Tom Chick Does It Again-MGS4 : "Fry It"

[Fragamemnon]

In the end, Tom was mostly right about Deus Ex when he criticized that game back in 2000. Here's a probably even more controversial (and accurate) review of MGS4 over at CrispyGaner, the current happening place for freelance reviewers:

http://www.crispygamer.com/_GeneratedPages/GameReviews/Review170.aspx

Instead, this review is for everyone else. It's partly for those who, like me, dabbled in the previous games. It's mostly for those who might have had their interest piqued by the marketing or who fell for the "tactical espionage action" tagline on the box (only one of the three is true, and only occasionally). For you, I cannot stress enough that this is a terrible, terrible game

There are two parts to a Metal Gear: the gameplay and the cut scenes. Over progressive titles, those parts have come unglued from each other, and it's obvious where developer Hideo Kojima's heart is. In Metal Gear Solid 4, gameplay and cut scenes have finally reversed their traditional roles of substance and filler. If you don't count having to replay the parts where you'll invariably get stuck, there's more here to watch than there is to play.

This might not be so bad if you were watching something interesting, or even comprehensible. Instead, you're watching an indulgent series finale that exhaustively reiterates details and piles nonsensical twist on top of nonsensical twist. Without a degree in Metal Gear Solidology, you will be hopelessly lost, and by the time it's over, you will have long since ceased to care.

Kojima's main problem isn't the clot of facile political nonsense. More damning is that his characters are so unconvincingly comic-book. At one point, an estranged child confesses that he thinks his father is cool because he "reminds [him] of a comic book superhero." You ain't kidding, kid. There is no sign of the human condition in this mess. Even Snake's aging is a sci-fi plot twist. There is one exhilarating payoff -- the Johnny/Akiba confession -- that would have been more exhilarating if it weren't lifted wholesale from "Mr. and Mrs. Smith." It's almost as if Kojima's gunplay-as-coitus riff is an accident. The way two characters slap clips into each other's guns is probably the closest a Metal Gear Solid game has gotten to an authentic human moment. It is then buried under nearly two hours of exposition that follows the final boss battle.

But for the most part, the gameplay is the same tired and dated stealth gimmick. Despite the tease of the living battlefield, Kojima shows little interest in actually designing a game. The stealth and gunplay are at odds, and the war price system is barely used, which means the gun purchases are a formality. Necessary guns are rolled out with the plot, anyway. Mix in a few on-rail vehicle sequences, some old-school boss battles, and one terrible door chokepoint. As a game, this is a collection of poorly related fragments.

Finally, the coup de grace:

Perhaps most disappointing is that Kojima seems to have lost some of his playfulness. Metal Gear Solid 4 opens with a disarming set of TV show gags (including one with an on-camera David Hayter joining the fun), but then it gets earnest and mostly stays there. At one point, you defeat a boss simply because you're not on an original PlayStation, and there is also a wonderful original PlayStation dream sequence. Perhaps more of this humor might have kept the story from being such a wet blanket. Like Lucas, sometimes Spielberg, and the Siblings Wachowski, Kojima seems shut inside an echo chamber where no one tells him "no" and devoted fans scream "yes" no matter what he does. I mean no malice when I say they get what they deserve. The rest of us are better off steering clear.

I was wondering when someone who actually valued game mechanics and wasn't a total MGS-head would get around to reviewing the game and weighing it on a more balanced merit. I played most of MGS1, like 1/3 of MGS2, and avoided 3 (and now 4) because of just how weak the gameplay was and how much incomprehensible, painfully written cutscenes I had to wade through.

He and Crispygamer get hate mail a mile long for this (wouldn't this be a 0/100 at a site like gamerankings or metacritic?), but I'm glad someone is reviewing the game from the perspective of both an semi-outsider to the series and in the shoes of someone looking for a fun game to PLAY (and not a movie to watch).

[Crushed]

MGS4: funnest video GAME of playing for players to play, only nongaming movie watchers hate it so much.

Kojima
mgs' hours upon hours of pure gameplay

[cool breeze]

I don't think he liked Speed Racer.

[TVC15]

Of course Tom Chick was going to hate it--there's no attack-move.

[Draft]

Spot on with the cutscenes and storyline.

Overly harsh on the gameplay.

I am in chapter 3 now, and fully skipping cutscenes. They are completely out of control. I watched one for like 2 minutes because I thought Otacon and Naomi were going to fuck, and then she started on about the little girl living inside the computer. I just don't understand.

