Author Topic: What book(s) are you reading?  (Read 844815 times)

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team filler

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2820 on: March 20, 2018, 06:53:50 AM »
reading the original script for dream warriors. it's good, a lot darker. now I want it made into a movie  :-\
*****

EVOL

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2821 on: March 20, 2018, 07:19:18 AM »
I'm reading The Book of Disquiet by Pessoa, and it's a complete slog. It's a frustrating read because the narrator is so pathetic, it's like the reading Notes From the Underground on steroids.

I liked the bit in which the narrator justifies being a virgin by saying that no woman could ever live up to his fantasies.

Snoopycat_

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2822 on: March 20, 2018, 08:25:55 AM »
I was reading Stephen King's The Talisman. Like a lot of people I grew up reading his stuff. Some of it's great, some is pretty bad. The Talisman's one of his better ones. It moves along quickly, there's some interesting characters but best of all it has a strong connection to The Dark Tower series.

desert punk

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2823 on: March 20, 2018, 11:29:18 AM »
I was reading Stephen King's The Talisman. Like a lot of people I grew up reading his stuff. Some of it's great, some is pretty bad. The Talisman's one of his better ones. It moves along quickly, there's some interesting characters but best of all it has a strong connection to The Dark Tower series.

Outside The Dark Tower series, I've never really got into King. Mostly because I'm not really a fan of horror fiction in general. But the last three Tower books gave me kind of a bad taste and stopped me delving into his other works.

I wanted to try out 11/22/63 but for whatever reason I've always put it off. Now that there's a TV adaption, I think I'd rather watch that.

Tasty

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2824 on: March 20, 2018, 12:23:42 PM »
reading the original script for dream warriors. it's good, a lot darker. now I want it made into a movie  :-\

It still came out as a pretty good movie IMO.

Snoopycat_

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2825 on: March 20, 2018, 09:30:40 PM »

Outside The Dark Tower series, I've never really got into King. Mostly because I'm not really a fan of horror fiction in general. But the last three Tower books gave me kind of a bad taste and stopped me delving into his other works.

I wanted to try out 11/22/63 but for whatever reason I've always put it off. Now that there's a TV adaption, I think I'd rather watch that.

You might like The Stand. It's one of his most popular books. It's more thriller than horror and it's a pretty decent post apocalyptic story

chronovore

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2826 on: March 21, 2018, 06:18:18 PM »
FINALLY finished Use of Weapons. I REALLY wish I hadn't spoiled it for myself. NEVER visit the wikipedia article, even if you're having trouble parsing it. Here's a freebie to help you avoid what I wanted to know, without learning what I didn't want foreknowledge of: There are two chapter-streams, one headed by spelling the number: "one, two," and another with Roman numerals, "I, II," etc. One is moving forward in time, the other backward…

Anything else in the wiki will tell you more than you want to know!

reading the original script for dream warriors. it's good, a lot darker. now I want it made into a movie  :-\
Link, please…


I was reading Stephen King's The Talisman. Like a lot of people I grew up reading his stuff. Some of it's great, some is pretty bad. The Talisman's one of his better ones. It moves along quickly, there's some interesting characters but best of all it has a strong connection to The Dark Tower series.

Outside The Dark Tower series, I've never really got into King. Mostly because I'm not really a fan of horror fiction in general. But the last three Tower books gave me kind of a bad taste and stopped me delving into his other works.

I wanted to try out 11/22/63 but for whatever reason I've always put it off. Now that there's a TV adaption, I think I'd rather watch that.

Isn't that co-written with Peter Straub? I remember liking it well enough. I sometimes misremember it as being cowritten by Dean Koontz, and Koontz dumbs anything down just by association.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2827 on: March 21, 2018, 07:23:11 PM »
being spoiled on Use of Weapons would be brutal.  Its one of my biggest O SHIT media moments ever. 

team filler

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2828 on: March 21, 2018, 07:59:50 PM »
reading the original script for dream warriors. it's good, a lot darker. now I want it made into a movie  :-\

It still came out as a pretty good movie IMO.
I like the movie but we could have a had a true sequel to the original noes. of course it would have likely ended the series, similar to how new nightmare did.

Quote
int. nancy's car---day

nancy's glad to have company on this baked, desolate stretch of road.

nancy

you must be really hot. how can you stand on that asphalt without shoes?
(the hitcher says nothing)
what's your name?
(again, nothing)
where you going?

hitcher

Down.

nancy

down where?

hitcher

down where he fucks you.

 :whew
*****

chronovore

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2829 on: March 21, 2018, 08:35:09 PM »
being spoiled on Use of Weapons would be brutal.  Its one of my biggest O SHIT media moments ever.

