Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1830752 times)

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Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #780 on: February 04, 2009, 12:51:25 PM »
Cheney melting faces
Quote
Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.

In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.

And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans — and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team — understand.

“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.

Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”

Citing intelligence reports :teehee, Cheney said at least 61 of the inmates who were released from Guantanamo during the Bush administration — “that’s about 11 or 12 percent” — have “gone back into the business of being terrorists.”

Quote
The choice, he alleged, reflects a naive mindset among the new team in Washington: “The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected. Sometimes, that requires us to take actions that generate controversy. I’m not at all sure that that’s what the Obama administration believes.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18390.html

More plus video at link
010

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #781 on: February 04, 2009, 12:53:53 PM »
The stimulus bill is turning into a Grade A disaster for Obama and the DEMs. Durbin says there's not enough votes to get it through the Senate. Rasmussen polling shows a plurality now oppose it. And at least one Blue Dog is saying Obama told him to vote against it.

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #782 on: February 04, 2009, 01:12:27 PM »
Cheney is the most amazing (not in a good way) VP ever. I think in about 5 years or so when former Bushies start to write books, you will see how cunning he was.


AdmiralViscen

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #783 on: February 04, 2009, 05:15:02 PM »
I'm sure that Patraeus has gained more knowledge of actually keeping Iraq secure than any politician.  He's not the only expert, but he's the guy in charge.  If anything, Obama's actions just undermine Patraeus' authority and makes Iraqis even less impressed with the US and the other security forces in the country after Saddam.

what the fuck

The stimulus bill is turning into a Grade A disaster for Obama and the DEMs. Durbin says there's not enough votes to get it through the Senate. Rasmussen polling shows a plurality now oppose it. And at least one Blue Dog is saying Obama told him to vote against it**.

**the House version of the bill
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 05:17:34 PM by AdmiralViscen »

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #784 on: February 04, 2009, 05:34:52 PM »
Quote
Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”

indeed, so we must fight these evil anti-americans with all of our power

(arrests everyone who supported bush, has them tried and executed for crimes against humanity)
wtc

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #785 on: February 04, 2009, 07:26:10 PM »
Quote
FWD: FWD: FWD: 0. Hussein Soetoro Marxbama a MUSLIM!?!??! READ!

if that name were on the ballot I would have totally voted for him over the milquetoast Wall Street captive we appear to have elected  :'(
QED

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #786 on: February 04, 2009, 08:42:23 PM »
the milquetoast Wall Street captive

HE'S A SOCIALIST *is a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow, has no idea what socialism is, is so far right that he makes nixon look like a hippy*
wtc

patrickula

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #787 on: February 04, 2009, 11:18:40 PM »
Quote
Cheney said at least 61 of the inmates who were released from Guantanamo during the Bush administration — “that’s about 11 or 12 percent” — have “gone back into the business of being terrorists.”
Oh well in that case, we should keep them all locked up forever, just to be on the safe side.

Who cares if 90% are innocent.  I'd rather let nine innocents be wrongfully imprisoned for life than let one guilty man go free :american

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #788 on: February 04, 2009, 11:31:26 PM »
wait

how can they "return" to being terrorists if they were released for being found not terrorists


then again, being wrongly imprisoned for years may just create a few terrorists
wtc

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #789 on: February 05, 2009, 12:09:48 AM »
wait

how can they "return" to being terrorists if they were released for being found not terrorists


then again, being wrongly imprisoned for years may just create a few terrorists

The Washington Post ran a front page story on a US-run prison in Iraq a little while ago.  The story was that they've greatly improved the prison system from the early years of the war, but still have no way of even trying to judge guilt and at this point aren't even that interested in it.

They're more worried about former prisoners joining the fight (for revenge or whatever reasons) than they are about prosecuting the guilty.

It's kind of understandable but it's still absurd.

brawndolicious

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #790 on: February 05, 2009, 01:34:32 AM »
Some people would be held for months without being charged in Iraq.  Most Iraqis think that it's a pretty limp-wristed puppet government at this point.


TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #792 on: February 05, 2009, 12:50:06 PM »
Yeah, let's just do nothing, that'll fix it.
püp

y2kev

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #793 on: February 05, 2009, 12:51:25 PM »
The writer is president of the United States.


hahahaha
haw

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #794 on: February 05, 2009, 01:11:43 PM »
sd, why are you not supporting the president, you traitorous america hater

THIS IZ ARE CUNTRY, YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN GIT OUT
wtc

Rman

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #795 on: February 05, 2009, 01:22:48 PM »
Does am nintendho understand the chain of command?

