Metal Gear Solid 4: THE OFFICIAL GAMEPLAY THREAD. Open season on spoilers!

[disgruntled_jojo]

[/quote]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

finding out the patriots were just codec characters in 3 .
hey here's a big worldwide conspiracy bet you can't wait to find out who is running it!
too bad it was just minor characters we've already introduced

[close]

Really liked that, myself.  It's much better that he didn't introduce a bunch of new characters in order to 'resolve' it.

[BlueTsunami]

Basically, all the Epilogue stuff could have been cut out, yes even Snakes demise. The game needed to have some air of mystery left over and Kojima succesfully wraps EVERY SINGLE THREAD up.

[WrikaWrek]

Basically, all the Epilogue stuff could have been cut out, yes even Snakes demise. The game needed to have some air of mystery left over and Kojima succesfully wraps EVERY SINGLE THREAD up.

Yeah.

I'm imagining like a black screen. You hear snake lightning a cigar, smoking it, handling his piece, and then BAM.

We don't know what happened. Did he die, did he live, nothing.

[Narag]

Basically, all the Epilogue stuff could have been cut out, yes even Snakes demise. The game needed to have some air of mystery left over and Kojima succesfully wraps EVERY SINGLE THREAD up.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Game should've ended at the gunshot and credit roll.

[close]

[Crushed]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

finding out the patriots were just codec characters in 3 .
hey here's a big worldwide conspiracy bet you can't wait to find out who is running it!
too bad it was just minor characters we've already introduced

[close]

I also love how he just

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Totally cast aside the famous mindfuck final lines of MGS2, where it's revealed that the 12 Patriots died over a hundred years ago.

Then in MGS4, Snake just says to Campbell, "WELP ALL THAT WAS BOGUS INFO FROM ARSENAL'S AI"

And then the number gets cut in half for no reason, despite the fact that even the President said there were twelve head members, not just the AI.

What about The Philosophers? We KNOW that they were around for decades before even World War 2, that they were all dead, and their American branch eventually (sorta) became The Patriots. Why not just state that it was twelve of those guys, and now the Patriots are just the AIs or something? Why use a bunch of characters that have no reason to form a conspiracy like that?

-Zero? Since when the fuck did he have a "lust for power"!?

-SIGINT and the DARPA Chief? "Ror, can't havu TWO burakku chalacters in za same univelse, ZEY MUSTU BE ZA SAME PALSON"

-Para-Medic as Dr. Clark? Ignoring that Dr. Clark was supposed to have been a MAN until this game, why would a nice (yet talkative and nerdy weeaboo) turn into an insane mad scientist who did insanely unethical cloning and genetic experiments? You know why Gray Fox killed her, right? BECAUSE SHE EXPERIMENTED ON HIM LIKE AN ANIMAL, KEEPING HIM IN CONSTANT PAIN AND INSANITY. There's absolutely no foreshadowing in any of the games that would suggest that she would have such a dark side, except for mayyyyyybe a convo in Snake Eater in which she mentions that cloning could be amazing. But even then, she says, "I can't condone it on moral grounds."

[close]

I mean, I don't mind crazy out-there stories in my MGS. But for God's sake, even a crazy out-there story can have some kind of coherency.

[BlueTsunami]

Wacked out story aside, theres so much shit to do in this game after the game is done, its ridiculous. This is one game where getting the guide would actually be usefull but waiting for the info to trickle onto Gamefaqs is more cost effective :p

[Narag]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

finding out the patriots were just codec characters in 3 .
hey here's a big worldwide conspiracy bet you can't wait to find out who is running it!
too bad it was just minor characters we've already introduced

[close]

I also love how he just

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Totally cast aside the famous mindfuck final lines of MGS2, where it's revealed that the 12 Patriots died over a hundred years ago.

Then in MGS4, Snake just says to Campbell, "WELP ALL THAT WAS BOGUS INFO FROM ARSENAL'S AI"

And then the number gets cut in half for no reason, despite the fact that even the President said there were twelve head members, not just the AI.

What about The Philosophers? We KNOW that they were around for decades before even World War 2, that they were all dead, and their American branch eventually (sorta) became The Patriots. Why not just state that it was twelve of those guys, and now the Patriots are just the AIs or something? Why use a bunch of characters that have no reason to form a conspiracy like that?

