Maybe I'm blind to politics...but what the fuck, people LIKE the 2nd amendment?

[FlameOfCallandor]

That may beat Am Nintenho for pure nonsense.

Do you see the difference between me keeping an automatic in my closet and me yelling a fire in a theater that causes a stampede that kills people?

[Phoenix Dark]

In a February interview with WJLA's Leon Harris, Obama didn't dispute the characterization that he believes the D.C. gun law is constitutional. Asked how he reconciled past statements about the rights of gun owners and his "support [for] the D.C. handgun ban," Obama straddled the issue.

"I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally," he said. "And a lot of people — law-abiding citizens — use it for hunting, for sportsmanship and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets, we are going to trace more effectively how these guns are ending up on the streets, to unscrupulous gun dealers, who oftentimes are selling to straw purchasers. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. Those are all approaches that I think the average gun owner would actually support.

"The problem is that we’ve got a position, oftentimes by the NRA, that says any regulation whatsoever is the camel’s nose under the tent. And that, I think, is not where the American people are at. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measures that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11371.html

[FlameOfCallandor]

Obama sure chose a convenient time to flip on the issue. 

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't really want to get into this, but FoC do you believe that convicted felons should be able to legally own guns?

I'm mixed. On one hand I think convicted felons that serve their time shouldn't be discriminated against. But on the other hand I know why its a bad idea.

But this is very different from an ordinary citizen being able to own something.

Not when discussing the validity of 'reasonable restraints'

[FlameOfCallandor]

I was referring to the actual sentence, not the sentiment behind it.

Yes, I believe that you should be held responsible for any outcome of yelling fire in a crowded theater, just like I believe you should be held responsible for anything that happens with a personal fire arm.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Not when discussing the validity of 'reasonable restraints'

The law in question was an outright ban on handguns in washington D.C.

Not a ban for just a few people.

[Phoenix Dark]

While I'm tired of Obama's nuanced justifications for his flip flops, I see his point. He comes from a state that suffered from lots of city crime. It's not hard to understand why his views on the subject are more complex.

The National Rifle Association plans to spend upwards of $40 million on a campaign to highlight Obama's record and define him as a supporter of "Chicago-style gun control," said the NRA’s chief lobbyist, Chris W. Cox.

“Barack Obama’s views on gun rights, despite what he might say on Iowa or Montana, are very radical,” Cox said. "Never before have we had a presidential candidate who has been so open and clear on his position on self defense with a firearm in your own home."

Perfect example of scare politics aimed at rural voters.

[AdmiralViscen]

Not when discussing the validity of 'reasonable restraints'

The law in question was an outright ban on handguns in washington D.C.

Not a ban for just a few people.

Yea and the law isn't on the books anymore and both candidates and the current president agree with the decision, so what do you want?

[xnikki118x]

James and I were at a party once when this crazy fucking kid straight out of a tour in Iraq (I think, maybe Afghanistan) was waving around his loaded, unlocked assault rifle-type-gun and passing it around to people. It was scary.

We also have four guns in my house. My dad hunts. He'd never wave a gun around like that.

It's all about responsible ownership.

[Fresh Prince]

As a country that has banned gun ownership I don't know why you'd get rid of the Second Ammendment, I mean it basically leaves guns in the hands of criminals, who in the state I live had better guns than the police.

Get a mental test, a responsible ownership test, have you gun properly secured, restrict to semi-automatic weapons so you can sport, hunt or protect your home and family. 

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Most gun owners are responsible with them.  My Dad owns three guns and the only time he fires them is at rabbits if they try to eat some of the vegetables we grow.  For the most part growing up, guns were around the house.  My sister and I never got into them and started shooting because it is pretty obvious to tell that a gun is not a toy.  I actually think I fired a revolver when I was 9 or 10.  Yet I never went around and shot people or had the urge to get the gun out and play with it because I'm not an idiot.  It is why I have little sympathy for people who "discover and play" with guns.  If you're older than 6 or 7, there is no excuse other than a low IQ.

I do think that there should be tough measures against those who shouldn't own them.  I don't know the extent of the gun control set in place but I am honestly not worried about dying from a firearm.