 :'(

Yeah, it is brutal. I ended up reading the entire book, knowing what was coming, and still enjoying it, but HOLY FUCK: Thanks, Obama…

Snoopycat_

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2830 on: March 22, 2018, 07:21:10 AM »

Isn't that co-written with Peter Straub? I remember liking it well enough. I sometimes misremember it as being cowritten by Dean Koontz, and Koontz dumbs anything down just by association.

Yeah. King announced a while back that they were working on the third book. There's supposed to be a movie coming out as well.

Bebpo

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2831 on: March 29, 2018, 12:57:56 AM »
Just saw there's a Warhammer book bundle:

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/tales-from-the-worlds-of-warhammer-books

Any of these a good place to start if you've never read or played Warhammer?

chronovore

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2832 on: March 29, 2018, 01:15:21 AM »
Southern Reach: ANNIHILATION, AUTHORITY, ACCEPTANCE. Finished the first two books and am starting on the third.

The movie is even more impressive if you're into the books. I've re-watched the movie now, and there are little easter eggs here and there about it, though Garland did the adaptation work when there was only one book out. Vandermeer claims it was planned as three books, but it feels like when Anno claims this is how it was always meant to be for Evangelion, though it is clearly not true. Book 2 and 3 seem to be explaining what was not clear in Book 1.

Vandermeer's use of language is fantastic throughout, through he seems more consistent and less affected in the 2nd book. I love the ideas which are being played with throughout.

For added bonus "language as virus" or "language as mental constraint" value, I also happened to watch
spoiler (click to show/hide)
PONTYPOOL
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, which I'll write up separately in the Movies Thread, but /man/ the synchronicity is strong right now.

EVOL

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2833 on: March 29, 2018, 11:04:57 AM »
I just threw The Book of Disquiet into the garbage, couldn't handle it anymore and just picked up Nausea by Sartre by chance.

Turns out this is another one of those novels that are a collection of whiny memos from a nerd, jesus fucking christ.  :snoop

It seems to be much more accessible though, probably because there seems to be some semblance of a narrative in this one so far.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2834 on: March 29, 2018, 11:13:08 AM »
It's a philosophical novel. One about a guy basically disgusted with life. I'm sure it'll be a laugh a minute kinda deal.

EVOL

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2835 on: March 29, 2018, 11:25:32 AM »
It's a philosophical novel. One about a guy basically disgusted with life. I'm sure it'll be a laugh a minute kinda deal.

Sure, I'm actually a sucker for this shit. Reading The Book of Disquiet just wore me out, so I wasn't really prepared for another long soliloquy immediately after reading one of them, especially something as unstructured as The Book of Disquiet.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2836 on: March 29, 2018, 01:05:09 PM »
Reading through the wikipedia page makes it sound pretty good. Some cobbled together fragments of writing after the writer died. The Pessoan critics are still bitching about how the book should be read.

EVOL

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2837 on: March 29, 2018, 02:07:22 PM »
Reading through the wikipedia page makes it sound pretty good. Some cobbled together fragments of writing after the writer died. The Pessoan critics are still bitching about how the book should be read.

See, that sounded massively appealing to me - I like it when seemingly disconnected bits of writing eventually converge into a thread (or several threads). Connecting the pieces to form a picture of a character or theme is all part of the reading experience for me.

My problem with The Book of Disquiet was that by page 100 I had a pretty clear picture about who the narrator is, and by page 200 it felt like the same shit repeated in the last 100 pages, and by page 300 I was starting to check out completely. I think that's part of the point, but I just didn't have the energy to get to the end. I felt that there wasn't any enjoyment or insight to gain by reading the book anymore.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2838 on: March 29, 2018, 02:28:29 PM »
What if the quality content was back-loaded? These philosophical novels in general seem more about exploring ideas than actually crafting a fun story.

Nausea I enjoyed though, cause it actually built up to something by the end. (It helps that parts of existentialist thought overlaps with my own way of thinking.)

EVOL

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2839 on: March 30, 2018, 01:06:42 AM »
What if the quality content was back-loaded? These philosophical novels in general seem more about exploring ideas than actually crafting a fun story.

Nausea I enjoyed though, cause it actually built up to something by the end. (It helps that parts of existentialist thought overlaps with my own way of thinking.)

I wasn't expecting an enjoyable romp with hope and redemption at the end, lol. I wouldn't think there would be philosophical revelations in the end of the book. Other books that are somewhat similar like Notes From the Underground or The Fall are sequenced by time, so it would only make sense that the philosophical thesis of the books would show up in the end. But The Book of Disquiet isn't necessarily a philosophical novel per se, but more like a collection of vignettes of observations and thoughts to form a portrait of a thoroughly downtrodden and bitter individual. Hell, people still don't even know how the book should be sequenced properly. I might revisit it later, but not now.