[Van Cruncheon]

as i was telling tvc, tom makes some great points, but misses the overall point. i remember an argument i had with him about silent hill 2 (which is one of the few games i actually consider to be a legitimately unique take on storytelling), where he insisted that silent hill 2 was nothing more than rambling about in the fog swinging a pipe, occasionally punctuated by strange dialogue exchanges and unwinnable boss battles. yep, tom, you didn't get it.

the same is true for mgs4. while -- so far -- i think it lacks the literary cleverness of silent hill 2, and doesn't use game mechanics as an effective measure to convey mood (instead relying on bars and numbers) the way the aforementioned game does, there *is* something a little bigger than the game itself trying to emerge, something wholly unique to the interactive medium that can't be replicated in more traditional media.

[Crushed]

as i was telling tvc, tom makes some great points, but misses the overall point. i remember an argument i had with him about silent hill 2 (which is one of the few games i actually consider to be a legitimately unique take on storytelling), where he insisted that silent hill 2 was nothing more than rambling about in the fog swinging a pipe, occasionally punctuated by strange dialogue exchanges and unwinnable boss battles. yep, tom, you didn't get it.

"what hole was here? a hole cannot be gone unless it is filled, and i see no mortar or plaster laid. this is stupid"

[cool breeze]

Spot on with the cutscenes and storyline.

Overly harsh on the gameplay.

I am in chapter 3 now, and fully skipping cutscenes. They are completely out of control. I watched one for like 2 minutes because I thought Otacon and Naomi were going to fuck, and then she started on about the little girl living inside the computer. I just don't understand.

Sunny is a social fuck up who was raised without any human interaction and only used computers (No obvious joke here).  Doing this she became super smart with computers.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Spot on with the cutscenes and storyline.

Overly harsh on the gameplay.

I am in chapter 3 now, and fully skipping cutscenes. They are completely out of control. I watched one for like 2 minutes because I thought Otacon and Naomi were going to fuck, and then she started on about the little girl living inside the computer. I just don't understand.

If you've just started Act 3 then most of the gameplay in MGS4 is already over.

[Mupepe]

fuck him.  he's wrong based on the motorcycle chase scene alone.  what an omfg moment.  seriously.

[Draft]

Spot on with the cutscenes and storyline.

Overly harsh on the gameplay.

I am in chapter 3 now, and fully skipping cutscenes. They are completely out of control. I watched one for like 2 minutes because I thought Otacon and Naomi were going to fuck, and then she started on about the little girl living inside the computer. I just don't understand.

If you've just started Act 3 then most of the gameplay in MGS4 is already over.

Xfag fud. Gameplay is clearly alive and well. I am now sneaking around behind a whistling man who runs and hides at random while I shoot dudes from S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with a sniper tranq rifle.

[Van Cruncheon]

i think tvc nailed it in an im conversation: the mgs series does crazy spectacle like no other game does, and if you reduce that out of the equation, you aren't gonna get the game, period.

[The Fake Shemp]

BUT IS IT FUN?

[Mupepe]

very!

[Fragamemnon]

i think tvc nailed it in an im conversation: the mgs series does crazy spectacle like no other game does, and if you reduce that out of the equation, you aren't gonna get the game, period.

Right-and if the spectacle being sported doesn't interest you because you A) haven't followed the series and B) weight the spectacle as something, at some point, trying to be a actually communicate a meaningful narrative to the player, then I can see how you'd string it up the way he did in that review-"shit don't make sense and I've got other games that actually PLAY rather than watch this whack-ass two hour cutscene. Fuck this noise."

Which is about what I said two hours of the way through MGS2 when I put that turd down and took it back to EBGamestop the same day I bought it way back when for the PS2. I can think of only two other games that earned that distinction-the original Black and White and Total Annihilation: Kingdoms. (the latter of which I now admit was unfair)

[Crushed]

I've got other games that actually PLAY rather than watch this whack-ass two hour cutscene. Fuck this noise."

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

[The Fake Shemp]

Not this one!

[Himu]

I've got other games that actually PLAY rather than watch this whack-ass two hour cutscene. Fuck this noise."

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

This. They emphasize replayability, and actually reward players for playing in unique ways. Example: no kills playthough, no alerts playthrough. You completely challenge yourself in MGS games and get a reward for it. Most other games can't say that.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I've got other games that actually PLAY rather than watch this whack-ass two hour cutscene. Fuck this noise."

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

Maybe the others but that sure as shit isn't true with MGS4.

[Raban]

How did I never hear of this site? Bookmark'd.