-Zero? Since when the fuck did he have a "lust for power"!?

-SIGINT and the DARPA Chief? "Ror, can't havu TWO burakku chalacters in za same univelse, ZEY MUSTU BE ZA SAME PALSON"

-Para-Medic as Dr. Clark? Ignoring that Dr. Clark was supposed to have been a MAN until this game, why would a nice (yet talkative and nerdy weeaboo) turn into an insane mad scientist who did insanely unethical cloning and genetic experiments? You know why Gray Fox killed her, right? BECAUSE SHE EXPERIMENTED ON HIM LIKE AN ANIMAL, KEEPING HIM IN CONSTANT PAIN AND INSANITY. There's absolutely no foreshadowing in any of the games that would suggest that she would have such a dark side, except for mayyyyyybe a convo in Snake Eater in which she mentions that cloning could be amazing. But even then, she says, "I can't condone it on moral grounds."

[close]

I mean, I don't mind crazy out-there stories in my MGS. But for God's sake, even a crazy out-there story can have some kind of coherency.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

For some reason I'm thinking PO expounds on the Zero thing a bit. I wish it'd gotten more love in MGS4 too as the fight with Gene was great.

[close]

[Solo]

I preferred MGS2's take on the Patriots, that it was some whack ass, crazy, rogue AI. Better than the nonsensical shoehorning of the MGS3 support team into the role. Its like HK just tried to tie every last thing together, no matter if those connections he forged made no sense at all.

[disgruntled_jojo]

Wow.  I don't know how many times you'd have had to play the previous games to remember all the points you guys are picking apart above.  I watched all the gametrailer retrospectives before starting MGS4, and I didn't notice any of that stuff.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

It felt like Kojima went out of his way to wrap everything up - I'll admit that - but it's nice to have it end without anything (at ALL) that could feed the forum troll theories for years to come about another sequel (on this storyline, at least).  Having everything wrapped up was super nice, even if several of the epilogue bits were paced a bit slowly and needed a good editor to make them snappier and have higher impact. 

Also, I think they should have panned the camera to the sunset during the snake suicide scene and just left it there, forcing you to pull the trigger as they did in MGS3 with the boss.

[close]

[Crushed]

Wow.  I don't know how many times you'd have had to play the previous games to remember all the points you guys are picking apart above.  I watched all the gametrailer retrospectives before starting MGS4, and I didn't notice any of that stuff.

A lot of them were explicitly mentioned during key moments in the story, so not really. And GT retrospectives usually fuck up a lot of stuff and are pretty basic.

[Rman]

Wow.  I don't know how many times you'd have had to play the previous games to remember all the points you guys are picking apart above.  I watched all the gametrailer retrospectives before starting MGS4, and I didn't notice any of that stuff.

A lot of them were explicitly mentioned during key moments in the story, so not really. And GT retrospectives usually fuck up a lot of stuff and are pretty basic.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Crushed, the MGS3 people were the founding members of the Patriots.  Kenneth Baker was also a member.  I guess the other five really don't matter because the dueling factions within the patriots--zero, singit, para-medic versus big boss, eva, ocelot--were the most critical to the story

[close]

[Crushed]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Crushed.  The MGS3 people were the founding members of the Patriots.  Kenneth Baker was also a member.  I guess the other five really don't matter because the dueling factions within the patriots--zero, singit, para-medic versus big boos, eva, ocelot--were the most critical to the story

[close]

Quiet Kojima, next you'll tell me that Snake never actually smoked in any of the games, it was always a holo-cigarette.

PS: who were the guys who SET UP THE BOSS' DEATH in MGS3? Remember, Portable Ops revealed that Volgin was on orders to fire a nuke so that The Boss would be forced to die at BB's hands. Zero hadn't "founded" the Patriots yet, because he did so out of respect for The Boss' ideals after the Legacy was recovered. Who was this mysterious organization if not the Patriots? Why are they separate?

[WrikaWrek]

Ok Crushed, you have crushed the illusion.

Now i can't forget it, because now i remember everything. All i'm thinking now is how many plot holes there are in MGS4.

Happy now?! 

