Tight Ends and penetrating the line: Matt Millen Memorial NFL 2008 Thread

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't wait to see Martin's update on the Giants 
http://grrm.livejournal.com/

[Flannel Boy]

great picks, simmons

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090109

[Joe Molotov]

The Giants went down the crapper after Plaxico shot himself.

[Brehvolution]

sigh

At least Pittsburgh won or I wouldn't have anyone to cheer for.

Next week, the Superbowl is the AFC championship game IMO.

[Bocsius]

I agree the AFC teams are better at the moment, but in these playoffs? Who knows. It's funny seeing the NFC championship game in Arizona after everyone pretty much agreed they had no business being in the postseason. But it was certainly sweet seeing them lay the smack down on the Panthers.

[Phoenix Dark]

Scouts Inc. is rating Andre Smtih as the #1 prospect in the draft. Don't fuck this up Ford

[dammitmattt]

Scouts Inc. is rating Andre Smtih as the #1 prospect in the draft. Don't fuck this up Ford

Why would you draft a LT when you have an even more gaping hole at QB during a year with at least two legitimate #1 QBs?  Rams will get 'Dre at #2.  There are a few other VERY solid LTs they will be able to grab one of them at 20 while still getting the top QB and making your fans happy.  The drop off from the top 2 QBs to #3 is MUCH higher than the drop off from the top 2 tackles to 3-5.

Stafford doesn't always make the best decisions, but he's got the tools of an NFL QB and should develop well as long as he has a good mentor.  He's your number one pick.

[siamesedreamer]

Agreed...he's definately got the arm, but I would be worried about his weight. He's not even 21 and he's at 240. What's he gonna be like in his mid-late 20s?

[dammitmattt]

He'll lose the weight once he's out of keg party central.

[Flannel Boy]

wrong thread

[Phoenix Dark]

Scouts Inc. is rating Andre Smtih as the #1 prospect in the draft. Don't fuck this up Ford

Why would you draft a LT when you have an even more gaping hole at QB during a year with at least two legitimate #1 QBs?  Rams will get 'Dre at #2.  There are a few other VERY solid LTs they will be able to grab one of them at 20 while still getting the top QB and making your fans happy.  The drop off from the top 2 QBs to #3 is MUCH higher than the drop off from the top 2 tackles to 3-5.

Stafford doesn't always make the best decisions, but he's got the tools of an NFL QB and should develop well as long as he has a good mentor.  He's your number one pick.

What's the point in paying a QB a bunch of money to get the shit knocked out of him all season. We don't have an offensive line. I'm not sold on any of the QBs. Yea Stafford looks better than the rest but imo the QB doesn't solve anything.

Rebuild the OL with Smith and pray Maualuga is still on the board at #20 which will go a long way towards rebuilding the defense.

And next year draft God's QB

[dammitmattt]

What's the point in paying a QB a bunch of money to get the shit knocked out of him all season. We don't have an offensive line. I'm not sold on any of the QBs. Yea Stafford looks better than the rest but imo the QB doesn't solve anything.

Rebuild the OL with Smith and pray Maualuga is still on the board at #20 which will go a long way towards rebuilding the defense.

And next year draft God's QB

There's one legitimate #1 QB in this year's draft.  There are 5 or so offensive linemen that are worthy of first round picks.  Why in the world would you pass on the QB when you can get an offensive lineman who's almost as good at #20.  Unless you think Orlovsky is the answer.

How much did you watch Stafford?  Being an Auburn alum married to an Alabama alum, I watch a TON of SEC football.  Stafford has all the tools in the world.  Andre Smith is great, too, but I think he's a tad overrated as a pass blocker.  No matter who you pick, you're going to be giving them a ton of money.

[DJ_Tet]

Stafford to Calvin Johnson would be almost illegal.

[dammitmattt]

Stafford to Calvin Johnson would be almost illegal.

And it will be the first time in his entire career that Calvin Johnson actually had a legitimate quarterback throwing to him.  He was one of the best college receivers of all-time and he had Reggie Motherfucking Ball throwing to him.  Imagine if he had an actual living, breathing quarterback?

[DJ_Tet]

I went to GT you don't have to tell me about Reggie Ball 

I've been DYING to see what Calvin Johnson could do with an NFL level QB, the guy had three of the most amazing catches I've ever seen and they just happened to come in the same game (NC State.)  I was at the Clemson game where Johnson dragged us off the mat with 3 TDs in the last 5 minutes.

I never imagined Johnson would be going into his third year before I got to see him play with an NFL Qb though 

Jon Kita wasn't bad, not sure why he got benched last year, but they barely played together at all.

