Author Topic: Job hunting sucks.  (Read 7816 times)

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bork

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Job hunting sucks.
« on: August 28, 2008, 05:38:03 AM »
Just got turned down by yet another company for  "lack of experience."  I'm scratching my head over this when the stupid recruiting website has it listed under "no experience required."

For those of you who have been unemployed, what did you do to get your mind off of things?  It's been about a month now and I have unfortunately been turned down by the few interviews I have gone to (again for lack of experience, and again all of these were listed as entry-level jobs on the websites) or found the companies to be dishonest (one outright lied to me, the other is a scam operation).  One company even asked me why I bothered applying when they only hire people with at least five years' worth of experience.  Uh, because it says "NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY," perhaps?   ::)  Guess I shouldn't blame the companies but the distinguished mentally-challenged sites these jobs are being listed on.

Maybe it's time to go back to the States and/or go back to school.   Hate where I'm living (hickville, Japan with the in-laws), hate the huge amount of "nothing" that is my daily life, and hate shelling out tons of cash to go all the way to Tokyo for interviews that then inform me I don't have the experience.
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Candyflip

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 06:11:28 AM »
You're not alone. I wouldn't complain if half the jobs that state this requirement actually needed an employee with experience. Brainless shit such as answering phones/data entry/security/basic bookkeeping does not require much more prowess than picking your nose, yet apparently it takes 2-5 years of practice in order to perform these tasks adequately enough to get paid a measly 12.50 an hour. I've never really had the problem of the job being incorrectly listed though. That's just bad luck :(

I'm honestly considering just enlisting in the Air Force and going to school part time during those 4 years. Beats paying out of my pocket for tuition. Plus, I wouldn't have to worry about subsisting on some horrible salary for a job that I will probably never get anyway
ffs

The Sceneman

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 06:44:36 AM »
Yeah I made a thread like this recently. Job hunting is pretty sucky. My current contract ends next week so Its back on the pile for me
#1

Beardo

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 08:43:26 AM »
Right out of college I applied for a job that paid $14 an hour. I was more than qualified because it was an assistant job and a job that I had before with a different company. The homo actually had the nerve to tell me I need to take a free internship somewhere before I have the experience necessary. WTF why did you bring my ass in for an interview if you think i dont have enough experience. And how much fucking experience do you need for $14 an hour.




Eric P

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 08:47:52 AM »
i absolutely despise job hunting.

esp when you're trying to find something else to do for a job than what you've been doing.

but my worst was when i was unemployed for 6 months basically living in a squat

that ruled.

Tonya

Cormacaroni

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 09:11:24 AM »
All these guys are doing by bringing you in is meeting quotas. They have to interview a certain number of people, in the right demographics, before they can give the job to their buddy in the other department anyway.
vjj

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 10:33:41 AM »
I'll be job hunting tomorrow  :'(

Kestastrophe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 10:56:56 AM »
Job hunting does suck OP, and yes it is nearly impossible to land a job with no experience despite the fact that job listings say "no experience". I received my Master's back in December 2006 at the tender age of 23, landed an internship in my first interview that lasted until April of 2007, and haven;t been employed since. I've had close to 40 interviews since then and I've gone through every temp agency I could find and still no luck.

Also, I would recommend forgoing the temp agencies. I have been in contact with 5-7 different agencies over the last year and they haven't been able to get me a single interview. It is much easier to get the interview yourself or through someone you know (which is my problem, since I never networked in school).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 10:59:15 AM by Kestastrophe »
jon

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 11:07:59 AM »
All these guys are doing by bringing you in is meeting quotas. They have to interview a certain number of people, in the right demographics, before they can give the job to their buddy in the other department anyway.

this
duc

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 01:03:58 PM »
My wife and I have decided to file for a visa for her to go to the States.  That process should take about 4-6 months.  If I can't find anything here by then, we are outta here, I'm going back to school (looking at a career in IT), and she will learn English.  Then maybe we will come back here after that since jobs for that field seem to be in abundance.
ど助平

MrAngryFace

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 01:05:39 PM »
When I moved to the Seattle area after my first two years of college I was jobless and living with friends for three months. I passed the time with A LOT of BF1942 before I ended up getting the job. Back then I didnt have the work ethic I do now, and that is probably what allowed me to get entirely lost in bf1942 for THREE MONTHS. Nowadays if I was unemployed i'd probably be going as nuts as you.
o_0

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 01:13:03 PM »
I'm going to die I think.  I've never really had to look for a job.  I always got really lucky, especially with this one.  I've never felt the stress of unemployment and it's already pretty depressing and I'm not even unemployed for 4 more hours.  Fuck.

