"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Positive Touch]

They truly are unrelated polarizing issues, but don't try to convince anyone of that in a heated debate.

yeah its a lot more fun to just belittle them until they stop talking to you forever

[Great Rumbler]

So if nothing else you gotta give credit to him for sticking to his guns, even if it means the death of a friend. 

also lol isn't ron paul pretty rich?  he couldn't cough up enough to save his friend?  or to pay him enough so the guy could afford insurance in the first place?

Despite Paul’s insistence that charity is the appropriate response to America’s uninsured crisis, Snyder’s friends raised $34,870.53, far short of the $400,000 necessary to pay off his bills. View a screen shot below

That in itself was probably more than Ron Paul's campaign coffers accumulated within the past ten years.

The article specifically mentions that the guy who died was integral in the Paul campaign pulling in $35 million

[MrAngryFace]

I dont really have a solid position on the death penalty. EXCEPT that I do know that people shouldnt be excited about it, as is often the case with conservatives. I think depending on the context a persons stance on the death penalty can change- and i've just never been in the position to feel either way about it.

Its easier with other controversial issues like say abortion where I can say with certainty that I dont feel I even have a say when a woman choses to do it.

Edit for makingsensity

[Oblivion]

I don't have a moral problem with the death penalty, but for me it's more of a practical issue.

If you're going to kill someone, there should be 0% doubt that the person in question is guilty. The problem as we've seen is that many innocent people are wrongly executed.

[Himu]

It's not that I don't think some people deserve to die in this world, it's that I don't think the government has the right to judge whether someone should die or not unless the crimes are crimes against humanity (ie, the recent drug cartel incidents in Mexico, fuck putting those guys in jail but fuck using the death penalty too. mobilize an army)

Also, I am a natural skeptic. If someone is innocent, it would be dreadful for them to be executed and for me, one innocent being executed is one too many.

In Texas for example, Rick Perry executed an innocent man and tried to cover it up. The whole thing is suspect and the opposite of humane -- which many death penalty advocates purport death by execution being: humane justification.

In reality, any time I see an execution push, it reeks of bloodbath and blood lust more so than the multi-definable word "justice", which more often than not, is only a means of "justifying" your views over someone else, and in this case, a human life.

TLDR; death penalty is a vapid, hypocritical justification of an age old solution. it is inhumane, and against the virtue of democracy. Call me a hippie but I look at other first world countries, and they don't support the death penalty. It just feels backwards. Our prisons need reform, THAT should be the issue, not the death penalty.

[AdmiralViscen]

So if nothing else you gotta give credit to him for sticking to his guns, even if it means the death of a friend. 

also lol isn't ron paul pretty rich?  he couldn't cough up enough to save his friend?  or to pay him enough so the guy could afford insurance in the first place?

Despite Paul’s insistence that charity is the appropriate response to America’s uninsured crisis, Snyder’s friends raised $34,870.53, far short of the $400,000 necessary to pay off his bills. View a screen shot below

That in itself was probably more than Ron Paul's campaign coffers accumulated within the past ten years.

 with an situation so sympathetic it is shocking that it did not draw charity far in excess of the actual costs. There is no government solution.

[AdmiralViscen]

MAF -- not an attack, I'm wondering -- if you're anti death penalty, do you not think there are people who deserve to die in this world?

Or do you just feel the risk of innocent life lost is too much? Wouldn't that same falsely tried person suffer more with life in prison?

Edit: Himu, I see you're anti as well feel free to jump in on that.

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf

[Mupepe]

Whoa. Didn't mean to start a debate in here. Although I am pro death penalty and pro choice I hope no one seriously thought I was relating the two issues. 

[Phoenix Dark]

So it sounds like none of the "jobs act" will be passed. Horay for bipartisanship

[MrAngryFace]

It's all dem regulations....despite there being more regulations in the 90s.....it's all dem TAXES...despite tax rates already being really low.

[Phoenix Dark]

lowest in 60 years

[MrAngryFace]

Doesn't matter mericans unhappy mericans vote ANYONE into office to send a message that deems sux and they want at least 4 years of even more dysfunctional govt

[Phoenix Dark]

Bachmann is truly the president America deserves

[MrAngryFace]

I'm starting to think that too, were distinguished mentally-challenged, give us distinguished mentally-challenged leaders

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The jobs bill was really a litmus test to see how effective Obama's leadership is since this is the hardest he has pressed for anything since maybe early 2010.  We'll see what happens.