[siamesedreamer]

CJ would immediately become the best WR in the league with a good QB. I've loved that guy since the first time I saw him in that Thursday night ESPN game his freshman year. Dude has every tool in the book.

PD is on to something though. Divine intervention may be the only thing that can help that franchise.

[Andowsky]

Stafford needs at least a couple years holding a clipboard before he'll be NFL ready. If I was Detroit, maybe trade down to get more solid players and wait until next year when better quarterbacks are available. They have a lot of holes they can fill.

[dammitmattt]

Stafford needs at least a couple years holding a clipboard before he'll be NFL ready. If I was Detroit, maybe trade down to get more solid players and wait until next year when better quarterbacks are available. They have a lot of holes they can fill.

Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy aren't any better than Stafford.  Who in the hell else would they rather have over Stafford?  I agree that he needs a year on the sidelines, but so would the other three.

[DJ_Tet]

I'm not a huge Stafford fan either but he'd very clearly be a step up from what Detroit has.  He's got a killer arm but he's a moron.  Of course he went to Georgia so that goes without saying...

[Andowsky]

Sam Bradford is by far more NFL ready than Tebow, McCoy or Stafford. He just needs to stay in college and put on some more muscle.

Colt McCoy will have a lot more starts, a lot more passes thrown and much better stats than Stafford by the time he is done. He needs to work on learning when to give up on a play and throw it away or he won't last long in the NFL but other than that he also appears to already be more NFL ready than Stafford.

Stafford and Sanchez are both project players at this point. You draft them and maybe in 2-3 years they will turn out to be worth it. An 0-16 team needs immediate improvement.

[Brehvolution]

Detroit should trade some picks for Matt Cassell. But they'll probably draft a WR with their first pick.

[ToxicAdam]

I feel Sanchez will be the best QB out of all those guys.

[dammitmattt]

Sam Bradford is by far more NFL ready than Tebow, McCoy or Stafford. He just needs to stay in college and put on some more muscle.

Colt McCoy will have a lot more starts, a lot more passes thrown and much better stats than Stafford by the time he is done. He needs to work on learning when to give up on a play and throw it away or he won't last long in the NFL but other than that he also appears to already be more NFL ready than Stafford.

Stafford and Sanchez are both project players at this point. You draft them and maybe in 2-3 years they will turn out to be worth it. An 0-16 team needs immediate improvement.

How is Bradford more NFL-ready when he doesn't have the size, doesn't have the arm, and doesn't play in an offense that's remotely like an NFL offense?  Also, don't forget that he rarely plays against good defenses.

[Andowsky]

He'll get the size by staying in college and bulking up. He has a good NFL arm. He doesn't have a rocket but he is very accurate. What college QB does play in an NFL offense?

Stafford has a rocket but hey, so does JaMarcus Russell.

[dammitmattt]

He'll get the size by staying in college and bulking up. He has a good NFL arm. He doesn't have a rocket but he is very accurate. What college QB does play in an NFL offense?

Stafford has a rocket but hey, so does JaMarcus Russell.

Mark Sanchez and John Parker Wilson, off the top of my head, both run pro-style offenses.  Georgia's offense is a mixture of NFL and spread sets, so he's under center a lot more than Bradford.  And he can make a lot more throws than JaMarcus Russell ever could.  How often did you actually watch Georgia?  Don't you live in Denver or soemthing?

Also, even if Bradford is better, there's no guarantee that the Lions would be able to get him next year unless they have the number one pick again.

[Andowsky]

What I should have said was which of the upcoming QB's play in a pro offense. I don't think any of the ones mentioned here do. Sanchez is just like Stafford, a project player years away from being NFL ready. John Parker Wilson.. is he even a top 10 QB prospect? These guys who didn't play in pro offenses are more NFL ready than guys who played in "pro offenses". I live in Texas. How often did you get to see Bradford?

Yeah there's no guarantee Detroit finishes worst in the league again but that doesn't mean they should waste a #1 pick on a guy just because he is there. The QB crop this year is pretty weak but it gets very good next year. They don't have to finish with the #1 pick to grab a good guy next season.

[dammitmattt]

What I should have said was which of the upcoming QB's play in a pro offense. I don't think any of the ones mentioned here do. Sanchez is just like Stafford, a project player years away from being NFL ready. John Parker Wilson.. is he even a top 10 QB prospect? These guys who didn't play in pro offenses are more NFL ready than guys who played in "pro offenses". I live in Texas. How often did you get to see Bradford?

Yeah there's no guarantee Detroit finishes worst in the league again but that doesn't mean they should waste a #1 pick on a guy just because he is there. The QB crop this year is pretty weak but it gets very good next year. They don't have to finish with the #1 pick to grab a good guy next season.