MrAngryFace

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 01:13:51 PM »
If for some reason I was looking for a job again and I couldnt find something within three months id get retail management as short term since ive got the experience and it pays 'decent' then after a year of that i'd start the job hunt again, while employed
o_0

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 01:24:14 PM »
When I moved to the Seattle area after my first two years of college I was jobless and living with friends for three months. I passed the time with A LOT of BF1942 before I ended up getting the job. Back then I didnt have the work ethic I do now, and that is probably what allowed me to get entirely lost in bf1942 for THREE MONTHS. Nowadays if I was unemployed i'd probably be going as nuts as you.

I just feel lucky that both here and back home, I have a place to go and live rent-free, even have most of my food bills footed to boot.  Haven't played too many games though; this shit makes me worry endlessly.  I gotta get over it.  But now I have stuff to do to get ready to (likely) move back home, so I'll at least be occupied doing other stuff in the mean time.

I'm going to die I think.  I've never really had to look for a job.  I always got really lucky, especially with this one.  I've never felt the stress of unemployment and it's already pretty depressing and I'm not even unemployed for 4 more hours.  Fuck.

Exact same thing with me.  This has all been new; back when I finished university, I kind of felt the same way, but at the time I still had my old retail job and I was waiting to see if I got the job I just finished up last month.
ど助平

MrAngryFace

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2008, 01:26:36 PM »
When I moved to the Seattle area after my first two years of college I was jobless and living with friends for three months. I passed the time with A LOT of BF1942 before I ended up getting the job. Back then I didnt have the work ethic I do now, and that is probably what allowed me to get entirely lost in bf1942 for THREE MONTHS. Nowadays if I was unemployed i'd probably be going as nuts as you.

I just feel lucky that both here and back home, I have a place to go and live rent-free, even have most of my food bills footed to boot.  Haven't played too many games though; this shit makes me worry endlessly.  I gotta get over it.  But now I have stuff to do to get ready to (likely) move back home, so I'll at least be occupied doing other stuff in the mean time.

I'm going to die I think.  I've never really had to look for a job.  I always got really lucky, especially with this one.  I've never felt the stress of unemployment and it's already pretty depressing and I'm not even unemployed for 4 more hours.  Fuck.

Exact same thing with me.  This has all been new; back when I finished university, I kind of felt the same way, but at the time I still had my old retail job and I was waiting to see if I got the job I just finished up last month.


I think with BF1942 it was easier cause its clear a person can get wrapped up in the rivalry and channel a lot of the jobless angst into pegging a guy with a well placed shot from your no4 rifle.
o_0

huckleberry

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 01:31:55 PM »
You guys need to stop talking all this scary shit!  I hate my job so much I just fantasize all day about punching my boss and walking out the door.  I will never be able to do that if you guys keep scaring the shit out of me with this talk about how hard it is to get a job!!



 :'(
wub

Akala

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 01:33:03 PM »
I'm going to die I think.  I've never really had to look for a job.  I always got really lucky, especially with this one.  I've never felt the stress of unemployment and it's already pretty depressing and I'm not even unemployed for 4 more hours.  Fuck.

that sucks mups.  :dizzy gl

Lyte, what were you doing before? Are you trying to get back in with that? I don't know how different things are over there, but your waifu/her fam couldn't hook you up in any way?

Kestastrophe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 01:33:57 PM »
Brainless shit such as answering phones/data entry/security/basic bookkeeping does not require much more prowess than picking your nose, yet apparently it takes 2-5 years of practice in order to perform these tasks adequately enough to get paid a measly 12.50 an hour.