I've really been 'enjoying' Nausea though, it's very interesting. The slavish obsession to detail is pretty suffocating, in the best way possible.

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2840 on: April 01, 2018, 04:32:03 AM »


This was enjoyable enough to just read through as a history but...okay, like the subtitle and the introduction give the impression that Roosevelt and Morgan actively worked together and did something. At no point does the book actually illustrate any instance of this or what it might be. Instead it outlines the obvious fact that they both knew (and employed) some of the same people from upper class New York society. They apparently met two or three times in their life. And the way they "remade American business" was...that Roosevelt didn't prosecute U.S. Steel and so was angry when Taft did? That latter fact being contained within the last ten pages of the book!

The book doesn't actually argue this, but the case it most makes is that both Morgan and Roosevelt had an idea that big business wasn't inherently bad, that there were good big businesses and bad ones. Only, outside of U.S. Steel, which the book tells you almost literally nothing about, it doesn't care to delineate either actors conception of what a "good" business looks like or conversely what a "bad" one does. It argues that Morgan thought that businesses had a social responsibility including decent wages, but the longest conflict of the book involves a coal strike where workers earned less than subsistence wages in a subsidiary company of Morgan's. Roosevelt does literally nothing during this strike except host a meeting between the union and corporate heads that comes to no agreement. And Morgan bails out and heads to Europe for a few months. (Not necessarily to avoid the strike, he generally did not involve himself in the management of subsidiaries.)

Actually, writing this out and thinking about it, I'm taking away a star on Goodreads. Deal with it GERARD.

Anywho, if you're the person who has placed this on hold, you're not getting it until Thursday or so, I'm not done with it yet, so be patient I have moved it to the front of the stack:

chronovore

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2841 on: April 07, 2018, 02:21:43 AM »
Haven't returned to Southern Reach book 3, Acceptance, yet.

Started re-reading The Drawing of the Dark, by Tim Powers. It's even better than I remembered.

May start the sequel to John Dies at the End, which is This Book is Full of Spiders. David Wong is pretty great.

I read Dune and now I'm muslim.
…and drinking your own recycled pee and spit, I hope.

You live in Vegas. Dune is the future you'll actually be living.

Crash Dummy

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2842 on: April 08, 2018, 04:15:52 PM »
had enough of that management shit, re-reading dubliners by joyce as a palate cleanser and just started reading a pdf copy of Philosophical Instructions:An Introduction to Contemporary Islamic Philosophy by Ayatullah Miṣbāḥ Yazdī 

Crash Dummy

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2843 on: April 09, 2018, 01:03:40 PM »
^i'm at half mast just by seeing the title "araby" tbh.

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2844 on: April 16, 2018, 12:59:05 AM »

God Damn you Arvie!!!
What have you done to me?! >:(
que

Joe Molotov

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2845 on: April 16, 2018, 09:50:25 AM »


Good book.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2846 on: April 16, 2018, 12:23:26 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
God Damn you Arvie!!!
What have you done to me?! >:(

Congrats.  This might be one of the best decisions of your life. 

How did you end up liking Gardens? 

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2847 on: April 17, 2018, 11:57:02 PM »

huh, worlds colliding, reason did a short interview with the author of this

the book is definitely not "libertarian" (and the author even less so based on what I found of his writing elsewhere, though good on him for being able to write without tipping his hand constantly in both this and his earlier gun rights book) and he frames it more as "look at how clever they were" against often hostile courts, although in the final chapter when he jumps ahead to Citizens United he does start editorializing quite a bit and the final chapter is basically a proxy-screed to repeal the First Amendment

the central thesis I got from the book is that demonizing corporate efforts at the Supreme Court, and in courts in general, is misguided, as due to their resources they often set precedents that later groups like the NAACP and womens rights and privacy advocates and so on were able to leverage to obtain later Supreme Court victories...he notes that railroad corporations attempting to avoid arguably unfair property taxes California was establishing were the first to conceive of, finance and push large numbers of "test cases" as a thing, which the NAACP later copied directly (and openly so) to great success to help start protecting civil rights...they also mastered the "circuit split" method of getting cases to the Supreme Court



the part that most warmed my heart was that he accurately rested the founding of America (and Canada, Aussieland, etc.) in common corporate law history, the colonies were all corporations first! although he didn't take the extra step to point out how all states are are "magically" glorified corporations but nobody's perfect! (he starts to get close to noting that the Constitution mirrors corporate charters, especially of the era, but quickly ducks away knowing he's treading dangerous ground)

video is basically like a 20 minute interview summary of the book

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2848 on: April 18, 2018, 12:01:31 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)
God Damn you Arvie!!!
What have you done to me?! >:(

Congrats.  This might be one of the best decisions of your life. 