[Positive Touch]

the only time he fires them is at rabbits if they try to eat some of the vegetables we grow

 :'( :'( :'(

[BobbyRobby]

maybe the the most important thing to consider is that the police have no obligation to protect individual citizens.  if someone has broken into your house with a gun, they don't have to respond to your 911 call, nor would you have any recourse against the police force.  disarming citizens under such conditions is outrageous.

If you want to understand American resistance to gun control, this pretty much sums it up.

you're right, some snarky nerd satirizing a small minority of gun-owners really sums it up. 

[etiolate]

If someone wants to kill me, they'll kill me. If they plan to break into my house, they'll find a way to do it. A gun just supplies a sense of power when you really are powerless.

[Mandark]

BobbyRobby:  For real though, how many discussions of the Second Amendment don't veer into home invasion and/or vigilante fantasy scenarios like oh I don't know, the one you just posted?

[Eric P]

Yeah, I don't see how people can look at current events and say a poorly-armed militia is powerless against the US military.

yes.

this.

[FlameOfCallandor]

If someone wants to kill me, they'll kill me. If they plan to break into my house, they'll find a way to do it. A gun just supplies a sense of power when you really are powerless.

What? If you have a gun you shoot them. How is that powerless?

[Kestastrophe]

BobbyRobby:  For real though, how many discussions of the Second Amendment don't veer into home invasion and/or vigilante fantasy scenarios like oh I don't know, the one you just posted?

Yes, but there is some evidence that suggests that criminal activity is inversely correlated with gun ownership, more specifically concealed carry gun ownership.

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
Kennesaw, Georgia

Gun law

On May 1, 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-1a] requiring every head of household to maintain a firearm together with ammunition.

[edit]Reports of resulting burglary rate statistics
Gary Kleck, a criminologist and gun-control critic attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law.[3] Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime.


Current statistics indicate that Kennesaw's crime rate[6] is lower compared to surrounding cities like Marietta[7], Smyrna[8], Alpharetta[9], or Atlanta[10].

10 Best Towns for Families
The City of Kennesaw was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation's "10 Best Towns for Families." The article appears in the magazine's August 2007 edition. The publication announced the results of its search to identify the best communities across the country that combine big-city opportunities with suburban charm, a blend of affordable housing, good jobs, top-rated schools, wide-open spaces and a lot less stress.

b-b-b-but guns kill..

[Ganhyun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
Kennesaw, Georgia

Gun law

On May 1, 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-1a] requiring every head of household to maintain a firearm together with ammunition.

[edit]Reports of resulting burglary rate statistics
Gary Kleck, a criminologist and gun-control critic attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law.[3] Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime.


Current statistics indicate that Kennesaw's crime rate[6] is lower compared to surrounding cities like Marietta[7], Smyrna[8], Alpharetta[9], or Atlanta[10].

10 Best Towns for Families
The City of Kennesaw was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation's "10 Best Towns for Families." The article appears in the magazine's August 2007 edition. The publication announced the results of its search to identify the best communities across the country that combine big-city opportunities with suburban charm, a blend of affordable housing, good jobs, top-rated schools, wide-open spaces and a lot less stress.

b-b-b-but guns kill..

Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Some just happen to use guns.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Some use box cutters. We should ban box cutters.

[AdmiralViscen]

Some guy at a local supermarket stabbed a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow with a box cutter last week because they got in an argument.

[Mupepe]

perfect deterrent from being robbed...

do what I do, place some shotgun shells and .45 caliber shells on your window sills so if someone wants to try to get in through your window, that's the first thing they see

[brawndolicious]

Banning guns is unrealistic.

There are so many hot weapons that it would be impossible to try to get them all.  Chances are that the weapons are not going to land in the hands of conscientious citizens but with people who caused the guns to be banned in the first place.  Besides, it would take a massive and expensive effort to try to get rid of them all and even then, it wouldn't happen.