And why the hell didn't Meryl at least once called Snake by his name? David? Will somebody teach the scriptwriter how to write some decent shit?! Such a simple thing, but that to me would've made a world of difference.

[Crushed]

Ok Crushed, you have crushed the illusion.

Now i can't forget it, because now i remember everything. All i'm thinking now is how many plot holes there are in MGS4.

Happy now?! 

Yes, my purpose is to destroy all of the fun in life.

PS: I'm just doing this because of all the people ranting about how "WOW NOW EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE KOJIMA MUST HAVE AN ELEPHANT'S MEMORY TO REMEMBER ALL THESE DETAILS" yet when you bring up something semi-major that MGS4 contradicts it turns into, "GOD WHO NEEDS TO REMEMBER STUPID DETAILS LIKE THAT"

[WrikaWrek]

Ok Crushed, you have crushed the illusion.

Now i can't forget it, because now i remember everything. All i'm thinking now is how many plot holes there are in MGS4.

Happy now?! 

Yes, my purpose is to destroy all of the fun in life.

PS: I'm just doing this because of all the people ranting about how "WOW NOW EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE KOJIMA MUST HAVE AN ELEPHANT'S MEMORY TO REMEMBER ALL THESE DETAILS" yet when you bring up something semi-major that MGS4 contradicts it turns into, "GOD WHO NEEDS TO REMEMBER STUPID DETAILS LIKE THAT"

You are completely right. Would be fun to see you post that in GAF. See, i know there's huge plot holes, i just don't care. But there's many people over there that would probably flip the world up side down just to try and prove you wrong since they consider Kojima the Grand master of story telling.

Or they would just ignore you lol

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

And why the hell didn't Meryl at least once called Snake by his name? David? Will somebody teach the scriptwriter how to write some decent shit?! Such a simple thing, but that to me would've made a world of difference.

"I don't get off my motorcycle unless I fall in love......or die."

"Oh, Big Mamma!"

"Call me Eva!"

That there is quality writting.

[Solo]

ITS THE FROGS

[WrikaWrek]

And why the hell didn't Meryl at least once called Snake by his name? David? Will somebody teach the scriptwriter how to write some decent shit?! Such a simple thing, but that to me would've made a world of difference.

"I don't get off my motorcycle unless I fall in love......or die."

"Oh, Big Mamma!"

"Call me Eva!"

That there is quality writting.

And snake calls her big mama again later. He could've called her Eva...

And what's up with Otacon crying? jesus christ

lol

Just went through the huge final set piece cut scene in act 3. It's amazing. But is it real time? I can't zoom in, i just found that out.

[WrikaWrek]

To be fair to Kojima, I don't have any clue as to whether he can write good dialogue or not.  Maybe Patel can speak to that.

Also i don't even know if Kojima writes the dialog. He has scriptwriters. And there's also something to be said about the translation, something that sounds good in Japanese, may sound hilariously stupid in English.

[Solo]

Just went through the huge final set piece cut scene in act 3. It's amazing. But is it real time? I can't zoom in, i just found that out.

There are 2-3 in the game you can't manipulate. As I understand it, those were ones with a shit-ton of stuff going on, so the engine probably ran at a nice 10fps or so. For these scenes, they recorded the scene and then sped it up later or something.

[WrikaWrek]

Just went through the huge final set piece cut scene in act 3. It's amazing. But is it real time? I can't zoom in, i just found that out.

There are 2-3 in the game you can't manipulate. As I understand it, those were ones with a shit-ton of stuff going on, so the engine probably ran at a nice 10fps or so. For these scenes, they recorded the scene and then sped it up later or something.

I guess i'm not crazy after all and i did notice those squares in the sky from the compression!!! I was calling myself crazy!

[ferrarimanf355]

I suck at sneaking around. Imma going to get the LE guide tomorrow...

[MCD]

SHOW ME YOUR RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

[Rman]

I suck at sneaking around. Imma going to get the LE guide tomorrow...

Non lethal weapons are your friend.

[Solo]

Good lord, the GAF MGS4 thread is getting to the point where you're knee deep in semen; its the equivalent of the Batman Begins love on the OT side.