[cool breeze]

Maybe the others but that sure as shit isn't true with MGS4.

The ratio is still bad, but there is about 5 hours of cutscenes for the 15 hours of gameplay.

[Crushed]

Not this one!

Maybe the others but that sure as shit isn't true with MGS4.

If you keep saying something false, it'll become true! The dirty math and numbers will go away!

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Well I haven't done the math but by the end of the game it felt like from Act 3 onward I was more or less just watching most of it rather than playing it.

[Van Cruncheon]

it's not a meaningful narrative -- in fact, unlike mgs2, the game seems largely free of any real meaning, consumed as it is with fan service and retconning. but does that really matter? in the end, it's almost anti-cerebral -- it's crazy, loud, over-the-top gaming nonsense aimed straight for your hindbrain, right down to the disturbingly sexy visuals and choreography. it's a spectacle. it's all the amusing fatuousness of comic books wed to the drier parts of "riley ace of spies," with a heavy tilt towards individual animu cliches and the attendant bombast only a serious geek could create.

reducing it to its narrative and the time spent "playing," yeah, it's crap. but on the other hand, taken altogether, it's kinda weirdly awesome.

maybe it gets worse in act iii. i'll find out this week. right now, i'm enjoying it in spite of its pretentiousness, but then again, maybe i'm just in an indulgent mood. and FUCK it looks good.

[Fragamemnon]

I've got other games that actually PLAY rather than watch this whack-ass two hour cutscene. Fuck this noise."

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

Which has nothing to do with what I said-seems like with this series it's "play for a bit, watch for a bit, play for a bit, watch for a bit", with the watchy parts getting more and more incomprehensible and lengthy as time goes by. I'm still do way more watching (and listening), not making any choices, and eventually the control of the game is handed back to me after a usually lengthy period of time and I suppose I should thank Kojima for letting me interact once again with my interactive entertainment software.

You could skip the cutscenes and what not, but then the game wouldn't even have the "ridiculous spectacle" thing going for it.

[Van Cruncheon]

the boss bits, as with 3, are the best parts fo' sho', because they wed both spectacle and mechanics in some pretty clever ways. well, okay, the laughing octopus fight did.

[Fragamemnon]

it's not a meaningful narrative -- in fact, unlike mgs2, the game seems largely free of any real meaning, consumed as it is with fan service and retconning. but does that really matter? in the end, it's almost anti-cerebral -- it's crazy, loud, over-the-top gaming nonsense aimed straight for your hindbrain, right down to the disturbingly sexy visuals and choreography. it's a spectacle. it's all the amusing fatuousness of comic books wed to the drier parts of "riley ace of spies," with a heavy tilt towards individual animu cliches and the attendant bombast only a serious geek could create.

I can't look past the "nonsense" part, though. Maybe it's just me, but to intentionally make all of this effort in your games, to have this huge legion of fanboys, and have such colossal hype surrounding your game, lends credence to the fact that it simply can't be just a ridiculous, over the top "just how much wacked out shit can we stuff in game and get millions and millions in funding for it?" experiement.

[Fragamemnon]

also note that my brain is very much attuned for hard analytics over anything else. For example, when discussing some workload distribution/management issues today with a co-worker, I had to restrain myself from breakout out the hard statistics and probability  to make some points, and instead cook up some metaphor instead. :/

So I probably just don't "get" the sort of spectacle-divide by zero and what not, any attempt to make sense and reduce the narrative to meaningful components fails because it is essentially encrypted in a vile absurdist cipher.

Going back to the gameplay though-I thought the games that I played ranged anywhere from "clunky and awkward" (MGS1) to "awful" (the part of MGS2 I played). Thief (which came after MGS1, I think, to be fair) and Splinter Cell always struck me as better at actually making a game out of infiltration and espionage.

Then again, I can't help but think reading this thread that infiltration and espioage gameplay is like the very last thing MGS is about.

[Van Cruncheon]

mgs is about mgs. it may be a disingenuous tautology, but it really is its own self-contained little world of auteur-created wackiness. that's neither praise nor condemnation, by the way.

[crimsondynamics]

mgs is about mgs. it may be a disingenuous tautology, but it really is its own self-contained little world of auteur-created wackiness. that's neither praise nor condemnation, by the way.

Kinda like the Matrix.

[Mupepe]

mgs is about mgs. it may be a disingenuous tautology, but it really is its own self-contained little world of auteur-created wackiness. that's neither praise nor condemnation, by the way.