Gun bans work better in European and Japanese country because they were enforced shortly after World War II.  There was greater benefit to taking away weapons in those countries because it was best not to arm Soviet funded operations.  Let us not forget The Troubles in Northern Ireland, which caused thousands of deaths in such a small area.  So even gun bans then have proven to be rather ineffective.

At the same time, the 2nd amendment is outdated.  A militia would get mowed down in minutes.  The US government is so far ahead of disorganized shack losers in Montana that if none of them could probably get a shot off without having 50 bullets in them a split second before they pull their trigger.

First, the guns would be phased out over the next 30 years.  The most common handgun in LA murders is a gun so cheap and disposable that a gun magazine's tests showed that it would blow up after a couple hundred shots.  Murderers don't want to keep their guns.

Second, what kind of bullshit is that?  Gun crime is a lot rarer in Europe and Asia.  There were thousands of gun deaths in Ireleand over many decades while in the last 40 years, there were a half million in the US.

And yeah, the 2nd amendment is outdated.  It's worthless so the logical thing to do is repeal it.  Not say "WEL WATEVER I THINK SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUNS ARE PRETTY COOL TOO!".  It might not get repealled within our lifetiemes, but if you care about guns (pro or con) the moral thing to do would be to either take the side of those in favor of banning guns or those in favor of a different law for the right to a gun in self-defense.

The home invasion argument is also a load of prick-compensation.  It is 5 times more likley for somebody to get killed by a gun accident (cleaning it or a child plays with it or whatever) from a gun being in the home than than it is for that gun to be used against a criminal.  What's the point of a constitutional guarantee of a right when it's not statistically safe enough for people to practice it?

As a country that has banned gun ownership I don't know why you'd get rid of the Second Ammendment, I mean it basically leaves guns in the hands of criminals, who in the state I live had better guns than the police.
Get a mental test, a responsible ownership test, have you gun properly secured, restrict to semi-automatic weapons so you can sport, hunt or protect your home and family. 

That's logical.  I'm honestly not as concerned about my chances of getting shot as I am about how useless it is to have the second amendment.

[AdmiralViscen]

"statistically safe"



I guess you shouldn't be allowed to own a car until you're 25

[Mandark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
Kennesaw, Georgia

I shouldn't need to point this out, cause it's mentioned in the part of the Wikipedia entry that you deleted before quoting.  Seriously.

[brawndolicious]

"statistically safe"

I guess you shouldn't be allowed to own a car until you're 25

cars have a use...

[BobbyRobby]

you can't just look at statistics and make decisions for the whole populace.  it's stupid, and totally disregards the notion of individual freedom.  what about pools?  they don't even keep you safe, nor have they saved any lives.  should people be allowed to weigh the odds of their child wandering in and drowning against their own personal pleasure?

BobbyRobby:  For real though, how many discussions of the Second Amendment don't veer into home invasion and/or vigilante fantasy scenarios like oh I don't know, the one you just posted?

how is my scenario a fantasy? are you implying people don't break into homes, or that it doesn't happen enough to be relevant?  i don't own a gun, nor do I fantasize about killing intruders despite having had my house broken into. still, i can understand one's desire to own one if they lived in a dangerous neighborhood, in order to protect their family.  you can't typecast everyone who wants to own a gun, or defends the right to own one as a gun nut.  it's like saying everyone who owns a fire extinguisher is a paranoid neurotic.

[AdmiralViscen]

"statistically safe"

I guess you shouldn't be allowed to own a car until you're 25

cars have a use...

So do guns, even if just recreational.

The point is that "x% of people are stupid" isn't grounds to remove a Constitutional right. Sounds like grounds for requiring a safety course with a gun purchase.

[Mandark]

Chill, Bobby.

I'm not calling every gun owner (or a majority, or even a large minority) as a nut.  But violent machismo is pretty important to the NRA-centered type of pro-gun activism we have in the US right now.

Plus I can't help but needle people who almost always declare how super-responsible all gun owners are as if we're a nation of Atticus Finches.  As a group 2nd Amendment boosters are about two notches less sensitive than furries.

[BobbyRobby]

i just don't see the need to group people together who support the second amendment.  it is not a radical stance.  with any issue it's likely the most passionate people either for or opposed will be irrational. 

