralViscen]

This has nothing to do with my experience at Ford.

My comment had nothing to do with what you were saying about jobs.

[Phoenix Dark]

Malek sounds pretty bitter to me