"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Human Snorenado]

I swear, if Obama's agenda gets kneecapped by the Democrats blowing a special Senate election in Massachusetts, I'm going to give this country such a glaring-at.

I've been pre-emptively glaring at the country since about Friday afternoon.  Of course, Brown will lose in 2012 when the seat is up again but in the meantime it sure will suck.  Supposedly the MA Secretary of State can drag his feet to certify the election for a couple of weeks so I'm pretty sure healthcare will get done in the interim but the crowing of the distinguished mentally-challenged fellows in the meantime will be pretty much unbearable.

Basically, if the economy doesn't start seriously improving by this November America might not even be around in 2012 for the world to end on us in December. 

But this is just exhibit 2343048308903890 in the "Democrats sure do suck at strategy" meme.

[Phoenix Dark]

Dems are getting swept the fuck out in November. This is pathetic.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The natural position of the Democrat is a tail tucked between their legs.

[Gruco]

Even if they pull off healthcare with the various exit strategies, everything else is pretty much out of the question.  I'm not glaring at the country at that point.  Probably more like crying.  Lots of crying.

[Phoenix Dark]

Sounds like they can pass it within the couple weeks it'll take to seat Brown. But as you said, after that you can kiss a good deal of Obama's agenda goodbye. There will be some republican support on energy (Graham), but what about financial reform? Or student loans? Or immigration?

Romney 2012

[Human Snorenado]

Even if they pull off healthcare with the various exit strategies, everything else is pretty much out of the question.  I'm not glaring at the country at that point.  Probably more like crying.  Lots of crying.

Oh well, America had a good run.  It's a shame that a 30% crazed teabagging minority of nimrods will be able to sink the country, but it just goes to show you that if we'd gone with my plan of throwing all stupid people into the sun, we wouldn't have to essentially dissolve the Federal govt.

[Human Snorenado]

Even if they pull off healthcare with the various exit strategies, everything else is pretty much out of the question.  I'm not glaring at the country at that point.  Probably more like crying.  Lots of crying.

Oh well, America had a good run.  It's a shame that a 30% crazed teabagging minority of nimrods will be able to sink the country, but it just goes to show you that if we'd gone with my plan of throwing all stupid people into the sun, we wouldn't have to essentially dissolve the Federal govt.

Your plan is flawed, as you would be sending the majority of the federal government into the sun, thus dissolving it.  On the other hand, either way, essentially dissolving the federal government... 

Unfortunately, you wouldn't be around to see it happen.  Oh the ironing.

[BlueTsunami]

I live in Mass. and this whole thing has the state in some sort of red alert. Also, Scott Brown's TV Spots are hilariously low budget but he has two smokin' daughter to shill for him.

[Phoenix Dark]

I guess we know who you're voting for

[Human Snorenado]

Brown will be so toast in two years.  I guess that's the only silver lining, is that President Palin will have one fewer Republican in the Senate after 2012.

[BlueTsunami]

I guess we know who you're voting for

[Ganhyun]

Even if they pull off healthcare with the various exit strategies, everything else is pretty much out of the question.  I'm not glaring at the country at that point.  Probably more like crying.  Lots of crying.

Oh well, America had a good run.  It's a shame that a 30% crazed teabagging minority of nimrods will be able to sink the country, but it just goes to show you that if we'd gone with my plan of throwing all stupid people into the sun, we wouldn't have to essentially dissolve the Federal govt.

The problem with your idea is that who decides who/what is stupid? Though by your leanings and ways I'm guessing you mean anyone who isn't a Democrat is stupid and needs to be thrown into the sun.   

spoiler (click to show/hide)

you still need to think about your heart man. don't have a heart attack on us.

[close]

Someone else mentioned this at work. I figured I'd share it with you  guys (though I know you wont believe it and will dismiss it).

America is not a far right or far left country. It is a moderate/somewhat (not a whole lot) right leaning country. The only thing that changed alot in the last 10-12 years was people's party affiliation as they grew tired of/disliked either side's policies/agenda.

Just like Republicans have done before, Democrats now think that since they won so handily, they have the right to railroad whatever they think is right through and pass it. However, in the honest truth, the majority of the people just wanted change from Bush, but not change THAT FAR to the left.

And this is being reflected in Massachusetts.