How did you end up liking Gardens?
It's sorta like an orgy where you're blidnfolded. My wife would ask me what was going on and I'd reply "I'm not sure, but I'm really enjoying it"
I was really hoping for more destruction from Raest that was some cool stuff and I was rooting for him.
Yeah, it had some laughable character motivations/actions, but I've learned to overlook it.
que

Joe Molotov

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2849 on: April 18, 2018, 10:51:33 AM »
I finished The Vorrh, what a strange book. There were a lot of times when I felt like "Am I supposed to understand what's going on here, or am I just supposed to wait until it's better explained later?" And then sometimes it would be and sometimes it wouldn't. The narrative is very dream-like and meandering. There are chapters focused on about a dozen major characters, some of them never seem to converge with the other characters or the main plot, or only do so in a way that doesn't entirely make sense.

Basically the jist of it is, you've got this colonial city Essenwald on the border of a vast forest called The Vorrh somewhere in central Africa around the 20/30's (the book avoids giving exact dates or locations, but it's post-WWI), and it's booming because of lumber trade. The Vorrh is possibly the Garden of Eden, and it's guarded by some supernatural forces that no one understands but everyone respects. No one can spend more than a few days in the Vorrh without completely losing their mind; most of the logging workforce are mindless drones who have spent too long in the Vorrh and can only be compelled to work...by giving them a dead baby. This is one of the "Am I supposed to understand this or no?" moments I mentioned. But yeah, the foreman discovers that if he gives a miscarried baby to the workers every weeks, they perform some kind of ceremony over it and then go to work. No one asks questions as long as the work gets down and the money keeps flowing in.

Then there's the Bowman. He was a British officer during WWI, who was disgusted by the horrors of war and decides to leave Europe all together for colonial Africa, where he's put in charge of keeping the locals tribes in line. Eventually he goes native and marries a shaman girl named Irrenipeste, who is described as being a young girl but also possibly ancient and immortal (1000 year old loli dragon amirite, lulzzzz) and with her guidance become a sort of mythical Christ-like figure to the local tribes. Then Irrenipeste dies, but she instructs him on how to build a bow out of her bones and sinew. So that happens. He fires arrows randomly into the Vorrh and then follows them, trusting his bow-wife to lead him to something, but he can't remember what.

There's the Cyclops, Ishmael, that lives in a basement with four bakelite robots. The robots are sentient and teach him about the world through lessons that are delivered each week in a wooden crate. He also has sex with them. The boxes are delivered by a guy named Mutter, who has no idea why he's delivering the boxes, only that his father did it and his grandfather did it and the pay is decent. A rich, snoopy girl Ghertrude decides to go poking around in the basement and kills one of the robots and scares away the others, then decides to semi-adopt Ishmael because she sees him as this poor, pitiful creature. Then he has sex with her. At one point Ghertrude and Ishmael go on a fuckfest through the city during Essenwald's version of Carnaval, and Ishmael has sex with a blind woman and she is able to see after that. Do you think this is ever explained? Fuck you, of course it's not.

And obviously there's a lot of weird Vorrh monsters and assassins and also Raymond Roussel and Eadweard Muybridge are there because why wouldn't they be?

I enjoyed it a lot though, I'm ready to jump right into the sequel The Erstwhile.
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HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2850 on: April 18, 2018, 12:19:50 PM »
Good job making the book sound like tryhard garbage. Not even sure if I'm still going to read it.

Joe Molotov

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2851 on: April 24, 2018, 04:17:58 PM »
Good job making the book sound like tryhard garbage. Not even sure if I'm still going to read it.

Maybe, but not in an edgelord way. It's all very whimsical and British. He's admittedly inspired by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, and it shows.

Anyway, I started reading The Erstwhile today. It's no less weird, but it's definitely a tighter book. The plot is more focused and less cryptic and the prose feels easier to read. In the first two chapters, it's already clarified a few things that were left ambiguous in the first book. We even get an actual year this time for when the events take place (1924).

Of interest to The Bore, an early minor plot point involves a literal butt plug.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
A guy is given a rotten brain by his familiar to eat as a curative, and he's told that for it to work, he needs to hold in "the magic" as long as he can (although it turns out his familiar was just BSing him about that part).
[close]
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Bebpo

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2852 on: April 26, 2018, 05:37:46 AM »
Finished up The Dark Tower 5 - Wolves of the Calla - hehehe, I am starting to see what people are talking about in the last few books. That being said it was a fun western and a solid counter-part to Book 4's fun western. The contrasting gunslingers of the past adventure in book 4 to spiritual successor gunslinger ka-tet of the present adventure in book 5 works fairly well. Wolves was a little drawn out, especially in how it felt like 400 pages of the 900+ page novel were spent entirely on detailing Priest Callahan's journey from the end of Salem's Lot to DT. I'm really glad I read Salem's Lot recently, since I liked Callahan's character in Lot I didn't mind all that, but if I hadn't it'd probably have dragged the pacing.