What I want to know is how uneducated people get these jobs to begin with. I see alot of accounting jobs posted that only require a high school education and a few years experience, but who the hell fits that bill? I have interviewed for several bookkeeping positions and I know that I have been passed over for someone else that doesn't have a degree, let alone a fucking Master's degree. 
jon

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 01:34:11 PM »
I'm going to die I think.  I've never really had to look for a job.  I always got really lucky, especially with this one.  I've never felt the stress of unemployment and it's already pretty depressing and I'm not even unemployed for 4 more hours.  Fuck.

Exact same thing with me.  This has all been new; back when I finished university, I kind of felt the same way, but at the time I still had my old retail job and I was waiting to see if I got the job I just finished up last month.

Yeah, that's how I was before this job.  I was working some shit jobs, but I had income and I was making it.  I've never actually been on a job junt.  The closest I came was spending two hours searching and getting two job offers that day.  

But now I'm scared because I've mostly got office management and administrative experience but that sector seems to be winding down a lot.  I fear I'm going to get stuck in a shit job with shit pay again hating my life even more.  

I don't know even know how I should go about this.  Should I take the first halfway "decent" (lol) job that I get offered or should I hold out?  But what if I don't find an actual good job soon?  How long is too long?  Fuck.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 01:40:12 PM »
getting a good job is rarely about the requirements or the resume. it's about how well you sell yourself and your potential, and, yes, who you know. a guy with little experience can come in and get a great job if a) he/she researches the position well; b) discusses how he/she is a good fit for the job; and c) comes with a recommendation by someone already trusted by the hiring manager.

ALWAYS network, network, network. almost EVERY position gets filled by someone recommended into the role by a person trusted by the hiring manager. the worst thing you can do to your career is to hole up in the role and not constantly be making useful "friends" in the biz that you can lean on when the shit goes down -- and who trust that they can do the same with you. your career is never independent unless you really REALLY love stress. you need the folks around you to sustain your career.

it will take quite a while for you to get even a mediocre job by going into interviews "cold". do what maf says: take a retail job, build those connections, and then leave it when you've set up things in your favor. that means: a) pump friends/family to look for opportunities for you, b) start really researching roles in the industry that you want to do, and c) develop a fully-fleshed career path narrative that you can use to sell yourself in interviews.

one's first real job hunt, along with one's first real relationship, one's first firing/layoff, and one's first brush with death, are the things that turn you from an foc-like manchild into a real, nuanced adult -- and force you to recognize how much you depend on those around you, no matter how smart or talented you think you are.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 01:46:38 PM by Professor Prole »
duc

Trent Dole

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2008, 01:40:30 PM »
I've been slacking on this front myself. Since the one capable manager I get along with is leaving the current place this Tuesday I ought to get crackin'. Being hardly able to breathe for the last week hasn't exactly helped my motivation, but it is most certainly past time to find new digs. Also I think my current boss wants to sack me, I dunno if I'd just laugh in his face or cuss him out.  :lol
Hi

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 01:48:13 PM »
one's first real job hunt, along with one's first real relationship, one's first firing/layoff, and one's first brush with death, are the things that turn you from an foc-like manchild into a real, nuanced adult.
seems like tomorrow will complete my transformation into an adult!

if I don't blow my brains out drunk as shit tonight (brush with death) thanks to the layoffs, I'll go on my first job hunt tomorrow.

I :rock

Kestastrophe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2008, 01:53:56 PM »
Prole is right, unfortunately.
jon

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2008, 01:59:49 PM »
Prole is correct.  A lot of times, it is all a big circle jerk and if you're not in the jerk, you will find it very hard.  It is how guys with a 2.5 GPA can find a job before graduating and someone with a 3.8 will struggle.  Reason?  Networking.  Of course, there is more behind it than just the GPA.
🍆🍆

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2008, 02:01:49 PM »
it's pretty naively american to think that just being academically/intellectually gifted and studious will plop you into a great job.
duc

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2008, 02:03:06 PM »
Prole!  :bow2  Unfortunately in my case, I don't know anyone in the recruiting biz that I could have gotten a good recommendation from.  I did have a few people in the gaming industry (amazingly people I initially "met" on the internet!  :o)  ask me if I was interested in some jobs, but I wasn't qualified for them.  That was also due to a lack of Japanese skills.  I have been looking at these interviews as experience, since I really have had no interview experience before this.