CajoleJuice

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #796 on: February 05, 2009, 01:29:32 PM »
lol SD
AMC

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #797 on: February 05, 2009, 01:48:47 PM »
Yeah, let's just do nothing, that'll fix it.

No, you don't understand, we need TAX CUTS.  That will fix it, even though TAX CUTS are like a 1/3rd less effective as stimulus as opposed to spending.  DUR DUR DUR.
yar

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #798 on: February 05, 2009, 02:27:01 PM »
I want this thing passed almost just to get the thing over with, I am SOOOO tired of reading about it.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #799 on: February 05, 2009, 03:43:16 PM »
The CBO is now saying the stimulus bill is worse than doing nothing.  :lol

Van Cruncheon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #800 on: February 05, 2009, 03:50:00 PM »
cdo? collaboration data objects? collateralized debt obligations? link, tardo!
duc

Mandark

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If someone doesn't link their source, they probably don't want you to read it
« Reply #801 on: February 05, 2009, 04:01:31 PM »
cdo? collaboration data objects? collateralized debt obligations? link, tardo!

Oh, he's just lying about this.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #802 on: February 05, 2009, 04:03:16 PM »
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-plan-worse-than-doing-nothing/


And for those keeping score at home, SofLabor appointee Hilda Solis is the latest Obama cabinet tax cheat.

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #803 on: February 05, 2009, 04:11:20 PM »
Oh lawdy, bringing up a Redstate diarist?

Quote from: Mark Impomeni
When John McCain suspended his campaign on Wednesday and asked for a postponement of tonight’s debate, Barack Obama’s initial reaction was to hurl an insult, saying that he could handle the Wall Street bailout negotiations and debate at the same time. It was a foreshadowing of the juvenile, petty, and petulant candidate that would show up in Oxford, Mississippi tonight. McCain won this debate on points. But critically, he also won on temperament and likeability, allegedly Obama’s strong points. McCain got under Obama’s skin, and it showed.

That's some quality analysis right there, yep.

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #804 on: February 05, 2009, 04:13:38 PM »
bubububu the source.


Mandark

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Wait, weren't you kvetching about a Krugman endorsement recently?
« Reply #805 on: February 05, 2009, 04:15:04 PM »
Dude, I linked to the original source (the CBO report) two posts ago.  Keep up!

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #806 on: February 05, 2009, 04:15:59 PM »
lol sd
püp

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #807 on: February 05, 2009, 04:16:13 PM »
Oh lawdy, bringing up a Redstate diarist?

Quote from: Mark Impomeni
When John McCain suspended his campaign on Wednesday and asked for a postponement of tonight’s debate, Barack Obama’s initial reaction was to hurl an insult, saying that he could handle the Wall Street bailout negotiations and debate at the same time. It was a foreshadowing of the juvenile, petty, and petulant candidate that would show up in Oxford, Mississippi tonight. McCain won this debate on points. But critically, he also won on temperament and likeability, allegedly Obama’s strong points. McCain got under Obama’s skin, and it showed.

That's some quality analysis right there, yep.

wait, what?
010

siamesedreamer

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Mandark

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Tch tch.
« Reply #809 on: February 05, 2009, 04:18:22 PM »
sd, are you paying attention?

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #810 on: February 05, 2009, 04:22:26 PM »
links be flyin all over the place

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #811 on: February 05, 2009, 04:28:47 PM »
PROTIP:  If you're reading a news or opinion piece pegged on the phrase "A report released today by..." then you can probably just find the original document yourself.

Which saves you the trouble of correcting for someone's ideological filter, or the embarrassment of looking like a dope if you don't.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #812 on: February 05, 2009, 04:40:57 PM »
Whatever...

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #813 on: February 05, 2009, 04:51:00 PM »
Quote from: Doug Elmendorf
The negative effect of crowding out could be offset somewhat by a positive long-term effect on the economy of some provsions—such as funding for infrastructure spending, education programs, and investment incentives, which might increase economic output in the long run.

Wait, I remember someone getting super angry at education spending which should be totally kept out of the bill because it's not stimulus because...  something.

