Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1881222 times)

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Ichirou

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He's already provided his birth certificate (certificate of live birth) hasn't he?  What type of document do these folks want?
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Stoney Mason

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Phoenix Dark

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He's already provided his birth certificate (certificate of live birth) hasn't he?  What type of document do these folks want?

They say he's shown a certificate of live birth, and needs to show an actual birth certificate from a hospital. It's in Hawaii right now; the state went electronic awhile ago so it's on file on a computer there or something. The hospital officials say they've seen it and that it shows he was born in the US.

I just want to see it revealed so we can finally put to rest the idea that this quest has nothing to do with Obama's race. The birthers will simply pivot to something else - maybe Obama spent millions forging a certificate, or the hospital has some "back room deal" with him, etc.
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Cheebs

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Yeah, Hawaii went completely electronic so it created this loophole for birthers to exploit. Even if Hawaii wasn't 100% electronic in its records I doubt Obama would stoop to their level and walk into the Arizona Sec of State to show off his birth certificate in person.

Speaking of which if this law isn't over-turned how does Obama get on the ballot in AZ? Isn't there no technical birth certificate paper anymore since its all electronic, only the live birth thing is on paper iirc? Would they actually bar him from being on the ballot due to Hawaii having all records being electronic?

Phoenix Dark

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/36765811#36765922 (fixed link)
David Brooks: yea the AZ bill is horrible, but dems playing politics on this is even worse!

This new "dems are starting the debate before any preparatory work was done" meme is so dumb I'm surprised no one is being called out for it. Shumer and Graham were working on a bill months ago.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 02:00:23 PM by Phoenix Dark »
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Black/secret muslim/foreign-born...at the end of the day, what freaks out the Republican base so much is that he is in any way different from the old white men they've been used to for the past several hundred years and that takes them out of their comfort zone - never mind that he's been mostly governing from the center and has repeatedly tried reaching out to the Republicans in Washington only to get his hand slapped away each time.

I've noticed while traveling abroad that I've never met a conservative American...anyone who's open-minded enough to travel to different countries and experience different cultures always seem to be fairly liberal.

Look for tour groups. That's where you'll find them. They tend to not go off the beaten path and stick to only big touristy sites.
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Cheebs

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/36765811#36765922 (fixed link)
David Brooks: yea the AZ bill is horrible, but dems playing politics on this is even worse!

This new "dems are starting the debate before any preparatory work was done" meme is so dumb I'm surprised no one is being called out for it. Shumer and Graham were working on a bill months ago.
David Brooks likes to attack both sides on issues regardless if one is right or wrong just so he can feel above the fray and important.

Stoney Mason

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David Brooks is a conservative who is embarrassed to be a conservative with his fellow conservatives like Rush Limbaugh so he attacks both sides aggressively. He's a self hating conservative. There are a lot of those now in academia circles.

Cheebs

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David Brooks is a conservative who is embarrassed to be a conservative with his fellow conservatives like Rush Limbaugh so he attacks both sides aggressively. He's a self hating conservative. There are a lot of those now in academia circles.
For some reason Obama took a liking to him though and often talks to him, well according to Brooks at least. Brooks has used Obama a unnamed source before in the past.

Brehvolution

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THe birther "movement" can be summed up in this concise manner:

"Show us your birth certificate, boy."

"No"

Rageeeeeeeeeeeeee, how dare a black man tell his mastah no!
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Ichirou

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THe birther "movement" can be summed up in this concise manner:

"Show us your birth certificate, boy."

"No"

Rageeeeeeeeeeeeee, how dare a black man tell his mastah no!

Nailed it.
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Mandark

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David Brooks has been as execrable as the Onion's been funny the last few months.  I could rant about him for pages, but instead I'll link to his Dickipedia entry:

Quote from: Dickipedia
Brooks is very interested in anthropology, psychology and sociology, and likes to apply the language and tools of these fields to his analysis of politics and pop culture. He wishes to be taken very seriously by scholars in these fields, and would be, if only he hadn’t been born extremely lazy.

