"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[MrAngryFace]

At least hes calling them out on their stupid crap like pledges n shit. God I hate the GOP.

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44443363#44443363

[Human Snorenado]

It's never going to pass, so who the fuck cares?  If I were Obama, I would have used this speech as an opportunity to publicly berate Republicans (and their rugged individualist Libertopian enablers, of course) as the bunch of half-bright lying shitburgers they really are.  Then I would resign, tell the country to eat a bag of dicks and fix it's own shit, and probably move to The Isle of Man or another actual first world country.  I seriously don't understand why anyone wants that fucking job.

[Consul]

It's never going to pass, so who the fuck cares?  If I were Obama, I would have used this speech as an opportunity to publicly berate Republicans (and their rugged individualist Libertopian enablers, of course) as the bunch of half-bright lying shitburgers they really are.  Then I would resign, tell the country to eat a bag of dicks and fix it's own shit, and probably move to The Isle of Man or another actual first world country.  I seriously don't understand why anyone wants that fucking job.

hahaha +1

[MrAngryFace]

The speech is kinda doing that much at least- I also like the stuff to prevent descrimination against jobless- that shits distinguished mentally-challenged

And just so you guys know im all about doing my part- I donated the first 3 seasons of Buffy on DVD to the local library today.

[Consul]

Honestly, I think he did a better job of "socking it to" the republicans than he ever has with this speech.  He really made it hard for republicans to weasel their way out of this one.  I will be surprised if this bill doesn't pass in some form.

I have never been a "radical" or anything but I am seriously starting to think that this country needs some kind of armed revolution/redistribution of wealth/mass euthanasia project to get back on track. Theres just too many dumb people who equate taxes with evil

[MrAngryFace]

Its more than I was expecting, then again the number attached to this effort is less than i'd probably want

[Phoenix Dark]

Good speech, but largely irrelevant considering

1) the bill will never be passed
2) if these are such good ideas, why weren't they implemented before when dems controlled both houses
3) it sounds like a smaller stimulus bill, and the public has already determined the stimulus did not work

Obama always gives good speeches, that's nothing to be surprised over. The problem is actually implemented his pie in the sky bullshit.

[MrAngryFace]

I think the administration knows this, but it was an opportunity to brow beat the GOP a bit and show that despite their claims during debates- the administration DOES give a shit about jobs and has solid specific ideas.

[Oblivion]

I know some of you have sworn oaths to never raise any taxes on anyone for as long as you live.  Now is not the time to carve out an exception and raise middle-class taxes, which is why you should pass this bill right away.

Glad he pointed that out.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Good speech, but largely irrelevant considering

1) the bill will never be passed
2) if these are such good ideas, why weren't they implemented before when dems controlled both houses
3) it sounds like a smaller stimulus bill, and the public has already determined the stimulus did not work

Obama always gives good speeches, that's nothing to be surprised over. The problem is actually implemented his pie in the sky bullshit.

A problem is that Obama has been bitch made at several instances, especially now more than ever.  Hell, for the tax cut extension, he practically co-opted Republican talking points.  Nothing will happen with this bill because there's no reason for any Republicans to be interested in the bill.  If it does get passed, it will be neutered of anything worthwhile and will just be largely cutting a subsidy check to some industry who won't produce the number of jobs it intended (that way Rush Limbaugh can say "haw haw, $500,000 spent per job").

If the economy will move, it will boil down to what is already in place.  Obama might as well just berate the Republicans because he should have long since given up his idea of being some post-partisan visionary who will miraculously bring two very divided parties together.

[Himu]

It's never going to pass, so who the fuck cares?  If I were Obama, I would have used this speech as an opportunity to publicly berate Republicans (and their rugged individualist Libertopian enablers, of course) as the bunch of half-bright lying shitburgers they really are.  Then I would resign, tell the country to eat a bag of dicks and fix it's own shit, and probably move to The Isle of Man or another actual first world country.  I seriously don't understand why anyone wants that fucking job.

racist

[Phoenix Dark]

[youtube=560,345]LoYCAACCNhk[/youtube]

[Oblivion]

What'd she say? I can't see the video.


