Author Topic: Game  (Read 17640 times)

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Borys

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Game
« on: June 05, 2008, 07:00:50 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 12:17:38 PM by Borys »

Tieno

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Re: :bow Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow2
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 07:16:35 AM »
Post screenshots of how it looks on your PC when you're playing it :spin
i

Re: :bow Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow2
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 08:38:01 AM »
Maybe it's the optimization, though.

You don't think consoles games are optimized?

If anything, PC games are harder to optimize for due to the myriad hardware configurations possible. Many console games ported over to the PC are hardly optimized at all (Stranglehold, Assassin's Creed).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 08:40:12 AM by crimsondynamics »

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 08:59:38 AM »
If they managed to run the same engine that was used in Lost Planet PC 10 times faster in DMC4 PC then I think that's QUITE an optimization.

I wonder if they just did use some stuff/ paths/ techniques that are impossible to do on consoles because of their lack of RAM or GPU power or whatever.

Their cross-platform engine is probably maturing nicely - and they actually put some damn effort in ports instead of sloppy seconds. Both good stuff for PC gamers!

Since the engine is cross-platform in nature, it should carry Capcom through the generation so for their sake it'd better have advanced features.

But the game looks like it will rock.  :D

Junpei the Tracer!

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 09:21:19 AM »


 :gloomy Why Borys....WHY ME!?
Boo

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 09:26:57 AM »
DX10? Maybe DX9 would be a few frames quicker...

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 10:24:59 AM »
Whoever made those shots in the original post should really lower their settings.  If you are dipping below 60 fps like that, you are ruining the flow of the game.  The extra resolution isn't worth the loss in performance.

Should be perfect at a lower resolution, however.

Quote
We need some results from Smooth Groove, dark1x and Cajole and his new, shiny laptop.
I should be able to try it later on.  Based on my Lost Planet experience, I should have no troubles pulling a rock solid 60 fps at 720p.  I don't really need resolutions higher than that.

Of course, I'm not really seeing a huge point to this game if you already have a console version.  Unlike Lost Planet, DMC4 already runs at a very solid 60 fps on the consoles with pretty good image quality (full 1280x720 with mild AA).


Quote
Holy fuck. PCs are so much more powerful than consoles that it isn't even funny.
Yes they are, but that's not a good example.  The framerate in your example drops below 60 fps quite often, which does not occur in the console releases.  The resolution advantage is made null and void if you are getting slowdown.  The only reason the framerate is going ABOVE 60 fps is due to the lack of a vertical sync 60 Hz lock.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 10:28:31 AM by dark1x »

demi

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Re: :bow Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow2
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 10:25:26 AM »
Holy fuck. PCs are so much more powerful than consoles that it isn't even funny.

ROFL, you really are polish

Are you trying to prove some sort of point? :lol

Go back to sleep...
fat

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 10:58:09 AM »
Downloading the benchmark as we speak.

:bow DMC4 :bow2
DMC

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 11:38:32 AM »
Quote
Holy fuck. PCs are so much more powerful than consoles that it isn't even funny.
Yes they are, but that's not a good example.  The framerate in your example drops below 60 fps quite often, which does not occur in the console releases.  The resolution advantage is made null and void if you are getting slowdown.  The only reason the framerate is going ABOVE 60 fps is due to the lack of a vertical sync 60 Hz lock.

Well for starters I have a notebook that I use mostly for SQL Server :lol

And, demi, I was thinking more about how a game that is absolutely 100% optimized for consoles (which is easy thing to do) is still running way better on PCs (which have random configurations).
I wasn't talking about YOUR benchmark.  :P

The game is NOT running way better on PCs, though.  Performance was not an issue with the console games at all.  The only benefit to the PC version is image quality.