I guess if my contract ending counts as a "layoff," I am meeting all of your qualifications to become a real adult.   :lol



Lyte, what were you doing before? Are you trying to get back in with that? I don't know how different things are over there, but your waifu/her fam couldn't hook you up in any way?

Teaching English on the JET program.  It's the "creme de la creme" of English teaching jobs here and is tough to get into.  But there is a limit; most boards of education will only let you recontract twice (so up to three years) and some will let you go for a fourth and/or fifth year.  My area was three years only.  As much as I enjoyed my job (especially in the last two years), it's not something I would have wanted to make a career out of anyway.  I don't think teaching is for me.  I guess za waifusu family could let me work in their garden and rice fields for some cash, and live in their house for eternity.  Yeah.  That...sounds...fu-UDUHFUFHUDSFHOFOIDFHOD OFIFHOSAEUIFHEFOHFHASDOFHASDFOS  :maf :maf :maf :punch :punch :punch :punch :gun :gun :gun :dizzy  

It has been suckin' hard out here.  Ah the stories I could post.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 02:05:16 PM by lyte edge »
ど助平

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2008, 02:05:18 PM »
you kinda have yer answer there, lyte: start cranking on those Japanese skills! language skills are a huge plus in ANY job situation, anyhow.

duc

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2008, 02:06:41 PM »
you kinda have yer answer there, lyte: start cranking on those Japanese skills! language skills are a huge plus in ANY job situation, anyhow.



Yes, I am going to.  Being married to a Japanese has already helped immensely in that regard.  I sucked at Japanese in school but did hang in there for the entire four years offered.
ど助平

Brehvolution

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2008, 02:11:18 PM »
Get Rosetta Stone software. Their commercials say it really works.
©ZH

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2008, 02:16:00 PM »
Get Rosetta Stone software. Their commercials say it really works.

I think I'm past that.    :)  I can communicate with my wife and her family fine (they don't speak English); my problem is more with a lack of vocabulary words and horrible kanji-reading skills.  That's stuff I can learn on my own; I have the grammar down.
ど助平

Tundra

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2008, 02:27:37 PM »
Seems i am lucky here... Today i quit my job, i will go to another company with (hopefully) nicer people around, and 750 Euros more salary...

What i wanted to tell is another story, though...
A few days ago, i was the interviewer for some young guy who wants to do an apprenticeship in my company, and since this was the first time for me, it was quite interesting seeing this whole mess from the other perspective. Usually when i go to a job interview (i rarely did, i got most of my programmers jobs through network, or got headhunted), i am very nervous myself, so i said to myself that i should be treating that young fellow with respect.

Well, to make a long story short, he was a complete idiot. He lied about every single thing in his resume (he wrote something like "have experience in C++, Php, HTML and have used Linux, BSD and ZETA", which is something i havent heard of before), and i guess he didn't expect somebody being on the interview who knows about such things, since he applied as a media designer.
He couldn't even write a loop or if clause in any of the languages he wrote about. He wasn't even able to tell me how to bold a sentence in html in the simple way (no css or stuff like that).

in the end i was almost upset how much he was lying in his resume, and sent him home  :D

poo

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2008, 02:29:30 PM »
dude.  even i can bold in HTML!

Would you have given me the job???

Tundra

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2008, 02:41:01 PM »
dude.  even i can bold in HTML!

Would you have given me the job???

Well, thats the point. You know he was "just" applying for an apprenticeship, not a full job. So he is supposed to learn those things at my company, and after three years he would have some certificate as a Media Designer or "Fach Informatiker" (kind of a specialist at a part of computer science), both of these things can be learned at my company. He is not supposed to be an expert of these.

He just wanted to boast, and got caught lying, so we kicked him. Nobody wants a liar...