Kinda like the Matrix.

Except as MGS went on, it didn't fall apart nearly as bad as the matrix did

[crimsondynamics]

mgs is about mgs. it may be a disingenuous tautology, but it really is its own self-contained little world of auteur-created wackiness. that's neither praise nor condemnation, by the way.

Kinda like the Matrix.

Except as MGS went on, it didn't fall apart nearly as bad as the matrix did

I dunno, but the first one was the only one that was really wowzers for me. The other two were more like The Matrix Regurgitated.

[dark1x]

I can agree with some of his points and I do feel that Kojima just went way too crazy with cutscenes this time, but I do feel that the gameplay has improved greatly.  I simply wish there was more of it (though, to be fair, there is at least as much gameplay here as any other major action game these days...the game only becomes much longer as a result of its cutscenes).

Act II was fantastic, for instance.  During the segments prior to the boss fight, I actually had that old feeling I used to get when playing Deus Ex or Thief.  I didn't spent the whole time crawling around nor shooting everything that moves, but rather, made my own path through linear yet open environments and took advantage of what the game offered.  I thought it played beautifully and I would have loved for MORE of that style of gameplay.  Previous games in the series were nowhere near as refined.  The gameplay here COULD stand out on its own.  That's not to say that the controls are perfect or anything, but they work well enough to allow the player plenty of freedom in how they play.

I was extremely disappointed in Act III, however.  I mean, there were some nifty scenes in there (the motorcycle), but the lack of gameplay was crushing.  They completely wasted the city environment.  It could have been so much more.  I could have totally gone for a Bourne style open city environment (lots of crowds, tracking the "guy" through said crowds, and eventually chasing him down).  Perhaps allow the player to go through the initial train arrival scene themselves ala Half-Life 2 or something.  They could then have followed that up by allowing the player to work their way into "Big Mama's hideout".  Then, after the chase, they should have allowed you to work your way down to the harbor rather than just placing you there via a cutscene.  I've stopped after Act III, however, but I've heard the rest of the game pretty much continues in that fashion (tons of cutscenes with little gameplay).

Still, I can enjoy the crazy cutscenes.  I know damn well that it's all very comic-bookish, but that isn't necessarily a negative.  One can still enjoy "high literature" while getting kicks from cheese.  Same deal with movies.  I love (and prefer) well written masterpieces but can still enjoy over the top cheese fests.  Of course, I can just as easily understand why others wouldn't care for it, but enjoying the story sequences of MGS4 should not immediately imply that one has no knowledge or experience with quality writing either.

I really do think that now more than ever, Kojima has excluded non-fans of the series.  This game would be almost impossible to enjoy if you had not played previous installments, I'd imagine.  While everyone has hyped this game up as some savior of the PS3, I don't think viewing it as such is a good idea at all.  There is no way in hell this game will work for anyone other than fans.  Of course, in a similar fashion, all of those Harry Potter books received tons of hype and attention yet would be impossible to enjoy if you had not kept up with the previous works.  I suppose MGS4 is friendly to newcomers than that simply because there IS a game buried within the fan service.

[Positive Touch]

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

yeah bullshit.  MGS 1 & 2 are 10-hour games with about 4 hours of gameplay.  I haven't had a chance to play through MGS4 without watching any story scenes, but the game clearly has way more story sequences for most of the the game than gameplay segments.  I mean act 5 takes three or so hours, but there are only two rooms you fight through and two boss fights.  MGS3 is the only game in the series (besides the portable ones) that has more gameplay than story.

[Bacon]

I like the Mac fetish in MGS4.

[dark1x]

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

yeah bullshit.  MGS 1 & 2 are 10-hour games with about 4 hours of gameplay.  I haven't had a chance to play through MGS4 without watching any story scenes, but the game clearly has way more story sequences for most of the the game than gameplay segments.  I mean act 5 takes three or so hours, but there are only two rooms you fight through and two boss fights.  MGS3 is the only game in the series (besides the portable ones) that has more gameplay than story.

Yep, that's about right.  MGS3 struck the perfect balance.

Still, Act 1 and 2 in MGS4 are pretty well balanced with plenty of gameplay mixed in with the cutscenes.  I'd say there was about as much gameplay in the first two acts as the entire Call of Duty 4 campaign.  It took me like 6 hours to finished CoD4, yet I clocked around 11 hours for Acts 1 and 2 of MGS4.