With most PC ports, you generally see an improved framerate in addition to superior image quality, but the game was already 60 fps (going above that means nothing).

demi

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 11:50:40 AM »
Borys... look in my PC thread and look at the last parts I picked out... let me know if it's good. I want to pull the trigger today.
fat

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 11:52:22 AM »
dark1x, is this false then:

Quote
- The Model and texture quality of Devil May Cry PC Demo will be 2.5~ 3.6 times higher the 360 version, to get better screen effect.

It's kinda hard to measure. Are the models really better? Don't forget DMC4 PC has new gameplay modes that put dozens and dozens of enemies on screen - something that is simply NOT possible in either console version. Something that is a true benefit of PC platform besides AA and high-res.
I'd be surprised if they actually re-did all of the textures and such, but if so, that's pretty cool.  It doesn't seem more detailed, but I've haven't looked closely yet.

The PC version seems to be an awesome port, I was suggesting otherwise.  I was simply noting that it doesn't bring the same kind of improvement to the table as many other PC ports as the console performance was already fantastic.  I feel the same way about Burnout Paradise on the PC.  It was already a perfect 60 fps with excellent image quality on the consoles, so a PC version isn't as compelling.  The PC versions will still stand as the superior releases, of course.

Tieno

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 11:55:25 AM »
"Stylish action is an impossibility for Borys"  :violin :ussrcry
i

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2008, 11:56:33 AM »
dark1x, is this false then:

Quote
- The Model and texture quality of Devil May Cry PC Demo will be 2.5~ 3.6 times higher the 360 version, to get better screen effect.

It's kinda hard to measure. Are the models really better? Don't forget DMC4 PC has new gameplay modes that put dozens and dozens of enemies on screen - something that is simply NOT possible in either console version. Something that is a true benefit of PC platform besides AA and high-res.

Hopefully this isn't just cosmetic. If you really have a mob that large attacking you instead of standing around, good times will be here.
DMC

duckman2000

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2008, 02:21:32 PM »

Don Flamenco

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2008, 03:37:15 PM »
These gamershell install files are whack, but I'm installing now.

Smooth Groove

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2008, 03:51:33 PM »
Benchmarked in DX10 with everything in Super High at 1920x1080 w/4X AA.  I can't pick 1920x1200 for some reason but it shouldn't be a big difference. 

:piss Dark1x's 720P gaming with slowdown :piss2




Smooth Groove

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2008, 03:52:57 PM »
The last scene has a ridiculous amount of activity.  Demi would cum all over it.


demi

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2008, 03:54:36 PM »
I think this game is too hard for you, Smooth. Leave it to the console gamers.
fat

Don Flamenco

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2008, 03:56:13 PM »

 :pimp

also, 2gb of ram.  Everything is set to Super High, no V-sync, 2xMSAA.  never dipped below 85fps.


They were not lying when they said this was 10x more optimized!   The forest looks MUCH better, but those shadows are still flickery.  Overall, it's just so much softer on the eyes than the console versions.

DAY 1.  See Capcom, you put effort into PC ports, I'll happily lap them up.  Lost Planet, DMC4, and lets hope lightning strikes three times with RE5.

Smooth Groove

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 03:58:52 PM »
I think this game is too hard for you, Smooth. Leave it to the console gamers.

Don't worry.  I'll be playing with trainer programs that will provide invincibility mode and everything unlocked. 

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2008, 04:33:04 PM »
Benchmarked in DX10 with everything in Super High at 1920x1080 w/4X AA.  I can't pick 1920x1200 for some reason but it shouldn't be a big difference. 

:piss Dark1x's 720P gaming with slowdown :piss2

Hey, you're the one using an LCD.   :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Tieno

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 04:44:54 PM »
I wanna see DMC4 benchmark pics of your home PC Borys.  :spin
i

Smooth Groove

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2008, 04:50:32 PM »
Benchmarked in DX10 with everything in Super High at 1920x1080 w/4X AA.  I can't pick 1920x1200 for some reason but it shouldn't be a big difference. 