[Eric P]

i'm a supporter of guns and gun owner's rights but i do not, nor have i ever owned a gun.












legally.

[FlameOfCallandor]

  News ALert

Nintenho clears up age old gun debate.

And yeah, the 2nd amendment is outdated.  It's worthless so the logical thing to do is repeal it

[FlameOfCallandor]

That's logical.  I'm honestly not as concerned about my chances of getting shot as I am about how useless it is to have the second amendment.

Maybe you think it's useless but guess what. You arent everyone in the country.

[APF]

ACTIVISTS ARE SENSITIVE

[brawndolicious]

cars have a use...

So do guns, even if just recreational.
The point is that "x% of people are stupid" isn't grounds to remove a Constitutional right. Sounds like grounds for requiring a safety course with a gun purchase.

I meant that cars are necessary for society to function...

The only thing that guns are designed for is for killing.  Allowing private citizens to have a killing tool isn't a great idea but I don't mind if they get it registered (LOL).  I'm happy with only handguns being banned since those are used in 99.9% of gun crimes and only long guns being allowed.  The best guns for hunting and home defense are shotguns and rifles anyways.

That's logical.  I'm honestly not as concerned about my chances of getting shot as I am about how useless it is to have the second amendment.

Maybe you think it's useless but guess what. You arent everyone in the country.

I think most people agree that a law that has to do with militias is useless.  Considering that the American BAR association and the federal courts unanimously agree that the second amendment doesn't guarantee the right for the private citizen to own arms, there is really no one that that law should affect today so it should repealed and replaced with some gun law that has actual restrictions (there are currently no federal firearm restrictions).

Even if you think gun ownership is a good thing, the second amendment has nothing to do with the modern gun owners.  Except for the dipshits who jack off with their cold, dead hands.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I meant that cars are necessary for society to function...

Because we were all cavemen until Henry Ford came along.

The only thing that guns are designed for is for killing.  Allowing private citizens to have a killing tool isn't a great idea but I don't mind if they get it registered (LOL). 

Gun's are a tool just like knives, chainsaws, lawnmowers (all dangerous if used wrong). Should we have those reregistered also? If so then why stop there? Why not just register very action everyone does.

Even if you think gun ownership is a good thing, the second amendment has nothing to do with the modern gun owners.  Except for the dipshits who jack off with their cold, dead hands.

What? The supreme court pretty much cleared it up dude.

[brawndolicious]

Because we were all cavemen until Henry Ford came along.

this is one of the those of posts that make people glad you're lepered.

Gun's are a tool just like knives, chainsaws, lawnmowers (all dangerous if used wrong). Should we have those reregistered also? If so then why stop there? Why not just register very action everyone does.

it's very rare that those will cause an injury..and even more rare that they'll cause somebody's death.  do you see where I'm going with this?

What? The supreme court pretty much cleared it up dude.

cleared what up?  pretty much?

[captainbiotch]

I bought a new gun   



xd subcompact 9mm

F U pussies.  It fits right in my pocket   

[AdmiralViscen]

Gun's are a tool just like knives, chainsaws, lawnmowers (all dangerous if used wrong). Should we have those reregistered also? If so then why stop there? Why not just register very action everyone does.

it's very rare that those will cause an injury..and even more rare that they'll cause somebody's death.  do you see where I'm going with this?

That they're exactly like guns?

I think you underestimate exactly how many guns are in this country.

[Candyflip]

I bought a new gun   

(Image removed from quote.)

xd subcompact 9mm

F U pussies.  It fits right in my pocket  

[FlameOfCallandor]

How much was it? 

[captainbiotch]

5 hundo.  the xd has a lot of great safety features, points very well, and is well built for the price.  comes with a 10 round mag for concealed carry and a 16 round extended mag for the range

got 5 boxes of ammo as well.  target shooting tomorrow 

[brawndolicious]

That they're exactly like guns?
I think you underestimate exactly how many guns are in this country.

There's a ton of guns.  The problem, however, is handguns and the people who don't register their guns.  And don't try to say that a lawnmower is like a gun.