[Crushed]

Except MGS games have far more gameplay than cutscenes.

yeah bullshit.  MGS 1 & 2 are 10-hour games with about 4 hours of gameplay.  I haven't had a chance to play through MGS4 without watching any story scenes, but the game clearly has way more story sequences for most of the the game than gameplay segments.  I mean act 5 takes three or so hours, but there are only two rooms you fight through and two boss fights.  MGS3 is the only game in the series (besides the portable ones) that has more gameplay than story.

Sorry you failed math class and how to tell time in kindergarten.  :'(

[Positive Touch]

I've played 1 & 2 many, many, many times, and I keep track of how long it takes for me to beat each game when I watch all of the story scenes, and how long it takes when I don't.  I'm sorry, but you are wrong.  Watch though the story mode in MGS1 and see how long it takes if you don't believe me!

[Crushed]

I've played 1 & 2 many, many, many times, and I keep track of how long it takes for me to beat each game when I watch all of the story scenes, and how long it takes when I don't.  I'm sorry, but you are wrong.  Watch though the story mode in MGS1 and see how long it takes if you don't believe me!

15-20 hour games (the first time around), around 3-4 hours of cutscenes.

Sorry the numbers don't like you so much.  :'(

[MCD]

agreed darkx, when i saw act 3, i said to myself: they can make a whole new game on this city alone, it was that awesome.

too bad the execution was poor.

[The Fake Shemp]

Fifteen to twenty hours?

[Crushed]

Fifteen to twenty hours?

The first time you play through them, yes. Not every person runs through the entire game as fast as possible so they can return it in time.

[Positive Touch]

15 to 20 hours for MGS 1 and 2?  Sorry but I've never heard people say that either game took them nearly that long.  And 3-4 hours of story sequences?  Have you really played these games?  There's an entire hour (not an exagerration) of cutscenes between the RAY boss fight and the Solidus boss fight.  Don't try to tell me there's only three hours of cutscenes throughout the entire rest of MGS2. 

[Eel O'Brian]

by the time i get around to finishing the essential msg boxed set this game will be $30, and even if i hate it i won't have lost much

yay for procrastination

[Crushed]

15 to 20 hours for MGS 1 and 2?  Sorry but I've never heard people say that either game took them nearly that long.  And 3-4 hours of story sequences?  Have you really played these games?  There's an entire hour (not an exagerration) of cutscenes between the RAY boss fight and the Solidus boss fight.  Don't try to tell me there's only three hours of cutscenes throughout the entire rest of MGS2. 

There's fourty-five minutes, and it's the longest scene in the entire game by FAR, broken into several scenes in fact.

Okay, there's more than 3, but it's still around four.

Tanker chapter:
A little less than a single hour of cutscenes

Approximately 1 hour of cutscenes (Start of Plant Chapter-Harrier Fight):
http://www.mgstruefans.aimbum.net/mgs2cutscenes2.html

Approximately 1 hour of cutscenes (Harrier Fight-Oil Fence)
http://www.mgstruefans.aimbum.net/mgs2cutscenes3.html

Approximately 80 minutes of cutscenes (Oil Fence-Solidus fight)
http://www.mgstruefans.aimbum.net/mgs2cutscenes4.html

Approximately 20 minutes of cutscenes (Solidus fight-ending + 7 minutes of credits)
http://www.mgstruefans.aimbum.net/mgs2cutscenes5.html


Around 4 and a half hours in the infamous "OH GOD IT'S NOTHING BUT CUTSCENES" MGS2.

BTW: It took me 17 hours to beat the game the first time because I took my time.

[Crushed]

Jesus Crushed, when you get in to something, you really fucking get in to it.

Take a break.

Yes, copy and pasting links from a website and using arithmetic, it's just obsessive labor.

[Fragamemnon]

It's not really just a matter of sum time playing versus time listening to awfully written dialogue though-it's also a matter of pacing and measured and careful delivery of the narrative, which seems to have gone completely over to the ridiculous end with the inclusion of those HUGE cutscenes.

mgs is about mgs. it may be a disingenuous tautology, but it really is its own self-contained little world of auteur-created wackiness.

Yeah I don't really buy that. I think it can be also (correctly) construed as a meandering heap of self-indulgent, poorly written dialogue surrounded by half-realized gameplay elements that really only exist to connect one bout of explosive narrative diarrhea to the next.

 Is that reducing MGS to essential critiquable elements, and in doing so perhaps missing a part of the holistic identity of the game? Yes. Is it fair to do so? Certainly, I would think it would have to be-else we might as well give a free pass to all of the other games that make intentionally poor design decisions in the name of the games'  identity? Hell no, that's bullshit.