[Fragamemnon]

America is not a far right or far left country. It is a moderate/somewhat (not a whole lot) right leaning country. The only thing that changed alot in the last 10-12 years was people's party affiliation as they grew tired of/disliked either side's policies/agenda.

I agree that it  is neither, but above all else right now it's a pragmatic, results-oriented country that wants to see things change. I don't think Democrats are paying the price for being too far to the left, I think they are paying the price that any party pays due to the incredibly fucked up/unresponsive nature of the institutions in play.

[Eric P]

Just like Republicans have done before, Democrats now think that since they won so handily, they have the right to railroad whatever they think is right through and pass it.

which is precisely why the democrats are totally ignoring the republicans in the house and senate and not trying to get them on board for various policies.

[Brehvolution]

Democrats now think that since they won so handily, they have the right to railroad whatever they think is right through and pass it.

Obama was voted in for his ideas of what needed to change. He's not doing anything he didn't campaign on. Nothing is being railroaded in. It would only feel that way if you listened and  to the bullshit conservative media.

[Human Snorenado]

I think that people want us to make a fast, hard turn into new things/practices/laws etc.  Well, not all people- there are some idiots like the teabaggers that only have a bare grasp on what they THINK they know.  But the point is, the country can't change quickly.  Unfortunate, but true.  We're not a jet ski, but a big, dumb hulking ocean liner that needs a couple of miles to stop and turns very slowly.  Try turning one of those stupid things around and going in a new direction.  It ain't easy.

[Human Snorenado]

Just like Republicans have done before, Democrats now think that since they won so handily, they have the right to railroad whatever they think is right through and pass it.

which is precisely why the democrats are totally ignoring the republicans in the house and senate and not trying to get them on board for various policies.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but the Republicans pretty much decided after the election in 2008 that the best way to get back into power was to scream "Socialism!" at the top of their lungs whenever Obama tried to do anything and just vote against it en masse.  They've made no good faith efforts to actually govern whatsoever, and the few that do get labeled traitors by the far right nutjobs like Erick Erickson from RedState or whatever.

[Ganhyun]

Just like Republicans have done before, Democrats now think that since they won so handily, they have the right to railroad whatever they think is right through and pass it.

which is precisely why the democrats are totally ignoring the republicans in the house and senate and not trying to get them on board for various policies.

Right, and this is being seen by a lot of middle ground people as pushing policies/agendas through and not cooperation.  I agree that its happened before. And likely will continue to happen on both sides.

Obama was voted in for his ideas of change.

This I agree with. Most people, in my co-worker's and my opinion, simple wanted anything but more Bush/Bush-type policies.

I think that people want us to make a fast, hard turn into new things/practices/laws etc.  

Part of the whole "I want it now culture"

Well, not all people- there are some idiots like the teabaggers that only have a bare grasp on what they THINK they know.

People who believe strongly in things react loudly and harshly to things they dont like/want. That goes both ways. I recall Liberals who disagreed with Bush/Republican policies (such as the Irag war)camping out at his ranch in Texas protesting. Or kicking the military out of their city.

But the point is, the country can't change quickly.  Unfortunate, but true.

Change usually is slow and usually never easy. Thats true of anything to be honest.

The thing is, right now, as far as Health Care Reform goes, people are split about 50/50 for the most part on this. When you break it down even further, you have groups thinking its too far, not far enough, not enough compromise, etc...

But alas, this was one of the things we were warned about. IIRC, wasn't it Washington who pleaded that we not adopt a 2 party system to prevent something such as this from happening?

[Fragamemnon]

I'd be more sympathetic to people complaining about pushing through agendas/policies without the other party's contribution if it weren't for the behavior of the Republican leadership over the past year. Working with them to meet some sort of common ground is something they have been completely disinterested in.

It's like asking a friend if he wants to go get Indian or Mexican, hell anything, for lunch, and instead he keeps insisting that we should go to AutoZone and drink motor oil instead.

[Brehvolution]

I can't believe this is allowed on the air. 
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/fox-and-friends-suggests-brown-win-will-boost-your-401k-video.php?ref=fpb

[Phoenix Dark]

also some hope for Croakley

Former Kennedy aide does the math for a Coakley win

It starts with the numbers for the primaries a month ago: 650,000 Democrats voted, and 160,000 Republicans. Commonwealth Secretary Bill Galvin on Monday estimated that 1.6 to 2.2 million would turn out on Tuesday. For reference, in the November 2008 presidential election, turnout was 3 million.