Whoever shall I listen to?

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #814 on: February 05, 2009, 04:51:07 PM »
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-plan-worse-than-doing-nothing/


And for those keeping score at home, SofLabor appointee Hilda Solis is the latest Obama cabinet tax cheat.

No, her husband is.  smh.
yar

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #815 on: February 05, 2009, 05:38:51 PM »
apparently in sd's world, CBO reports (and perhaps primary sources in general) do not actually exist as concrete entities in their own right, only as abstract base classes for others' interpretations
QED

Mandark

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I always figured sd lived in a cave
« Reply #816 on: February 05, 2009, 06:11:11 PM »
apparently in sd's world, CBO reports (and perhaps primary sources in general) do not actually exist as concrete entities in their own right, only as abstract base classes for others' interpretations

Perhaps they are Forms, existing merely as unreachable ideals, which can only be approximated in our world by Washington Times editorials.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #817 on: February 05, 2009, 06:16:21 PM »
God y'all are fucking crybabies.

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #818 on: February 05, 2009, 06:28:19 PM »
Quote from: siamesedreamer
Mom, they're being mean again!

 :violin


For a reasonable rate of $29.95 $19.95 (special 2G2D price!) a month, you can subscribe to the Mandark Kid Gloves Program, in which I don't ridicule you for your innumeracy, ahistoricality, or miscellaneous ignorance.

Perfect for the insecure poster who is unwilling to learn but unable to shake their forum habit!

We're looking to provide bonus content in the future, including a partner program that will buy emotional protection from some of the most illustrious Evilbore brands (malek, recursivelynumerable, and maybe even Prole!) or a Platinum Club in which we will go so far as to feign interest in and respect for your point of view.

Offer good for all currently unbanned EB non-lepers.  Act now!

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #819 on: February 05, 2009, 06:59:06 PM »
God y'all are fucking crybabies.

you've been spending this entire thread crying about every time obama clips his toenails
wtc

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #820 on: February 05, 2009, 07:18:48 PM »
I remember when sd liked obama, because of his health care plan lol

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #821 on: February 05, 2009, 07:20:45 PM »
lots of people liked Obama before he showed his true color(s)
010

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #822 on: February 05, 2009, 11:11:54 PM »
Obama is getting fiery and pissed off at Republicans. He got more partisan tonight than I have seen him get in quite a while:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Fired_up_again.html?showall

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #823 on: February 05, 2009, 11:18:52 PM »
wow he sounded pissed

sd, he's looking at you
püp

Brehvolution

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #824 on: February 06, 2009, 12:12:32 AM »
Obama is getting fiery and pissed off at Republicans. He got more partisan tonight than I have seen him get in quite a while:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Fired_up_again.html?showall


I find it comforting that our president isn't another mouth piece for big oil or some corporation push an agenda.

©ZH

Mandark

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Remember when his numbers were high enough to call them the "Bush tax cuts"?
« Reply #825 on: February 06, 2009, 12:19:10 AM »
Here is the Demint alternative plan I mentioned a while back.

Quote
1) Defuse the 2011 tax bomb: Stop tax increases set to hit the economy in 2011.

o Permanently repeal the alternative minimum tax once and for all;
o Permanently keep the capital gains and dividends taxes at 15 percent;
o Permanently kill the Death Tax for estates under $5 million, and cut the tax rate to 15 percent for those above;
o Permanently extend the $1,000-per-child tax credit; o Permanently repeal the marriage tax penalty;
o Permanently simplify itemized deductions to include only home mortgage interest and charitable contributions.

2) Long term, broad based tax cuts for American families and businesses.

o Lower top marginal income rates – the one paid by most of the small businesses that create new jobs – from 35 percent to 25 percent.
o Simplify the tax code to include only two other brackets, 15 and 10 percent. o Lower corporate tax rate as well, from 35 percent to 25 percent. The U.S. corporate tax rate is second highest among all industrialized nations, driving investment and jobs overseas. Lowering this key rate will unlock trillions of dollars to be invested in America instead of abroad.
o This is not only good economic policy, but a matter of fairness. No American family should be forced to pay the federal government more than 25 percent of the fruits of their hard labor.


Basically a series of permanent tax cuts as a response to a temporary problem, with no attached spending cuts or any estimate of how much it would cost.  Well, you expect some Republicans to push the Grover Norquist line.