[Positive Touch]

but that site leaves out all of the codec convos that aren't attached to cutscenes, and not all of the times they have for those videos is accurate.  Also, sorta on what Frag said, it's the pacing that drags it down too.  There are almost no rooms in all of MGS2 where you aren't stopped at some point to watch a cutscene or the codec.  Almost EVERY SINGLE ROOM in the entire game stops you at least once, and that's what pisses me off more than anything.

[Crushed]

"You may have FACTS on your side, but I know in my HEART that it's TRUTHY that MGS1 and 2 have more cutscenes than gameplay."

[Positive Touch]

i'm saying your "facts" are incorrect, but keep this bullshit up, please

[MCD]

crushed, are you including codec calls as cutscenes too?

to me, they are just as important.

[Positive Touch]

the stuff crushed is quoting has codec convos that are included in major cutscenes (like when you first meet Emma), but it leaves out other conversations that appear at caertain times, and it doesn't include those god-awful conversations with Rose that occur when you save.  So yeah, there are other scenes that aren't included in his tally.

[Crushed]

crushed, are you including codec calls as cutscenes too?

to me, they are just as important.

Yes, they are included in those.

But the ones that are in no way important to the plot and which constitute maybe less than half an hour combined aren't in there.

[dark1x]

i'm saying your "facts" are incorrect, but keep this bullshit up, please

The problem with attempting to argue one way or another on this matter is that the time required to complete the gameplay segments is variable while the cutscenes are not.  When someone first plays through a game, for instance, it will require more time than if they were to replay it.  If you are basing your statement on your own experience with the gameplay, you are probably referring to your replays through the games rather than your initial experience.  As you improve and become familiar with the game, the amount of time required to complete each segment decreases while the cutscene and codec length remain constant.

You also have to consider that some players may require more time than others.  The only thing we can say for certain is that the games contain a lot of cutscenes and codec dialog.  Whether or not there is more gameplay than cutscenes or vise-versa is not something we can realistically determine.

[WrikaWrek]

All MGSs took me 10/12 hours first time around.


8/9 hours for the next playthroughs.

MGS4 is the first MGS where it actually took me 20 hours to beat. I guess some people like to explore and make time, me? Man there's a story going on, i'm playing a role, so if my goal is to go from A to B i go from A to B, i don't stop for 30 minutes in A to watch the birds take a shit before i move to B.

[Raban]

@ this entire thread, wow

[Smooth Groove]

fuck him.  he's wrong based on the motorcycle chase scene alone.  what an omfg moment.  seriously.

Yes, it's by far the most impressive semi-interactive sequence on the PS3.  It blows away similar moments in Heavenly Sword and Uncharted simply because it doesn't have the tearing or slowdown problems. 

People keep shitting on Japanese developers' ability to do next-gen graphics but Jap devs like Kojima and the DMC4 just aren't willing to compromise performance for higher visual fidelity, which is a good thing. 

[TVC15]

All MGSs took me 10/12 hours first time around.


8/9 hours for the next playthroughs.

MGS4 is the first MGS where it actually took me 20 hours to beat. I guess some people like to explore and make time, me? Man there's a story going on, i'm playing a role, so if my goal is to go from A to B i go from A to B, i don't stop for 30 minutes in A to watch the birds take a shit before i move to B.

MGS4 was the shortest MGS on my first playthrough.  My final save is just over 16 hours, and I easily wasted an hour being confused at the beginning of Act 3, and probably another half hour or so on a portion of Act 4 where I couldn't locate the door I needed to go through.

[MCD]

i wasted so much time at the bosses, frustrating bitches.

and mostly because i didn't know i could buy ammo from drebin till act 4 

[Smooth Groove]

All MGSs took me 10/12 hours first time around.


8/9 hours for the next playthroughs.

MGS4 is the first MGS where it actually took me 20 hours to beat. I guess some people like to explore and make time, me? Man there's a story going on, i'm playing a role, so if my goal is to go from A to B i go from A to B, i don't stop for 30 minutes in A to watch the birds take a shit before i move to B.

MGS4 was the shortest MGS on my first playthrough.  My final save is just over 16 hours, and I easily wasted an hour being confused at the beginning of Act 3, and probably another half hour or so on a portion of Act 4 where I couldn't locate the door I needed to go through.

Yeah, it feels really short, especially compared to MGS3.  I just finished Act 3 this morning and in terms of gameplay, it feels like 1/4 of MGS3.