Also, seems K-thug really likes the proposal:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/opinion/setting-their-hair-on-fire.html?_r=1&hp

[Phoenix Dark]

also notice how she said Bush left office with a 220b-something deficit, and Obama has increased it 10fold 

[Phoenix Dark]

First there were no terrorist attacks, now no bailouts. Damn, Bush's presidency is getting better and better

[Boogie]

And again, THE BAILOUTS HAPPENED BEFORE OBAMA

quiet with yer fax and yer learnin'

[Human Snorenado]

If the Republicans were smart, they'd give him everything he asked for and then when (shocker) the economy doesn't magically get better because we hired some people to fix some roads and schools and kept paying unemployment, they can just hang that around his neck too.

Fortunately, Republicans are anything but smart.

[Oblivion]

Someone on GAF suggested that the Dems should come out with some bill that mimics tax rates we had in the 80s, and call it the "Reagan tax plan" or something to that effect. Thought it was an amusing idea.

Incidentally, I was watching Martin Bashir's show yesterday, with Ezra Klein guest hosting, and one segment really stood out to me. Ezra goes on to talk about the legislation that Reagan passed, many that would cause him to be cast out of the GOP were he alive today. He spoke for quite a bit about it and followed it up by having the new RNC Chair Reince Preibus on to comment. What I thought was noteworthy was that Preibus didn't even ATTEMPT to dispute any of the stuff Ezra said about Reagan's record. He essentially ignored it entirely. You would think that there would be one or two ways a Republican would get around such inconvenient facts, but he didn't even try.


Sure, being able to turn the top tax rate back to 50% would have a snowball's chance in hell of passing, but it would be great just to see how the reactions would be from Republicans.

[Phoenix Dark]

If the Republicans were smart, they'd give him everything he asked for and then when (shocker) the economy doesn't magically get better because we hired some people to fix some roads and schools and kept paying unemployment, they can just hang that around his neck too.

Fortunately, Republicans are anything but smart.

I was thinking that last night. Mark Zandi has estimated the bill would take unemployment down 1% point, so from 9.1 to 8.1. Obviously if that happens Obama is probably a lock; Reagan won in 1984 in part because he argued that while unemployment wasn't where they wanted it to be, it was moving in the right direction (7.8 in October 84). Given the rosy predictions that surrounded the stimulus I don't buy it though; we might run into another recession instead.

Republicans will just gimp the bill, pass something, then let Obama declare victory ("see what we can do when we work together!") and doom his own campaign. He'll jump at the bait.

bring on Pres. Romney

[Human Snorenado]

Romney isn't going to get the nomination, Maurice.  Rick Perry can't say or do anything dumb enough to drive off Republican primary voters.

[Himu]

How can I make sure Perry does not win as a native Texan?

[Phoenix Dark]

Romney isn't going to get the nomination, Maurice.  Rick Perry can't say or do anything dumb enough to drive off Republican primary voters.

I no longer believe that, after seeing Perry call social security a massive lie that has hurt the country on national television.

[Human Snorenado]

Romney isn't going to get the nomination, Maurice.  Rick Perry can't say or do anything dumb enough to drive off Republican primary voters.

I no longer believe that, after seeing Perry call social security a massive lie that has hurt the country on national television.

All it will take is for Obama to mildly suggest that social security is kind of ok and Perry will be a lock.  Obama could come out against boy-fucking tomorrow and I'm convinced the next Tea Party rally would have a public demonstration of the joys of boy-fucking.  Kind of like the Catholic church, but with slightly less funny hats and no guilt.

[Himu]

Romney isn't going to get the nomination, Maurice.  Rick Perry can't say or do anything dumb enough to drive off Republican primary voters.

I no longer believe that, after seeing Perry call social security a massive lie that has hurt the country on national television.

Well, here's the thing. He said he'd rid of social security pre-election for his current governor term and guess what? He was still elected. You go into this assuming republicans give a shit.

[Phoenix Dark]

Dunno bro. Perry is gonna dominate the south; can't wait to hear what dog whistles he comes up for Mormonism down there. But when the race moves to Florida and the rest of the country, I can't see Perry getting away with apparently wanting to dismantle social security

[youtube=560,345]PVyW2c2NzyE[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]dsx2vdn7gpY[/youtube]

[Oblivion]

Yeah, going after SS/Medicare makes you a stronger Republican candidate, not a weaker one. It's NOT attacking those things that could get you in trouble (see: Newt*)

*yes, Newt's numbers were already abysmal, but they got even worse after his remarks about Ryan's plan being 'radical'.