So, if you were able to accomplish those things you wrote about in your resume, and showed some real interest at one of the things that are done at this kind of company (web design, flash, server programming, content management systems),  you would probably get this apprenticeship...
poo

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2008, 02:42:25 PM »
Ok.  PM your company name and stuff and I'll be on my way

Tundra

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2008, 02:52:19 PM »
Ok.  PM your company name and stuff and I'll be on my way

to Germany?

btw: i never get bored looking at your current avatar...
poo

Eric P

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2008, 02:53:55 PM »
this thread coupled with the recent behavior of management at my company is just soul crushing.

this job has devolved into a dead end (it wasn't a year ago)

attempts to move within the company are being blocked by my management (management who started, i should point out about a year ago)

i can't seem to even get interviews w/ my current resume/cover letter combo

interviews i do get go nowhere even though i prove myself to be interested, competent and willing to work hard.

this whole situation is just fucking depressing beyond belief.  I feel like i am rotting here and there is no escape but I know that this job is killing me.

I'm already one one pill due to the stress and frustration of this place.

For example.  We're now (as of Sept 1st) non-exempt (ie, Hourly employees with overtime having to be approved in advance and our supervisor is already a known incompetent sociopath).  No one in my department is happy and attempts to hold meetings with management result in our agendas (which we were forced to submit in advance) being blocked.

This is probably the worst job situation I have ever had the misfortune of experiencing.

Tonya

Kestastrophe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2008, 03:18:43 PM »
it's pretty naively american to think that just being academically/intellectually gifted and studious will plop you into a great job.
Were you directing that at me? If so, I never said that I was expecting a great job for my degree, just a job. And I don't think it's naive to assume hiring managers to be at least somewhat objective, especially given job requirements.
jon

MrAngryFace

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2008, 03:45:11 PM »
I dont think anyone should ever just EXPECT a job. Job hunting sucks, no matter how many papers you have.
o_0

Mandark

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2008, 03:54:01 PM »
And I don't think it's naive to assume hiring managers to be at least somewhat objective, especially given job requirements.

It's not so much an objectivity issue as a lack of information one.

In terms of knowing what sort of coworker someone will be, actual experience dealing with them is a billion times more informative than resumes, letters of introduction, interviews, etc.

If a manager knows they can hire someone who has a good work ethic, some common sense, and decent interpersonal skills then why risk hiring an unknown commodity?

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2008, 04:04:17 PM »
ahahaha...haha...hahaha... :(

I was just asked if I wanted to extend my stay until tomorrow to help train the people who didn't get the axe.  I wanted to tell them "fuck you!  you fucking fired me!"

But that's gas for a whole month/groceries for a month/my light bill/my insurance

I'd feel really dumb if I went broke and had said no.

So like the pussy I am, I said sure.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2008, 04:14:49 PM »
it's pretty naively american to think that just being academically/intellectually gifted and studious will plop you into a great job.
Were you directing that at me? If so, I never said that I was expecting a great job for my degree, just a job. And I don't think it's naive to assume hiring managers to be at least somewhat objective, especially given job requirements.

it wasn't directed at you. also, what mandark said. a candidate that can be vouched for by a fellow professional you trust trumps any and all paper candidates.
duc

Fresh Prince

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2008, 04:31:58 PM »
After taking Preole's advice I got the job I wanted! Doing the graduate thing (and I suppose by extension entry level jobs) what you have is a lot of people with similar skills and experience. I think personality sells you quite a lot.   
888

Brehvolution

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2008, 04:37:10 PM »
ummm... what is not to like about working the rice patty?
©ZH

Mupepe

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2008, 04:38:12 PM »
Let me work your rice patty :hyper

Rman

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2008, 10:17:09 PM »
Good luck, lyte edge.  Not finding a job and going from interview to interview can be very frustrating.  Try keeping your regular routine, during this time, too, like exercising, having fun, spending time with friends and family.  That helps.  I remember that exercise was a great reliever of the day's troubles.

Beardo

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2008, 11:58:56 PM »
I have a job interview tomorrow with a small start up. Over the phone the guy sounded enthusiastic and was genuine impressed with my portfolio. He even thought that I was over qualified for the job, until I told him what I was currently doing.

Cross your fingers for me.

Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2008, 12:06:38 AM »
what are you doing currently?
Crm

Beardo

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2008, 12:08:53 AM »
I dont want to say. But it may or may not involve some sort of media/graphics/design/web.  :shh

ferrarimanf355

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2008, 12:09:33 AM »
I've been looking for a job since graduating last May. I've only had three interviews.  :'(

I may have a good lead, though.  :-*
500

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2008, 12:24:11 AM »
it's pretty naively american to think that just being academically/intellectually gifted and studious will plop you into a great job.