:piss Dark1x's 720P gaming with slowdown :piss2

Hey, you're the one using an LCD.   :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

What does that have to do with the PC version of DMC4 running and looking much better than the console versions?

LCD vs CRT is a moot issue since only one technology is alive.  Even if I agreed with you on the virtues of CRT monitors, it's not like I can find one readily to replace my LCD. 

Besides, my 24" LCD monitor looks better than any CRT I've ever seen, as long as I stick to its native resolution, which I do. 

patrickula

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2008, 04:55:06 PM »
Man there's gotta be something wrong with how my rig's set up.  I have a Q6600 and an 8800gt, and it still dips below 60 (in DX10) on two of the scenes at 1680x1050 and 2xAA  ???  It would still be playable but  :'(
I have 3gigs of RAM, 32bit Vista.  Is there shit I need to be turning off?  Aero effects?

Don Flamenco

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2008, 05:31:42 PM »
This scene is so hot we gotta see it again:

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2008, 06:05:35 PM »


Whatever the defaults were.



Everything superhigh and whatever the last AA option was! I don't know which AA option I should've picked tbh.  8)
DMC

Crushed

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2008, 06:28:29 PM »
(does benchmark)

...


this game sucks  :maf
wtc

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2008, 06:34:14 PM »
(does benchmark)

...


this game sucks  :maf

You suck. :pimp
DMC

Don Flamenco

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2008, 06:34:20 PM »
I turned AA to 4x and Vsync on-- definitely some choppiness now.  Especially in the part where you use grim grip to fly over the street.  Battles are untouched though.  Also the game tears like crazy when you move the camera with Vsync off.  Once again, doesn't happen in battle.  It's like they programmed the game to only fuck up outside of battle.  Not a complaint--just an observation.

I think 4x actually looks worse though--a bit more blurry, not smooth like AA in other games.  why is that?

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2008, 09:43:39 PM »



DX9 is the way to go, it seems. 8x AA and excellent framerate.
DMC

Crushed

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2008, 10:00:39 PM »
Yep. I actually got, on average, ~10 frames per second on DX9 with High settings than on DX10 with Low.  :lol
wtc

MedievalManIII

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2008, 10:15:24 PM »
I think my computer is going to fry up and die from the benchmark. Guess I'll wait and see. :-\

Fragamemnon

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2008, 11:46:34 PM »
Man there's gotta be something wrong with how my rig's set up.  I have a Q6600 and an 8800gt, and it still dips below 60 (in DX10) on two of the scenes at 1680x1050 and 2xAA  ???  It would still be playable but  :'(
I have 3gigs of RAM, 32bit Vista.  Is there shit I need to be turning off?  Aero effects?

DX10, DX10, DX10, turn that shit off.
hex

patrickula

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2008, 11:54:37 PM »
Man there's gotta be something wrong with how my rig's set up.  I have a Q6600 and an 8800gt, and it still dips below 60 (in DX10) on two of the scenes at 1680x1050 and 2xAA  ???  It would still be playable but  :'(
I have 3gigs of RAM, 32bit Vista.  Is there shit I need to be turning off?  Aero effects?

DX10, DX10, DX10, turn that shit off.
Yeah that might help, but I'm looking at Smooth Groove's results in DX10, and his rig doesn't seem like it should run much better than mine... unless he has Vista 64 and a shit-ton of RAM... or the 8800GTX is that much better than the GT.
I'll try running the DX9 bench tomorrow though and see what difference there is.

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2008, 12:02:09 AM »
How many processes does your machine run?
What applications are running in your tray?
Do you have any non-essential, unnecessary or useless applications running in the background?
Visual effects (e.g. Aero) on?

Turn all that off and your computer should be able to post improved results.

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2008, 12:06:26 AM »
1440x900 (which my monitor maxes at), 8x AA, everything Super High, V-Sync off, DX9. Ended up with 75-120 fps.




