Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1830960 times)

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siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #840 on: February 06, 2009, 08:32:28 AM »
Disagree. That's why they use the "save or create" phrasing. There's no way to actually measure how many jobs it actually does "save". Seems like they should have gone higher to something like 50 million jobs saved. Can't prove it otherwise. Then the the bill could be credited for saving the entire economy.


Jan: -598k
Dec revision: -524k to -577k
Nov revision: -584k to -597k

-1.72m last three months

Unemployment: 7.6%
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 08:39:49 AM by siamesedreamer »

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #841 on: February 06, 2009, 08:44:10 AM »
Given those cheery numbers, it only makes sense that we take more time to argue over less than 2% of this thing as opposed to doing something now.

Also, those 36 GOP Senators should be rounded up and shot.  I literally can't believe that, count me in the Mandark and Krugman camp.  Those idiots are actually trying to push this thing over the cliff.  All tax cuts and no spending?  Jesus fucking Christ, you have to be shitting me.
yar

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #842 on: February 06, 2009, 09:38:32 AM »
This should hopefully mark the end of the kumbaya horseshit bipartisan nonsense.  When one side of the aisle is so divorced from reality that they're arguing with a straight face that spending isn't stimulative, you can't work with them.  Can't legislate with them.  Can't do it!  I'm hoping that Frag wasn't right about Obama being too nice to Republicans but it sure was looking that way for a bit.  Good to hear him rip into these idiots now.

Honestly, they made several mistakes.  First was giving away too much to begin with.  Should have just opened up with half of the tax cuts they put in there so you can make a show of "giving ground" to the Republicans.  If you'll remember when the broad outlines of the package were made public, Republicans were all happy and surprised.  Then they figured since that was your opening offer, let's see what else we can wrangle.  The second big mistake was letting some easy targets make their way in and letting the Republicans get their bearings by bashing them.  Oh well.  Live and learn, Barry O.  Live and learn.
yar

Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #843 on: February 06, 2009, 10:07:19 AM »
If spending is stimulative then why is California going bankrupt?

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #844 on: February 06, 2009, 10:21:02 AM »
Because of George Bush and his cronies .. duh


Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #845 on: February 06, 2009, 10:54:42 AM »
Slightly off topic, but I got into an argument last night with a bleeding heart about environment issues. At the end of the argument he blammed all of China's envronment issues on china being "too libertarian."
I tried tellinh him that citizens in china have no right to object to their pallned economy or sue because of health reasons.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #846 on: February 06, 2009, 11:45:21 AM »
Slightly off topic, but I got into an argument last night with a bleeding heart about environment issues. At the end of the argument he blammed all of China's envronment issues on china being "too libertarian."
I tried tellinh him that citizens in china have no right to object to their pallned economy or sue because of health reasons.


One time, I talked to you

The Fake Shemp

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #847 on: February 06, 2009, 11:45:57 AM »
:lol
PSP

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #848 on: February 06, 2009, 01:30:04 PM »
If spending is stimulative then why is California going bankrupt?

oh well, it was a good run. mandark annihilated
010

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #849 on: February 06, 2009, 02:49:59 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...
yar

Fragamemnon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #850 on: February 06, 2009, 02:54:17 PM »
You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

amen to this. someone said it this morning that negotiating with republicans on this is sort of like trying to work out where to go for dinner when the other person won't eat anything but used tires and anthrax spores.

the first house and senate resolutions passed this year should have been an official declaration of the republican party as the 'enemy of the people'.
hex

Rman

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #851 on: February 06, 2009, 02:58:19 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...
Why do these people even run for office if they disdain government so much?  

*Sighs*

I'm just wondering why they are so emboldened after getting their ass kicked in the November elections.  I totally agree that Obama's reaching to other side was a failure as these guys are taking their marching orders from conservative talk radio booble heads.  

Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #852 on: February 06, 2009, 03:25:34 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

Wealth isnt created that way. But at least you understand that wealth does have to be created in the first place.

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #853 on: February 06, 2009, 03:28:43 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

Wealth isnt created that way. But at least you understand that wealth does have to be created in the first place.

You fatuous turd gobbler, wealth stands a FAR greater chance of being created by building an economy from the bottom up than it does from the top down.  Exhibit A:  The past 28 fucking years.
yar

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #854 on: February 06, 2009, 03:29:33 PM »
püp

Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #855 on: February 06, 2009, 03:30:10 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

Wealth isnt created that way. But at least you understand that wealth does have to be created in the first place.