[Mr. Gundam]

I FINALLY got to start the game today. I'm loving it so far, and since I just replayed MGS3, it's really cool to see how much the controls/gameplay has progressed. I like being able to help out the local militias by fighting the PMCs.

Also picked up the LE guide book today, pretty cool.

[TVC15]

Good lord, the GAF MGS4 thread is getting to the point where you're knee deep in semen; its the equivalent of the Batman Begins love on the OT side.

Yeah, I know.  The coronation of a new sacred cow.  I think my assessment (and the one shared by at least a few others) is the level-headed one:  Best gameplay, worst story.  

However, since I like the story so much in the other games, I'd probably rank this one as only my third favorite, behind 2 and 3.

[WrikaWrek]

Good lord, the GAF MGS4 thread is getting to the point where you're knee deep in semen; its the equivalent of the Batman Begins love on the OT side.

Saw your post there. Lol

Just forget it man. It's gaf, each MGS that comes out gets treatment like that. It's always the best game ever.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm not sure I can recommend this game to anyone outside of Metal Gear fans.  It's a solid game, but not worth the hyperbole being tossed around.

[The Fake Shemp]

Forget it, Jake.  It's NeoGAF.

[Solo]

Yeah, I know.  The coronation of a new sacred cow.  I think my assessment (and the one shared by at least a few others) is the level-headed one:  Best gameplay, worst story.

Yup, best gameplay, worst story is what MGS4 is packing.

Storywise for me its 2 (yes, I love the nonsensical wackiness of it all, its flawed as hell but at least it tries something different) > 1 > 3 > 4.

[TVC15]

I'm not sure I can recommend this game to anyone outside of Metal Gear fans.  It's a solid game, but not worth the hyperbole being tossed around.

Only because it's so tied into the narrative of previous games.  I think the gameplay stands up decently well in this one.  This was definitely less of a letdown than GTA4 was.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I'm still not sure how anyone can determine which MGS game has the least reprehensible story, though I suppose the first one was decent enough until Liquid shows up and starts ranting on about genetics. 2,3, and 4 though.....oh brother.  I just gotta shake my head in disbelief at the people that honestly and truly enjoy this.  It's one big pile of steaming nonsense wrapped up in a very pretty package....like Mormonism.  MGS is the Joseph Smith of videogames.

[BlueTsunami]

I enjoyed the fanservice but really disliked the main plot, it bored the hell out of me.

Also, it was stated on GAF but the next Kojima Productions game should be Ninja Raiden developed by Itagaki please . Something like this could happen too, considering what happened with Itagaki and Tecmo and how chummy hes been with Kojima.

[TVC15]

I'm still not sure how anyone can determine which MGS game has the least reprehensible story, though I suppose the first one was decent enough until Liquid shows up and starts ranting on about genetics. 2,3, and 4 though.....oh brother.  I just gotta shake my head in disbelief at the people that honestly and truly enjoy this.  It's one big pile of steaming nonsense wrapped up in a very pretty package....like Mormonism.  MGS is the Joseph Smith of videogames.

I rank 1 the worst because the whole I Killed A Boss, Now I Get To Hear His Life Story thing is terrible.  And the ending with Naomi or whatever ranting about living life for 20 minutes is unbelievably sappy.  And then you get to hear a sappy song with moany vocals that MGS fans worship.

The transgressions in 2 really don't bug me that much.  The whole ordeal strikes a delicate balance between ridiculous and awesome.  Some of the Rose stuff was a bit too much, but Otacon fucking his mom--pure awesome.  And the late game narrative shift into wacky AI mind fuckery probably makes me forget a lot of sins.

The 3rd game is just really solid, all around.  It doesn't hit the heights of 2 (for me), but there's really not a low in it.  I'd say it's the most consistent game in the series.  If I were doing a fair ranking, I'd probably rank it right alongside 2 as my favorite.

You see, I'd say 2 is my favorite because of how memorable it was when playing it the first time.  The virginal playthrough counts a lot for me.  MGS3 is more replayable, but it never had the impact that the first playthrough of MGS2 had for me.  MGS2 was like, "woah, videogames can have stories that do interesting things," and while MGS3 was good all around, it didn't stick the shocker in my ass.