DMC

patrickula

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2008, 12:07:20 AM »
How many processes does your machine run?
What applications are running in your tray?
Do you have any non-essential, unnecessary or useless applications running in the background?
Visual effects (e.g. Aero) on?

Turn all that off and your computer should be able to post improved results.
So Aero keeps eating resources even when you're playing full screen?  Time to turn that shit off  :-\

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2008, 12:15:29 AM »
How many processes does your machine run?
What applications are running in your tray?
Do you have any non-essential, unnecessary or useless applications running in the background?
Visual effects (e.g. Aero) on?

Turn all that off and your computer should be able to post improved results.
So Aero keeps eating resources even when you're playing full screen?  Time to turn that shit off  :-\

Even XP's themes eat up memory. So does ClearType. Anything bells and whistles that graphically enhances the look and feel of Windows beyond what Windows looked like back with 98 and 2000 will eat up a bit of memory.

It's only a tiny bit, mind, but each tiny bit add up, and there are tons of tiny bits in Windows...

MedievalManIII

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2008, 01:34:14 AM »
I messed up the screenshot so no screenshot posting in here.

Specifications:
Intel Core 2 2.00Ghz
Nvidia 8700m
1680x1050x32
DirectX 10

Grade: D

 :'(

Narag

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2008, 01:42:55 AM »
Retry with dx9
DMC

MedievalManIII

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2008, 01:45:41 AM »


It went up by one grade. I think that my computer is a vidcon in disguise. :'(

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2008, 01:46:44 AM »
OK, can someone help me?

I am in the decided minority here with my ATI Radeon 3870 and XP, but any insight would be appreciated.

I ran the demo last night, and the 8xFSAA was too much of a performance drain (30fps - damn, ATI, fix this crap!) so I went and disabled the antialiasing. The performance increase was noticeable (over 130fps).

Then I ran the test with 2xFSAA and while there was a performance impact, I was still clocking more than 100fps.

Then I decided to up the resolution from 1280x720 to 1920x1080 and that's when all hell broke loose. The game didn't "crash" but it would be stuck trying to change the resolution or something, but Catalyst Control Center would show this GPU fault that is due to a  unresponsive graphics card, although it seems like it's timing out more than anything else.

If I try to run the benchmark again DMC4 would give me a DX error (can't recall what it is exactly). I would need to restart my PC.

But, even after restarting, the same symptoms vicious cycle would rear its ugly head. I uninstalled and reinstalled the demo to see if that would work, and the same thing happens.

I tried disabling absolutely everything unnecessary (UI cosmetics, TSR programs, themes, etc etc) but I still get this issue.

Sometimes it will run at 1280x720 with or without antialiasing, but I it will never let me go to 1920x1080.

Anyone have a similar experience? Any ideas or suggestions?

MedievalManIII

  • Junior Member
Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2008, 02:05:07 AM »
Maybe flushing out the config files could fix the problem. It's not going to be in C:\Program Files\CAPCOM\DEVILMAYCRY4_BENCHMARK as it will instead be in C:\Document and Settings\...\Application Data\CAPCOM\DEVILMAYCRY4_BENCHMARK (I think, I haven't used XP for a long time.)

Also, try testing the 1920x1080 resolution in other games and updating to the latest drivers for your graphics card. (Beta drivers are wonky, they might give you more or less FPS).

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2008, 02:22:57 AM »
Maybe flushing out the config files could fix the problem. It's not going to be in C:\Program Files\CAPCOM\DEVILMAYCRY4_BENCHMARK as it will instead be in C:\Document and Settings\...\Application Data\CAPCOM\DEVILMAYCRY4_BENCHMARK (I think, I haven't used XP for a long time.)

Also, try testing the 1920x1080 resolution in other games and updating to the latest drivers for your graphics card. (Beta drivers are wonky, they might give you more or less FPS).

Nice one - I didn't know it added files there as well. Will check tonight.

I tried searching for files under Program Files\CAPCOM\DEVILMAYCRY4_BENCHMARK that were modified but couldn't find anything. Now I know why!