...

At an early age, he resolved that he would overcome his disability through a combination of dishonesty and smiling.

Fresh Prince

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Whenever I saw him on Jim Lehrer he always seemed moderate and relatively intelligent ???
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Tristam

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In the latest New Yorker, Jill Lepore details a history of tea party protests, beginning with the original and ending with the current incarnation. The highlights, of course, are quotes from members of the latter.

Quote from: lol
“All the government does is take my money and give it to other people,” Hess told me. Hess’s own salary is paid by the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security; he works for M.I.T.’s Lincoln Laboratory, studying chemical and biological warfare.

Quote from: lol
"A nurse from Worcester who grew up in the Midwest and is registered as an Independent explained what getting back to the country’s eighteenth-century roots means to her: “I don’t want the government giving money to people who don’t want to work. Government is for the post office, and to defend our country, and maybe for the roads. That’s all.”

Quote from: lol
“Can you imagine if the British said not only do you have to pay a tax on the tea but you have to buy the tea and you have to buy tea for your neighbor?” Hess said.

Quote from: lol
They’re mad about the bums—the bums on the streets, the bums in Washington. George said, “Every drug addict gets a check. We write those checks.” Joe said, “Stay out of our wallets. I don’t care: Democrat, Republican? I don’t care.”

It's like they're trying to outdo Prole's characterization of them: They'd be rich if it weren't for the GUBMENT giving their money to dirty poors to buy HD TEE VEES.

And here is where your face should ideally meet your palm:

Quote from: lol
Then George told me, “My little girl, when she was three, she got real sick. Had to be in intensive care for ten days. Had to have a tracheotomy. I had shit for insurance. The hospital sent me a bill. Ten thousand dollars. I got a second job; I sent the hospital one hundred bucks a week. That was the right thing to do. This is wrong. People want something, they have to work for it.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/03/100503fa_fact_lepore?currentPage=1

Van Cruncheon

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at this point, it's just a big culture war. there are no economic principles or coherent ideology driving these folks; there's just base rage over the dawning awareness that THEY are at the bottom of the social structure overall, and they actually don't have anyone to look down on.
duc

Stoney Mason

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It's the same base rage that has been fueling many Republicans since Reagan's welfare queen.

No matter how much you reform there will always be a large group of them stoked up on the idea.

Mandark

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Ben Nelson just voted against opening debate on financial regulation.

Ess em aych.

The Fake Shemp

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I don't speak Yiddish.
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Human Snorenado

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:lol

fucking dems
yar

Mandark

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Ah ha.  Warren Buffet was lobbying for an exemption in the bill, which has been tossed out.

Where's his company, Berkshire Hathaway, based?  I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

Phoenix Dark

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Sounds like McConnel got his caucus to agree to vote no on the first attempt, but all bets are off after that. We'll see.

If all the votes end like this, you gotta wonder what's the point in spending months working on something you're going to vote against for political reasons. Corker spent a lot of time working with Warner and Dodd on this. He may not agree with everything in the bill, but that's how legislation fucking works.
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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Looks like its gonna go to filibuster, and it looks like the Dems are just going to let it happen and which moderate Pubs break rank first.

good policy says I.

Van Cruncheon

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Ah ha.  Warren Buffet was lobbying for an exemption in the bill, which has been tossed out.

Where's his company, Berkshire Hathaway, based?  I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

nebras- ooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
duc

Brehvolution

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Ah ha.  Warren Buffet was lobbying for an exemption in the bill, which has been tossed out.

Where's his company, Berkshire Hathaway, based?  I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

Oh my. They are making these people put their money where their mouth is and am I supposed to feel bad about it? Wouldn't this provision,if passed, basically grandfather up to $600 TRILLION in derivatives? I'm glad it got voted out.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 10:17:27 PM by Zero Hero »
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Mandark

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My new favorite word.

If the political climate stays anywhere near what it's been (and it will) I'm gonna run this baby into the ground.