If there's one negative I have with Wolves its that King is constantly teasing mysterious shit and holding it back to entice readers. There's multiple times where a main character discovers something and King hides what they've discovered from the reader to save for a reveal much later. It's kind of annoying. I also thought there were way too many red herrings in this book. I was pretty tense going into the final battle with the Wolves because

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The entire book has constant red herring foreshadowing that SHIT IS GONNA GO BAD when the battle happens. I thought it was gonna be a nasty dark ending like the gunslingers kill the Wolves but all the kids die in the process and the gunslingers are driven from the town or main characters dying or something really bad.

But like 2 townspeople die and they take out 60+ wolves and save the town, so all that tenseness reading that battle was for nothing and it was a surprisingly happy end where basically everything went to plan.
[close]

Also the silly fan-fiction stuff is fun

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Doombots with lightsabers throwing harry potter balls!

Telekinetics stealing children to feast on their TWIN ESP POWERS

hehehehe, silly but enjoyable
[close]

Will start Book 6 in a few weeks, reading Clive Barker's YA novel The Thief of Always for my monthly book club next.

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2853 on: April 29, 2018, 08:41:33 PM »
now:


and what i recently finished was:


which had a happy ending, the billionaire head of SAC simply renamed his tarnished company, reacquired his massive corporate partners and continued paying hundreds of millions for garbage art, after a small fine to the SEC of which half was credit of course, while all sorts of underlings with lesser wealth went to jail and were banned for life from the industry :american

spoiler (click to show/hide)
sld about insider trading of course
[close]

Madrun Badrun

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benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2855 on: May 11, 2018, 03:12:22 AM »


Explores the mid-19th century wave of founding of what we'd now call "communes" especially in the western expansion of America providing cheap land, opportunity, and fresh starts combining with religious-political millienialist and/or collectivist concepts or fads. While touching on a pretty decent number as there were a shit load of these in the decades between Jackson and the Civil War, it is focused around these structurally:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker_communities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Harmony,_Indiana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brook_Farm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fourier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_stirpiculture

Also, even for a casual or "amateur" history work (rather than academic) it's well-written in a relaxed style that has no problem with jokes let alone making fun of the more strange aspects of the subjects. My favorite example is his noting that in Charles Fourier's extensively described utopian phalanx there are 64 people "assigned" to grow pears, for some reason, eight of these people are "assigned" to grow crappy pears nobody wants to eat. We'll never escape the tentacles of the Big Shitty Pears lobby!

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2856 on: May 11, 2018, 04:41:34 AM »
oh, forgot to comment on If This Be Treason, which was really quite good, except on reflection it doesn't actually tackle the subtitle's suggestion of whether the events (one per chapter) are a debate about whether they're treason or not, falling back on the legal fact that treason is a specifically defined crime at the Constitutional level in the United States, so only really explores real notions of it in the post-Revolution times, and starts to more or less just describe historical events that are actually more about times when people were charged with sedition during war or something like that.

the subjects it covers are: George Logan of Logan Act fame (like treason, a not really used law in the US); the Alien and Sedition Acts period when the Adams Administration and Federalists used it against newspaper publishers; the Hartford Convention; Nicholas Trist taking advantage of slow communication times to avoid being recalled and give Mexico a more lenient treaty after the Mexican War; William Walker's career as a Latin American Filibuster/Mercenary; Clement Vallandigham not knowing when to stop trolling people who are ignoring Constitutional protections, primarily Burnside; the House's refusal to seat Socialist Victor Berger and his experience with Sedition and Espionage Act of the Wilson Administration; John Reed (of Ten Days That Shook The World fame) having similar experience with those acts, but mostly his time working for the Soviet Union's early days; The Chicago Tribune's exposure of U.S. European War Plans the week before Pearl Harbor; Prosecution of Communists under the Smith Act; Nixon's backchannel diplomacy during the 1968 election; Iran-Contra.

It actually starts to fall apart thematically, as I think you can probably see from the subjects of each chapter, as it becomes less "debatable" instances and obvious instances of the government attacking left-wing minorities, and even the debate to be had about the Tribune, Nixon and Iran-Contra is totally muted by in the first-two cases noting strong suspicion among historians that FDR was the Tribune's source, that Nixon's move was irrelevant especially since LBJ already knew and Humphrey refused to publicize it anyway, and in the latter case it doesn't even create a question about whether "treason" was occurring since it was the executive making foreign policy it supported and not with enemies (at the time) anyway.