[Raban]

I watched all the cutscenes from MGS4 and I want to kill myself now. People hail this as good writing?

And I'm with TVC, MGS2 is my favorite in the series as well.

[Narag]

I'm still not sure how anyone can determine which MGS game has the least reprehensible story, though I suppose the first one was decent enough until Liquid shows up and starts ranting on about genetics. 2,3, and 4 though.....oh brother.  I just gotta shake my head in disbelief at the people that honestly and truly enjoy this.  It's one big pile of steaming nonsense wrapped up in a very pretty package....like Mormonism.  MGS is the Joseph Smith of videogames.

Don't confuse the people that enjoy it with those that live and breathe it. Its just distinguished mentally-challenged conspiracy theory fun for a lot of us. Others, like Safe Bet on GAF, rely on them as lifechanging events though.

[Solo]

The transgressions in 2 really don't bug me that much.  The whole ordeal strikes a delicate balance between ridiculous and awesome.  Some of the Rose stuff was a bit too much, but Otacon fucking his mom--pure awesome.  And the late game narrative shift into wacky AI mind fuckery probably makes me forget a lot of sins.

You see, I'd say 2 is my favorite because of how memorable it was when playing it the first time.  The virginal playthrough counts a lot for me.  MGS3 is more replayable, but it never had the impact that the first playthrough of MGS2 had for me.  MGS2 was like, "woah, videogames can have stories that do interesting things," and while MGS3 was good all around, it didn't stick the shocker in my ass.

Just summed up why I love MGS2 so much. I enjoy the mindfucking in the final few hours. FISSION MAILED.

[MCD]

the colonel...

act 2 spoilers...kinda

spoiler (click to show/hide)

HE MARRIED ROSEMARY

[close]

[BlueTsunami]

MGS2 is a classic and it definitely wasn't being weighed down by lots of loose ends. I think this is what hurt MGS4. The whole game was essentially Kojima tieing up everything from MGS1 to MGS3. Thats a lot of shit to tie up.

[BlueTsunami]

What did you guys think of the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Final fight against Liquid Ocelot? I freakin loved it. I would almost say that its the best part of the whole game but I think I'm leaving that for piloting Rex against Ray

[close]

[WrikaWrek]

What did you guys think of the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Final fight against Liquid Ocelot? I freakin loved it. I would almost say that its the best part of the whole game but I think I'm leaving that for piloting Rex against Ray

[close]

It surprised me and it was fucking bad ass. Since long that i wanted a follow up to the Snake vs Liquid on top of Rex.

[Narag]

What did you guys think of the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Final fight against Liquid Ocelot? I freakin loved it. I would almost say that its the best part of the whole game but I think I'm leaving that for piloting Rex against Ray

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The health bars during that fight sold me on it.

[close]

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I'm still not sure how anyone can determine which MGS game has the least reprehensible story, though I suppose the first one was decent enough until Liquid shows up and starts ranting on about genetics. 2,3, and 4 though.....oh brother.  I just gotta shake my head in disbelief at the people that honestly and truly enjoy this.  It's one big pile of steaming nonsense wrapped up in a very pretty package....like Mormonism.  MGS is the Joseph Smith of videogames.

Don't confuse the people that enjoy it with those that live and breathe it. Its just distinguished mentally-challenged conspiracy theory fun for a lot of us. Others, like Safe Bet on GAF, rely on them as lifechanging events though.

Oh I know. Those are the people I direct almost all of my MGS ire at - the "high art", "you're too dumb to understand the complexities", and "storytelling genius" crowd.  As shallow as it may sound if it weren't for them I'd almost be willing to look past some of the obnoxious plot points, horrendous writting, and hours and hours of needlessly boring exposition that goes nowhere and enjoy a little of the campiness, but in the back of my mind all I can picture is them sitting in their basement with their cry hankies writting fan letters to Kojima discussing how amazing that he's opening people's minds to the real issues in the world. Lunacy I tell you.  My only hope is that someone, somewhere makes a MGS movie and does a 1:1 with the source material.  Maybe then they'd finally open their eyes and see what a gigantic fuck bucket it all is.

.......


I hate sounding this negative when I'm actually enjoying MGS4 alot more than I ever thought I would be but when I read some of the pole smoking reviews and message board hyperbole my brain just short fuses.