Phoenix Dark

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No worries, I'm sure the tea partiers who take over in November will promise term limit reform to ensure this insanity is short lived

spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Oblivion

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I'm curious, is there any tangible difference between say, hiring a dirty messican for some factory work at $3/hr in California, compared to outsourcing the same job at the same rate to somewhere in China/Honduras/Bangladesh? I ask cause it seems that the same people (or at the very least, many I've spoken to) that complain that they hate illegals cause they "steal their jerbs!" seem to have little issue with the latter. I'm sure I might be missing something here, but I don't see it. Is it one of those "if I can't see it in front of me, it's not actually happening!" cases?

brawndolicious

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As far as Joe Sixpack is concerned, there is a small tax of like 2.5% or something on imported goods that would benefit him/America in buying something made by foreign labor.  Of course, those goods are probably a little more expensive if they have to be shipped thousands of miles instead of made locally.

Human Snorenado

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Another thing about illegals is even if they're getting paid under the table, they're still buying groceries, gas and whatever and contributing to the economy here in that way.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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when they aren't intentionally driving their cars into grocery stores

:mccain :mccain :mccain
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Oops.
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The Fake Shemp

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That's not Obama ???
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[teabagger]Yeah it is![/teabagger]

I guess the guy who shot Malcom X was paroled today. That's where the picture was supposed to show up, but as you can see, that didn't happen.
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Human Snorenado

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I believe that the WaPo's sheet is showing, if you catch my drift.
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Phoenix Dark

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[youtube=560,345]Q5QD_6UtfFo[/youtube]
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Mandark

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Also:  My perspective as a police officer on this Arizona law.

I don't want to come down *too* hard on the law simply based upon the fact that I'm a police officer in Canada, and I don't know the environment of policing in southern states with a high hispanic population.  I don't know the community, I don't know the dynamics.

But my instinct is simply that I don't see what "reasonable" suspicion might entail to lead an officer to think that someone is an illegal OTHER than that which leads to unacceptable racial profiling.

MAYBE situations through talking with witnesses where they can provide evidence that someone is an illegal, or through talking with an individual in the course of regular duties where they make statements that provide the officer with "reasonable suspicion" but other than that....

It's not even like, for example, a drug investigation, where you can profile someone based upon their actions, gestures, clothing, smell, or behaviour to articulate a reasonable suspicion or belief of criminal activity.  As someone who supports and defends the law enforcement community generally, this is a bad law that will almost certainly lead to the potential for unacceptable racial profiling, even by good officers.

Generally, I'm really skeptical of any program that burdens law enforcement officers with making snap determinations of guilt and innocence, of whether someone is a criminal or just going about their daily business.  It's why I don't like the idea of the ASBO policy in the UK, and at the extreme end why I don't think COIN is all it's cracked up to be.

A case like this, where the bulk of the cops -- who have been given terribly vague guidelines of what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" -- will be from a different ethnic community from the bulk of the offenders is only going to encourage harassment on a racial basis and exacerbate social division and mistrust.  Driving a community away from cooperation with the police (let alone other types of civic involvement) is a Very Bad Thing and should be treated like a serious concern.

On top of all this, racial profiling is always going to get fucked up, especially in countries with diverse populations.  When everyone was paranoid after the London bombings, it was a Brazilian who paid for it.  I have a half-Thai friend with a Hebrew name who's swarthy enough that when he was arrested for a public noise violation in New Mexico the local authorities figured him for an Arab and were ready to start deportation procedures, even though he's at least third-generation American.

edit:  and to drunkenly paraphrase someone else I read on this subject in the past couple days:  Any law that might result in the regular demand by law enforcement in the United States of America of "papers, please" is an awful, horrible law.

I wonder where you might have read that!

AdmiralViscen

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Even worse is that if the cops want to exercise discretion in dealing with possible illegals, they are opening themselves up to lawsuits from people who don't know shit about shit. Who the hell came up with that provision?

Phoenix Dark

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Even worse is that if the cops want to exercise discretion in dealing with possible illegals, they are opening themselves up to lawsuits from people who don't know shit about shit. Who the hell came up with that provision?