Also, I'm anti-death penalty and pro choice.  Well, I'm more pro abortion than pro choice - I don't think we abort enough babies and the government should do everything in its power to make the abortion process as seamless as possible.  As I said a few posts up, the death penalty is banned in my state with virtually no chance of that changing.  Even for someone who did the most vile, extreme shit committed.  In that case, I imagine it could be a boon for psychologists to study.  I think the death penalty is a feel good measure so people think that justice has been served for killing a distinguished black fellow.

[Himu]

So it sounds like none of the "jobs act" will be passed. Horay for bipartisanship

Why didn't the administration go for this when the dens had the house?

[Mupepe]

I think qualifying cases for the death penalty is way too lenient. 1St degree murder? Fuck no. Life in jail. Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein or Gadhaffi? Kill em. They'd just cause too much trouble alive and captive.  Not to mention I believe they deserve it.

[Positive Touch]

hey i'd love to see douchbags get killed too.  thing is, there's just way to many cases where an innocent person is killed because of legal system fuckery.  there's no real way to safeguard against all the potentional holes in our system, so the death penalty has got to go.

[Mupepe]

That's I dont support its current form. Im talking about people who flaunt their crime in front of the whole world with no remorse.  People who create suffering on a massive scale. And I'm not saying I'll root for them to die or feel good. I just won't bat an eye if it happens.

[Mupepe]

Wait let me point out my hypocrisy. I cheered when bin laden died.

[Boogie]

I'm death penalty ambivalent, and probably the closest this board has to someone anti-abortion other than JayDub.

[Himu]

I think there's a difference between Bin Ladin and some of the criminals on death row.

[Boogie]

As for the discussion regarding murder vs. serial killers/genocide/terrorism, etc, I think Eddie Izzard put it best:

[youtube=560,345]BFtkJd8w5UQ[/youtube]

[Phoenix Dark]

I don't support the death penalty, and while I didn't cheer Bin Laden's death I was certainly glad he was brought to justice. Personally I would have loved for him to have been taken alive and given a fair trial for all to see, but I understand why the administration didn't take him alive.

[Human Snorenado]

Wait let me point out my hypocrisy. I cheered when bin laden died.

I got hammered, smoked cigars and got laid. I partied like a motherfucker that day.

One more relative out of the line of succession, huh?

[Positive Touch]

Wait let me point out my hypocrisy. I cheered when bin laden died.

I got hammered, smoked cigars and got laid. I partied like a motherfucker that day.

i plan on doing that when dick cheney goes

[Positive Touch]

do you plan on focusing on a specific area of policy?

[Phoenix Dark]

I doubt it. Go into business if you want to get a job

[Positive Touch]

wrong.  there's plenty of good opportunities out there, if you go into the right area of specialization.  my fiancees specializing in environmental public policy and a great high-job is basically guaranteed.

[Oblivion]

Here's a follow up on that story about Ron Paul's campaign manager dying from lack of health insurance:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/09/15/320114/obamacare-ron-paul-staffer/

Apparently, the dude couldn't get health insurance cause of pre-existing conditions.

[Human Snorenado]

The Market has spoken- the lives of Libertarians are worthless!

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#44544050

EXOTIC SNAKE IMPORT REGS KILLING ECONOMY! SAVE US CONGRESS!!!

[Great Rumbler]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#44544050

EXOTIC SNAKE IMPORT REGS KILLING ECONOMY! SAVE US CONGRESS!!!

Why is this real life? Why isn't this from The Onion? 

[Himu]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/15/us-supreme-court-halts-texas-execution-convicted-murderer/%20%20?test=latestnews

holy poop

[Human Snorenado]

Maybe they'll save the most likely innocent dude about to get killed in Georgia.

[Oblivion]

From something awful. Tea Partiers after finding out someone doesn't have health insurance:

[Positive Touch]

 

[Brehvolution]

 

[MrAngryFace]

So wrong, but also true

[TakingBackSunday]

I just watched some 2008 Obama campaign videos.  I'm sorry, there's no way he loses 2012.  Let's look at this:

-Improved health care
-Out of Iraq
-Success in Libya
-Jobs bill
-Bin Laden Death mostly orchestrated by him

The economy is shit because of Bush, and it would be getting better if not for an awful republican congress.  Obama wins over Perry.