There's also arguably much better instances to use, such as say, David Addington's career. Especially in the wake of 9/11. It not once considers say, the Confederates actually doing what the Hartford Convention rejected and starting a war in the process. It doesn't touch on people like Aaron Burr or Tokyo Rose who probably far more "came close to the line" or any spies or people like the Rosenbergs than someone like Victor Berger who was never more than a politician let alone any of the newspaper examples. Edward Snowden is mentioned in the introduction and conclusion but his actual case is never considered, and he's had modern day members of Congress and executive branch officials call him a traitor and talk about how he should be hanged. None of the American al Qaeda/Taliban/etc. are considered. John Kerry's entire life is ignored.

Even the case of John Reed isn't an instance of him coming close to treason or disloyalty, it's arguably not even "worse" than Americans who went to fight in WWI as individuals, and he was barely even hounded by the U.S. government. (Arguably, his buddies and idols, the Soviets treated him worse. The U.S. mostly dicked with his paperwork.) The Finns beat the shit out of him in prison and gave him scurvy, and he died in a Soviet hospital because the doctors identified his blatant symptoms of typhus as a mild case of the flu, despite the city being in the middle of a typhus outbreak.

William Walker waging private wars all over Latin America wasn't even aiding American enemies, in many cases as outlined in the chapter itself he was unofficially carrying out what would later be a common function of U.S. foreign policy and with the strong support of U.S. popular opinion, government officials, Congress, etc. It's more that he crossed the British, oh, and failed a lot. That's what eventually led the U.S. to try and put the kibosh on his adventures. (They failed even more than Walker did. Hondurans captured him, used three firing squads on him and then shot him in the head just to be sure.)

Still an interesting set of historical vignettes, especially if one is unfamiliar with them. As I was not I'm probably being extra harsh, especially considering some of the better examples I thought of above. Most of the selections just don't really fit really what the book seems like it's going to be about. Especially the title.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2857 on: May 12, 2018, 12:34:43 PM »
Plato's Republic.

My favourite part so far was when he said to "dispose" of "defective" kids. Whole part basically read like: "You know? Eugenics' pretty cool."

"Perform well and you too could participate in our ancient FuckFests!"

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2858 on: May 14, 2018, 10:50:49 PM »



Despite LeBron on the cover, this book is actually about players from the 1960s who actually began the fight for players bargaining rights culminating in Oscar Robertson's case, although it's mostly about the players and not really that fight or even that specific case.  The best stuff is probably about how they negotiated and made contracts and trades back in the day, and though Smith often seems kinda oblivious to it, the impact the ABA had as providing leverage to the players.

As part of the Wilt trade, half of Archie Clark's salary was being paid off the books by Jack Kent Cooke, except Jack Ramsey didn't know this. After the season he made a contract offer to raise Clark's salary and Clark rejected it telling him it would have been a 40% paycut. :lol

It's probably good enough just for all the old timer stories though, especially as the anecdotes and such come from a variety of players such as superstars like West to reserves like Mel Counts, etc. and are often general rather than asking them about the stars on their team. Even if Smith's broader argument/etc. isn't all that well handled.

Cousy was often told by coaches not to do all his fancy passing and such. When he joined the Celtics and talked to Red, Red told him "you can pass it through your ass if you want, just make sure somebody catches it." A coach after TVC's heart.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 01:01:26 AM by benjipwns »

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2859 on: May 17, 2018, 12:58:30 PM »
My favourite part about reading Plato's Republic is reading reviews and seeing people acting offended by some of the stuff in it. Acting as if the damn thing was written yesterday.

"Golly gee willickers, this 2400 year old book isn't up to date with our current moral understandings."

Really?

Bebpo

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2860 on: May 17, 2018, 01:00:51 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
Despite LeBron on the cover, this book is actually about players from the 1960s who actually began the fight for players bargaining rights culminating in Oscar Robertson's case, although it's mostly about the players and not really that fight or even that specific case.  The best stuff is probably about how they negotiated and made contracts and trades back in the day, and though Smith often seems kinda oblivious to it, the impact the ABA had as providing leverage to the players.

As part of the Wilt trade, half of Archie Clark's salary was being paid off the books by Jack Kent Cooke, except Jack Ramsey didn't know this. After the season he made a contract offer to raise Clark's salary and Clark rejected it telling him it would have been a 40% paycut. :lol

It's probably good enough just for all the old timer stories though, especially as the anecdotes and such come from a variety of players such as superstars like West to reserves like Mel Counts, etc. and are often general rather than asking them about the stars on their team. Even if Smith's broader argument/etc. isn't all that well handled.

Cousy was often told by coaches not to do all his fancy passing and such. When he joined the Celtics and talked to Red, Red told him "you can pass it through your ass if you want, just make sure somebody catches it." A coach after TVC's heart.

Why is there a giant squid on the cover.................