I have the latest drivers - if anything, ATI is damn good about that, always releasing updates once a month, on the clock.

Smooth Groove

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2008, 02:40:08 AM »
Man there's gotta be something wrong with how my rig's set up.  I have a Q6600 and an 8800gt, and it still dips below 60 (in DX10) on two of the scenes at 1680x1050 and 2xAA  ???  It would still be playable but  :'(
I have 3gigs of RAM, 32bit Vista.  Is there shit I need to be turning off?  Aero effects?

DX10, DX10, DX10, turn that shit off.
Yeah that might help, but I'm looking at Smooth Groove's results in DX10, and his rig doesn't seem like it should run much better than mine... unless he has Vista 64 and a shit-ton of RAM... or the 8800GTX is that much better than the GT.
I'll try running the DX9 bench tomorrow though and see what difference there is.

The stats shown by the test aren't accurate.  My Q6600 is running at 3.4ghz and I'm actually using two 8800 GTXes.

I can't wait to see the numbers when I'm running two 280 GTXes in a few months. 

MedievalManIII

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2008, 03:16:31 AM »
I reduced that fire hell conqueror boss's health down to three bars, then he went psycho and destroyed me. :dizzy
I need to learn how to dodge attacks properly.

Nevertheless, I really like the boss/mini-boss fights, but the fights with normal demons bore me.

I think my computer is going to fry up and die from the benchmark. Guess I'll wait and see. :-\

Hey man I sent you an invite in UT3 yesterday! We'll be friends :-*

Do you play UT3 through Steam?

I'm asking this because we need some kind of bat signal to hook up for a match and I figure that Steam friends is a good bat signal and also, I bought it over Steam.

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2008, 07:44:16 AM »
LMAO @ Smooth's and mamesj's results.

dark1x and his "there's no need to play this on a PC! waste of resources! PS3 is enough! I don't like higher than 720p resolutions anyway!" owned pretty hard.

(no hard feelings dark1x)

I can't imagine RE5 PC.

It will be G L O R I O U S.
Eh, not really.  I tested my own rig and had no problems getting an S-rank at high resolutions (with v-sync disabled).  With v-sync enabled and the framerate capped at 60 fps, I get a virtually perfect line across the whole test (one tiny dip) yet it scores as a B.  I do think the PC version is a bit better, but I didn't think it was as necessary as many other console ports simply because it already looked and ran just fine.  I was disappointed that Super High shadows were still pretty ugly, though.  They seemed a bit sharper, but the pixelation was surprising considering how smooth the shadows in Lost Planet were.

The performance was flawless, however.  They really beefed up the old Framework engine this time.

Quote
Besides, my 24" LCD monitor looks better than any CRT I've ever seen, as long as I stick to its native resolution, which I do. 
:lol :lol :lol

Whatever floats your boat.  Enjoy your massively inferior LCD while I stick with my Kuro plasma and/or CRT.  Gotta love that ugly backlight and extreme motion blurring.  Oh, you don't see it?   :lol :lol  That's what all LCD owners convince themselves of.  Thanks for f*cking up the display market by buying shitty technology.  High framerates don't mean jack shit when your using an LCD.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 07:46:43 AM by dark1x »

patrickula

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2008, 07:44:59 AM »
Man there's gotta be something wrong with how my rig's set up.  I have a Q6600 and an 8800gt, and it still dips below 60 (in DX10) on two of the scenes at 1680x1050 and 2xAA  ???  It would still be playable but  :'(
I have 3gigs of RAM, 32bit Vista.  Is there shit I need to be turning off?  Aero effects?

DX10, DX10, DX10, turn that shit off.
Yeah that might help, but I'm looking at Smooth Groove's results in DX10, and his rig doesn't seem like it should run much better than mine... unless he has Vista 64 and a shit-ton of RAM... or the 8800GTX is that much better than the GT.
I'll try running the DX9 bench tomorrow though and see what difference there is.