[Phoenix Dark]

If Perry gets the nom, sure. But if it's Romney, in late November 2012 get ready for Fox News to wonder why the mainstream media isn't focusing on the diversity angle of President-elect Romney's victory, being a Mormon and all. Is it because he's white? More after the break!

[MrAngryFace]

aww yeah stickin it to the orange dudes crappy speech

[Cheebo]

I just watched some 2008 Obama campaign videos.  I'm sorry, there's no way he loses 2012.  Let's look at this:

-Improved health careThe public at large doesn't think so, they think it did the opposite. Even though they are wrong. "Obamacare" is a net negative for Obama.
-Out of IraqThe public doesn't care about foreign policy with how horrible the economy is. It isn't an important issue at all in this election
-Success in LibyaSee Iraq
-Jobs billThe one he proposed? Yeah he can campaign on that
-Bin Laden Death mostly orchestrated by himSee Iraq

The economy is shit because of Bush, and it would be getting better if not for an awful republican congress.  Obama wins over Perry.

I only see one of those you listed being something useful to campaign on.

[MrAngryFace]

Its really all about perception- angry voters have very little sense; see 2010 where they voted in a bunch of distinguished mentally-challenged fellows that eithe obstruct, or destroy middle class opportunities.

[Cheebo]

No undecided voter is going to dwell on Libya or Osama as a deciding factor.

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2011/09/26/110926ta_talk_surowiecki

[Mandark]

Starting tomorrow, Don't Ask Don't Tell will officially be dead, and gay Americans will be able to serve openly in the military.

[Phoenix Dark]

Thank You Based Lieberman

[AdmiralViscen]

And the day after, Washington, D.C. will become a pillar of salt

[Eric P]

lol

[Positive Touch]

stolen 4 facebook

[drew]

Starting tomorrow, Don't Ask Don't Tell will officially be dead, and gay Americans will be able to serve openly in the military.

and not a single fuck was given that day

[Van Cruncheon]

oh, i imagine many a fuck is given and received

[Oblivion]

Tea Party Rep. struggling to get by on a mere $400,000:

Tea party Rep. John Fleming (R-LA) used himself as an example Monday while arguing against President Barack Obama's plan to make sure millionaires pay about the same tax rate as the people that work for them.

"In my own case, I own LLCs," Fleming told MSNBC's Chris Jansing. "The income flows to my personal tax return and whatever is left over after taxes are paid, I feed my family on the one hand and on the other hand, I reinvest in my business."

"With all due respect, The Wall Street Journal estimated that your businesses, which I believe are Subway sandwich shops and UPS stores -- very successful -- brought you last year, over $6 million," Jansing noted.

"Yeah, that's before you pay 500 employees, you pay rent, you pay equipment and food," Fleming agreed. "Since my net income -- and again, that's the individual rate that I told you about -- the amount that I have to reinvest in my business and feed my family is more like $600,000 of that $6.3 million. And so by the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over to invest in new locations, upgrade my locations, buy more equipment."

"You do understand, Congressman, the average person out there making 40, 50, $60,000 a year, when they hear that you have $400,000 left over, it's not exactly a sympathetic position?" Jansing asked.

"Again, class warfares never created a job," Fleming replied. "That's people that will not get jobs. This is all about creating jobs. It's not about attacking people who make certain incomes. You know, in this country, most people feel that being successful in their businesses is a virtue, not a vice. And once we begin to identify it as a vice, this country is going down."

It wasn't clear if the numbers cited by Fleming included his $174,000 congressional salary.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

I want to see a liberal run with the class warfare baton, and point out that one side of the war has been reaming the other side for decades now.

[MrAngryFace]

Clean up the tax code for folks that own a subway

[Barry Egan]

Goodbye $5 foot longs  :'(

[MrAngryFace]

Thanks OBAMA

[Phoenix Dark]

Elizabeth Warren is already leading Scott Brown in MA 

from PPP

Elizabeth Warren: 46 (32)
Scott Brown (R-inc): 44 (47)
Undecided: (21)

[Human Snorenado]

Bye bye Senator "I drive a truck"