I've found that every job I've had has had NOTHING to do with my academic history. Most of the jobs I've been successful in are from getting along well with the people I work/interview with.

But Prole is right, once you get into a position and know people you're pretty much guaranteed of having places to go. Knowing people and having those people trust/believe in you is more important than anything.
itm

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2008, 12:34:00 AM »
lyte -

I'm not going to sugar-coat this because that won't help. If you had 4 years of Japanese, and have been here for 3 years plus, with a Japanese wife and family, and you still can't list serious Japanese skills on your resume, you've been wasting your time. That's all there is to it. You can acquire all the Japanese language skills you'll ever need in a year if you crank away at it. You've had 7 and counting. Times a' wastin' dude.

On the other hand, if you don't want to do something with Japanese, don't waste any time on studying Japanese! It's not a language you can acquire casually. Any time spent poring over kanji is time that you could spend learning to code, for example. I see so many foreigners half-ass it with Japanese. Learning a bit of it (i.e. to the level at which most Japanese people speak English) is basically useless.
vjj

Akala

  • Easy Victor
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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2008, 12:40:54 AM »
Most of the Jet set I know (internet know, not real know...) became fairly fluent in the time they spent there. It seems like it'd be relatively easy to get a businessish job if you were fluent in both. Knowing bits, maybe you can fake it. Apply at UK/US firms?


bork

  • おっぱいは命、尻は故郷
  • Global Moderator
Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2008, 01:03:19 AM »
lyte -

I'm not going to sugar-coat this because that won't help. If you had 4 years of Japanese, and have been here for 3 years plus, with a Japanese wife and family, and you still can't list serious Japanese skills on your resume, you've been wasting your time. That's all there is to it. You can acquire all the Japanese language skills you'll ever need in a year if you crank away at it. You've had 7 and counting. Times a' wastin' dude.

On the other hand, if you don't want to do something with Japanese, don't waste any time on studying Japanese! It's not a language you can acquire casually. Any time spent poring over kanji is time that you could spend learning to code, for example. I see so many foreigners half-ass it with Japanese. Learning a bit of it (i.e. to the level at which most Japanese people speak English) is basically useless.

No doubt, no doubt.  I'm not making any excuses: I didn't study enough in school.  I was always loaded with classes and other things to do, and even though I loved Japanese class, I didn't spend enough time memorizing.  Back then it was hard for me to stay focused.  I think I have changed now, but I find I learn by doing or being there (in classes) rather than endless memorization/study.  That's the kind of person that I am.  In regards to my language ability, I might be wrong.  I have been told I lack confidence when it comes to Japanese; I think I suck at it, but on the other hand I am getting along and speaking with people in it every day.  At the end of my time on JET, I gave two speeches to both my schools in Japanese too.  Wrote them in hiragana...

I would like to get more fluent in Japanese and this morning I said to my wife that I wanted her to start helping me with kanji.  As a matter of fact I am going to start going through a workbook I bought right now.  I feel that if I can get myself to study this stuff, a year (maybe two!) should be enough to get much, much better.  But at the same time, I want to start a career first.  I am at a crossroads.

Most of the Jet set I know (internet know, not real know...) became fairly fluent in the time they spent there. It seems like it'd be relatively easy to get a businessish job if you were fluent in both. Knowing bits, maybe you can fake it. Apply at UK/US firms?


Sure, when you are immersed in an area with few other foreigners you have to use Japanese all the time.  And if you are studying for the JLPT, it can really help.  I didn't though; my speaking ability HAS gone up but my reading ability is still bad, simply because I chose to spend my time on JET building the relationship with my now-wife and relaxing in my free time; I was under a lot of stress at times at work and just wanted to unwind at home or in my free time.  I would say I SUCKED when I got here; now I'm somewhere between the beginner and conversational levels, speaking ability-wise.  Could I be much better?  Sure, but I definitely did improve and that is without studying.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 01:48:32 AM by lyte edge »
ど助平

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2008, 01:47:30 AM »
Good luck, lyte edge.  Not finding a job and going from interview to interview can be very frustrating.  Try keeping your regular routine, during this time, too, like exercising, having fun, spending time with friends and family.  That helps.  I remember that exercise was a great reliever of the day's troubles.