[Cheebo]

Romney still PD? lol. You always gravitate to the Hillary types. Tea Partier's don't care that Ricky called SS a ponzi scam. They agree with him. I welcome our future President Rick Perry.

[Phoenix Dark]

But will they agree with him in Florida and other big prize states? Perry might not even win a Texas primary

[Cheebo]

Hardcore republicans dominate primaries. You are talking about a party who in blue states nominated Christine O'Donnel and Sharon Angle. He overwhelmingly crushed the "moderate" Kay Bailey Hutchinson who had the support of the Bushs, Cheney, Karl Rove, etc just last year.

You have to look at this as a GOP primary voter.

[Phoenix Dark]

I agreed with you until two nights ago when he doubled down on dismantling SS.  Like I said, Perry will run very strong.

Look at these primary dates sir
http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-republican-primary-schedule/

I see a lot of moderate states like NH where Romney's message will work, and states where SS scare tactics will hit home. And super tuesday:

March 6th (Super Tuesday): Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Colorado caucuses, Idaho GOP caucuses, Minnesota Democratic caucuses

Admittedly Perry could open up a lead here. Mass and Vermont is definitely going to Roney, but I could see Perry winning everything else.

[Cheebo]

If it is a complete blowout in Iowa and he comes close to Romney in New Hampshire I think it's all over.

The GOP of 2010, even in rather blue states, completely ignored reasonable electable candidates to pick extreme tea party candidates sent to lose when they otherwise could have won.  I see nothing that shows the primary voters have suddenly started caring about electability in less than a year. Perry skyrocketing in the polls further confirms that.

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[Olivia Wilde Homo]

There are many x factors that nobody has any idea about that will be factored in come primary time.  We don't know anything yet.  Perry could flame out.  Remember when McCain was pretty much down and out in 2007?  Remember how Hillary's nomination was inevitable at this point in time and Obama was just a passing fancy?

I take that back.  If there is one thing I do know, it is that Ron Paul still doesn't stand a chance.

[Cheebo]

Is whatshisface who was convinced Ron Paul would win the 2008 primaries here still poke his head in this thread?

[Human Snorenado]

Oh for fucks sakes, who let Cheebs back in?

[Cheebo]

Can't have a presidential election around here without my less than stellar wannabe Chris Matthews style analysis. PD can't carry that torch alone.

[Human Snorenado]

Can't have a presidential election around here without my less than stellar wannabe Chris Matthews style analysis. PD can't carry that torch alone.

Yeah, but I can avoid that bullshit by not watching fucking cable news in my day to day life, I don't want to have to deal with you fuckwads linking politico pieces non-stop and jabbering about the Overton window like you know anything on here.  Ugh.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

God Chris Matthews is an annoying fuck.  In fact, any cable news host that practically screams their talking points is a fuck.

[Cheebo]

I was glued to MSNBC in the 08 election.  I only ever tune in for the debates now. MSNBC's schedule nowadays looks pretty terrible anyway. I mean they have Al Sharpton in prime time now, come on.

[Phoenix Dark]

Sharpton can't get through a sentence without stuttering and stumbling to oblivion, it's impossible to listen to the man talk; plus he never says anything interesting, I don't "get" what he contributes. I watched some of the roundtable discussion on Obama's speech, as well as the republican debate, and he contributed nothing to either topic.

Maddow is awesome, and I saw my favorite jew Ezra Klein hosting for her a couple days ago. He did surprisingly well. But yea, outside of them and Matthews, MSNBC is horrible

[Cheebo]

You are probably obsessed with Current TV nowadays. 

[Phoenix Dark]

I haven't seen or heard a second of He Who Must Not Be Named since he left MSNBC, thank god

[Human Snorenado]

Chris Matthews is everything that's wrong with "journalism" and Washington.  Insular, stupid and loud.  Maybe he was a good person once but these days he's just another beltway idiot.  The fact that either of you like him says a lot about you.