Oklahoma was on national TV every week so I got to see him at least 6 or 7 times this year, and he was great until he had to play a good defense.  JPW jumped to mind because I live in Alabama, not because he's a legitimate pro prospect.  Who would you rather take with the #1 pick?  An offensive lineman?  The lineman you'll get at 20 will be nearly as good.  Any QB you get at 20 is not even close.

[Andowsky]

If I was Detroit I would trade down and stock up on more picks. You can trade down, stay in the top 10, pick up a 2nd rounder and maybe more, and still grab a great player. You could even trade down with your pick from Dallas and still get quality players with your 2nd rounders.

Lions allowed by far the most points in the NFL last year. They need to cleanse as much of that 0-16 stink off of them that they can and rebuild. The best way to rebuild is through the draft and the more picks the better.

Also, why down on picking lineman? If you can't find a trade and that's your biggest need, why not? 4 linemen went in the top 15 last year and they all turned out pretty solid. Particularly Ryan Clady 

[dammitmattt]

If I was Detroit I would trade down and stock up on more picks. You can trade down, stay in the top 10, pick up a 2nd rounder and maybe more, and still grab a great player. You could even trade down with your pick from Dallas and still get quality players with your 2nd rounders.

Lions allowed by far the most points in the NFL last year. They need to cleanse as much of that 0-16 stink off of them that they can and rebuild. The best way to rebuild is through the draft and the more picks the better.

Also, why down on picking lineman? If you can't find a trade and that's your biggest need, why not? 4 linemen went in the top 15 last year and they all turned out pretty solid. Particularly Ryan Clady 

I love picking lineman, but not over a potential stud starting QB.  The Rams have the second pick and would be insane to pick up anyone but a LT (both Oher and Smith are good picks here).  Don't forget that sometimes teams just don't want the #1 pick and all of the drama/money that comes with it.  Who else this year has the draft picks and is willing to give them up for the #1 pick?  I'm sure not many teams are willing to do that.  The Lions are already doing well with 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds, so it's not like they can't follow your advice and still get the #1 QB.

[Andowsky]

The Bengals, Jags, Packers and Rams could all use good linemen. Almost everyone in the top 15 could use a great defensive lineman as well and there are a couple great guys on the top of the draft. Niners could trade up for a QB, as could the Seahawks potentially, especially since all of these guys aren't year 1 or year 2 starters. They will more likely want one of the top WR's, and so will the Jags and Raiders. There are always possibilities. Look at what Jacksonville did last year.

Out of the top 10, only the Lions and Niners really have true needs at QB. That leaves 8 spots they could move and still grab Sanchez or Stafford. Unless of course someone else trades up after they trade down. And if that happens, oh well. Are they going to be any good this year anyway? No. And now maybe they can get a superior QB in McCoy or Bradford.

[Brehvolution]

The 49ers won't draft another qb that high until they dump Alex Smith and his contract.

[dammitmattt]

The Bengals, Jags, Packers and Rams could all use good linemen. Almost everyone in the top 15 could use a great defensive lineman as well and there are a couple great guys on the top of the draft. Niners could trade up for a QB, as could the Seahawks potentially, especially since all of these guys aren't year 1 or year 2 starters. They will more likely want one of the top WR's, and so will the Jags and Raiders. There are always possibilities. Look at what Jacksonville did last year.

Out of the top 10, only the Lions and Niners really have true needs at QB. That leaves 8 spots they could move and still grab Sanchez or Stafford. Unless of course someone else trades up after they trade down. And if that happens, oh well. Are they going to be any good this year anyway? No. And now maybe they can get a superior QB in McCoy or Bradford.

You're the only person I've heard that thinks McCoy is superior to Stafford as an NFL prospect.  Also, the Chiefs have a pretty big glaring need at QB unless they think Thigpen showed enough during the second half for him to be the man.  Brodie sure as hell isn't the answer.

[Andowsky]

Maybe McCoy is a little behind Stafford right now, maybe not. But he's thrown a hell of a lot more passes and will only get more snaps next year while Stafford holds a clipboard for someone. My point is by the time McCoy goes to the NFL, he will be a superior QB than Stafford is now.

I think Chiefs pass on a QB because of Thigpen. The guy threw 18 touchdowns to 12 INTs and was also a great playmaker with his feet. If they can shore up his protection and maybe give him another weapon, he might turn out alright. If not, there are lots of QB's coming next year.

Zero: Alex Smith is gone from SF unless he is willing to take a sizeable pay cut. And rather than do that, I think he would want a fresh start somewhere else. He's on the books for almost 10,000,000 this year IIRC.