The stats shown by the test aren't accurate.  My Q6600 is running at 3.4ghz and I'm actually using two 8800 GTXes.

I can't wait to see the numbers when I'm running two 280 GTXes in a few months. 
Ah, bitchin' rig :bow2

Please excuse my n00b-ass EB, I am only recently returned to the wonders of PC Gamin'.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 08:06:12 AM by patrickula »

Tieno

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2008, 09:41:02 AM »
Still waiting for Borys to post his home pc benchmark pics and screens  :spin
i

Smooth Groove

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2008, 10:12:30 AM »
Whatever floats your boat.  Enjoy your massively inferior LCD while I stick with my Kuro plasma and/or CRT.  Gotta love that ugly backlight and extreme motion blurring.  Oh, you don't see it?   :lol :lol  That's what all LCD owners convince themselves of.  Thanks for f*cking up the display market by buying shitty technology.  High framerates don't mean jack shit when your using an LCD.

Now you're just being dumb.  :lol :lol The market collectively decided that they prefer LCDs a long time ago.   :lol :lol :lol :lol

I don't have a choice when it comes to choosing a CRT or LCD as a monitor because no one is making or selling CRTs anymore.  :lol :lol

Poor backlights and motion blurring have not been never been as problematic on PC monitors as they are on LCD TVs.

Also, it's not like CRTs don't have their own flaws such as glare,trinitron lines, inferior text and non-widescreen aspect.  :lol :lol :lol :lol

I do have a new 58" 1080P plasma so I'm no LCD apologist that you seem to think I am.  My PC isn't connected to it though.

Only nerds play PC games in their living rooms.   :lol :lol :lol :lol

spoiler (click to show/hide)
  Please keep "using lols to strengthen an argument" to GAF. 
[close]

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2008, 10:26:17 AM »
The market isn't driven by gamers so LCD was an obvious choice.  That's pretty unfortunate, however, as most people seem oblivious to the flaws of the technology.  They simply want them because they are "flat".  Hopefully OLED will become feasible soon enough.

It's true that backlighting and blurring issues are lesser on PC LCDs, but it's still a far cry from a high quality CRT.  It's not even remotely close at this point.  It's true that the majority of CRTs are not widescreen, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  I simply find it amusing that you've coupled your powerful PC with a shitty display.  If you really wanted the best of the best, you'd find one of those 24" Sony GW900.  Then you could truly brag about your rig.  Of course, that's only possible if you live in the US and even still they are difficult to obtain.

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You can't see the massive CHASM of a difference between DMC4 PC and DMC4 consoles. DMC4 PC runs in resolutions way beyond PS3/ 360 capabilities, at framerate those console will never even dream of, with picture quality way, way BEYOND even console bullshots provided by Capcom (AA and AF) and has MASSIVE amounts of enemies on screen (which would bring PS3/ 360 to a halt - see the included pictures) yet you can only notice the tiny-ass, absolutely unimportant fault of not "perfect" shadows.
Of course I see the difference.  I never suggested that the PC version is anything but the superior version.  I was simply noting that it was less necessary than usual.  Most console games struggle to even hit 30 fps and often sport some pretty bad image quality.  When you get a PC port you tend to see some massive improvements.  With DMC4, however, the difference isn't all that striking.

I'm not sure why you are obsessed with framerate numbers beyond 60 fps as it makes absolutely no difference.  60 fps on a CRT monitor will always look cleaner and smoother than any other currently available display technology.  In general, you need to disable vertical sync in order to use framerates higher than 60 fps UNLESS you have a display capable of a higher refresh rate.  Even then, it doesn't really make a difference.  120Hz on a CRT with a game at a solid 120 fps actually introduces slight blurring that isn't present at 60 Hz.

60 fps on a 60Hz CRT is the absolute smoothest image you can achieve right now.  That's all there is to it.