"My gut -- and early calls -- tell me we're well on the low side of the Galvin estimate because of weather," Parker says, "but we'll make at least 1.2 million easily.

"There are 490,000 registered Republicans in the state. If three-quarters of them turn out -- a big 'if' -- that means Brown needs at least 300,000 independents. Meanwhile, if just the same number of Dem ALONE as showed up in December show up today, Martha wins.

"We'll see. In retail politics, after billions spent on media and contact, it's all turnout, turnout, turnout."

According to the MA sec of state, turnout is up 130% in Boston, and is up overall across the state

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I wish that Democrats would railroad legislation in.  It's how the Republicans rolled from 9/11 to the tail end of 2006.

It is what the people want as well.  2008 was a sound rejection of Reaganomics and authoritarian Republicans who are always willing to throw the public under the bus to ensure their butt buddies rake in cash.

2010 will be a voting of Democrats out because they're not enthusiastic about what they've done (which appears to be very little).  I don't know why some people think voting in more Republicans would be the solution but some do...

I still think Obama has 2012.

[Fragamemnon]

2010 will be a voting of Democrats out because they're not enthusiastic about what they've done (which appears to be very little).  I don't know why some people think voting in more Republicans would be the solution but some do...

I still think Obama has 2012.

I think most 2010 losses will be attributable more to erosion in Democratic enthusiasm than any real GOP demographic gains. Sure, they might gain a few "independents", but most of those are people too (rightfully) ashamed to be associated with the Republican Party or are faux-libertopians voting against the nanny state.

[Phoenix Dark]

I really don't see any sense of urgency or strategy from the WH right now. They let Baucus/Snowe run the clock out, now they're reaping the consequences. To make matters worse, Obama really didn't lead on the issue. He went out campaigning for a bit after his speech/"you lie", but that was about it.

Dems are going to get fucked in 2010; more because of the economy and a lack of enthusiasm on the left than due to anyone liking republican "ideas." They won't lose the senate but I could see the house changing sides or getting uber close. Unemployment will still be high, and we don't know what dems will even get done between now and November; with 59 senators they certainly won't be getting the base excited on many issues.

I could see Obama losing as young people lose hope, moderates jump ship, and promises made disappear.

[Oblivion]

People who believe strongly in things react loudly and harshly to things they dont like/want. That goes both ways. I recall Liberals who disagreed with Bush/Republican policies (such as the Irag war)camping out at his ranch in Texas protesting. Or kicking the military out of their city.

Surely you could have used a better example than the Iraq war protestors? Might I suggest truthers?

[Brehvolution]

People who believe strongly in things react loudly and harshly to things they dont like/want.

Especially when they are told what not to like by the unchecked, corporation backed media.

[ToxicAdam]

Harry Reid should just announce his retirement tomorrow. He's fucked.

[Human Snorenado]

Harry Reid should just announce his retirement tomorrow. He's fucked.

Don't expect people on our side of the aisle to be too choked up about it, either.  Not because of the stupid fake controversy over something dumb he said (imagine that, a politician said something stupid, let's all get offended) but because an effective Majority Leader should have a seat in a state where they don't have to worry about having a contentious election.  He could do his job better if he was from Illinois or New York.

[The Fake Shemp]

Democrats are stupid.

[Phoenix Dark]

Harry Reid should just announce his retirement tomorrow. He's fucked.

Don't expect people on our side of the aisle to be too choked up about it, either.  Not because of the stupid fake controversy over something dumb he said (imagine that, a politician said something stupid, let's all get offended) but because an effective Majority Leader should have a seat in a state where they don't have to worry about having a contentious election.  He could do his job better if he was from Illinois or New York.

Durbin or Shumer

[siamesedreamer]

For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of Massachusettes.

[Human Snorenado]

For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of Massachusettes.

Oh, go away.

"I am glad that the country will not be able to govern itself now.  This is awesome."

[Phoenix Dark]

Thanks Obama for letting Baucus, Grassley, and Snowe run the clock out, then showing little leadership in, you know, defending your bill.