Joe Molotov

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2861 on: May 17, 2018, 03:14:36 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
Despite LeBron on the cover, this book is actually about players from the 1960s who actually began the fight for players bargaining rights culminating in Oscar Robertson's case, although it's mostly about the players and not really that fight or even that specific case.  The best stuff is probably about how they negotiated and made contracts and trades back in the day, and though Smith often seems kinda oblivious to it, the impact the ABA had as providing leverage to the players.

As part of the Wilt trade, half of Archie Clark's salary was being paid off the books by Jack Kent Cooke, except Jack Ramsey didn't know this. After the season he made a contract offer to raise Clark's salary and Clark rejected it telling him it would have been a 40% paycut. :lol

It's probably good enough just for all the old timer stories though, especially as the anecdotes and such come from a variety of players such as superstars like West to reserves like Mel Counts, etc. and are often general rather than asking them about the stars on their team. Even if Smith's broader argument/etc. isn't all that well handled.

Cousy was often told by coaches not to do all his fancy passing and such. When he joined the Celtics and talked to Red, Red told him "you can pass it through your ass if you want, just make sure somebody catches it." A coach after TVC's heart.

Why is there a giant squid on the cover.................

Q: Did Shaq every play against a giant squid?
A: No.

Wow, it really is answering all my questions about Basketball!
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Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2862 on: May 17, 2018, 03:54:34 PM »
I just noticed the bear too on that cover.
I mean I'm pretty sure there aren't teams called The Squids or The Bears in basketball so....


benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2863 on: May 18, 2018, 03:13:37 AM »
i have no idea, all the drawings are crazy like that and probably the best part of the book, the text is all written like it's a less cac Bill Simmons whose references all start a decade or two later (which is appropriate as it's by a 36 year old hispanic guy who writes for The Ringer and wrote for Grantland)

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2864 on: May 18, 2018, 03:15:33 AM »


ironically the title of this was "coined" by James Comey back in the early 2000s to refer to people inside the Justice Department who would play it safe to their careers no matter what and then never take responsibility for the consequences :lol

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2865 on: May 19, 2018, 02:51:11 PM »
The Second Sex.

Wow, this book is not about premature ejaculation at all.

jakefromstatefarm

  • Senior Member
Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2866 on: May 20, 2018, 10:58:42 PM »
My favourite part about reading Plato's Republic is reading reviews and seeing people acting offended by some of the stuff in it. Acting as if the damn thing was written yesterday.

"Golly gee willickers, this 2400 year old book isn't up to date with our current moral understandings."

Really?
howd this go by the way? And how’s de Beauvoir doing for you?

Snoopycat_

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2867 on: May 21, 2018, 05:22:25 AM »
Finished reading the Stephen King and Peter Straub collaboration Black House. I've always liked it but the confrontation with Mr.Munshun is a letdown. All the focus went on Burnside who was ok but Munshun was more interesting and should have had a bigger role.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2868 on: May 23, 2018, 05:04:47 AM »
howd this go by the way? And how’s de Beauvoir doing for you?

It was pretty interesting.

If you look at a lot of what he wrote for his perfect state, it'd stil be applicable to this day.

You'd have to divorce yourself from basic modern morality real hard though. Like the thing about killing "defective" offspring. If you'd take it as only for the good of the state. It's a pretty solid idea. Look at it with any humanity in you, and it's abhorrent.

I don't agree about his plans for the arts either. The neutered versions he proposes would probably stifle character growth and not actually produce the best you you could be.

It basically read as a totalitarian state. The inhibition of most freedoms would probably lead to more negative outcomes than he assumes. But that's of course looking back from a position 2000 years in the future.


I'm only 100 pages into the second sex, so it's mostly been a historical look so far.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2869 on: May 25, 2018, 04:28:27 AM »
Finished The Dark Tower VI: The Song of Susanah - was entertaining but definitely the least standalone novel and more just a short setup for the finale. Definitely like some of the prose Oh Discordia! and I’ve really grown to enjoy the characters and their interactions. The

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stephen King is a character in his own story
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Is wacky but doesn’t bother me much. I’ve been alternating books between DT books and non-DT books so next up is John Langan’s The Fisherman, and then it’ll be time to finish this wild ride of The Dark Tower that I started last year. And then I can watch the shitty movie!

Even though people say DT falls off hard and turns to shit in the back half, up until the final novel I don’t really have any problems with it. Yeah they’re not as good as the high points, but I don’t think they’re that much lower either. It’s still an entertaining read.

benjipwns

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2870 on: May 28, 2018, 02:52:57 PM »
organized part of the neverending list into a little makeshift faux trilology: Previously... -> Currently... -> Upcoming...