You fatuous turd gobbler, wealth stands a FAR greater chance of being created by building an economy from the bottom up than it does from the top down.  Exhibit A:  The past 28 fucking years.

It worked out so great for all the planned economies in the 20th century.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #856 on: February 06, 2009, 03:32:18 PM »
Care to share?
püp

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #857 on: February 06, 2009, 03:34:05 PM »
Care to share?

Don't listen to him, he's a fucking idiot that doesn't realize that there was no middle class to speak of until the dreaded "socialist" laws and reforms of the devil FDR.
yar

Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #858 on: February 06, 2009, 03:35:09 PM »
Care to share?

Don't listen to him, he's a fucking idiot that doesn't realize that there was no middle class to speak of until the dreaded "socialist" laws and reforms of the devil FDR.

So where was the middle in the USSR? Go ahead and give me an example of a planned economy that lead to long term wealth.

Brehvolution

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #859 on: February 06, 2009, 03:38:30 PM »
Quote
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs.

Seriously?! With a straight face?!
©ZH

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #860 on: February 06, 2009, 03:40:49 PM »
Care to share?

Don't listen to him, he's a fucking idiot that doesn't realize that there was no middle class to speak of until the dreaded "socialist" laws and reforms of the devil FDR.

So where was the middle in the USSR? Go ahead and give me an example of a planned economy that lead to long term wealth.

Show ME where I'm advocating 100% govt. control of an economy?  Your proposing a false choice between two extremes without acknowledging that there IS a middle ground whatsoever.  Rigorous govt. oversight and regulation of the marketplace is pretty obviously necessary now, except for batshit insane people like you, John Thune who wants to make the stimulus nothing but tax cuts and Tom fucking Coburn.  The problem with you people is that you're just smart enough to speak.
yar

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #861 on: February 06, 2009, 03:57:08 PM »
The drop in support for the stimulus package is apparently coming entirely from Republicans  :lol:


Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #862 on: February 06, 2009, 04:09:32 PM »
http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43192


Quote
Cher: Republican Rule Almost ‘Killed Me’

Grammy award-winning singer and Academy award-winning actress Cher told CNSNews.com that living under Republican rule almost “killed" her, and she does not understand why anyone would want to be a Republican.

She also said that President Barack Obama’s “intelligence” and “spirit” are “so great” he will be able to do “more than anyone could possibly do.”

I just think he’s totally the right person at this time in our history," she said.

 :lol




Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #863 on: February 06, 2009, 04:13:06 PM »
Each sides have their idiots, but at least our idiots are legendary fag hags as opposed to cretins like Michelle Malkin and Joe the not Plumber.
yar

Eric P

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #864 on: February 06, 2009, 04:16:18 PM »
Each sides have their idiots, but at least our idiots are legendary fag hags as opposed to cretins like Michelle Malkin and Joe the not Plumber.

Not Joe the Not Plumber
Tonya

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #865 on: February 06, 2009, 04:54:07 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

And he's absolutely correct. The money that goes to pay the salary of each additional government job has to be taken out of the economy in the form of taxation. That is not wealth producing.

brawndolicious

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #866 on: February 06, 2009, 04:54:35 PM »
The drop in support for the stimulus package is apparently coming entirely from Republicans  :lol:
don't you just need a simple majority to pass it?

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #867 on: February 06, 2009, 04:55:24 PM »
The drop in support for the stimulus package is apparently coming entirely from Republicans  :lol:
don't you just need a simple majority to pass it?
that poll was public opinion not politicians lol

siamesedreamer

  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #868 on: February 06, 2009, 04:59:23 PM »
 :drudge  
Source may be illsuited for screaming crybabies
 :drudge

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/61626.html
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 05:05:45 PM by siamesedreamer »

brawndolicious

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #869 on: February 06, 2009, 05:05:24 PM »
that poll was public opinion not politicians lol
well that explains why there was 25% of two independants.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #870 on: February 06, 2009, 05:49:04 PM »
CNN says there's a tentative deal reached on a $780B package.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #871 on: February 06, 2009, 05:59:26 PM »
So nothing gets done until someone (Obama) caves or gets bribed? Franken as #59 would make this shit much easier.

010

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #872 on: February 06, 2009, 06:27:34 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

And he's absolutely correct. The money that goes to pay the salary of each additional government job has to be taken out of the economy in the form of taxation. That is not wealth producing.