[AdmiralViscen]

SD remembered his password just in the nick of time!

[Human Snorenado]

Thanks Obama for letting Baucus, Grassley, and Snowe run the clock out, then showing little leadership in, you know, defending your bill.

I really hope he's learned a lesson here.  The Republicans aren't interested in compromising anything to help govern the country, so don't try to reach out to them at all.  Let the spectacle of asshole Republicans continually filibustering EVERYTHING become commonplace and people will get sick of that, too.

[Phoenix Dark]

No way Hillary would have sat on her ass while Baucus and Co. ran the clock out, or gone on a limp wrist "campaign" tour to stump for the bill.

Jimmy Carter with a tan confirmed

[siamesedreamer]

No way Hillary would have sat on her ass while Baucus and Co. ran the clock out, or gone on a limp wrist "campaign" tour to stump for the bill.

I believe guys like Frag made that argument from the very beginning.

[ToxicAdam]

I wouldn't read too much into this. This is 5 consecutive years of anti-incumbent elections. For whatever reason, Scott Brown was able to capture the "outsider" label and ran with it. That and his distinguished career were probably enough to destroy Coakley among white males.

The current congress has not done much to raise their HORRIBLE approval ratings, something has to give. So even if the Republicans win back the house in 2010, they could give it right back in 2012 if things still remain stagnant. I think it is too soon to label this an 'anti-democrat' movement, more like blind, seething voter rage.

[Human Snorenado]

Long term, demographics still favor the party that doesn't only want to cater to white religious hillbillies so I'm not too worried.  But this is going to be seriously annoying for the next couple of years.

Obama ought to tell Pelosi and Reid that they've got until this weekend to compromise on something and vote on it before Brown gets seated, and then after that the House would just have to approve the Senate bill verbatim unless they want to try to use reconciliation, which wouldn't work for most of it.

Then Rahm ought to lock Obama in the basement, dose him with acid and show him cg movies of Republicans killing and eating Sasha and Malia so he gets the picture.

[siamesedreamer]

The Reps will not win back the House in the fall.

[Phoenix Dark]

Long term, demographics still favor the party that doesn't only want to cater to white religious hillbillies so I'm not too worried.  But this is going to be seriously annoying for the next couple of years.

Obama ought to tell Pelosi and Reid that they've got until this weekend to compromise on something and vote on it before Brown gets seated, and then after that the House would just have to approve the Senate bill verbatim unless they want to try to use reconciliation, which wouldn't work for most of it.

Then Rahm ought to lock Obama in the basement, dose him with acid and show him cg movies of Republicans killing and eating Sasha and Malia so he gets the picture.

oh you mean Rahm "compromise everything to shit, shake your ass for the banks" Emmanuel?

[Human Snorenado]

The Reps will not win back the House in the fall.

Nope.  If I had to bet right now I'd say they'll net around 20 seats tho.  Honestly, if I'm living in Wilmington this November I plan on voting for the Republican, since my "Democratic" Congressman Mike McIntyre has voted against anything that mattered and will continue to do so on any important issue.  So fuck that guy.

[siamesedreamer]

I think it will be a bit higher than that. But, definately under 30.

[ToxicAdam]

The more interesting number will be the incumbent body count.

[Human Snorenado]

I think it will be a bit higher than that. But, definately under 30.

Net will be +/- 5 within 20.  They'll win more than that, but there are a lot of retirements on the Republican side and there are a few seats you guys are going to lose, also.  Thinking specifically of the guy in William Jefferson's old district who thought he could vote like Eric Cantor while representing a 70% black constituency.

[Human Snorenado]

Also, John Cole spits the truth, per the usual.

I know a lot of you are really upset about the loss, but if people want to be honest about what happened tonight, this is not the fault of progressive activists (despite the fact that I am incapable of behaving maturely and insisted on being a jackass on twitter). This is not the fault of the adminstration and Barack Obama, because if Coakley had Obama’s numbers in Mass., she would be the next Senator.

This is about an arrogant state party, a horrible and lazy candidate who was unprepared and unmotivated, out of touch with the voters, incapable or unwilling to put in the work and shake the hands and massage the egos and put in the hours, and they got their asses handed to them. I’m sure the exit polling will give us more information, but right now it looks to me that this was about the fundamentals of running a good campaign. Coakley and company didn’t adhere to them.