[benjipwns]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

You know if you just look at it in practical terms, which has destroyed and ended the life of more people? Terrorism attack here in America or HIV/AIDS? In the last twenty years, fifteen to twenty years, we’ve had maybe three terrorist attacks on our soil with a little over 5,000 people regrettably losing their lives. In the same time frame, there have been hundreds of thousands who have died because of having AIDS. So which one’s the biggest threat? And you know, every day our young people, adults too, but especially our young people, are bombarded at school, in movies, in music, on TV, in the mall, in magazines, they’re bombarded with ‘homosexuality is normal and natural.’ It’s something they have to deal with every day. Fortunately we don’t have to deal with a terrorist attack every day, and that’s what I mean. It’s more dangerous, and yes I think that it’s also more dangerous because it will tear down the moral fiber of this nation. We were founded as a nation upon the principles of religion and morality, if we take those out from under our society we will lose what has made us a great nation, we will no longer be a virtuous people, which we see happening already. And without virtue this nation will not survive.

[Oblivion]

Chris Matthews is everything that's wrong with "journalism" and Washington.  Insular, stupid and loud.  Maybe he was a good person once but these days he's just another beltway idiot.  The fact that either of you like him says a lot about you.

Really? Isn't it the opposite? I never saw his show during the Bush years, but from what I've read, he used to be a pretty big water carrier for Bush and the Iraq War (media matters gave him their misinformation leader of the year award for 2005, I believe). But he seems a lot more level headed nowadays.

Besides, he does a great job owning right wingers from time to time:

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Mandark]

Matthews?  Guy is fuckin awful.

On another topic, http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/94722/still-not-done-arguing-yet

Magical-thinking librul wannabe martyrs

[Cheebo]

I just watched some clips of Keith Olbermann's new show for the first time out of curiosity. Michael Moore and the Daily Kos guy are on like every single episode it looks like lol. Really the only "librul" show I can stand watching anymore is Real Time and even then its mostly for the guests.

[Human Snorenado]

I don't see how anyone takes S&P seriously, considering that they consistently rated those toxic mortgage assets (you remember those, right?  the ones that were a product of magical libertopian thinking, and destroyed the economy a couple years ago) as AAA right up until the end.  There's only two possibilities when it comes to the ratings agencies- they're either in the pockets of the financial markets, or they're completely distinguished mentally-challenged and not qualified to do basic math, much less their jobs.  Neither option is particularly comforting.

[Barry Egan]

Liberal critics of Obama, just like conservative critics of Republican presidents, generally want both maximal partisan conflict and maximal legislative achievement. In the real world, those two things are often at odds. Hence the allure of magical thinking.

The forum Icons should create a bot that auto-posts this as a response whenever it detects Oblivion posting about politics.

[Human Snorenado]

I just think they're assholes, and should have been shot in mid 2008 along with everyone else involved with the housing crisis.  I really don't have an "agenda" beyond that... I think I've been fairly consistent in my interpretation and criticisms of everything that happened as a result of our Excellent Adventure in Wild West Financial Instruments.  But hey, I'm sure fewer regulations would have prevented this from happening.  Somehow.  Probably involves a double rainbow and unicorns.

[benjipwns]

I don't see how anyone takes S&P seriously, considering that they consistently rated those toxic mortgage assets as AAA right up until the end.  There's only two possibilities when it comes to the ratings agencies- they're either in the pockets of the financial markets, or they're completely distinguished mentally-challenged and not qualified to do basic math, much less their jobs.  Neither option is particularly comforting.

Consider this about the ratings agencies. They underrated everything in sight for decades. One of them, merely one, has got around to downgrading the government which would fail every GAAP audit that exists. So they could be underrating everything because of their contacts in and fear of both government and other agencies.

And the sad part, is they're the best we have, I mean unless you trust the government to properly evaluate and audit its own financial situation.

What he said was literally incorrect - a Ponzi scheme is not structured that way

I don't know, requiring new cons to supply the funds for earlier entries?

I seem to think Flemming more or less established it's an outright Ponzi Scheme. But with the backing of the state.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

by that criteria, any sort of progressive taxation is too.

oh, that must be why conservatives hate it so damn much.