-> ->

should find an (ideally conspiracy-focused) book about the JFK assassination to make this into a makeshift JFK trilology :doge

spoiler (click to show/hide)

 :thinking

spoiler (click to show/hide)

 :ohyeah
[close]
[close]

EVOL

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2871 on: May 31, 2018, 02:31:55 AM »
Just finished The White Book by Han Kang, won't lie, I cried like a bitch after finishing it. I'm not sure how good the English translation is, but I highly recommend it. I really liked how sparse the prose was without being dry, a lot of the chapters would work perfectly as independent works of poetry .

Started on Tao Te Ching. I adore Zhuangzi, both as a work of philosophy and literature so I'm kind of excited to dig through this one.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2872 on: May 31, 2018, 10:43:12 AM »
Started on Tao Te Ching. I adore Zhuangzi, both as a work of philosophy and literature so I'm kind of excited to dig through this one.

Had a hard time getting anything out of Tao Te Ching. It seems to be so steeped in eastern mysticism I had no clue what anything in it alludes to.

I guess not understanding anything about it, means I'm on the path to enlightenment.


Also, now that the wank dad thread is dead, can anyone tell me how shit the book "The Rational Male" is? The one alt-right friend is reading it. Seems it's from something called the Manosphere and MGTOW. What Magic the Gathering has to do with the book, no clue.

Edit: Reading Veronika Decides to Die by Paolo Coelho right now. If it's as much up it's own ass as The Alchemist, I'll most likely hate it.

studyguy

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2873 on: May 31, 2018, 11:07:22 AM »
I just finished Best Served Cold by Joe Ambercrombie, working through some non-fiction, New Jim Crow and some memoirs now then back to fantasy/sci fi fuckery.
pause

Bebpo

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2874 on: May 31, 2018, 05:17:05 PM »
Finished The Fisherman by John Langan. This was great. One of the best Eldritch Horror tales I've read in a long time. It was a well written and touched upon all the weird stuff I love. I think a lot of people here would dig this. Starts a little slow, but once it gets to the narrative within the narrative it gets good and then can't put it down.

VomKriege

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2875 on: June 04, 2018, 05:51:38 PM »
Reading some short stories from modern Chinese author Ba Jin. It's pretty good. Heart of a slave is an especially good one. They're mostly focused on pre-communist China and characters being crushed by society and / or communist activists (though it's often more suggested than at the center of the story).

Also read the Sun Tzu's Art of War. To be honest, the supplementals were perhaps more interesting than the text itself (a recap of the historiography and debates surrounding how old the text is, a short analysis on its influences on Mao Zedong, another about its influence in Japan and their tradition in such treatises.) but it's worth a read to get a sense of insight of how much strategy was well understood already then (notably on the articulation of politics and war leadership, the importance of espionage, etc...).
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chronovore

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2876 on: June 05, 2018, 12:42:09 AM »
Finished The Fisherman by John Langan. This was great. One of the best Eldritch Horror tales I've read in a long time. It was a well written and touched upon all the weird stuff I love. I think a lot of people here would dig this. Starts a little slow, but once it gets to the narrative within the narrative it gets good and then can't put it down.

If you like unsettling, eldritch stuff in the mostly-modern era and frequently set in the PNW, check out Laird Barron. So far I've loved everything by him.

TVC15

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2877 on: June 05, 2018, 01:27:03 AM »

(Collected Works of Renzo Novatore)

This had been sitting under my bed for about a year and I’ve been picking through it slowly. I probably should have gotten to this sooner. He’s a much more stylistic writer than most other anarchists I’ve read. He’s actually enjoyable to read. As a matter of fact, I’m not so certain I’ve really learned anything new per se, but I think Novatore’s perspective is generally more enjoyable than wherever I picked up the original concepts.
serge

VomKriege

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2878 on: June 06, 2018, 06:52:27 PM »
Finished the small Ba Jin collection. The post text mentions he was persecuted by the Gang of Four, a rather euphemistic way of saying the Cultural Revolution wasn't kind to him (many little things suggest the french translated copy I own is sanctioned by China and outsourced to a friendly / aligned small publisher).

Ba Jin was a longstanding anarchist (exchanged letters with Vanzetti, among other things) and advocate for Esperanto, but repudiated very publicly his former opinions once he settled in Communist China. While not a member of the Party, he was used as the spear point of a couple of campaigns directed at other authors for being enemies of the regime.

I'm interested in finding a couple of his novels. His stories are very touching and focused on human frailties and sentiments. The political aspect if ever present in the background but faintly enough it doesn't drag down his writing with morgue.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: What book(s) are you reading?
« Reply #2879 on: June 26, 2018, 11:07:40 AM »


I generally only read King's short-form works, but this is aight so far. I think I would like it better if it was an actual mystery and not "it happened because of some supernatural shit" but we'll see, I'm only a 1/3rd of the way into it.
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