[ToxicAdam]

I wouldn't be too hard on her. She had a commanding lead just 20 days ago. Brown wasn't even seen as a serious threat until last weekend. I guess in politics, you never take any lead for granted, but it's human nature.

[Phoenix Dark]

9:45 PM: Sen. Webb says no votes on Health Care in the senate until Brown is seated.

TPM

Weiner doubts the house will pass the senate bill.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think long term demographics are pretty lol.  Republicans are a major political party - they'll find issues that will resonate with the rising non-white middle class.  I suspect it will be economic issues.  Saying the Republicans will shrivel up when there are less angry white men around is pretty snarky but incorrect.  The Democrats used to be the party of the poor and downtrodden until 1968 done fucked a lot of that up.

Also regarding Coakley, it is the same type of arrogance that cost Daschle, Gephardt, Santorum, etc. their seats.

[siamesedreamer]

Always figured cooler heads would prevail from the moderate Dem circles over a Brown win. Bayh was earlier this afternoon and now Webb. Next up will be Nelson, Lincoln, Casey, the FL Nelson, Warner, the two CO guys, and Lieandruexuexuex.

[ToxicAdam]

I'm curious which way Sherrod Brown will go. I think he's a good senator, but could get caught up in all this.

[Phoenix Dark]

Almost to a man, rank and file House Dems have said tonight they will NOT vote for the Senate bill.

http://twitter.com/RussertXM_NBC

[youtube=560,345]_Xm1XErUvXo[/youtube]

[CajoleJuice]

Libertarian FB status of the day:

"[name] appreciates the irony of the situation. A death, that probably would have been prevented in a totally free medical market, saved the country tonight from moving one step closer to slavery at the hands of the departed and his confederates."

[tiesto]

Almost to a man, rank and file House Dems have said tonight they will NOT vote for the Senate bill.

http://twitter.com/RussertXM_NBC

[youtube=560,345]_Xm1XErUvXo[/youtube]

Nice, Luke Russert has good taste in football teams.

Amazing how my neocon friends are going nuts about the Mass victory. Hopefully it won't change much in the long run, but I'm getting more and more jaded with respect to both Obama and the dems as days pass.

[Ichirou]

Fuck Obama.

[Joe Molotov]

Libertarian FB status of the day:

"[name] appreciates the irony of the situation. A death, that probably would have been prevented in a totally free medical market, saved the country tonight from moving one step closer to slavery at the hands of the departed and his confederates."

[Mandark]

No way Hillary would have sat on her ass while Baucus and Co. ran the clock out, or gone on a limp wrist "campaign" tour to stump for the bill.

Jimmy Carter with a tan confirmed

Yeah, I bet if Hillary were in charge of health care reform, and decided to control the process at the expense of the Congressional leadership, they'd have had a bill passed by... O WAIT.

Hillary repeatedly said she wouldn't tackle health reform in her first term, and I think you were paying attention enough during election season to know this.  Don't be a FDL librul.

[Mandark]

No.  Obama's plan is extremely similar to the program they already have in MA, which is popular enough that the Republican who won had to say he supported it, even while being against the bill in Congress.

Bad economies punish incumbent parties, and the reality of sausage-making has demoralized the Democrats' volunteer base.

[Mandark]

The Democrats put a bunch of vulnerable newbies from conservative districts in the House Financial Services Committee, because a seat there will let them raise a bunch of money.  Specifically, money from banks in return for favorable votes.

So it's gonna be harder than it would otherwise to get a decent bill out of committee, and that would spare reform opponents from having to publicly vote against it.  I think there are a lot of Congressmen who would try to kill the bill early and use parliamentary tricks to delay it, but would vote Yes once the cameras were on.

The Democrats need to just ping-pong the healthcare bill then do some hardcore financial regulation.  It's the one area where good policy also makes great politics.  It's a big crowd-pleaser and would expose a lot of Republican populist rhetoric as bunk.

[Phoenix Dark]

How will they ping pong it with blue dogs bailing and even liberals saying they won't pass the senate's bill? I shouldn't doubt Pelosi but I'm still fucking baffled as to how this will work.