But this was put up to a vote as an amendment to the stimulus bill, and 36 Republican senators voted for it with only 4 against.  That's insane.

I probably shouldn't have been surprised by this, but I kept hearing about how the Senate Republicans, because of statewide elections and the collegial nature of the chamber, would be more moderate than the House GOP.  So much for that.

TVC15

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #826 on: February 06, 2009, 12:27:06 AM »
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill, will everyone finally agree with me about how democracy doesn't work?
serge

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #827 on: February 06, 2009, 12:33:40 AM »
The sheer arrogance of this post is mind-boggling.

See, now you're gonna have to pay the full $29.95. :wag

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #828 on: February 06, 2009, 12:37:14 AM »
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill, will everyone finally agree with me about how democracy doesn't work?

"democracy and capitalism work because we're number one, so it's not their fault if we become number 10"
wtc

drew

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #829 on: February 06, 2009, 12:41:20 AM »
who the fuck is mandark?

must live in seattle

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #830 on: February 06, 2009, 12:42:25 AM »
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill...

I don't really feel like this bill will have any effect on the near term, whether it passes or fails. 3-4 years from now, it will have a substantial effect (both positive and negative).

drew

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #831 on: February 06, 2009, 12:50:51 AM »
iconfag

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #832 on: February 06, 2009, 12:53:49 AM »
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill...

I don't really feel like this bill will have any effect on the near term, whether it passes or fails. 3-4 years from now, it will have a substantial effect (both positive and negative).

Going by the CBO estimates and the Romer-Bernstein paper (warning: pdf) the opposite should actually be true.

Which makes sense.  Four years from now most of the money will have been spent, and we should be into a recovery period either way, meaning there's less potential difference in the outcomes.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #833 on: February 06, 2009, 01:12:37 AM »
Quote from: Doug Elmendorf
The negative effect of crowding out could be offset somewhat by a positive long-term effect on the economy of some provsions—such as funding for infrastructure spending, education programs, and investment incentives, which might increase economic output in the long run.

Wait, I remember someone getting super angry at education spending which should be totally kept out of the bill because it's not stimulus because...  something.

Whoever shall I listen to?

Making stuff up again I see.

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #834 on: February 06, 2009, 01:13:36 AM »
I would be happy to eat crow if this package can come close to creating 2 million jobs by the end of this calendar year (according to the CBO report).

I just don't see it happening.



Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #835 on: February 06, 2009, 01:26:31 AM »
TA:  It'll definitely create jobs, if only because so much money is being spent.

I think the sticking point is that when they say it will "create X jobs in year Y" they're comparing it to how many jobs would be created/destroyed without the stimulus.

What they're measuring is basically the space between the two lines on page 4 of the Romer-Bernstein paper.



sd: Come again?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #836 on: February 06, 2009, 01:28:09 AM »
Obama is getting fiery and pissed off at Republicans. He got more partisan tonight than I have seen him get in quite a while:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Fired_up_again.html?showall


:piss boohoo the republicans won't pass my pork pos, i'm too inexperienced to reach across the table and recognize tax cuts stimulate more than massive gov handouts :piss2

brb lemme give a speech to solve my problems
010

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #837 on: February 06, 2009, 01:29:04 AM »
shyeah mayne
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ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #838 on: February 06, 2009, 01:34:59 AM »

I think the sticking point is that when they say it will "create X jobs in year Y" they're comparing it to how many jobs would be created/destroyed without the stimulus.

So they are making a prediction that can not be proven true/false in hindsight. Because you can't have dual realities where both occurrences are true.

Pfah



It's funny that Obama is wasting his time demonizing Republicans (and leaning on what's left of the Moderates), when it's the people in his very own party that are keeping this bill held up. If he had a unified Dem party, he could pass it without the Republicans.


« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 01:38:32 AM by ToxicAdam »

Mandark

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Yes yes, totally the Dems' fault
« Reply #839 on: February 06, 2009, 01:51:36 AM »
Well, yeah.  You don't get control groups in macroeconomics, just counterfactuals.  That's why it's hard.

But they are giving specific numbers now that can be used as a basis for comparison later and being pretty open in their methodology.  So it's not like they'll be able to claim it worked just like they planned regardless of the final numbers.