That's why I believe the DMC4 benchmark is a bit off.  I can easily achieve an S-rank if I disable v-sync, but the addition of tearing damages the visuals.  Who the hell cares about 150fps when vertical sync is disabled?  It's just a bunch of e-penis bullshit.

I'm not really defending either side here.  Do you really believe there is a world of difference between the multiple versions, Borys?  I mean, honestly.  If all three had shown up on day 1 I would easily have selected the PC version as it is the best of the three, but the difference isn't worth the wait.

At least Capcom did a great job.  I'm remain disappointed with Unreal Engine 3 performance on the PC.  Framerates are no problem, but PC editions tend to suffer from additional loading and other odd hitches.  The fact that AA only functions in DX10 mode is also rather annoying.

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2008, 10:36:01 AM »
The market isn't driven by gamers so LCD was an obvious choice.  That's pretty unfortunate, however, as most people seem oblivious to the flaws of the technology.  They simply want them because they are "flat".  Hopefully OLED will become feasible soon enough.

It's true that backlighting and blurring issues are lesser on PC LCDs, but it's still a far cry from a high quality CRT.  It's not even remotely close at this point.  It's true that the majority of CRTs are not widescreen, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  I simply find it amusing that you've coupled your powerful PC with a shitty display.  If you really wanted the best of the best, you'd find one of those 24" Sony GW900.  Then you could truly brag about your rig.  Of course, that's only possible if you live in the US and even still they are difficult to obtain.

I seen no point in buying a CRT when I won't be able to replace it in 2 yrs.  I know about the GW900s but the ones that can be bought are used models with unknown mileage.  If I bought a used GW900,  how could I know that it'd last for more than a year?

If it makes you feel better, I really hated my 1st gen 1080P LCD from Sony.  It had tons of problems even though it was Sony's top LCD.
The only thing I liked about it was the lack of glare compared to my previous Panny plasma.  My experience with the Sony LCD was so awful that I didn't even bother to look at LCDs when I shopped for a TV last week.  

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2008, 10:39:12 AM »
I'm obsessed in 60+ framerates because it's... possible as simple as that. I like numbers, I like benchmarks, I like seeing better results with each new hardware part I buy.

You can't get that (feeling) on consoles (yet).

Yup, it's the same thing with me.  I like benchmarks because the numbers let you guess what kinda future games would be possible on your hardware. 

The end of this month should be awesome for benchmark nuts because both AMD and Nvidia would have already released their new GPUs.

I'm hoping that Nvidia wins so that I can just stick with my current MB for SLI w/ the fastest GPUs. 

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2008, 10:49:26 AM »
I'm obsessed in 60+ framerates because it's... possible as simple as that. I like numbers, I like benchmarks, I like seeing better results with each new hardware part I buy.

You can't get that (feeling) on consoles (yet).
I can understand that, but those high numbers are completely worthless while actually playing the game.

You will NEVER see this on consoles not due to the lack of power but simply as a result of their intended purpose.  There is no reason to go beyond 60 fps when you are taking playability into account.

Again, disabling v-sync in order to achieve higher numbers on reduces image quality.  If you want to achieve insane numbers that's fine, but when it comes to playing the game, it doesn't make sense.  Quake 3 Arena can run at like 900+ fps on my PC with v-sync disabled, but it looks significantly worse than v-sync'd 60 fps.

I suppose the way I approach PC gaming is very different.  I can also achieve high scores on benchmarks if I use the type of settings most people do, but I am not satisfied with hitches or drops of any kind.  If a game runs at 60 fps 95% of the time when I know it could be 100% of the time, I will lower settings until I achieve that. 

The only reason I can deal with issues on consoles is simply because the option to fix the problems do not exist (in most cases).  I remember renting Tomb Raider Legend on 360 back in 2006 and found that it ran much smoother in 480p than it did in 720p so I actually played through the whole game in 480p.  I'll do the same on PC games.  If 1080p buys me a solid framerate 90-95% of the time, I'll still drop it somewhat lower in order to bump that up to 100%.  Resolution simply isn't all that important to me.