If Republicans can advocate letting the rich keep more of their money as a way of creating wealth when pretty much most evidence shows that they just sock it away somewhere, then by gawd I can advocate taking that money and using it to employ people instead.  You know what people do with the money the govt. pays them?  Buy shit, including houses, land  businesses and other forms of, I guess you could call it WEALTH.
yar

Mandark

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You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
« Reply #873 on: February 06, 2009, 06:39:39 PM »
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

And he's absolutely correct. The money that goes to pay the salary of each additional government job has to be taken out of the economy in the form of taxation. That is not wealth producing.

Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

"But those customers are paying for a service or good.  That's different!"

Unlike taxpayers who don't use roads or benefit from police-enforced security.  Or breathe air.

There's a ton of empirical data to support public spending for growth purposes, especially for infrastructure and education.  As in every single successful modern economy has a significant public sector.  Even the ballyhooed capitalist success stories in Southeast Asia involved a ton of money spent on public schools and heavy government hand in the financial sector.


You guys ever stop and worry that there might be consequences from sprinting away from reality?  Real talk.

Beardo

  • Member
Re: You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
« Reply #874 on: February 06, 2009, 07:13:00 PM »
Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

But only because the customer can afford it. And never through force or threats (like taxes).


Quote
If Republicans can advocate letting the rich keep more of their money as a way of creating wealth when pretty much most evidence shows that they just sock it away somewhere, then by gawd I can advocate taking that money and using it to employ people instead.

What you are saying is that it is okay to take money from the people who create it and give it to people need it. Redistribution of wealth here we come.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 07:20:58 PM by Beardo »

Beardo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #875 on: February 06, 2009, 07:17:40 PM »
libertarians get to stop paying taxes but they can't use anything that taxes fund. 
???

What do libertarians have to do with anything?

Beardo

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Re: You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
« Reply #876 on: February 06, 2009, 07:19:54 PM »

There's a ton of empirical data to support public spending for growth purposes,

Empirical data like California.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #877 on: February 06, 2009, 07:36:13 PM »
Pay no mind to the Republicans.

Republicans are doing what most should have expected of them: drag their feet, offer wildly unrealistic alternatives, and then spend the remaining time pissing and moaning about the current leadership.  If a majority of them is not needed to pass the bill, then fuck them.  Fuck the supporters as well because most of them aren't going to bring shit to the table.
🍆🍆

Van Cruncheon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #878 on: February 06, 2009, 07:58:40 PM »
Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

But only because the customer can afford it. And never through force or threats (like taxes).

saying is that it is okay to take money from the people who create it and give it to people need it. Redistribution of wealth here we come.


car insurance isn't "coercion"? health insurance isn't "coercion"?

what about the act of creation gives you the right to something, anyhow? you're treading into philosophical waters well over your head, here.
duc

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #879 on: February 06, 2009, 08:50:12 PM »
next person who bemoans "redistribution of wealth" gets dick slapp'd
010

siamesedreamer

  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #880 on: February 06, 2009, 09:05:50 PM »
bububut COPS!

and EDUCATIONATORS!

Thank gawd for them especially. They were the only sector (besides healthcare) to add jobs. At that rate we'll be out of this thing in no time - like 30 years maybe. Hell, why don't we all become teachers? Y'all down? I hear the pensions are great (if you plan on retiring in the next 3 months before they all implode).

Yes We Can!

Van Cruncheon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #881 on: February 06, 2009, 09:14:17 PM »
sd self-annihilated
duc

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #882 on: February 06, 2009, 09:15:06 PM »
matt ryan must be in the hospital or something
010

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #883 on: February 06, 2009, 09:17:14 PM »
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=how_the_stimulus_screws_commuters

what a bunch of fucking morons.  civilization is doomed.
QED

Brehvolution

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #884 on: February 06, 2009, 09:19:21 PM »
No words SD.  :maf :nsfw
©ZH

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #885 on: February 06, 2009, 09:24:19 PM »
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

Let's start building the Colosseum now.



Van Cruncheon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #886 on: February 06, 2009, 09:26:21 PM »
only corporations could pay million dollar salaries and bonuses to socially-destructive failures

let's fuck and make bumper stickers together :interracial
duc

siamesedreamer

  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #887 on: February 06, 2009, 09:41:44 PM »
Some dude already said that everything taken out in the Senate will be stuffed back in in the House anyway. Take it that means this will be back to $900B next week. Be sure to thank your future unborn grandkids for all their generosity. Obama called on all of us to sacrifice. His political prowess defies generations. He's able to reach far into the future and take that which is needed now. Gotta try to patch the leaking credit bubble in any way possible. What an amazing president. First time I've ever really been proud of my country. Honestly.

Yes We Did!