[Phoenix Dark]

Matthews?  Guy is fuckin awful.

On another topic, http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/94722/still-not-done-arguing-yet

Magical-thinking librul wannabe martyrs

Usually I like his stuff, but that article is stupid - as is Western's. The fact remains that Obama had enough votes to pass much of his recent jobs pivot legislation in 09 and even in 2010 after Scott Brown won Kennedy's seat. The problem is that the administration felt the stimulus addressed the economy enough, seemed to think the fed would address unemployment, and thus moved on to other things (mainly healthcare and a weak financial regulation bill).

Soaring rhetoric doesn't pass bills, true. Obama isn't a magical being, etc. But it's also true that one of a president's most effective tools is the bully pulpit, and for a president of Obama's oratory caliber he has used this very poorly. The WH didn't trot him out to stump for the stimulus, health care, or the debt ceiling until it was too late. It took them until last week to change this, when Obama went out to stump for his doomed jobs bill right out the gate. Now, as I already said, I'm not suggesting effective use of the bully pulpit would have made legislating a walk in the park. But it's a tool best used to set your own narrative and fight for it.

At the end of the day Obama wasted the most potentially prolific period of his presidency letting Max Baucus beg Olympia Snowe for votes. And if he doesn't get re-elected we'll be able to look at 09 as not only a massive wasted opportunity, but the end of what turned out to be the most disappointing presidency in decades.

[Mandark]

Consider this about the ratings agencies. They underrated everything in sight for decades. One of them, merely one, has got around to downgrading the government which would fail every GAAP audit that exists. So they could be underrating everything because of their contacts in and fear of both government and other agencies.

And the sad part, is they're the best we have, I mean unless you trust the government to properly evaluate and audit its own financial situation.

lolwut

As a libertarian, surely you realize the distributed wisdom of the bond market represents the "best we have" better than any one entity, even one so scrupulous and reliable as S&P.  It's funny how emphatically investors have rejected S&P's assessment of the situation.

Lots of people bitch about government spending and use the language of insolvency when doing so, but how many people are willing to bet heavily against federally issued debt?  More to the point, how are their portfolios looking right about now?



PD:  oh you so dumb, you cutie

[Oblivion]

or the S&P Credit downgrade report - they repeatedly expressed that they expected entitlement reform that didn't happen.

They also mentioned the lack of coming up with revenues as reason for the downgrade.

Liberal critics of Obama, just like conservative critics of Republican presidents, generally want both maximal partisan conflict and maximal legislative achievement. In the real world, those two things are often at odds. Hence the allure of magical thinking.

The forum Icons should create a bot that auto-posts this as a response whenever it detects Oblivion posting about politics.

 

Go drink some paint thinner.

[AdmiralViscen]

They repeatedly stated even more that all this was not so urgent that your guys should have threatened to leave their debtors unpaid unless a deal was reached

[AdmiralViscen]

From their statement

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.


The US was on a worse debt trajectory months ago than it is after the debt deal. A major reason for s&ps downgrade now rather than months ago was that despite future debt being reduced, risk of default for debtors is now higher because 40% of the government has an open disregard for making its payments in a responsible way.

[AdmiralViscen]

Right, so increased risk of default, as a result of major elements of government promoting the idea of default, has nothing to do with recommendations for those investing in that entity.

The number 1 difference between s&p's outlook earlier this year, and now, was the additional risk brought oon by the brinkmanship game. After that, revenues and entitlement cuts seem to be viewed equally. The fact that negotiations produced zero of the former and only some of the latter again ndicates that your guys are the problem.

Assuming you care aout s&ps outlook

[AdmiralViscen]

We were put under review while the game was in progress. Obviously markets were unsettled by it before the iffy results were known. If my wife and i went to the bank for a loan and screamed at each other over whether we really wanted to pay the loan, and then we decided ok we will pay the loan, would the banker take that under consideration?

S&p spoke of three problems. you are focusing on one, because the other two are directly 100% the right's fault. Also revenue increases would solve the entitlement problem with no cuts so even the problem you do acknowledge is partially the fault of the right. There are plenty of places to cut spending, like military adventures, before we tell people to retire at 70

[Cheebo]

There is another debate tonight...? That seems oddly quick. There was one just last week.