Of course, on an LCD, non-native resolutions DO look somewhat shitty so I can understand why one would always want to use the native display resolution.

That's not to say I don't appreciate resolution, though.  When console games keep dropping below 1280x720, it does piss me off.  Ninja Gaiden 2 at 580p is a disgrace as Team Ninja games always aim for great image quality.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:53:33 AM by dark1x »

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2008, 10:51:58 AM »
Competitive PC gamers like to keep their framerates at 100fps so that the game will move as fast as possible when stuff like network lag happen. 

With regards to just DMC4 specifically, neither console version can keep at 60fps so it's not like it was just VSYNC holding them back. 

dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2008, 10:59:46 AM »
Competitive PC gamers like to keep their framerates at 100fps so that the game will move as fast as possible when stuff like network lag happen. 

With regards to just DMC4 specifically, neither console version can keep at 60fps so it's not like it was just VSYNC holding them back. 
100fps would only ever make sense if the user was working with a CRT at 100Hz.  On an LCD, hitting such a framerate means lack of vertical sync.  I simply don't understand why anyone would prefer to play that way.

DMC4 on consoles manages to hold 60 fps the vast majority of the time.  If v-sync were disabled, most of the scenes would easily soar beyond 60 fps while the scenes that struggled a bit would struggle much less.  You can see how obvious this is via those PC benchmarks.  The second and fourth benchmark are much more demanding than the first and third.  There are plenty of areas where the consoles could exceed 60 fps, but it would mean nothing.

The ultimate goal with a framerate is to keep it as steady as possible with no image tearing or blurring.

The PC version is the superior version due to the fact that slowdown can be eliminated.  I was very pleased that, with everything at super high, I was able to hit 60 fps 99.9% of the time (the one hitch was due to some random background process).  It was a perfect framerate.  At 1080p, it's still 60 fps the majority of the time, but performance did drop in a few places during those second and fourth scenes (nothing too severe).  It never drops below 60 fps with v-sync disabled, however, but it looks much worse as a result.

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2008, 11:04:57 AM »
100fps would only ever make sense if the user was working with a CRT at 100Hz.  On an LCD, hitting such a framerate means lack of vertical sync.  I simply don't understand why anyone would prefer to play that way.

Most professional gamers used CRTS a few years ago.  I don't know how it is now though since the monitor market has changed so drastically. 

Regarding DMC4, I think the console versions dropped too much in the forest level for Vsync to make any difference. 

Still, I'll take another benchmark with Vsync on to see if it can still maintain 60fps throughout. 


dark1x

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Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2008, 11:08:45 AM »
100fps would only ever make sense if the user was working with a CRT at 100Hz.  On an LCD, hitting such a framerate means lack of vertical sync.  I simply don't understand why anyone would prefer to play that way.
Most professional gamers used CRTS a few years ago.  I don't know how it is now though since the monitor market has changed so drastically. 

Regarding DMC4, I think the console versions dropped too much in the forest level for Vsync to make any difference. 

Still, I'll take another benchmark with Vsync on to see if it can still maintain 60fps throughout. 
You will be able to maintain 60 fps throughout.  I only have one 8800GT and had no troubles doing so (though I experienced some minor drops at 1080p, it was perfect at 768p).

Which console version did you play?  I tested both of them in the forest level and found that slowdown was much more severe on XBOX360 for some reason, but both had their share of slowdown there (which is why I assume the PC benchmark in the forest is more demanding).  It's a shame they didn't further improve the shadows, though, as they are still ugly (not as ugly at least).

Re: Devil May Cry 4 PC Demo :bow :bow :bow
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2008, 11:13:41 AM »
Aren't there 120Hz LCDs nowadays? Wouldn't that allow you to game at 120fps with Vsync (provided your hardware was capable)?