Thanks man.  I have been getting more exercise (plus the in-laws have FIVE dogs that need to be walked) and it definitely helps.  Although I think hurt myself doing some hip flexor exercises the other night.  Hips were killing me yesterday!  Better today though.


ど助平

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2008, 02:01:33 AM »
Yeah with my AA and AS I never thought I would have the kind of job I have today. It was a combination of drive, experience, and connections.
o_0

Cormacaroni

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2008, 03:27:31 AM »
Indeed. You are at a crossroads. Just don't waste time trying to go down two different routes at once. Either take learning Japanese seriously and commit to a long-term stay here, or retrain back home, I'd say. Confucius say, man try to catch two rabbits end up with none ;)
vjj

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2008, 03:30:54 AM »
Indeed. You are at a crossroads. Just don't waste time trying to go down two different routes at once. Either take learning Japanese seriously and commit to a long-term stay here, or retrain back home, I'd say. Confucius say, man try to catch two rabbits end up with none ;)

Well, the plan would be to go back to school and study IT, then come back and work here if we feel we want to.  I am not sure if I can take staying in this house for a full year jobless, although I could go down the route I really don't want to do, and work part-time at a local eikaiwa while studying.  The thing is, while I really do want to improve my Japanese, I think I want to get started in a career more so than that.  I realize that being fluent can of course lead to something good, but something tells me if I stay here and work part time, I'll just fall into the slump of being too tired to study.  I could also just go back home and study Japanese; I know it sounds weird LEAVING JAPAN to do that, but the environment might be better for me.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 04:06:34 AM by lyte edge »
ど助平

bagofeyes

  • blow me - I deserve it
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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2008, 03:55:20 AM »
I'm getting outta Japan at the end of this year too. Fucking sick of this place, and there's fuck all work available up here. I might go to the states.

Cormacaroni

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  • Senior Member
Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2008, 04:05:36 AM »
Indeed. You are at a crossroads. Just don't waste time trying to go down two different routes at once. Either take learning Japanese seriously and commit to a long-term stay here, or retrain back home, I'd say. Confucius say, man try to catch two rabbits end up with none ;)
Well, the plan would be to go back to school and study IT, then come back and work here if we feel we want to.  I am not sure if I can take staying in this house for a full year jobless, although I could go down the route I really don't want to do, and work part-time at a local eikaiwa while studying.

Tough to study while working a soul-destroying job and living in a crappy situation, but a little cashflow would of course make everything look brighter. The trick is not to let the job slowly become your 'career' though. Eikawa is for 99% of folks, a complete dead end.

edit: fuck i hate nested quotes
vjj

bork

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Re: Job hunting sucks.
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2008, 04:08:54 AM »
Indeed. You are at a crossroads. Just don't waste time trying to go down two different routes at once. Either take learning Japanese seriously and commit to a long-term stay here, or retrain back home, I'd say. Confucius say, man try to catch two rabbits end up with none ;)
Well, the plan would be to go back to school and study IT, then come back and work here if we feel we want to.  I am not sure if I can take staying in this house for a full year jobless, although I could go down the route I really don't want to do, and work part-time at a local eikaiwa while studying.

Tough to study while working a soul-destroying job and living in a crappy situation, but a little cashflow would of course make everything look brighter. The trick is not to let the job slowly become your 'career' though. Eikawa is for 99% of folks, a complete dead end.

edit: fuck i hate nested quotes

Yeah, that's why I don't want to bother.  My heart is just not in it anyway.  Given my situation, staying here means nothing will likely happen.  I need to go back to school either way, and I can do this for free (parents are willing to foot the bill) back home.  I am going out of my mind here in the inaka.

The funny thing is a friend of mine who is JLPT level 2 (or 1, can't remember) went to an intensive Japanese course at a Nagoya university after JET, and said it was largely a waste of time.  His self-study is what really paid off.  But he also didn't stay here and went home, and is now teaching Japanese at a high school.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 04:11:14 AM by lyte edge »
ど助平