(sry...messed it up the last post)

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #888 on: February 06, 2009, 09:43:31 PM »
Quote
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

well, looking at the wikipedia entry for Ford for example, their costs per employee per 3 years appear to be 175.178B / 245k * 3 = $2.14 million / job.
Microsoft = 42.74B / 89,809 * 3 = $1.43M/job

but carry on
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 09:48:18 PM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #889 on: February 06, 2009, 09:44:30 PM »
Some dude already said that everything taken out in the Senate will be stuffed back in in the House anyway. Take it that means this will be back to $900B next week. Be sure to thank your future unborn grandkids for all their generosity. Obama called on all of us to sacrifice. His political prowess defies generations. He's able to reach far into the future and take that which is needed now. Gotta try to patch the leaking credit bubble in any way possible. What an amazing president. First time I've ever really been proud of my country. Honestly.

Yes We Did!

(sry...messed it up the last post)

Wow...butthurt much?
püp

Van Cruncheon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #890 on: February 06, 2009, 09:46:30 PM »
can libertarians even HAVE children

someone call science on this one
duc

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #891 on: February 06, 2009, 09:48:10 PM »
Hopefully Obama learns a valuable lesson from this, and in the future will just either shut the GOP out of negotiations from the get go or not think that he can make an initial offer to them that's reasonable and then expect them to bitch and whine their way into something absolutely craptacular as a "compromise".  Seriously, 42% tax cuts?  The LEAST efficient way to immediately stimulate the economy is... wait for it... TAX CUTS.  Even hiring some poor schmucks to sod the lawn of the National Mall would do more for the economy than a comparable amount of tax cuts.

So hopefully Barry O will get the message that these people are essentially distinguished mentally-challenged dinosaurs that have their heads shoved up their own asses.
yar

Van Cruncheon

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #892 on: February 06, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »
poor people and their stupid spending habits! why can't they just save like the wealthy!
duc

TakingBackSunday

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #893 on: February 06, 2009, 09:55:59 PM »
Seriously SD, what the fuck, that was the most hyperbole-driven dreg I've read, even from you.  Cry moar.
püp

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #894 on: February 06, 2009, 09:56:49 PM »
Quote
While details are still incomplete, it appears the package, as initially brought to the Senate floor, will be scaled back by about $82 billion in spending reductions and $25 billion in tax cuts. In addition, tax cuts approved on the Senate floor this week for car and home purchases would be modified, and the total bill then would be in the range of $800 billion.

Lost in the process—or scaled back significantly— are some important Democratic initiatives and at least $47 billion in promised aid to the states. New Pell Grant funding is largely preserved, but $16 billion in school construction funds would be cut, and increases for popular programs like Head Start cut in half.

Obama’s own agenda is not immune. The deal would trim back new funds committed for expanding broadband access and improving the electrical grid as well as investments in health information technology.

Specter’s role is striking since he is a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, which helped write the bill. On the floor this week, Democrats like Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin helped him secure increased funding for the National Institutes of Health—a Specter priority. Yet in the talks, it appears that $5.8 billion in public health funds for the treatment of preventable diseases—a Harkin priority— would be severely cut or even wiped out.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18508.html

Seems like the stuff that was cut could wind up in a more specific bill down the line right? Like improving the electric grid
010

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #895 on: February 06, 2009, 09:59:15 PM »
What was his plan regarding the electric grid?
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ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #896 on: February 06, 2009, 10:02:30 PM »
Quote
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

well, looking at the wikipedia entry for Ford for example, their costs per employee per 3 years appear to be 175.178B / 245k * 3 = $2.14 million / job.
Microsoft = 42.74B / 89,809 * 3 = $1.43M/job

but carry on

I have no idea how you are deriving that number.

Well, very clever to cherry pick one of the most overpaid, unskilled professions in America. Let's try to be more disingenuous next time.



That number factors in every aspect of employee compensation. So a 3 year total would be more like 450k.



siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #897 on: February 06, 2009, 10:05:58 PM »
Yep...couldn't figure out how he got those numbers either.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #898 on: February 06, 2009, 10:08:20 PM »
uh, I showed you my work!  Total expenses ( = revenue - net income) / number of employees = cost per employee.  Which is not the same thing as compensation.

Quote
Well, very clever to cherry pick one of the most overpaid, unskilled professions in America. Let's try to be more disingenuous next time.

I'm just picking random companies that pop into my head.
Procter & Gamble = $1.55M
ok, Walmart is only $558k
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 10:12:32 PM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

siamesedreamer

  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #899 on: February 06, 2009, 10:13:30 PM »