[Bloodwake]

My new favorite game.

Great gameplay, storyline, etc. and probably  the best boss battle in gaming.

This post will be followed by people who will disagree because this is Evilbore.

[Brehvolution]

It's a story that took 2 decades to complete. You can't please everyone. There  are going to be opinions on both sides. Can we at least be happy that it wasn't done in 480P with waggle controls? Only God knows what Kojima would have done with that.

[Narag]

It's a story that took 2 decades to complete. You can't please everyone. There  are going to be opinions on both sides. Can we at least be happy that it wasn't done in 480P with waggle controls? Only God knows what Kojima would have done with that.

That's about as relevant as just coming out and telling people they should be thankful they got it at all.

And if it was 480p and with waggle, the same fans would still be sucking kojima's dick for a taste of his genius.

[Crushed]

It's a story that took 2 decades to complete. You can't please everyone. There  are going to be opinions on both sides. Can we at least be happy that it wasn't done in 480P with waggle controls? Only God knows what Kojima would have done with that.

He would have made it so that you would have to place the Wiimote in your mouth to shoot Snake.

And yes, he would make it so it could tell that it was your mouth.


And yes, it would actually shoot a bullet into your brain.



BTW: MGS4 already has waggle controls.

[Brehvolution]

It's a story that took 2 decades to complete. You can't please everyone. There  are going to be opinions on both sides. Can we at least be happy that it wasn't done in 480P with waggle controls? Only God knows what Kojima would have done with that.

He would have made it so that you would have to place the Wiimote in your mouth to shoot Snake.

And yes, he would make it so it could tell that it was your mouth.


And yes, it would actually shoot a bullet into your brain.



BTW: MGS4 already has waggle controls.

The media would have a field day with that. And the waggle controls are thankfully a side show.

[Bloodwake]

It's just like with every game. There's people that get it and there's people that don't.

I'm glad I get this one, cause it just happens to be a masterpiece.

[Crushed]

It's just like with every game. There's people that get it and there's people that don't.

I'm glad I get this one, cause it just happens to be a masterpiece.

Gameplay wise? Sure.

Story wise? It's a clusterfuck of Brobdingnagian proportion, a mess of retcons, fanservice, and empty attempts at "moving" and "epic" scenes which fall flat compared to previous games.

[Mupepe]

ok, finally got past the stupid mission about following the resistance douche and omfg, the chase sequence was fucking sex.  it is seriously the most impressive thing i've seen on a console.  holy fuck.  so much fun too.

[Bloodwake]

fucking sex

Pretty much the whole fucking game for me.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

ok, finally got past the stupid mission about following the resistance douche and omfg, the chase sequence was fucking sex.  it is seriously the most impressive thing i've seen on a console.  holy fuck.  so much fun too.

The motorcycle chase is fucking mindblowing even if it was on rails.  Someone needs to make an entire game like that.

Now prepare yourself for a little fan service in Act 4.

[MCD]

i think the media showed too much, during the whole vamp vs raiden scene i was like: is there anything new added here? lol.

[Narag]

I wish I hadn't watched the trailers as that scene would've had more of a punch to it otherwise.

[Positive Touch]

oh my god at the ending.  THAT was how you choose to wrap up 20 years of work kojima?  I guess it fits with all the other lulz the series has produced over the years.  at least the final shot looked pretty cool. 

ending spoilers:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

"congratulations big boss, we brought you back to life after decades in a coma using incredible technology and an insane amount of work!  what do you want to do?" 

"Well, i guess i'm gonna go have a five minute conversation with my kid and discuss stupid shit that he could have already known if naomi wasn't a fucking idiot, even though i know it will kill me."

"sounds great!!!"

 

WHY COULDN'T OCELOT JUST UPLOAD THE FUCKING VIRUS HIMSELF?

[close]

[Positive Touch]

oh and johnny sasaki is an even shittier character than fatman

[Don Flamenco]

OMG ACT 3 + BEGINNING OF 4

spoiler (click to show/hide)

my brain is dead from the retardedness.  I had a grasp of the series before going into this game...now I've stopped caring.

[close]

[Positive Touch]

NANOMACHINES