[Andowsky]

The better question DM is, why can't you beat Lonestar? Fool sucks. You and Striker are the best two people in the dynasty that I have played. My first loss ever is coming in mere days

[Lone]

hehe, oh Ando

[Andowsky]

[Phoenix Dark]

The problem with picking a QB is that if we do, most of our picks will have to be offensive minded after that. They'll need to get another WR and OL for him to grow with, and more importantly to give him more options than strictly throwing to Johnson. At the end of the day the offense MIGHT be better but you're going to still have no defense. We can't expect free agents to come here, so the draft has to address the defense.

Building up the OL and defense will make the entire team better. A few good OL will keep our current QBs alive; Orlowsky isn't great, but if given time and weapons he can do well.

QB is too much of a crap shoot, but maybe I'm biased after the Harrington disaster. I certainly don't want Sanchez. Good QB but how many junior QBs in the last few years have done anything in the NFL? IIRC it's about 2 out of the last 11.

[Flannel Boy]

shitbin

[Flannel Boy]

They got the conversion

This is a good game.

I'm never going to write that memo.  :'(

[Flannel Boy]

Those were some bad throws. 

[Phoenix Dark]

Kinda feel bad for McNabb.  :'(

[Human Snorenado]

Kinda feel bad for McNabb.  :'(

Fuck McNabb, he's a choker.  The only time he actually made it out of an NFC championship game was when he played the Falcons, doesn't count.

[etiolate]

I have no idea how the Cards made it to the Superbowl. This team was barely able to beat a Niners squad that had just changed coaches mid-week and had JT O'Sullivan at QB.

[etiolate]

I mean seriously, this is there coach.

"That drive where we scored a touchdown at the end of the game and took seven minutes was really the difference," Arizona coach Ken Whisenhunt said.

[siamesedreamer]

I'd like to see the cards win the SB. But, that would mean Matt Leinart gets a SB ring. 

[Human Snorenado]

Don't worry sd, Pittsburgh is gonna rape them.

[siamesedreamer]

I agree, but that's what I said when they were going into Carolina.

[Phoenix Dark]

I agree, but that's what I said when they were going into Carolina.

and that's what I thought when the game started today. Arizona is dangerous, fuck. They may not have a great defense but they score enough points to compensate.

Rothlesburgerz is gonna have to earn this ring

[Human Snorenado]

Fortunately, Pittsburgh knows how to handle a team that relies on one or two star players.  Kurt Warner is gonna get Kimo'd, and there's nothing Jesus can do about it.

[CajoleJuice]

Fortunately, Pittsburgh knows how to handle a team that relies on one or two star players.  Kurt Warner is gonna get Kimo'd, and there's nothing Jesus can do about it.

let's pray that you're right

oh wait lol

[Phoenix Dark]

 

Rothlesburgerz did pretty well against a fuck awesome defense today. The superbowl could be very entertaining OR a huge blowout on either side

[ToxicAdam]

It will be close at halftime and then Pittsburgh will blow their doors off in the second half.

38-17

[Andowsky]

If there is a God, the Steelers will go down.

[dammitmattt]

If there is a God, the Steelers will go down.

Why?  They were consistently good all year long, earned their bye, and stepped up on both sides of the ball in the playoffs.  They deserve it more than anyone!

[Andowsky]

Because their fans are already insufferable. Same reason why I prayed for a Philly loss.

[Flannel Boy]

Arizona will win. Warner has Jesus power.

[dammitmattt]

Because their fans are already insufferable. Same reason why I prayed for a Philly loss.

I never really thought so because most of their fans are born and bred there.  Same with Philly.  It's not like any LA or NY-based team with the bandwagon fans or a new money city like Phoenix where there's no old school fan base in sight.

[Andowsky]

Because their fans are already insufferable. Same reason why I prayed for a Philly loss.

I never really thought so because most of their fans are born and bred there.  Same with Philly.  It's not like any LA or NY-based team with the bandwagon fans or a new money city like Phoenix where there's no old school fan base in sight.

You really think so? They seem to be just like Dallas to me, tons of fans all across the country. A lot of bandwagon fans because they have 5 Super Bowls and are always, always competitive.

[ToxicAdam]

I never really thought so because most of their fans are born and bred there.  Same with Philly.  It's not like any LA or NY-based team with the bandwagon fans or a new money city like Phoenix where there's no old school fan base in sight.

Are you kidding?! Pittsburgh has about as many bandwagon fans as the Cowboys or the Niners.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, you're insane, dude.

I've lived on both coasts and the two things they had in common were cockroaches and Steelers fans.  They're like a fucking disease.