Probably the same people who came up with the idea of plastering dumb people's youtube/twitter accounts on news channels in order to "connect" with the regular folk. Democracy is cool and everything, but I don't want to hear what Joe Six Pack has to say.



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Tristam

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I'm curious, is there any tangible difference between say, hiring a dirty messican for some factory work at $3/hr in California, compared to outsourcing the same job at the same rate to somewhere in China/Honduras/Bangladesh? I ask cause it seems that the same people (or at the very least, many I've spoken to) that complain that they hate illegals cause they "steal their jerbs!" seem to have little issue with the latter. I'm sure I might be missing something here, but I don't see it. Is it one of those "if I can't see it in front of me, it's not actually happening!" cases?

Really? Companies who outsource much of their labor have been criticized for some time, whereas companies who don't (or claim they don't) are proud to point it out: Made in America, by Americans.

It was mumbling and grumbling rather than a furor but criticism nonetheless.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 08:56:24 AM by Tristam »

Stoney Mason

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Quote
Fox News has learned that Charlie Crist has decided and plans to announce that he is running as an Independent for the U.S. Senate.

http://twitter.com/foxnewspolitics/status/13015315932

Brehvolution

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Yes!!
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Stoney Mason

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Yes!!

The Democrat still ain't going to win probably.

I'll also eat crow and admit I'm surprised that it actually came down to this. I under estimated Rubio and the appeal of this tea party brand of conservatism that is sweeping conservative circles.

Phoenix Dark

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Rubio is being investigated by the feds too. Crist could win, or spoil things enough for Meeks
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Dickie Dee

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What's the legality of people being able to sue if cops don't enforce the Alabama law. I've never heard of anything like that.
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Phoenix Dark

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i thought obamacare was gonna fix that :smug
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Van Cruncheon

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well, we GOT romneycare

thanks, NOBAMA, your appeasement costs us all
duc

Brehvolution

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The premiums for my wife's work health insurance went up 24% today.  The system works!

:piss Republicans :piss2

Cancel it and hoard chickens til 2014 just in case.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 09:52:01 PM by Zero Hero »
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Phoenix Dark

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Chickens and wine (with ice cubes of course)
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Mandark

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Quote from: George Will
Non-Hispanic Arizonans of all sorts live congenially with all sorts of persons of Hispanic descent. These include some whose ancestors got to Arizona before statehood — some even before it was a territory. They were in America before most Americans’ ancestors arrived. Arizonans should not be judged disdainfully and from a distance by people whose closest contacts with Hispanics are with fine men and women who trim their lawns and put plates in front of them at restaurants, not with illegal immigrants passing through their back yards at 3 a.m.

Thank God for the intellectual wing of American conservatism, amirite?

Phoenix Dark

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Good lord, someone buy him a few laptops, maybe that will help
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brawndolicious

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The funniest thing about that law is that about half of illegal immigrants are overstaying their work/student visa, so they were here legally for some time and it's reasonable to assume that their "suspicious" behavior doesn't increase after their legal status changes.  No matter how much you try to narrow down the profile, it's essentially a complete shot in the fucking dark.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 02:23:45 AM by am nintenho »

Brehvolution

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am nintenho, show me your papers. :smug
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The Fake Shemp

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Yeah! This is America, we speak English! If you want to live here, learn it!
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Brehvolution

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©ZH


Phoenix Dark

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Stewart: what is he doing that's tyrannical
Blackdude: he's setting the stage for a power grab
Stewart: how?
Blackdude: he's setting the stage for a power grab
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CajoleJuice

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I am embarrassed for that dude.
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The Fake Shemp

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Stewart was being kind of a dick. :lol

"I'm sorry, I was just quoting the title of the book."

"No, it's a fact. It's a number. It's larger."

:rofl
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The Fake Shemp

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"I'm just using factcheck dot org." :lol
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The Fake Shemp

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Stewart is making a mockery of this guy. Poor dude, he should have gone on Glenn Beck.
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